Where are people getting the 2 passive mana drains from. It's just 1 mana drain, Northwind.
Also note that focus mind is going away. I turned my focus mind curing off in a spar with Elanorwen; she couldn't get me in a kill condition on her own.
EDIT: We can get some logs up for you guys to look at if that'd quell some of the pitchforks.
Where are people getting the 2 passive mana drains from. It's just 1 mana drain, Northwind.
Also note that focus mind is going away. I turned my focus mind curing off in a spar with Elanorwen; she couldn't get me in a kill condition on her own.
EDIT: We can get some logs up for you guys to look at if that'd quell some of the pitchforks.
Not to be insulting, though it may come across that way, Elanorwen doesn't understand how to pressure mana as evidenced by her remarks about how she would drain mana in this scenario. It's somewhat counter intuitive, but mana kill conditions in solo PK revolve around being able to track both health and mana levels and adjusting tactics accordingly, and living awareness of how the target has their sip/scroll/sparkle priorities and thresholds set up. My old system (which I lost when my harddrive went out ) had a built in tracking that would tell me what they were most likely sipping between assessing. I, for example, actually do more health attacks than mana drains. If I'm being entirely honest based on my PK experience with Elanorwen, I don't think she's capable of that which may be because she's just never had to do it as an Aero, which is understandable. Same reason I can't tell you how Shuyin gets an illuminate off the top of my head. Then again, she is making the argument that she can't just spam haegl and win so it's fine, so maybe things like that just don't give me a lot of faith in your testing methods.
That being said, start a thread and post some logs. I don't think either of you are showing any particular interest in a fair, non partisan discussion about how to fix your boo-boo (or maybe their is some caring hidden beneath the "pitchfork" and "tantrum" rhetoric)
Dunno, it's not as strong as people think it is. If you're throwing claws on someone, you've just dumped 3p on them... three double-haegls later, they're at over 40% mana and you're at the point where you're entering the territory of... either I keep spamming double haegl with no way to capitalize on it or I lose any kind of headway I've made on them. Seems pretty balanced to me. You either approach the whole thing a bit more cleverly or you can forget about killing anyone with it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I can cremate pretty much anyone 1:1 as a pyro in meld in all of six balances. True, it's a one-shot kill and you won't be repeating it soon, but it can happen. I'm amused that so many people are complaining about an instant kill that hasn't even been tested in either group or solo situations as yet. But no, someone picked up our mana kill toy and we will throw tantrums about it until it's nerfed? Please. Admins have clearly stated that if numbers are a bit too much, it will get nerfed on their end... although I'm not seeing it myself. If someone doesn't have curing, sure, they'll get screwed by it... but since when have we been balancing on the person that walks into a fight without a single curing trigger again? Let's delete all guilds/skillsets/races and let everyone PvP with kick/punch. It will certainly be balanced then.
EDIT: Heck, to address the issue with someone not having curing, I can actually just as easily bring up dysbaric pressure and point out how I can kill anyone that doesn't know how to cure cloudcoils by just having them sit in my meld and then walk in and cast dysbaric pressure on them. It's happened before... I throw my tk diagnose combo on someone, see they have 5+ cloud coils, just dysbaric and move on to the next target.
Okay first, your hyperbole about kicking, punching, and no curing is noted and this is my face:
Secondly, I don't know if you are intentionally not looking at PK in a realistic context or if you think PK is putting double haegl on repeat and calling it balanced because no one died to it. Both are pretty ridiculous approaches to balance.
I am telling you, as a former Blacktalon runist who predominantly focused on swoop kills with haegl, that it is fairly easy to get someone to 25% with double haegl and fused haegl, and I did it without claws, mental afflictions to force focus mind, and 2 passive mana drains from a demesne. I did it against very competent PKers, and it was not overly difficult. In group scenarios, where all you literally have to do is spam double haegl, it was even easier. I'm still a mana kill class, and it's becoming apparent to me that you don't really grasp the concepts surrounding mana kill strategies, it's not just smash your drain button and call it a day, and not being able to do that does not mean your skill is a-ok. The entire point is that BTs, who had less tools available to them, could reasonably accomplish this kill scenario and you thought it appropriate to give yourself a beefed up version of it.
