EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
It's no good arguing this on the forums. As I said--reading through these posts, it's clearly obvious demands and egos prevented this from happening, and Glom is just as much to blame as Mag. You two groups can argue it all you want, the rest of us will go about our lives.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
For all you know, Estarra already has it planned out two years from now for an event, but you're willing to throw a fit icly because Mag didn't throw enough fits at the admin to get it removed.
So basically, what you're saying is that a Nature organization shouldn't care that Nature is scarred / marked / weakened, should completely ignore it, and roleplay that it doesn't exist at all because it might get resolved some day in the future if you pretend it doesn't exist.
That's not roleplay. :P
1
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Move along everyone, nothing to see here.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
For all you know, Estarra already has it planned out two years from now for an event, but you're willing to throw a fit icly because Mag didn't throw enough fits at the admin to get it removed.
So basically, what you're saying is that a Nature organization shouldn't care that Nature is scarred / marked / weakened, should completely ignore it, and roleplay that it doesn't exist at all because it might get resolved some day in the future if you pretend it doesn't exist.
That's not roleplay. :P
Oh, no. It's totally fair rp, and I'd think badly of you if you did otherwise. But when it comes down to it, you know that the admin can't/won't do anything about it, and you still hold onto this belief that if Mag just keeps pushing, the admin will cave in and remove it.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
The real villain in the hai'Gloh/Xion Initiative/Tainted Maeve stuff is Celest. That entire thing was Celest's fault. Tainted Maeve was just Magnagora's (enormous) recompense for getting dragged along and consequently getting the stuffing kicked out of it for weeks and weeks on Celest's behalf.
And on that note, it's completely in-character for Glom to be proactive and cut ties at the first whiff of 'inevitable betrayal' by an ally, formal or de facto. Even if Glom's stance on ascension had not been common knowledge to anyone who bothered to ask them about it all week, this should not have surprised anyone.
And Celest only did this because the forests initially chose to brand Raziela with a torture device for something that hadn't been done in lifetimes.And when the forests were approached about removing it, they declined, pushing Celest towards Magnagora. The brand Maeve currently carries is an interesting mirror of the brand that Raziela laboured under (except I don't think the Maeve brand imposes any mechanical limitations. You can still do all Maeve-related quests I think. Raziela's brand stopped her from converting Fae) which suggests to me that the forests might be able to find a method to remove it on their own.
Aaaaanyway, I'm honestly surprised 'bout the concern for Maeve. In (and especially outside) the game, I got the feeling that feelings ranged from Maeve-who to "that flakey good-for-nothing whiny (...)". I can see the discussion, but I really don't want tweets closed so...
tl;dr Blame Eventru. )
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Keeping in mind that I don't play in Mag right now, what IC actions do you think Mag could have taken to make this better?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
For all you know, Estarra already has it planned out two years from now for an event, but you're willing to throw a fit icly because Mag didn't throw enough fits at the admin to get it removed.
So basically, what you're saying is that a Nature organization shouldn't care that Nature is scarred / marked / weakened, should completely ignore it, and roleplay that it doesn't exist at all because it might get resolved some day in the future if you pretend it doesn't exist.
That's not roleplay. :P
Oh, no. It's totally fair rp, and I'd think badly of you if you did otherwise. But when it comes down to it, you know that the admin can't/won't do anything about it, and you still hold onto this belief that if Mag just keeps pushing, the admin will cave in and remove it.
Actually, it's not "can't" or "won't". I spoke about it with Estarra at IronCon. She was completely surprised that anyone still cared about it. I reminded her that we do!
It's not about "caving in," either. It's about enough interest being demonstrated in it for a God / ephemeral to put together an event (based on the orgs involved) to have an engaging experience. That's what opened Glomdoring, player interest. That's what got the bracelet removed from Raziela, player interest.
Player interest is (and should be!) a defining characteristic of the game. We help shape the world we live in, after all. We're not just bit players, we're actually drivers of the story on our own.
Edit: In response to your question, I'd probably have been satisfied with a regularly scheduled ritual (once every couple of IC years) meant to engage and assess the brand, see how it's fluctuating, and with tweaks to see what might help weaken its grip. It didn't need to be all the time, it just needed to be something both organizations were involved in and a part of, working together on.
