@Elanorwen - If your 'cremate in 6 meld ticks' is the incinerate spam -refresh power-incinerate-cremate trick, it's easily avoidable. Just like your 'dysbaricpressure is super doable with my clot illusion' is easily avoidable. You can't sit here and justify the use of an easily dodged gimmick as justification to this being balanced.
I've also been a druid and a mage and am pretty familiar with the mechanics.
Yes, I called it an easy button. Just wait until you guys get your fight with numbers and push the mana drain in groups. Get upset about it if you like, but as you've already have been really open about the fact that you can't be bothered to try and kill anyone with anything other than your cheese sleeplock gimmick and say that 'metawake shuts down a complete skillset' rather than just a single tactic, I'm really just calling a spade a spade.
Huhwhat.... since when am I cheese sleeplocking people? That's a new one on me. Just because someone else in my organization has certain views on things doesn't mean I share them or even agree with them. Technically speaking, any gimmick is easily avoidable in 1:1 situations. This TK getting your vessels up? Step away for a couple of sips, watch them flail at trying to get back in the fight. Or heck, even more entertaining... psi barrier. Gone are the days when you could psi shatter before your TK combos with no balance loss. And even if you could, there's still balance loss on psi shatter which will kill any vessel momentum you have managed to achieve.
Yes, in group fights it might be strong... but it'll be strong on one target because of the meld tic and the 20% drain on it. @Siam is running a report to nerf double haegl spam. News flash, I'm all for it because I feel that double haegl is too strong even though 1:1 you won't be getting anyone in danger zones manawise with it alone. You're all also assuming that an opponent is not trying to hinder at all. Congratulations, there's a mana kill on a class that makes a primary target... i.e. mage... if your group is not focusing the mage down, you've either neutralized the meld with your own melders... i.e. this kill method is no longer an option for the mage because it's the wrong terrain and the 20% meld drain isn't affecting you because it's not the aero meld anymore... or you're doing it wrong. A runist mage will pressure your mana with haegls, sure... a TP mage will need to rely heavily on their meld effect + mental affs + claws... where a simple love potion/lust tarot will kill their momentum completely.... same applies to any mage, really... because fused haegls hit off enemy list, not off a target... and aero meld has a healing tic for your allies/lusted targets which will be countering some of the drain.
Again, it will be strong in group fights up to a point. What isn't? Next thing you'll be telling me omen + sensitivity + 6 heavy hitters on one target isn't strong in group fights. Or maybe crucify/immediate ecto? Or perhaps two illum stacking their ents with sluggishness+transfix+active ecto/ropes isn't? Please.
Being a primary target is not a mechanic, it has no place in a discussion on mechanics balance. Lust does not "kill momentum completely." If you can't approach a discussion on balance without constantly deflecting to to other issues or perceived issues or justifying things with complaints about unrelated guilds you happen to not like at the time, that's a problem. I just don't understand this filter you look at combat through, it's completely strange to me and I don't think breaking things down like I've had to do regarding mana kills has done anything to help you understand. You are not the first person to deal with hindering, or shields, or chasing, and constantly bringing them up as a means to discount every issue someone brings up, as if every successfully PKer hasn't had to learn how to handle them too and still be successful, isn't constructive. Every BT druid from me to Krellan, to the Narsrim alt, to Vadi, to Sidd, and beyond have dealt with these things, and many of us did so successfully...with runes.
The only thing I'm going to dig in to at this point is that if you supported it, you should put it up instead of relying on other guilds who have no stake in the runes game do it for you. It's not like SDs don't have their own agendas and things they'd like to do for their own skills and members. You're an envoy, you volunteered for the spot, you put up the report for aeros. This is your responsibility.
Man, no one is interested in having to work for things, they all want their easy button kills.
Here is my comment that started all of this. Where do I mention one skillset?
Again, nice try
The weakest argument in all of arguments, since for the past month you've been carrying on about report 1313 being an easy button kill, and as soon as it's implemented you speak on Tweets about it. Are you drunk, or trolling, or what?
What? I've very pointedly been refering to easy buttons and how -you- among others want them. This opening post is referencing that general sentiment, of which 1313 is included in, but not the sole reason for my lament. You can't just decide what I meant when I posted and then try to point out fallacies based off some perceived meaning not explicitly stated in my posts. You made specific posts regarding 1313 that I responded to, but the general statement has been the same from the getgo.
Lack of Rants clan to absolutely tear each other apart in realtime. Approved.
Siam Star-eyes, King of the Night (Male Tenebrous Demigod). His age is obscured from perception. He is ranked 34th in Lusternia. He is the clan head of the clan called 'Lack of Rants.'