Instead of taking this input for what it is, feedback from an uninvolved party who has an apples to apples comparison grounded in legitimate PK experience with a nearly identical mechanic, you take the position of criticizing people who are theory crafting while simultaneously making a point that it's fair because you have some theory crafted idea about pyromancers we should all take seriously. The irony and hypocrisy of that conflict in your own post is just overwhelming.
You need to take a step back, get some perspective, and not act like you know it all. Do you know why I don't get involved in illuminati debates? Because I don't have any hands on experience with the class. Do you know why I am giving you this feedback on a mana kill? Because between SD, Harbinger, and Blacktalon, I have played mana kill classes for the past 5 years. If that's a "tantrum," to you, I'm okay with that. I'm just going to call it feedback and experience.
I'm still failing to see how a 5p single balance attack is a beefed up version of a 0p single balance attack that. I'm also rather failing to see where your two meld tics that drain mana happen. I'm definitely not going to comment on how if you're stacking the drains off the haegls, you're obviously not capitalizing on the meld drain effect which requires mental afflictions to accomplish anything but be a nuisance. I guess I can epilepsy off beast + two mental aff runes on the meld tic to capitalize on the 20% drain... but again, I'm draining 20% mana for 1p and it's happening once ever 10s... if you are dying to just that, then there's a problem with your curing, not with my skill. Claws also isn't as big a drain as people seem to think it is. The only way claws will pressure someone's mana is if you manage to also stack vessels on them, which is very much a hit and miss thing... but at that point, you're not doing double haegl or stacking mental affs on anyone as TK doesn't have that option.
Your feedback is noted, but I don't see it as an issue myself. I'm also rather amused at the fact that it seems it's just you (not a mage), @Synkarin (Not a mage) and @Silvanus (Again, not a mage) spotting this monumental problematic issue. I'll take @Shuyin's comment on this particular one over either of yours and he supported this kill method. Beyond that, if it proves to be as big a problem as you all seem to think it is (I'm betting it won't), then we'll discuss it and suggest a nerf.
As to my 'theorycrafted' idea about pyromancers... it's not theorycrafted at all. It was done and tested, and more than one person achieved the same result with the same abilities. I don't claim to know it all, but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with my aeromancy skills and know how much pressure to mana I can apply with them.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I've put together a report this month addressing double haegl. Relax, guys. Let's try not to get tweets closed.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
That being said, start a thread and post some logs. I don't think either of you are showing any particular interest in a fair, non partisan discussion about how to fix your boo-boo (or maybe their is some caring hidden beneath the "pitchfork" and "tantrum" rhetoric)
It's hard to not get riled when certain people slap the "easy button" label on it. I am genuinely desiring a manakill for Hallifax (I don't care if it gets put in freaking SENTINELS), because it's had it (it being mana drain) -everywhere- and not had a proper outlet for it. All it ever did was enable other orgs for their mana kills, which makes me feel like Hallifax is eternally in the "support others" seat instead of taking their own initiative.
I can agree that Elanorwen didn't seem to be trying particularly hard to properly mana drain. She probably needs practice, yes. But it's pretty frustrating to see everyone theorycraft over our heads -after the fact- instead of properly garnering support during the envoy stage to get it shut down, and it's annoying to get so much angst when it hasn't even seen the light of day in combat yet. To a proper extent, anyway.
When your character tries to be nice to everyone in your new home and everyone seems to be nice back...and then you suddenly find a bunch of daggers stuck in your back, and you don't know who did it, or even why...
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited March 2015
edit: Blegh
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Dunno, it's not as strong as people think it is. If you're throwing claws on someone, you've just dumped 3p on them... three double-haegls later, they're at over 40% mana and you're at the point where you're entering the territory of... either I keep spamming double haegl with no way to capitalize on it or I lose any kind of headway I've made on them. Seems pretty balanced to me. You either approach the whole thing a bit more cleverly or you can forget about killing anyone with it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I can cremate pretty much anyone 1:1 as a pyro in meld in all of six balances. True, it's a one-shot kill and you won't be repeating it soon, but it can happen. I'm amused that so many people are complaining about an instant kill that hasn't even been tested in either group or solo situations as yet. But no, someone picked up our mana kill toy and we will throw tantrums about it until it's nerfed? Please. Admins have clearly stated that if numbers are a bit too much, it will get nerfed on their end... although I'm not seeing it myself. If someone doesn't have curing, sure, they'll get screwed by it... but since when have we been balancing on the person that walks into a fight without a single curing trigger again? Let's delete all guilds/skillsets/races and let everyone PvP with kick/punch. It will certainly be balanced then.
