Just throwing it out there, chopping totems doesn't hurt us (the characters) either. It's frustrating (to us, the players) that we can do close to nothing to stop invaders before they can chop down trees, and then again close to nothing from keeping them from chopping the growing tree over and over, if they're clever. Does this actually hurt us IC? Uh, no. Each just contributes a small amount of power which we have plentisimo of (even after just ascending someone).
Seriously, several players have gone down this road before, it just makes people hate you more, there is no rethinking involved. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what enemy statuses are for, anyways. I've even considered summarily enemying everyone from an enemy org over x might, so that guards have standing orders to protect our villages, PURITY IS TANTAMOUNT /forumrp /shrug.
If you wanted to RP getting unenemied, you shouldn't have tried the "You'll regret it" angle. Never a good move, especially to the chick who answers Magnagoran ultimatums (from much higher ranked and far more important IC characters) with a 'return to sender' severed head.
2014/12/13 22:30:01 - Ryboi > Kurut is not to be unenemied without consultation of the Moonhart circle. She is making constant threats against the Wilde and the Fae. We will not stand for someone who betrays us. (lol'd)
Considering it was Ryboi, it's par for the course. Were it me, I'd send a letter to whoever the leader of Serenwilde is (Niina), explaining what happened. If she doesn't respond in a year, start cutting trees.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm actually actively trying to resolve it peacefully, but I'm not going to get pushed around and just take it.
I am roleplaying my butt off with Ryboi and we have agreed that I'll get to present my case to the Seneschal when she logs on next.
I occasionally like to pretend that I'm replanting all of these herbs to attract bees, and might one day form an alliance with the bees and take over the Basin. Then we could have a wonderful tea party with plenty of honey and the best tea blends.
Tbh, it comes down to this: Any org is going to take the word of their citizen over the word of a stranger, enemy or not. If Ryboi wants you to remain and enemy and lies to keep you that way, there's nothing you can really do. If he has morals and tells the truth, you'll have it cleared up in short order.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Hilariously enough, I have the once-queen of seren chopping telling me to level the whole forest, and offering me her script and autowalker to do it.
But I don't want to fight Serenwilde unless I absolutely have to.
I occasionally like to pretend that I'm replanting all of these herbs to attract bees, and might one day form an alliance with the bees and take over the Basin. Then we could have a wonderful tea party with plenty of honey and the best tea blends.
So, this sort of thing happens constantly. Matter of fact, Shuyin just did the same thing to Kregarn.
Order of events: 1. Shuyin attacks and kills Serens defending Air. 2. Kregarn goes to defend Air and attacks Shuyin. 3. Shuyin enemies Kregarn for: Attacking innocent Gaudis on neutral ground. 4. Kregarn goes O.o.
Kreg said something to him after the fact and he's not going to change it. At this point, I'm probly going to get enemied to Gaudi anyway. They have a tendency to twist things to their purpose so what's the point in making a big deal (oocly and icly) out of it? Waste of my time and efforts. Also, why punish the whole for the lies of one? That's just dumb.
@Kurut's argument IC (to me) didn't make a whole lot of sense from a Serenwilder's perspective, anyways. When I was CL, if you legitimately didn't deserve the enemy status for some reason, I was game to remove it. There was this whole thing when Lavinya was enemied for attacking a Serenwilder who was defending Celest, and we ultimatly decided that it wasn't an appropriate enemy status. It was pretty fun to argue in the council, and got into some nice "What we stand for" RP. So it does happen.
I'd also complain about Shuyin characterising himself as innocent.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Tbh, it comes down to this: Any org is going to take the word of their citizen over the word of a stranger, enemy or not. If Ryboi wants you to remain and enemy and lies to keep you that way, there's nothing you can really do. If he has morals and tells the truth, you'll have it cleared up in short order.
So, this sort of thing happens constantly. Matter of fact, Shuyin just did the same thing to Kregarn.
Order of events: 1. Shuyin attacks and kills Serens defending Air. 2. Kregarn goes to defend Air and attacks Shuyin. 3. Shuyin enemies Kregarn for: Attacking innocent Gaudis on neutral ground. 4. Kregarn goes O.o.
Kreg said something to him after the fact and he's not going to change it. At this point, I'm probly going to get enemied to Gaudi anyway. They have a tendency to twist things to their purpose so what's the point in making a big deal (oocly and icly) out of it? Waste of my time and efforts. Also, why punish the whole for the lies of one? That's just dumb.
You are an enemy of the Holy Principality of Gaudiguch. You were enemied on 22nd Estar 376. You were enemied by Synkarin. The reason for your enemying: 'Killing my shadow too, poor thing'
After he, Mork and Munsia tried to kill celestia guards.