I don't feel that we in any way "set you up to fail". I am absolutely positive that, if Magnagora had aggressively pursued it, the brand would be gone by now. One of the plethora of admin in Serenwilde, Glomdoring, or Magnagora would've put together a framework / proposal for an event, and something would have moved forward. Magnagora's lack of interest means that the only roleplay option is a hostile one, and I don't think anyone on the admin end has had an interest in pushing for more inter-org hostilities after the massive grief-fest of Hai'Gloh.
If this is true, then hasn't Glom just shot itself in the head? If this is true, then Glom could have 'aggressively pursued it' and took the lead on doing something about it, reached out to individual mags and formed a task force to actually get this done rather than bitch about it. Having reached out the mags within could obtain permission from the Iron Council and Nihilists to attempt to remove the Brand. At that point you'd have aggressive pursuit AND active bilateral support.
Around work we sometimes say, "No one is obligated to make your shit a higher priority than you."
For all you know, Estarra already has it planned out two years from now for an event, but you're willing to throw a fit icly because Mag didn't throw enough fits at the admin to get it removed.
So basically, what you're saying is that a Nature organization shouldn't care that Nature is scarred / marked / weakened, should completely ignore it, and roleplay that it doesn't exist at all because it might get resolved some day in the future if you pretend it doesn't exist.
That's not roleplay. :P
Oh, no. It's totally fair rp, and I'd think badly of you if you did otherwise. But when it comes down to it, you know that the admin can't/won't do anything about it, and you still hold onto this belief that if Mag just keeps pushing, the admin will cave in and remove it.
Actually, it's not "can't" or "won't". I spoke about it with Estarra at IronCon. She was completely surprised that anyone still cared about it. I reminded her that we do!
It's not about "caving in," either. It's about enough interest being demonstrated in it for a God / ephemeral to put together an event (based on the orgs involved) to have an engaging experience. That's what opened Glomdoring, player interest. That's what got the bracelet removed from Raziela, player interest.
Player interest is (and should be!) a defining characteristic of the game. We help shape the world we live in, after all. We're not just bit players, we're actually drivers of the story on our own.
Edit: In response to your question, I'd probably have been satisfied with a regularly scheduled ritual (once every couple of IC years) meant to engage and assess the brand, see how it's fluctuating, and with tweaks to see what might help weaken its grip. It didn't need to be all the time, it just needed to be something both organizations were involved in and a part of, working together on.
I'm all for this, but taking ic actions because (basically) oocly, a god or eph doesn't feel up for coming up with an event for this is just asinine.
Edit: In response to your late edit, I could see that. But when it comes down to it, it would all be just for show. Every person there would know it's all smoke and mirrors and bs.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Well, by that logic - why hasn't Glomdoring generated enough divine interest to see the brand removed?
2
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I'll just say what everyone reasonable is thinking--Glomdoring, and an alliance with them, are not nearly worth the amount of OOC work you're asking for. You're not that important.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
For all you know, Estarra already has it planned out two years from now for an event, but you're willing to throw a fit icly because Mag didn't throw enough fits at the admin to get it removed.
So basically, what you're saying is that a Nature organization shouldn't care that Nature is scarred / marked / weakened, should completely ignore it, and roleplay that it doesn't exist at all because it might get resolved some day in the future if you pretend it doesn't exist.
That's not roleplay. :P
Oh, no. It's totally fair rp, and I'd think badly of you if you did otherwise. But when it comes down to it, you know that the admin can't/won't do anything about it, and you still hold onto this belief that if Mag just keeps pushing, the admin will cave in and remove it.
Actually, it's not "can't" or "won't". I spoke about it with Estarra at IronCon. She was completely surprised that anyone still cared about it. I reminded her that we do!
It's not about "caving in," either. It's about enough interest being demonstrated in it for a God / ephemeral to put together an event (based on the orgs involved) to have an engaging experience. That's what opened Glomdoring, player interest. That's what got the bracelet removed from Raziela, player interest.
Player interest is (and should be!) a defining characteristic of the game. We help shape the world we live in, after all. We're not just bit players, we're actually drivers of the story on our own.
Edit: In response to your question, I'd probably have been satisfied with a regularly scheduled ritual (once every couple of IC years) meant to engage and assess the brand, see how it's fluctuating, and with tweaks to see what might help weaken its grip. It didn't need to be all the time, it just needed to be something both organizations were involved in and a part of, working together on.
I'm all for this, but taking ic actions because (basically) oocly, a god or eph doesn't feel up for coming up with an event for this is just asinine.
The other option is ignoring it, which I just don't consider to be a valid option.
You know, I would prefer that the brand had never been put on in the first place. It would have saved everyone a lot of headache and irritation. But now that it's there, that's the world we have to live in and work with. We have to react to and deal with the material that we're given as well.
Did Magnagora get a bit of a raw deal, here? No doubt. I can guarantee you that if the only thing was that Maeve was demonized and went on a rampage, there wouldn't be the same kind of long-lasting repercussions here. It would have been over and done with (with a fair bit of angst for a time thereafter, but it would've eventually faded into history, just like the other parts of the hai'Gloh). The problem is that there is a lasting and enduring mark which still affects here, and that is the problem.
I'll just say what everyone reasonable is thinking--Glomdoring, and an alliance with them, are not nearly worth the amount of OOC work you're asking for. You're not that important.
They decided that way, and did not get an alliance. That was their choice to make. From our end, that was the only logical request. Having an alliance with Magnagora, while Nifilhema's brand remains on Maeve, and Magnagora not even trying to address it, would have been a significant breach of Glomdoring's roleplay and identity.
The arrangement we ended up with was the only workable middle ground, but it was eventually not going to be sustainable any further. It did work for a time, though.
Hindsight is great. I think Steingrim's option is actually a good one. Mag was told remove the brand, but you're the one with ideas on how we actually could have at least made a difference. In the scheme of things she means nothing to us. But if it was at least subtly suggested 'work with us to find a way' I have zero doubt that a lot of people would have piled onto that rp.
We should learn from it. Communication doesn't have to destroy your secrecy or reveal your hand. We can even make it ooc, but at least it gives everyone something more than dead-ends and headaches. Looking back now, apparently there was a way to make you trust us some. At the time, there seemed NO way.
Well, by that logic - why hasn't Glomdoring generated enough divine interest to see the brand removed?
Explained that earlier; without Magnagora's interest, the only option is another hostile hai'Gloh type event, which... um. I really don't see anyone being all the interested in administering after the grumping about hai'Gloh. :P
The "escape valve" is a joint, concerted effort between forest & Mag.
Edit: And to add an edit, a huge part of your problem is that you treated it as a foregone conclusion. It certainly wasn't. The fact that you gave up on it and didn't bother to even try is what makes it seem that way.
or: And to add an edit, a huge part of Glom's problems are that they treat things as absolutes.
You're complaining about Mag handling politics poorly when you almost single-highhandedly torpedoed Gaudi relations, by acting over asking. You could have asked for immediate cessation with the agreement to fully discuss your views with Gaudi.
Glom is too often the no win girlfriend.
Girl: Why don't you bring me flowers?
A week later you bring her flowers.
Girl: Why are you bringing me flowers, what did you do?
3
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
They decided that way, and did not get an alliance. That was their choice to make.
It sounds like it was the best choice.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Glom should have been researching it. Then said 'Help us in our work to remove it and we'll talk' and all this discussion would be moot because we would have gone 'sounds fair and fun, sure thing.'
Hindsight is great. I think Steingrim's option is actually a good one. Mag was told remove the brand, but you're the one with ideas on how we actually could have at least made a difference. In the scheme of things she means nothing to us. But if it was at least subtly suggested 'work with us to find a way' I have zero doubt that a lot of people would have piled onto that rp.
We should learn from it. Communication doesn't have to destroy your secrecy or reveal your hand. We can even make it ooc, but at least it gives everyone something more than dead-ends and headaches. Looking back now, apparently there was a way to make you trust us some. At the time, there seemed NO way.
I will agree with that as well, it could have been communicated far better than it was. That's the kind of thing I was trying to suggest when last we spoke about it, but as you said, that was on Warlord #3 and it was probably just Too Late for Magnagora to really have an interest in delving into it at that point.
Looking back at the posts and remembering the time, I think we've nailed the biggest issue and sticking point, and that was being told to remove the brand first, as a sign of good faith, and then maybe we can discuss friendship. (I don't think it was bad roleplay, it just made everything a dead-end, which makes developing the story beyond it a lot harder, if not impossible.)
Take note, fellow roleplayers. Being flexible on matters mortals have their hands tied on will probably benefit everyone in the end!
EDIT: Also, I think it's clear now, that moving forward there is avenue in the future to set up some rp around research into the brand and it's removal. Hell, I don't even know what it does for Mag.
To save me the trouble of crashing mudlet and skipping over unnecessary stuff, while saving the Ascension log, I broke it into smaller pieces. 16 total parts. And looking back over it, I see so many mistakes I made.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Actually, @Portius canonically believes in "pleasure centres" in the lower wards for lesser citizens to get their bone on, so that they can continue to work peaceably.