EDIT: Heck, to address the issue with someone not having curing, I can actually just as easily bring up dysbaric pressure and point out how I can kill anyone that doesn't know how to cure cloudcoils by just having them sit in my meld and then walk in and cast dysbaric pressure on them. It's happened before... I throw my tk diagnose combo on someone, see they have 5+ cloud coils, just dysbaric and move on to the next target.
Okay first, your hyperbole about kicking, punching, and no curing is noted and this is my face:
Secondly, I don't know if you are intentionally not looking at PK in a realistic context or if you think PK is putting double haegl on repeat and calling it balanced because no one died to it. Both are pretty ridiculous approaches to balance.
I am telling you, as a former Blacktalon runist who predominantly focused on swoop kills with haegl, that it is fairly easy to get someone to 25% with double haegl and fused haegl, and I did it without claws, mental afflictions to force focus mind, and 2 passive mana drains from a demesne. I did it against very competent PKers, and it was not overly difficult. In group scenarios, where all you literally have to do is spam double haegl, it was even easier. I'm still a mana kill class, and it's becoming apparent to me that you don't really grasp the concepts surrounding mana kill strategies, it's not just smash your drain button and call it a day, and not being able to do that does not mean your skill is a-ok. The entire point is that BTs, who had less tools available to them, could reasonably accomplish this kill scenario and you thought it appropriate to give yourself a beefed up version of it.
Instead of taking this input for what it is, feedback from an uninvolved party who has an apples to apples comparison grounded in legitimate PK experience with a nearly identical mechanic, you take the position of criticizing people who are theory crafting while simultaneously making a point that it's fair because you have some theory crafted idea about pyromancers we should all take seriously. The irony and hypocrisy of that conflict in your own post is just overwhelming.
You need to take a step back, get some perspective, and not act like you know it all. Do you know why I don't get involved in illuminati debates? Because I don't have any hands on experience with the class. Do you know why I am giving you this feedback on a mana kill? Because between SD, Harbinger, and Blacktalon, I have played mana kill classes for the past 5 years. If that's a "tantrum," to you, I'm okay with that. I'm just going to call it feedback and experience.
I'm still failing to see how a 5p single balance attack is a beefed up version of a 0p single balance attack that. I'm also rather failing to see where your two meld tics that drain mana happen. I'm definitely not going to comment on how if you're stacking the drains off the haegls, you're obviously not capitalizing on the meld drain effect which requires mental afflictions to accomplish anything but be a nuisance. I guess I can epilepsy off beast + two mental aff runes on the meld tic to capitalize on the 20% drain... but again, I'm draining 20% mana for 1p and it's happening once ever 10s... if you are dying to just that, then there's a problem with your curing, not with my skill. Claws also isn't as big a drain as people seem to think it is. The only way claws will pressure someone's mana is if you manage to also stack vessels on them, which is very much a hit and miss thing... but at that point, you're not doing double haegl or stacking mental affs on anyone as TK doesn't have that option.
Your feedback is noted, but I don't see it as an issue myself. I'm also rather amused at the fact that it seems it's just you (not a mage), @Synkarin (Not a mage) and @Silvanus (Again, not a mage) spotting this monumental problematic issue. I'll take @Shuyin's comment on this particular one over either of yours and he supported this kill method. Beyond that, if it proves to be as big a problem as you all seem to think it is (I'm betting it won't), then we'll discuss it and suggest a nerf.
As to my 'theorycrafted' idea about pyromancers... it's not theorycrafted at all. It was done and tested, and more than one person achieved the same result with the same abilities. I don't claim to know it all, but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with my aeromancy skills and know how much pressure to mana I can apply with them.
Claws causes enough bleeding to force clots that counteract the gains from sparkle/scroll partially, if not entirely. Claws is actually pretty good bleeding, I referenced it when I was doing some research to envoy redcaps. No one dies to redcap/barghest yet they are integral parts of my mana draining capabilities because of this. When you have abilities that force people to play defensive or switch sipping priorities because sparkle/scroll can't keep up, that is literally the definition of pressuring mana.
The way you argue about combat balance has understanding of flexibility and adaptation. You are very black and white, all or nothing. You can't spam haegl to win, so it's fine. Your meld won't be draining the full 20% every tic so it's fine. You can't die to claws, so it's fine. It's just....ugh.