In other news, I really wish I could envoy new (utlility/non-affliction) skills in right now. I had some major inspiration for some new Stag mechanics that I'd love to use all these empty slots for.
Noticing some of my runes don't have afflictions, but are still usable in deathprophesy. Do these still count toward the final sling even though they don't afflict with anything? Or can I get some deathprophesies that are impossible to land because they're filled with non-aff runes?
I occasionally like to pretend that I'm replanting all of these herbs to attract bees, and might one day form an alliance with the bees and take over the Basin. Then we could have a wonderful tea party with plenty of honey and the best tea blends.
Never understood why people use enemy statuses like that. I guess there's some reason for it, but the one thing that ticked me off the most in MKO was when I created a character that was instantly enemied to one of the orgs. I was all... huhwha? Why? But anyway.
I'd like to hear the definition of neutral territory, personally.
@Shuyin - Air is most certainly -not- neutral territory to you, much the same way Fire isn't to me. It's enemy territory, fair and square. You choose to raid, you deal with whomever the defenders decide to call... or whomever shows up when the deathsights start popping.
@Kurut - I have no idea about your situation, so I will not make a remark there.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I don't know, I kind of like it. Especially with Avechna protecting everyone all over prime (Even enemies), enemy statuses mostly serve as a kill-on-sight order for guards, making them... actually have some semblance of achieving their supposed purpose. It wouldn't necessarily make sense for every org, but I can definitly see Serenwilde having a "whitelist" style of guards instead of the normal blacklist sort.
I don't know, I kind of like it. Especially with Avechna protecting everyone all over prime (Even enemies), enemy statuses mostly serve as a kill-on-sight order for guards, making them... actually have some semblance of achieving their supposed purpose. It wouldn't necessarily make sense for every org, but I can definitly see Serenwilde having a "whitelist" style of guards instead of the normal blacklist sort.
Then you get a couple of people who like to gank and go... "Hey, you're enemied, that's reason enough for me" and it stops being funny.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Those people would gank you anyways, more often than not Not to mention the thing I just said about Avechna protecting you most of the time.
Too bad we don't have a PK rule that you need some kind of interaction to gank people, that's how it works in some of the other games where orgs (sometimes) blanket enemy.
Stop getting your panties in a bunch over an enemy status. If you take part in combat, you should face consequences. If you're a member of an org at war with another org, you shouldn't be allowed to walk into their territory with little consequences. If you're both, then well, guess what, the consequences are fairly simple: being an enemy to other orgs.
"Earn" the status? I've argued before that affiliation alone is usually more than enough to "earn" enemy statuses. You're the citizen of a city that mine wants to... burn to the ground. Or you're the citizen of a city that wants to burn mine to the ground. By all roleplaying logic, none of those citizens should be allowed close to the cities they are at war with. We're not in carebear world, where the only conflict happens because you stole my cookie-print pajamas. We're in Lusternia, where we fight to kill each other using swords, axes, metal claws, spiked chains and bursts of pure elemental damage. The only reason we don't enemy for affiliation alone is because this is a game, so we aren't really out for blood. Inter-org RP is also a fun avenue to explore and all.
But you know what? Nothing makes me want to enemy a person more than the attitude that they are somehow so righteous and so good that no one should enemy them until they say so. Well, guess what? The person who has the privilege of pressing that button is me, not you. You don't get to decide when you want to become an enemy to me. I decide it based on your actions. You don't get to decide whether you're innocent or not based on your feelings. What, are you labouring under the impression that as long as you don't think your actions are harmful, then you shouldn't be enemied? Well, you better think again, because whether or not your actions are hostile to me is a decision I make, not you.
Lastly, about the consequences of enemying... the only real consequence is that you can't buy from the shops in their prime territory. Boo hoo, big god damn deal. Being ganked is something everyone should be wary of, enemy status or no. Being an enemy puts a target over your head, yes, but other than the Prime Material Plane, the whole of Lusternia is Free PK. Anyone can kill you for any reason, or none whatsoever, and the game does not fault them for it. Hitting someone you've never met, for no reason, is an acceptable way of starting a conflict. (I've mentioned this before elsewhere, but no one, not even non-combatants, are supposed to be safe. The only exception is if you're a newbie. Nothing else.) If you're a combatant, and you're complaining about enemying meaning that you'll be ganked? The only thing I can say is, you should probably quit being a combatant. If you're a combatant, you should be ready to get ganked at any time even when you're sitting at your nexus. That's what it means to be a combatant.
And lastly, