Yep..Im sure that enhanced regeneration while sleeping comes in real handy. Additionally, heaven knows players are just lined up in the RPWHO queues.
I don't understand your jab at RPWHO. Unlike spars, once you initiate RP with people, it tends to last a long time. The only time I would expect RPWHO to be used after it's initial use is if a person changes the time they actively play in, or the people they normally play with go awol.
Yep..Im sure that enhanced regeneration while sleeping comes in real handy. Additionally, heaven knows players are just lined up in the RPWHO queues.
Yep, that one skill makes the entire skillset useless! Surely, every skill in every skillset everywhere is useful or we'd only have useless skillsets throughout the entire game! Oh wait.....
Yep, that one skill makes the entire skillset useless! Surely, every skill in every skillset everywhere is useful or we'd only have useless skillsets throughout the entire game! Oh wait.....
Wowza, Sidd... you need to stop making sense. Otherwise how can we do our usual rage-induced fight on the forums?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Is there a stole shop? I'm a bit unclear how you get them from an order.
You'll need to approach your (hopefully) active divine and see if they have plans to make some.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Yep..Im sure that enhanced regeneration while sleeping comes in real handy. Additionally, heaven knows players are just lined up in the RPWHO queues.
Yep, that one skill makes the entire skillset useless! Surely, every skill in every skillset everywhere is useful or we'd only have useless skillsets throughout the entire game! Oh wait.....
That was a example, I'll list them all though.
Prospicience
Cost: 500 cult essence
See
through the eyes of a member of your cult, and know the world as they
know it. Only the Avatar may perform this rite, and it must be performed
at the cult's altar.
(Not sure much use for this or importance of, especially with the Avatar having to be at the altar.)
SupplicantsPrayer
Cost: 100,000 essence
Increase the value of your cult's offerings with this rite of
supplication. The more cultists are present at the time of its casting,
the more potent the bonus. The benefit will last for one day, and then
fade.
(so we pay 100k essence to try and increase (in the likelyhood they are gathered) the future offerings? Apparently with five cult members, you'll need to offer about eleven full figurines during the following day to come out ahead.
Noetics
Cost: 10,000 essence
Venerate your patron with this rite and be granted the privilege to
not only hear what your cult member hears, but to speak directly through
him. This can only be performed at the cult's altar, and will fade if
you move from it.
(Very helpful I suppose?)
DeiparousSpeed
Cost: 5,000 essence
Venerate your Patron with this rite, and He may bestow upon you the
ability to move faster and farther than before. Move swiftly across the
land, and spread the word of your God.
(Really? This is what an Avatar needs to pay essence for?)
PiousSacrifice
Cost: 10,000 essence
Offer up the essence of your cult to your God, sanctifying shrines and lands in His name.
(How often do you find yourself in the desperate need to sanctify quickly? I dont see much point to this)
Presence
Cost: 50,000 essence
Member Requirement: 7 (4 if Avatar)
Call your God's presence to walk amongst the Cult, bolstering your influencing, charisma and ego for a time.
(I suppose this would be useful for village revolts, but requiring 4 members around for a random timed event? Doesnt seem very likely)
Other than those, it seems 80% of the abilities will only have affect within the God's realm...which isnt very helpful. The old Ascendance skill, though considered a bit overpowered, was definitely of more use.
Prospicience/Noetics is obviously for RP purposes. You send an acolyte of your cult to be your eyes and mouth because you're too freakin' awesome to do it yourself.
SupplicantsPrayer - obviously to boost offerings, would be used with the understanding that your cult members had significant amounts of esteem to offer.
DeiparousSpeed - Only 5000 essence for haste? Gimme!
PiousSacrifice - You can use CULT ESSENCE to sanctify shrines instead of wasting esteem in a figurine? Holy fucking carp, give me that.
The rest are generally like distort/ripple for a godrealm. Handy for raids.
Prospicience/Noetics is obviously for RP purposes. You send an acolyte of your cult to be your eyes and mouth because you're too freakin' awesome to do it yourself.