When your character tries to be nice to everyone in your new home and everyone seems to be nice back...and then you suddenly find a bunch of daggers stuck in your back, and you don't know who did it, or even why...
The only way to survive in the politicing that is Lusternia social interactions is to keep in mind a few simple pointers.
Trust no one. Expect nothing. Know that there's no such thing as friendship.
Only then will you be safe from the inevitable betrayals.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Dunno, it's not as strong as people think it is. If you're throwing claws on someone, you've just dumped 3p on them... three double-haegls later, they're at over 40% mana and you're at the point where you're entering the territory of... either I keep spamming double haegl with no way to capitalize on it or I lose any kind of headway I've made on them. Seems pretty balanced to me. You either approach the whole thing a bit more cleverly or you can forget about killing anyone with it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I can cremate pretty much anyone 1:1 as a pyro in meld in all of six balances. True, it's a one-shot kill and you won't be repeating it soon, but it can happen. I'm amused that so many people are complaining about an instant kill that hasn't even been tested in either group or solo situations as yet. But no, someone picked up our mana kill toy and we will throw tantrums about it until it's nerfed? Please. Admins have clearly stated that if numbers are a bit too much, it will get nerfed on their end... although I'm not seeing it myself. If someone doesn't have curing, sure, they'll get screwed by it... but since when have we been balancing on the person that walks into a fight without a single curing trigger again? Let's delete all guilds/skillsets/races and let everyone PvP with kick/punch. It will certainly be balanced then.
EDIT: Heck, to address the issue with someone not having curing, I can actually just as easily bring up dysbaric pressure and point out how I can kill anyone that doesn't know how to cure cloudcoils by just having them sit in my meld and then walk in and cast dysbaric pressure on them. It's happened before... I throw my tk diagnose combo on someone, see they have 5+ cloud coils, just dysbaric and move on to the next target.
Okay first, your hyperbole about kicking, punching, and no curing is noted and this is my face:
Secondly, I don't know if you are intentionally not looking at PK in a realistic context or if you think PK is putting double haegl on repeat and calling it balanced because no one died to it. Both are pretty ridiculous approaches to balance.
I am telling you, as a former Blacktalon runist who predominantly focused on swoop kills with haegl, that it is fairly easy to get someone to 25% with double haegl and fused haegl, and I did it without claws, mental afflictions to force focus mind, and 2 passive mana drains from a demesne. I did it against very competent PKers, and it was not overly difficult. In group scenarios, where all you literally have to do is spam double haegl, it was even easier. I'm still a mana kill class, and it's becoming apparent to me that you don't really grasp the concepts surrounding mana kill strategies, it's not just smash your drain button and call it a day, and not being able to do that does not mean your skill is a-ok. The entire point is that BTs, who had less tools available to them, could reasonably accomplish this kill scenario and you thought it appropriate to give yourself a beefed up version of it.
Instead of taking this input for what it is, feedback from an uninvolved party who has an apples to apples comparison grounded in legitimate PK experience with a nearly identical mechanic, you take the position of criticizing people who are theory crafting while simultaneously making a point that it's fair because you have some theory crafted idea about pyromancers we should all take seriously. The irony and hypocrisy of that conflict in your own post is just overwhelming.
You need to take a step back, get some perspective, and not act like you know it all. Do you know why I don't get involved in illuminati debates? Because I don't have any hands on experience with the class. Do you know why I am giving you this feedback on a mana kill? Because between SD, Harbinger, and Blacktalon, I have played mana kill classes for the past 5 years. If that's a "tantrum," to you, I'm okay with that. I'm just going to call it feedback and experience.
I'm still failing to see how a 5p single balance attack is a beefed up version of a 0p single balance attack that. I'm also rather failing to see where your two meld tics that drain mana happen. I'm definitely not going to comment on how if you're stacking the drains off the haegls, you're obviously not capitalizing on the meld drain effect which requires mental afflictions to accomplish anything but be a nuisance. I guess I can epilepsy off beast + two mental aff runes on the meld tic to capitalize on the 20% drain... but again, I'm draining 20% mana for 1p and it's happening once ever 10s... if you are dying to just that, then there's a problem with your curing, not with my skill. Claws also isn't as big a drain as people seem to think it is. The only way claws will pressure someone's mana is if you manage to also stack vessels on them, which is very much a hit and miss thing... but at that point, you're not doing double haegl or stacking mental affs on anyone as TK doesn't have that option.