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
@Elanorwen - If your 'cremate in 6 meld ticks' is the incinerate spam -refresh power-incinerate-cremate trick, it's easily avoidable. Just like your 'dysbaricpressure is super doable with my clot illusion' is easily avoidable. You can't sit here and justify the use of an easily dodged gimmick as justification to this being balanced.
I've also been a druid and a mage and am pretty familiar with the mechanics.
Yes, I called it an easy button. Just wait until you guys get your fight with numbers and push the mana drain in groups. Get upset about it if you like, but as you've already have been really open about the fact that you can't be bothered to try and kill anyone with anything other than your cheese sleeplock gimmick and say that 'metawake shuts down a complete skillset' rather than just a single tactic, I'm really just calling a spade a spade.
Huhwhat.... since when am I cheese sleeplocking people? That's a new one on me. Just because someone else in my organization has certain views on things doesn't mean I share them or even agree with them. Technically speaking, any gimmick is easily avoidable in 1:1 situations. This TK getting your vessels up? Step away for a couple of sips, watch them flail at trying to get back in the fight. Or heck, even more entertaining... psi barrier. Gone are the days when you could psi shatter before your TK combos with no balance loss. And even if you could, there's still balance loss on psi shatter which will kill any vessel momentum you have managed to achieve.
Yes, in group fights it might be strong... but it'll be strong on one target because of the meld tic and the 20% drain on it. @Siam is running a report to nerf double haegl spam. News flash, I'm all for it because I feel that double haegl is too strong even though 1:1 you won't be getting anyone in danger zones manawise with it alone. You're all also assuming that an opponent is not trying to hinder at all. Congratulations, there's a mana kill on a class that makes a primary target... i.e. mage... if your group is not focusing the mage down, you've either neutralized the meld with your own melders... i.e. this kill method is no longer an option for the mage because it's the wrong terrain and the 20% meld drain isn't affecting you because it's not the aero meld anymore... or you're doing it wrong. A runist mage will pressure your mana with haegls, sure... a TP mage will need to rely heavily on their meld effect + mental affs + claws... where a simple love potion/lust tarot will kill their momentum completely.... same applies to any mage, really... because fused haegls hit off enemy list, not off a target... and aero meld has a healing tic for your allies/lusted targets which will be countering some of the drain.
Again, it will be strong in group fights up to a point. What isn't? Next thing you'll be telling me omen + sensitivity + 6 heavy hitters on one target isn't strong in group fights. Or maybe crucify/immediate ecto? Or perhaps two illum stacking their ents with sluggishness+transfix+active ecto/ropes isn't? Please.
Being a primary target is not a mechanic, it has no place in a discussion on mechanics balance. Lust does not "kill momentum completely." If you can't approach a discussion on balance without constantly deflecting to to other issues or perceived issues or justifying things with complaints about unrelated guilds you happen to not like at the time, that's a problem. I just don't understand this filter you look at combat through, it's completely strange to me and I don't think breaking things down like I've had to do regarding mana kills has done anything to help you understand. You are not the first person to deal with hindering, or shields, or chasing, and constantly bringing them up as a means to discount every issue someone brings up, as if every successfully PKer hasn't had to learn how to handle them too and still be successful, isn't constructive. Every BT druid from me to Krellan, to the Narsrim alt, to Vadi, to Sidd, and beyond have dealt with these things, and many of us did so successfully...with runes.
The only thing I'm going to dig in to at this point is that if you supported it, you should put it up instead of relying on other guilds who have no stake in the runes game do it for you. It's not like SDs don't have their own agendas and things they'd like to do for their own skills and members. You're an envoy, you volunteered for the spot, you put up the report for aeros. This is your responsibility.
It is my responsibility to nerf something if I perceive it as an issue. I'm also not the only envoy in a guild that has access to runes, but no-one else is bringing double haegl up at all... or the super modifier on woodchem weapons, everyone else is quite content with mag/pyrocannon blasting people with double haegl in one go and thinking they're good. I brought the whole thing up more than once on envoys and was repeatedly told that it is a non-issue by the other mage/druid envoys... with the notable exception of @Enyalida. Now, suddenly, it is. I can only think it's because Elanorwen has a mana kill.
Dealing with hinder is part of what makes a kill more or less viable. Your argument is group situations where I will supposedly be pressuring mana more. Technically, no. I will only be pressuring mana more on a single target that is getting mental afflictions stacked on them. The 8% drain Northwind now has was a meld effect in aeromancy before, namely miasma, which was a direct 8% mana drain that did absolutely nothing for the guild or the organization as a whole. Its existence is what brought on the new version of Northwind with scaling drain based on mental affs and the mana kill. We lost a meld effect in the process that was giving some herbs pressure and extra hinder on enemies, making it harder to cure pierced limbs as it was on the same balance.