SupplicantsPrayer - obviously to boost offerings, would be used with the understanding that your cult members had significant amounts of esteem to offer.
DeiparousSpeed - Only 5000 essence for haste? Gimme!
PiousSacrifice - You can use CULT ESSENCE to sanctify shrines instead of wasting esteem in a figurine? Holy fucking carp, give me that.
The rest are generally like distort/ripple for a godrealm. Handy for raids.
One would assume your shrines all flying like flies and that esteem is actually difficult to build.
Also, yep, definitely need to find someone who's bored enough to go stand in the location of someone I want to talk to so I can talk through them (really...this is being argued as important?)
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. You also seem to think cult essence is hard to come by once you trans veneration. When I left my Nocht cult, we easily had 25mil+ in cult essence. I know cults with much much more.
Supplicant's Prayer is a huge boost for an hour. I don't know where you get your 11 full figures number because 1) unless you have a billion esteem, your figurine isn't full (not to mention lvl buffs + offering buffs you can get) and 2) 1mil offerings = 100k cult essence. 1 mil is easy to offer and can be easily done on 1 figurine.
DeiparousSpeed is a haste buff that lasts until logout, it's nice and helps combat that weather issue you were offering up beastmastery ideas for.
Presence is a huge boost to influencing, it's fantastic for revolts and if you have a good cult, 4 people is easy peasy.
Pioussacrifice is one of the most OP skills ever. I think it should actually be removed or toned down, and I've said as much in envoy reports in the past. It removes the esteem requirement for keeping up shrines. It's whored as much as humanly possible and makes shrine wars pretty ridiculous.
Prospience and Noetics are definitely RP tools and they can and have been used in the past for a variety of things, from spying in on meetings to having fun RP flavour stuff. Yes, they are probably the least mechanically useful, but they provide a fun avenue for RP.
I put up DeiparousSpeed everytime I log in. I have acrobatics speed and I still can't get enough of it. You should try it sometime, it makes a huge difference.
PiousSac is super useful. It takes a significant amount of esteem to fully sanctify an entire shrine area, even for hardcore esteem farmers. For occasional influencers like me, I can easily wipe out a week's store in taking down a single fully sanctified shrine. Setting up a shrine have given enough combat bonuses to break a forted up group before, and similarly breaking shrine influence (and therefore the effects) are also the number 1 priority for breaking the aforementioned forted up groups, if they're sitting on one. Having every bit of extra esteem able to put into defiling while having an unlimited source to sanctify your own can make a huge difference in such fights. Back when esteem was in needles, orgs used to hoard needles, buying them at the rate of 1 needle = 1 credit somtimes, for this express purpose - literally only for fighting.
Besides, having a Supplicant's Prayer is a nice way to end a cult-bash. Even if it makes a minimal difference, or doesn't even make up for it (unlikely if you're bashing something actually worth it) it's still very nice.
Next thing we'll hear how Omniscience is also useless. (It's probably the main reason I want a cult of my own, gotta get back on the farm train for veneration again)
I'd love to have the ability to play with any of the before-listed powers. Especially noetics and prospicience sound like so much fun. That said, it's not that veneration doesn't have abilities that are a bit on the sucky side... but like it was said earlier... I doubt anyone can name a skillset that doesn't have sucky/situational abilities. If they didn't, we'd have half the abilities per skillset and that would be much more boring.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Well atleast we won't have all cult leaders and no cult members :P I think its important to remember that this skillset is in theory free for the majority of people who have it.
You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. You also seem to think cult essence is hard to come by once you trans veneration. When I left my Nocht cult, we easily had 25mil+ in cult essence. I know cults with much much more.
Supplicant's Prayer is a huge boost for an hour. I don't know where you get your 11 full figures number because 1) unless you have a billion esteem, your figurine isn't full (not to mention lvl buffs + offering buffs you can get) and 2) 1mil offerings = 100k cult essence. 1 mil is easy to offer and can be easily done on 1 figurine.
DeiparousSpeed is a haste buff that lasts until logout, it's nice and helps combat that weather issue you were offering up beastmastery ideas for.
Presence is a huge boost to influencing, it's fantastic for revolts and if you have a good cult, 4 people is easy peasy.
Pioussacrifice is one of the most OP skills ever. I think it should actually be removed or toned down, and I've said as much in envoy reports in the past. It removes the esteem requirement for keeping up shrines. It's whored as much as humanly possible and makes shrine wars pretty ridiculous.
Prospience and Noetics are definitely RP tools and they can and have been used in the past for a variety of things, from spying in on meetings to having fun RP flavour stuff. Yes, they are probably the least mechanically useful, but they provide a fun avenue for RP.
- When I said full, I meant basically 500 esteem, meaning a full amount gained.
To the bolded; Yay for situational abilities! When was the last shrine war?
To the italic: You want to spy on a meeting your own ally has attented? Okay...
Not sure why the intense defense, the fact is the fact, Veneration cant compare to old Ascendance. It has roughly 3 abilities that are at all useful. If im looking to spend the rest of my life in my god realm running around quickly and getting an influence bonus, i'll be sure to take it up...
It wasn't meant to replace Ascendance. The bulk of Ascendance abilities are now more widely available through Domoth powers (aegis, destruction, fearaura, etc.). Basically Ascendance was split into Domoth Powers and Veneration for avatars with a few odds and ends done away with (i.e. benevolence)
- When I said full, I meant basically 500 esteem, meaning a full amount gained.
To the bolded; Yay for situational abilities! When was the last shrine war?
To the italic: You want to spy on a meeting your own ally has attented? Okay...
Not sure why the intense defense, the fact is the fact, Veneration cant compare to old Ascendance. It has roughly 3 abilities that are at all useful. If im looking to spend the rest of my life in my god realm running around quickly and getting an influence bonus, i'll be sure to take it up...
Full figurine is what you said. Not figurines imbued with the amount of esteem a person can hold. And who offers 5500 esteem anyway? My figurine (And I am by no means an influence-focused individual, so it's pretty low on power, plus I use it to sanctify/defile too) is sitting at 30k esteem with only esteem I've farmed myself. Normally people grab level 40 figurines (Which mine is) to offer huge amounts, somewhere north of 200k esteem. You have seen the Godmaker achievement and what it requires to complete, haven't you?
DeiparousSpeed gives you farther travel before you get the "don't be hasty" message. How is that ever situational. It works even when you're not slowed down by weather. And for 5k essence? Pshhhhhh.
A huge boost to influencing is a huge boost to influencing. It is a nice buff for revolts, but it can also be used to farm essence or whatever, so I don't see how it is a problem to have an ability that does that. Again, not exactly situational.
Even if there aren't shrine wars, isn't it better to just dump cult essence that you're not using anyway to raise a shrine and then offer the figurine for essence rather than to use the esteem in a figurine to sanctify? Have you ever actually sanctified a shrine from nothing to know exactly how much esteem it takes?
While you may enjoy the old Ascendance, it's gone... and I doubt a forum post from you will make it come back. And while you may be jealous of the cult heads in your order, that is hardly a reason to smirk at their hard-earned positions and the amount of work it took to raise a cult to full strength. Beyond that, nobody is forcing you to pick up veneration or join a cult, so I don't see where your problem is, exactly.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
The wiki says that you gain the benefit from 11 fully esteemed items. I assume it means needles from back when that was how it worked, so about 65K * 11 essence if I remember correctly.
- When I said full, I meant basically 500 esteem, meaning a full amount gained.
To the bolded; Yay for situational abilities! When was the last shrine war?
To the italic: You want to spy on a meeting your own ally has attented? Okay...
Not sure why the intense defense, the fact is the fact, Veneration cant compare to old Ascendance. It has roughly 3 abilities that are at all useful. If im looking to spend the rest of my life in my god realm running around quickly and getting an influence bonus, i'll be sure to take it up...
Ok, knowing the numbers you are using for esteem, lets re-evaluate how good Supplicant's Prayer is. You said it take 11 sets of 500 esteem to break even. 1 esteem =100 essence (assuming no figurine buffs or offering buffs) so that's 5500 esteem or 550k essence offered. If Supplicant's prayer is breaking even then, the total to break even is 1mil essence, so it's pretty much doubling your offerings. How is that useless again?
I like how you focus on the specific examples I mentioned to try and prove your point. They were just that, specific examples, not the entirety of use for them. Hundreds of skills within Lusternia are situational abilities, just about every skillset has situational abilities. Being situational also doesn't make them useless.
Do you want to know why there are fewer shrine wars? because PiousSacrifice is so good at what it does, why drop a shrine when it costs you esteem and them nothing?
You called Veneration 'useless.' Not that it didn't compare to Ascendance, but lets take a look at that. Roughly half the abilities(probably a little less) in Veneration come straight from Ascendance. The rest are purchasable powers (Destruction, Fearaura, Affinity, Aegis) for ascendants. Benevolence and Consumption are both gone, poof, no longer exist. Ascendance was only accessible to ascendants, Veneration is accessible to everyone within the cult (as @Daganev pointed out). So a skillset that consists of half the skillset you are comparing it too, can't really be that far off. Yes, the stronger abilities were turned into purchasable powers, but a mix of the rest of the abilities, both flavour and mechanical, were switched to Veneration, so it's actually really comparable, if not better because more abilities were introduced that are actually useful.
I count at least 14 abilities I used quite often and I hardly ever spent time in the Godrealm. Some for every day (like Deiparousspeed), some for bashing/fighting (devoutshield, vindicatedvendetta) some for revolts (Presence), others for RP. As I said, were I to get another cult (here's to hoping), I would gladly bash up the essence/esteem it takes to trans Veneration again.
The wiki says that you gain the benefit from 11 fully esteemed items. I assume it means needles from back when that was how it worked, so about 65K * 11 essence if I remember correctly.
The wiki says, and I quote:
With five cult members, you'll need to offer about eleven fully esteemed items during the following day to come out ahead.
The skill itself claims that the bonus is bigger the more cult members there are, meaning you'll need to offer less to come out ahead... but never mind that bit. It seems you're under the assumption that the bonus is limited to 11 fully esteemed items when it is not. Absolutely all offerings throughout the following IG day (1 hour) are improved. If you offer 11 old fully esteemed items only, you will come out ahead. If you offer a single figurine with 30k esteem on it, you will be WELL ahead. I assume you understand where this is going?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Comments
Unlike spars, once you initiate RP with people, it tends to last a long time. The only time I would expect RPWHO to be used after it's initial use is if a person changes the time they actively play in, or the people they normally play with go awol.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
That was a example, I'll list them all though.
Prospicience
SupplicantsPrayer
Cost: 100,000 essence
(so we pay 100k essence to try and increase (in the likelyhood they are gathered) the future offerings? Apparently with five cult members, you'll need to offer about eleven full figurines during the following day to come out ahead.
Noetics
Cost: 10,000 essence
(Very helpful I suppose?)
DeiparousSpeed
Cost: 5,000 essence
Venerate your Patron with this rite, and He may bestow upon you the ability to move faster and farther than before. Move swiftly across the land, and spread the word of your God.
(Really? This is what an Avatar needs to pay essence for?)
PiousSacrifice
Cost: 10,000 essence
Offer up the essence of your cult to your God, sanctifying shrines and lands in His name.
(How often do you find yourself in the desperate need to sanctify quickly? I dont see much point to this)
Presence
Cost: 50,000 essence
Member Requirement: 7 (4 if Avatar)
Call your God's presence to walk amongst the Cult, bolstering your influencing, charisma and ego for a time.
(I suppose this would be useful for village revolts, but requiring 4 members around for a random timed event? Doesnt seem very likely)
Other than those, it seems 80% of the abilities will only have affect within the God's realm...which isnt very helpful. The old Ascendance skill, though considered a bit overpowered, was definitely of more use.
Prospicience/Noetics is obviously for RP purposes. You send an acolyte of your cult to be your eyes and mouth because you're too freakin' awesome to do it yourself.
SupplicantsPrayer - obviously to boost offerings, would be used with the understanding that your cult members had significant amounts of esteem to offer.
DeiparousSpeed - Only 5000 essence for haste? Gimme!
PiousSacrifice - You can use CULT ESSENCE to sanctify shrines instead of wasting esteem in a figurine? Holy fucking carp, give me that.
The rest are generally like distort/ripple for a godrealm. Handy for raids.
Also, yep, definitely need to find someone who's bored enough to go stand in the location of someone I want to talk to so I can talk through them (really...this is being argued as important?)
True, else things might actually be more in balance.
PiousSac is super useful. It takes a significant amount of esteem to fully sanctify an entire shrine area, even for hardcore esteem farmers. For occasional influencers like me, I can easily wipe out a week's store in taking down a single fully sanctified shrine. Setting up a shrine have given enough combat bonuses to break a forted up group before, and similarly breaking shrine influence (and therefore the effects) are also the number 1 priority for breaking the aforementioned forted up groups, if they're sitting on one. Having every bit of extra esteem able to put into defiling while having an unlimited source to sanctify your own can make a huge difference in such fights. Back when esteem was in needles, orgs used to hoard needles, buying them at the rate of 1 needle = 1 credit somtimes, for this express purpose - literally only for fighting.
Besides, having a Supplicant's Prayer is a nice way to end a cult-bash. Even if it makes a minimal difference, or doesn't even make up for it (unlikely if you're bashing something actually worth it) it's still very nice.
I'd love to have the ability to play with any of the before-listed powers. Especially noetics and prospicience sound like so much fun. That said, it's not that veneration doesn't have abilities that are a bit on the sucky side... but like it was said earlier... I doubt anyone can name a skillset that doesn't have sucky/situational abilities. If they didn't, we'd have half the abilities per skillset and that would be much more boring.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I think its important to remember that this skillset is in theory free for the majority of people who have it.
- When I said full, I meant basically 500 esteem, meaning a full amount gained.
To the bolded; Yay for situational abilities! When was the last shrine war?
To the italic: You want to spy on a meeting your own ally has attented? Okay...
Not sure why the intense defense, the fact is the fact, Veneration cant compare to old Ascendance. It has roughly 3 abilities that are at all useful. If im looking to spend the rest of my life in my god realm running around quickly and getting an influence bonus, i'll be sure to take it up...
It wasn't meant to replace Ascendance. The bulk of Ascendance abilities are now more widely available through Domoth powers (aegis, destruction, fearaura, etc.). Basically Ascendance was split into Domoth Powers and Veneration for avatars with a few odds and ends done away with (i.e. benevolence)
DeiparousSpeed gives you farther travel before you get the "don't be hasty" message. How is that ever situational. It works even when you're not slowed down by weather. And for 5k essence? Pshhhhhh.
A huge boost to influencing is a huge boost to influencing. It is a nice buff for revolts, but it can also be used to farm essence or whatever, so I don't see how it is a problem to have an ability that does that. Again, not exactly situational.
Even if there aren't shrine wars, isn't it better to just dump cult essence that you're not using anyway to raise a shrine and then offer the figurine for essence rather than to use the esteem in a figurine to sanctify? Have you ever actually sanctified a shrine from nothing to know exactly how much esteem it takes?
While you may enjoy the old Ascendance, it's gone... and I doubt a forum post from you will make it come back. And while you may be jealous of the cult heads in your order, that is hardly a reason to smirk at their hard-earned positions and the amount of work it took to raise a cult to full strength. Beyond that, nobody is forcing you to pick up veneration or join a cult, so I don't see where your problem is, exactly.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
With five cult members, you'll need to offer about eleven fully esteemed items during the following day to come out ahead.
The skill itself claims that the bonus is bigger the more cult members there are, meaning you'll need to offer less to come out ahead... but never mind that bit. It seems you're under the assumption that the bonus is limited to 11 fully esteemed items when it is not. Absolutely all offerings throughout the following IG day (1 hour) are improved. If you offer 11 old fully esteemed items only, you will come out ahead. If you offer a single figurine with 30k esteem on it, you will be WELL ahead. I assume you understand where this is going?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.