Your feedback is noted, but I don't see it as an issue myself. I'm also rather amused at the fact that it seems it's just you (not a mage), @Synkarin (Not a mage) and @Silvanus (Again, not a mage) spotting this monumental problematic issue. I'll take @Shuyin's comment on this particular one over either of yours and he supported this kill method. Beyond that, if it proves to be as big a problem as you all seem to think it is (I'm betting it won't), then we'll discuss it and suggest a nerf.
As to my 'theorycrafted' idea about pyromancers... it's not theorycrafted at all. It was done and tested, and more than one person achieved the same result with the same abilities. I don't claim to know it all, but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with my aeromancy skills and know how much pressure to mana I can apply with them.
As to my 'theorycrafted' idea about pyromancers... it's not theorycrafted at all. It was done and tested, and more than one person achieved the same result with the same abilities. I don't claim to know it all, but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with my aeromancy skills and know how much pressure to mana I can apply with them.
Claws causes enough bleeding to force clots that counteract the gains from sparkle/scroll partially, if not entirely. Claws is actually pretty good bleeding, I referenced it when I was doing some research to envoy redcaps. No one dies to redcap/barghest yet they are integral parts of my mana draining capabilities because of this. When you have abilities that force people to play defensive or switch sipping priorities because sparkle/scroll can't keep up, that is literally the definition of pressuring mana.
The way you argue about combat balance has understanding of flexibility and adaptation. You are very black and white, all or nothing. You can't spam haegl to win, so it's fine. Your meld won't be draining the full 20% every tic so it's fine. You can't die to claws, so it's fine. It's just....ugh.
You. Don't. Understand. How. Mana. Kills. Work.
Clearly I'm stupid and you're not. Thanks for your input, it has been noted. Do enjoy your enlightenment while I go sit here in the idiot corner with my mana kill that I don't understand.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
When your character tries to be nice to everyone in your new home and everyone seems to be nice back...and then you suddenly find a bunch of daggers stuck in your back, and you don't know who did it, or even why...
The only way to survive in the politicing that is Lusternia social interactions is to keep in mind a few simple pointers.
Trust no one. Expect nothing. Know that there's no such thing as friendship.
Only then will you be safe from the inevitable betrayals.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Dunno, it's not as strong as people think it is. If you're throwing claws on someone, you've just dumped 3p on them... three double-haegls later, they're at over 40% mana and you're at the point where you're entering the territory of... either I keep spamming double haegl with no way to capitalize on it or I lose any kind of headway I've made on them. Seems pretty balanced to me. You either approach the whole thing a bit more cleverly or you can forget about killing anyone with it. On the other hand, I'm pretty sure I can cremate pretty much anyone 1:1 as a pyro in meld in all of six balances. True, it's a one-shot kill and you won't be repeating it soon, but it can happen. I'm amused that so many people are complaining about an instant kill that hasn't even been tested in either group or solo situations as yet. But no, someone picked up our mana kill toy and we will throw tantrums about it until it's nerfed? Please. Admins have clearly stated that if numbers are a bit too much, it will get nerfed on their end... although I'm not seeing it myself. If someone doesn't have curing, sure, they'll get screwed by it... but since when have we been balancing on the person that walks into a fight without a single curing trigger again? Let's delete all guilds/skillsets/races and let everyone PvP with kick/punch. It will certainly be balanced then.
EDIT: Heck, to address the issue with someone not having curing, I can actually just as easily bring up dysbaric pressure and point out how I can kill anyone that doesn't know how to cure cloudcoils by just having them sit in my meld and then walk in and cast dysbaric pressure on them. It's happened before... I throw my tk diagnose combo on someone, see they have 5+ cloud coils, just dysbaric and move on to the next target.
Okay first, your hyperbole about kicking, punching, and no curing is noted and this is my face:
Secondly, I don't know if you are intentionally not looking at PK in a realistic context or if you think PK is putting double haegl on repeat and calling it balanced because no one died to it. Both are pretty ridiculous approaches to balance.