It is my responsibility to fix issues as I see them happen. I also can't unilaterally change mechanics that affect more than just my guild - see: double haegl which works the same for all mage and druid guilds. If this new kill method turns out to be such a massive imbalancing mechanic, I'll push for it to be nerfed even without waiting for an envoy report cycle. That said, I'm not the only one that is looking to improve his or her guild either, if what I've seen in some of the current and past reports is anything to go by. Did I overbuff it? Hell, the skill's been out for a day and nobody has been killed by it outside the arena yet... we had 6 mana drainers with mana kills last night and didn't kill anyone... be it with miasma or absolve/toad... so sure, it's clearly such a big issue that nobody died to it... maybe I should go screaming for it to be buffed seeing how my 'easy kill' button obviously isn't working... or for a refund on this I.W.I.N. button I got here... oh wait, those are both in the imaginations of two people who seem intent to scream down the toy that another player got. Well, congrats... shoulda bothered your org's envoys to push harder against it, or... novel idea... offer an alternate solution that's more viable than "Gib another, harder ego kill to a class that can't pull off their first one". Complaining when the report passes both envoy and admin approval only goes to show that you want the mana kill toy taken away from someone.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Did you seriously just backtrack and say that double haegl needs nerfed, but now you're not going to?
I don't think a double-haegl nerf is going to really fix things. I've not commented one way or the other on it during this discussion, but the fact that you've said it's a problem and now won't envoy it because you're benefitting is hilarious.
When your character tries to be nice to everyone in your new home and everyone seems to be nice back...and then you suddenly find a bunch of daggers stuck in your back, and you don't know who did it, or even why...
I'm sorry, please take this with the light-hearted grain of salt it's meant to include, since it is Magnagora, the city patroned by Traitors:
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Labeled Traitors because they're on the wrong side of history. Just saying
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
5
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Labeled Traitors because they're on the wrong side of history. Just saying
LET ME FORUM RP SHADDUS.
:P
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Labeled Traitors because they're on the wrong side of history. Just saying
LET ME FORUM RP SHADDUS.
:P
I AM TOO
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
@Elanorwen - If your 'cremate in 6 meld ticks' is the incinerate spam -refresh power-incinerate-cremate trick, it's easily avoidable. Just like your 'dysbaricpressure is super doable with my clot illusion' is easily avoidable. You can't sit here and justify the use of an easily dodged gimmick as justification to this being balanced.
I've also been a druid and a mage and am pretty familiar with the mechanics.
Yes, I called it an easy button. Just wait until you guys get your fight with numbers and push the mana drain in groups. Get upset about it if you like, but as you've already have been really open about the fact that you can't be bothered to try and kill anyone with anything other than your cheese sleeplock gimmick and say that 'metawake shuts down a complete skillset' rather than just a single tactic, I'm really just calling a spade a spade.
Huhwhat.... since when am I cheese sleeplocking people? That's a new one on me. Just because someone else in my organization has certain views on things doesn't mean I share them or even agree with them. Technically speaking, any gimmick is easily avoidable in 1:1 situations. This TK getting your vessels up? Step away for a couple of sips, watch them flail at trying to get back in the fight. Or heck, even more entertaining... psi barrier. Gone are the days when you could psi shatter before your TK combos with no balance loss. And even if you could, there's still balance loss on psi shatter which will kill any vessel momentum you have managed to achieve.
Yes, in group fights it might be strong... but it'll be strong on one target because of the meld tic and the 20% drain on it. @Siam is running a report to nerf double haegl spam. News flash, I'm all for it because I feel that double haegl is too strong even though 1:1 you won't be getting anyone in danger zones manawise with it alone. You're all also assuming that an opponent is not trying to hinder at all. Congratulations, there's a mana kill on a class that makes a primary target... i.e. mage... if your group is not focusing the mage down, you've either neutralized the meld with your own melders... i.e. this kill method is no longer an option for the mage because it's the wrong terrain and the 20% meld drain isn't affecting you because it's not the aero meld anymore... or you're doing it wrong. A runist mage will pressure your mana with haegls, sure... a TP mage will need to rely heavily on their meld effect + mental affs + claws... where a simple love potion/lust tarot will kill their momentum completely.... same applies to any mage, really... because fused haegls hit off enemy list, not off a target... and aero meld has a healing tic for your allies/lusted targets which will be countering some of the drain.
Again, it will be strong in group fights up to a point. What isn't? Next thing you'll be telling me omen + sensitivity + 6 heavy hitters on one target isn't strong in group fights. Or maybe crucify/immediate ecto? Or perhaps two illum stacking their ents with sluggishness+transfix+active ecto/ropes isn't? Please.
Being a primary target is not a mechanic, it has no place in a discussion on mechanics balance. Lust does not "kill momentum completely." If you can't approach a discussion on balance without constantly deflecting to to other issues or perceived issues or justifying things with complaints about unrelated guilds you happen to not like at the time, that's a problem. I just don't understand this filter you look at combat through, it's completely strange to me and I don't think breaking things down like I've had to do regarding mana kills has done anything to help you understand. You are not the first person to deal with hindering, or shields, or chasing, and constantly bringing them up as a means to discount every issue someone brings up, as if every successfully PKer hasn't had to learn how to handle them too and still be successful, isn't constructive. Every BT druid from me to Krellan, to the Narsrim alt, to Vadi, to Sidd, and beyond have dealt with these things, and many of us did so successfully...with runes.
The only thing I'm going to dig in to at this point is that if you supported it, you should put it up instead of relying on other guilds who have no stake in the runes game do it for you. It's not like SDs don't have their own agendas and things they'd like to do for their own skills and members. You're an envoy, you volunteered for the spot, you put up the report for aeros. This is your responsibility.
It is my responsibility to nerf something if I perceive it as an issue. I'm also not the only envoy in a guild that has access to runes, but no-one else is bringing double haegl up at all... or the super modifier on woodchem weapons, everyone else is quite content with mag/pyrocannon blasting people with double haegl in one go and thinking they're good. I brought the whole thing up more than once on envoys and was repeatedly told that it is a non-issue by the other mage/druid envoys... with the notable exception of @Enyalida. Now, suddenly, it is. I can only think it's because Elanorwen has a mana kill.
Dealing with hinder is part of what makes a kill more or less viable. Your argument is group situations where I will supposedly be pressuring mana more. Technically, no. I will only be pressuring mana more on a single target that is getting mental afflictions stacked on them. The 8% drain Northwind now has was a meld effect in aeromancy before, namely miasma, which was a direct 8% mana drain that did absolutely nothing for the guild or the organization as a whole. Its existence is what brought on the new version of Northwind with scaling drain based on mental affs and the mana kill. We lost a meld effect in the process that was giving some herbs pressure and extra hinder on enemies, making it harder to cure pierced limbs as it was on the same balance.
It is my responsibility to fix issues as I see them happen. I also can't unilaterally change mechanics that affect more than just my guild - see: double haegl which works the same for all mage and druid guilds. If this new kill method turns out to be such a massive imbalancing mechanic, I'll push for it to be nerfed even without waiting for an envoy report cycle. That said, I'm not the only one that is looking to improve his or her guild either, if what I've seen in some of the current and past reports is anything to go by. Did I overbuff it? Hell, the skill's been out for a day and nobody has been killed by it outside the arena yet... we had 6 mana drainers with mana kills last night and didn't kill anyone... be it with miasma or absolve/toad... so sure, it's clearly such a big issue that nobody died to it... maybe I should go screaming for it to be buffed seeing how my 'easy kill' button obviously isn't working... or for a refund on this I.W.I.N. button I got here... oh wait, those are both in the imaginations of two people who seem intent to scream down the toy that another player got. Well, congrats... shoulda bothered your org's envoys to push harder against it, or... novel idea... offer an alternate solution that's more viable than "Gib another, harder ego kill to a class that can't pull off their first one". Complaining when the report passes both envoy and admin approval only goes to show that you want the mana kill toy taken away from someone.
Not a single thing I've said has had anything to do with "screaming" about another player's "toy." I don't care what toys you have as long as you do the job you agreed to do with some degree of integrity and responsibility, and if you want to carry on with this silly "it's just because of me," we can take it to the arena and I can show you it has nothing to do with this idea that you think I perceive you and your "toys," as some sort of threat to how I play, and that my motivation is just a unreasonable and selfish act of preservation or an attempt to spite you for mysterious reason. No more than my issue with pollute has anything to do with Munsia.
The less nice version is you aren't that good, you're not that scary. It's not an insult, you just aren't. No one is concerned that you, specifically, have access to a potential problem. That is why I outlined an apples to apples comparison for you, and give you some insight into how the nuances of mana kills work. The issue is that it's a problem, and it should be addressed by your own admission. Whether you choose to own your own words at this point is your decision, but you said it.
You need to have a seat and stop with this victim complex.
Did you seriously just backtrack and say that double haegl needs nerfed, but now you're not going to?
I don't think a double-haegl nerf is going to really fix things. I've not commented one way or the other on it during this discussion, but the fact that you've said it's a problem and now won't envoy it because you're benefitting is hilarious.
It is being envoyed already. Why should I double up on an envoy report? I have already commented on the report and stated my opinion. It clearly supports removing the ability to double haegl. Where exactly did I say that I'm not going to nerf it?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
repeatedly told that it is a non-issue by the other mage/druid envoys... with the notable exception of Enyalida.
Please provide timestamped quotes of me saying such a thing.
Being that I don't log everything that happens on Lusternia... or even most anything that happens on Lusternia... good luck. Maybe you haven't pointed this out yourself, but then again you tend to be the exact opposite of a productive conversationalist on envoys more often than not. Next time I decide to envoy something, I'll just hunt you down in RL, tie you up to a chair and tickle you until you tell me your opinion, shall I?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
repeatedly told that it is a non-issue by the other mage/druid envoys... with the notable exception of Enyalida.
Please provide timestamped quotes of me saying such a thing.
Being that I don't log everything that happens on Lusternia... or even most anything that happens on Lusternia... good luck. Maybe you haven't pointed this out yourself, but then again you tend to be the exact opposite of a productive conversationalist on envoys more often than not. Next time I decide to envoy something, I'll just hunt you down in RL, tie you up to a chair and tickle you until you tell me your opinion, shall I?
I think his point is that you shouldn't be implying you had the blessing of all the mage/druid envoys save Enyalida.
repeatedly told that it is a non-issue by the other mage/druid envoys... with the notable exception of Enyalida.
Please provide timestamped quotes of me saying such a thing.
Being that I don't log everything that happens on Lusternia... or even most anything that happens on Lusternia... good luck. Maybe you haven't pointed this out yourself, but then again you tend to be the exact opposite of a productive conversationalist on envoys more often than not. Next time I decide to envoy something, I'll just hunt you down in RL, tie you up to a chair and tickle you until you tell me your opinion, shall I?
Most of the time it's just noise. I prefer to do things in more private conversations, just ask @Viynain, @Ieptix, @Synkarin, @Enyalida, @Rivius, @Usharra and many others. If I feel like having a serious conversation, I'll approach someone personally and we'll talk things out. Celina got my point, which should be more obvious by my regular and constant stating of my wish to see the woodchems gone or reworked.
In other news, behold my progress with my GUI! Still has a long way to go, though. But I feel proud for putting this together.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Comments
His age is obscured from perception.
He is ranked 34th in Lusternia.
He is the clan head of the clan called 'Lack of Rants.'
Dealing with hinder is part of what makes a kill more or less viable. Your argument is group situations where I will supposedly be pressuring mana more. Technically, no. I will only be pressuring mana more on a single target that is getting mental afflictions stacked on them. The 8% drain Northwind now has was a meld effect in aeromancy before, namely miasma, which was a direct 8% mana drain that did absolutely nothing for the guild or the organization as a whole. Its existence is what brought on the new version of Northwind with scaling drain based on mental affs and the mana kill. We lost a meld effect in the process that was giving some herbs pressure and extra hinder on enemies, making it harder to cure pierced limbs as it was on the same balance.
It is my responsibility to fix issues as I see them happen. I also can't unilaterally change mechanics that affect more than just my guild - see: double haegl which works the same for all mage and druid guilds. If this new kill method turns out to be such a massive imbalancing mechanic, I'll push for it to be nerfed even without waiting for an envoy report cycle. That said, I'm not the only one that is looking to improve his or her guild either, if what I've seen in some of the current and past reports is anything to go by. Did I overbuff it? Hell, the skill's been out for a day and nobody has been killed by it outside the arena yet... we had 6 mana drainers with mana kills last night and didn't kill anyone... be it with miasma or absolve/toad... so sure, it's clearly such a big issue that nobody died to it... maybe I should go screaming for it to be buffed seeing how my 'easy kill' button obviously isn't working... or for a refund on this I.W.I.N. button I got here... oh wait, those are both in the imaginations of two people who seem intent to scream down the toy that another player got. Well, congrats... shoulda bothered your org's envoys to push harder against it, or... novel idea... offer an alternate solution that's more viable than "Gib another, harder ego kill to a class that can't pull off their first one". Complaining when the report passes both envoy and admin approval only goes to show that you want the mana kill toy taken away from someone.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
:P
Signature!
It still has kinks but I'll figure it out next time I rage-code.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
-
Signature!
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
So apparently, it's overestimating me.
Also my only GUI is the mudlet map and chat capture. Not sure if that's weird or not.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Signature!