If you don't think Hallifax is smart enough to control even the sexual urges of its citizenry, those of which can lead to aggressive and unlawful activity if left unsatisfied, then please let me invite to to the Grand Hallifaxian Centre of Reproductive Urges.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Actually, @Portius canonically believes in "pleasure centres" in the lower wards for lesser citizens to get their bone on, so that they can continue to work peaceably.
If you don't think Hallifax is smart enough to control even the sexual urges of its citizenry, those of which can lead to aggressive and unlawful activity if left unsatisfied, then please let me invite to to the Grand Hallifaxian Centre of Reproductive Urges.
Where do the not lesser citizens get their bone on? Asking for a friend.
Actually, @Portius canonically believes in "pleasure centres" in the lower wards for lesser citizens to get their bone on, so that they can continue to work peaceably.
If you don't think Hallifax is smart enough to control even the sexual urges of its citizenry, those of which can lead to aggressive and unlawful activity if left unsatisfied, then please let me invite to to the Grand Hallifaxian Centre of Reproductive Urges.
Where do the not lesser citizens get their bone on? Asking for a friend.
Comments
That's not roleplay. :P
-
Aaaaanyway, I'm honestly surprised 'bout the concern for Maeve. In (and especially outside) the game, I got the feeling that feelings ranged from Maeve-who to "that flakey good-for-nothing whiny (...)". I can see the discussion, but I really don't want tweets closed so...
tl;dr Blame Eventru.
Keeping in mind that I don't play in Mag right now, what IC actions do you think Mag could have taken to make this better?
It's not about "caving in," either. It's about enough interest being demonstrated in it for a God / ephemeral to put together an event (based on the orgs involved) to have an engaging experience. That's what opened Glomdoring, player interest. That's what got the bracelet removed from Raziela, player interest.
Player interest is (and should be!) a defining characteristic of the game. We help shape the world we live in, after all. We're not just bit players, we're actually drivers of the story on our own.
Edit: In response to your question, I'd probably have been satisfied with a regularly scheduled ritual (once every couple of IC years) meant to engage and assess the brand, see how it's fluctuating, and with tweaks to see what might help weaken its grip. It didn't need to be all the time, it just needed to be something both organizations were involved in and a part of, working together on.
Around work we sometimes say, "No one is obligated to make your shit a higher priority than you."
Edit: In response to your late edit, I could see that. But when it comes down to it, it would all be just for show. Every person there would know it's all smoke and mirrors and bs.
You know, I would prefer that the brand had never been put on in the first place. It would have saved everyone a lot of headache and irritation. But now that it's there, that's the world we have to live in and work with. We have to react to and deal with the material that we're given as well.
Did Magnagora get a bit of a raw deal, here? No doubt. I can guarantee you that if the only thing was that Maeve was demonized and went on a rampage, there wouldn't be the same kind of long-lasting repercussions here. It would have been over and done with (with a fair bit of angst for a time thereafter, but it would've eventually faded into history, just like the other parts of the hai'Gloh). The problem is that there is a lasting and enduring mark which still affects here, and that is the problem.
The arrangement we ended up with was the only workable middle ground, but it was eventually not going to be sustainable any further. It did work for a time, though.
We should learn from it. Communication doesn't have to destroy your secrecy or reveal your hand. We can even make it ooc, but at least it gives everyone something more than dead-ends and headaches. Looking back now, apparently there was a way to make you trust us some. At the time, there seemed NO way.
The "escape valve" is a joint, concerted effort between forest & Mag.
You're complaining about Mag handling politics poorly when you almost single-highhandedly torpedoed Gaudi relations, by acting over asking. You could have asked for immediate cessation with the agreement to fully discuss your views with Gaudi.
Glom is too often the no win girlfriend.
Girl: Why don't you bring me flowers?
A week later you bring her flowers.
Girl: Why are you bringing me flowers, what did you do?
Take note, fellow roleplayers. Being flexible on matters mortals have their hands tied on will probably benefit everyone in the end!
EDIT: Also, I think it's clear now, that moving forward there is avenue in the future to set up some rp around research into the brand and it's removal. Hell, I don't even know what it does for Mag.
Signature!
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
If you don't think Hallifax is smart enough to control even the sexual urges of its citizenry, those of which can lead to aggressive and unlawful activity if left unsatisfied, then please let me invite to to the Grand Hallifaxian Centre of Reproductive Urges.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."