I am telling you, as a former Blacktalon runist who predominantly focused on swoop kills with haegl, that it is fairly easy to get someone to 25% with double haegl and fused haegl, and I did it without claws, mental afflictions to force focus mind, and 2 passive mana drains from a demesne. I did it against very competent PKers, and it was not overly difficult. In group scenarios, where all you literally have to do is spam double haegl, it was even easier. I'm still a mana kill class, and it's becoming apparent to me that you don't really grasp the concepts surrounding mana kill strategies, it's not just smash your drain button and call it a day, and not being able to do that does not mean your skill is a-ok. The entire point is that BTs, who had less tools available to them, could reasonably accomplish this kill scenario and you thought it appropriate to give yourself a beefed up version of it.
Instead of taking this input for what it is, feedback from an uninvolved party who has an apples to apples comparison grounded in legitimate PK experience with a nearly identical mechanic, you take the position of criticizing people who are theory crafting while simultaneously making a point that it's fair because you have some theory crafted idea about pyromancers we should all take seriously. The irony and hypocrisy of that conflict in your own post is just overwhelming.
You need to take a step back, get some perspective, and not act like you know it all. Do you know why I don't get involved in illuminati debates? Because I don't have any hands on experience with the class. Do you know why I am giving you this feedback on a mana kill? Because between SD, Harbinger, and Blacktalon, I have played mana kill classes for the past 5 years. If that's a "tantrum," to you, I'm okay with that. I'm just going to call it feedback and experience.
I'm still failing to see how a 5p single balance attack is a beefed up version of a 0p single balance attack that. I'm also rather failing to see where your two meld tics that drain mana happen. I'm definitely not going to comment on how if you're stacking the drains off the haegls, you're obviously not capitalizing on the meld drain effect which requires mental afflictions to accomplish anything but be a nuisance. I guess I can epilepsy off beast + two mental aff runes on the meld tic to capitalize on the 20% drain... but again, I'm draining 20% mana for 1p and it's happening once ever 10s... if you are dying to just that, then there's a problem with your curing, not with my skill. Claws also isn't as big a drain as people seem to think it is. The only way claws will pressure someone's mana is if you manage to also stack vessels on them, which is very much a hit and miss thing... but at that point, you're not doing double haegl or stacking mental affs on anyone as TK doesn't have that option.
Your feedback is noted, but I don't see it as an issue myself. I'm also rather amused at the fact that it seems it's just you (not a mage), @Synkarin (Not a mage) and @Silvanus (Again, not a mage) spotting this monumental problematic issue. I'll take @Shuyin's comment on this particular one over either of yours and he supported this kill method. Beyond that, if it proves to be as big a problem as you all seem to think it is (I'm betting it won't), then we'll discuss it and suggest a nerf.
As to my 'theorycrafted' idea about pyromancers... it's not theorycrafted at all. It was done and tested, and more than one person achieved the same result with the same abilities. I don't claim to know it all, but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with my aeromancy skills and know how much pressure to mana I can apply with them.
As to my 'theorycrafted' idea about pyromancers... it's not theorycrafted at all. It was done and tested, and more than one person achieved the same result with the same abilities. I don't claim to know it all, but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with my aeromancy skills and know how much pressure to mana I can apply with them.
Claws causes enough bleeding to force clots that counteract the gains from sparkle/scroll partially, if not entirely. Claws is actually pretty good bleeding, I referenced it when I was doing some research to envoy redcaps. No one dies to redcap/barghest yet they are integral parts of my mana draining capabilities because of this. When you have abilities that force people to play defensive or switch sipping priorities because sparkle/scroll can't keep up, that is literally the definition of pressuring mana.
The way you argue about combat balance has understanding of flexibility and adaptation. You are very black and white, all or nothing. You can't spam haegl to win, so it's fine. Your meld won't be draining the full 20% every tic so it's fine. You can't die to claws, so it's fine. It's just....ugh.
You. Don't. Understand. How. Mana. Kills. Work.
Clearly I'm stupid and you're not. Thanks for your input, it has been noted. Do enjoy your enlightenment while I go sit here in the idiot corner with my mana kill that I don't understand.
You're very clearly not stupid, but you are unwilling to listen. You don't have that much experience with mana kills or runes, and instead of acknowledging you don't know you are just going to disagree with everything. You don't want to learn about things from people who probably know more about a specific topic than you do.
edit: You forget I know the exact moment you went runist, you were literally learning it while we were waiting on the War Seal, and you didn't really stick around with Glom for much longer. It's fine to not know things, everyone doesn't know a lot of things. It's not fine to act like you know it anyways.
@Elanorwen - If your 'cremate in 6 meld ticks' is the incinerate spam -refresh power-incinerate-cremate trick, it's easily avoidable. Just like your 'dysbaricpressure is super doable with my clot illusion' is easily avoidable. You can't sit here and justify the use of an easily dodged gimmick as justification to this being balanced.
I've also been a druid and a mage and am pretty familiar with the mechanics.
Yes, I called it an easy button. Just wait until you guys get your fight with numbers and push the mana drain in groups. Get upset about it if you like, but as you've already have been really open about the fact that you can't be bothered to try and kill anyone with anything other than your cheese sleeplock gimmick and say that 'metawake shuts down a complete skillset' rather than just a single tactic, I'm really just calling a spade a spade.
Celina has always had some pretty great insight on things. Think edgy Lerad. At least that's how I see things. People could have different opinions.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Get upset about it if you like, but as you've already have been really open about the fact that you can't be bothered to try and kill anyone with anything other than your cheese sleeplock gimmick and say that 'metawake shuts down a complete skillset' rather than just a single tactic, I'm really just calling a spade a spade.
non sequitur
/ˈnɒn ˈsɛkwɪtə/
noun
1.
a statement having little or no relevance to what preceded it
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
@Elanorwen - If your 'cremate in 6 meld ticks' is the incinerate spam -refresh power-incinerate-cremate trick, it's easily avoidable. Just like your 'dysbaricpressure is super doable with my clot illusion' is easily avoidable. You can't sit here and justify the use of an easily dodged gimmick as justification to this being balanced.
I've also been a druid and a mage and am pretty familiar with the mechanics.
Yes, I called it an easy button. Just wait until you guys get your fight with numbers and push the mana drain in groups. Get upset about it if you like, but as you've already have been really open about the fact that you can't be bothered to try and kill anyone with anything other than your cheese sleeplock gimmick and say that 'metawake shuts down a complete skillset' rather than just a single tactic, I'm really just calling a spade a spade.
Huhwhat.... since when am I cheese sleeplocking people? That's a new one on me. Just because someone else in my organization has certain views on things doesn't mean I share them or even agree with them. Technically speaking, any gimmick is easily avoidable in 1:1 situations. This TK getting your vessels up? Step away for a couple of sips, watch them flail at trying to get back in the fight. Or heck, even more entertaining... psi barrier. Gone are the days when you could psi shatter before your TK combos with no balance loss. And even if you could, there's still balance loss on psi shatter which will kill any vessel momentum you have managed to achieve.
Yes, in group fights it might be strong... but it'll be strong on one target because of the meld tic and the 20% drain on it. @Siam is running a report to nerf double haegl spam. News flash, I'm all for it because I feel that double haegl is too strong even though 1:1 you won't be getting anyone in danger zones manawise with it alone. You're all also assuming that an opponent is not trying to hinder at all. Congratulations, there's a mana kill on a class that makes a primary target... i.e. mage... if your group is not focusing the mage down, you've either neutralized the meld with your own melders... i.e. this kill method is no longer an option for the mage because it's the wrong terrain and the 20% meld drain isn't affecting you because it's not the aero meld anymore... or you're doing it wrong. A runist mage will pressure your mana with haegls, sure... a TP mage will need to rely heavily on their meld effect + mental affs + claws... where a simple love potion/lust tarot will kill their momentum completely.... same applies to any mage, really... because fused haegls hit off enemy list, not off a target... and aero meld has a healing tic for your allies/lusted targets which will be countering some of the drain.
Again, it will be strong in group fights up to a point. What isn't? Next thing you'll be telling me omen + sensitivity + 6 heavy hitters on one target isn't strong in group fights. Or maybe crucify/immediate ecto? Or perhaps two illum stacking their ents with sluggishness+transfix+active ecto/ropes isn't? Please.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
When focus goes away, locking strategies get better which leads to easier drains, it's not as cut and dry as "my kill condition gets worse"
This is actually my concern. Not so much that locking will get better, but that it will be harder to cure away all of your mental afflictions before the demesne ticks again, and the mana drain scales to your mental affliction status. Getting overloaded with lucidity affs shouldn't be too hard with the options currently open to an aeromancer (or a great many other classes), some of which are debilitating on their own, without additional mana draining.
Except...that argument doesn't hold water because we're talking about two different skillsets, not to mention that Loralaria has and will always be escape-able, no matter how easy the button is.
When your character tries to be nice to everyone in your new home and everyone seems to be nice back...and then you suddenly find a bunch of daggers stuck in your back, and you don't know who did it, or even why...
Well when you're in an enemy Divine's fulcrux with someone suspected to be still in that Divine's order and who is an elfen in Magnagora, people tend to get suspicious and poke people about it.
@Elanorwen using gimmick tactics in pyromancers as justification that the current set up is okay. -> easy button
@Maligorn stating that he has no interest in fights beyond gimmick tactics -> easy button
@Maligorn proceeding to complain that people slap on 'easy button' comments
@Synkarin justifying his 'easy button' comments by refering to statements made by individiuals showing that they just want easy button kills
Nice try though
Pretty sure I'm giving more than just "Pyromancers gimmick" as my justification, but sure... let's ignore all of it to suit our argument better. And it sounds like this discussion is officially over.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Man, no one is interested in having to work for things, they all want their easy button kills.
Here is my comment that started all of this. Where do I mention one skillset?
Again, nice try
The weakest argument in all of arguments, since for the past month you've been carrying on about report 1313 being an easy button kill, and as soon as it's implemented you speak on Tweets about it. Are you drunk, or trolling, or what?
Hey, why don't we take this to a clan ingame or a new thread, please.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Comments
Also note that focus mind is going away. I turned my focus mind curing off in a spar with Elanorwen; she couldn't get me in a kill condition on her own.
EDIT: We can get some logs up for you guys to look at if that'd quell some of the pitchforks.
When focus goes away, locking strategies get better which leads to easier drains, it's not as cut and dry as "my kill condition gets worse"
Your feedback is noted, but I don't see it as an issue myself. I'm also rather amused at the fact that it seems it's just you (not a mage), @Synkarin (Not a mage) and @Silvanus (Again, not a mage) spotting this monumental problematic issue. I'll take @Shuyin's comment on this particular one over either of yours and he supported this kill method. Beyond that, if it proves to be as big a problem as you all seem to think it is (I'm betting it won't), then we'll discuss it and suggest a nerf.
As to my 'theorycrafted' idea about pyromancers... it's not theorycrafted at all. It was done and tested, and more than one person achieved the same result with the same abilities. I don't claim to know it all, but I'm pretty sure I'm reasonably familiar with my aeromancy skills and know how much pressure to mana I can apply with them.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I can agree that Elanorwen didn't seem to be trying particularly hard to properly mana drain. She probably needs practice, yes. But it's pretty frustrating to see everyone theorycraft over our heads -after the fact- instead of properly garnering support during the envoy stage to get it shut down, and it's annoying to get so much angst when it hasn't even seen the light of day in combat yet. To a proper extent, anyway.
Trust no one.
Expect nothing.
Know that there's no such thing as friendship.
Only then will you be safe from the inevitable betrayals.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
/ˈnɒn ˈsɛkwɪtə/
noun
1.
Yes, in group fights it might be strong... but it'll be strong on one target because of the meld tic and the 20% drain on it. @Siam is running a report to nerf double haegl spam. News flash, I'm all for it because I feel that double haegl is too strong even though 1:1 you won't be getting anyone in danger zones manawise with it alone. You're all also assuming that an opponent is not trying to hinder at all. Congratulations, there's a mana kill on a class that makes a primary target... i.e. mage... if your group is not focusing the mage down, you've either neutralized the meld with your own melders... i.e. this kill method is no longer an option for the mage because it's the wrong terrain and the 20% meld drain isn't affecting you because it's not the aero meld anymore... or you're doing it wrong. A runist mage will pressure your mana with haegls, sure... a TP mage will need to rely heavily on their meld effect + mental affs + claws... where a simple love potion/lust tarot will kill their momentum completely.... same applies to any mage, really... because fused haegls hit off enemy list, not off a target... and aero meld has a healing tic for your allies/lusted targets which will be countering some of the drain.
Again, it will be strong in group fights up to a point. What isn't? Next thing you'll be telling me omen + sensitivity + 6 heavy hitters on one target isn't strong in group fights. Or maybe crucify/immediate ecto? Or perhaps two illum stacking their ents with sluggishness+transfix+active ecto/ropes isn't? Please.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Nice try though
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Again, nice try
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The Inner Sea. I take commissions doe.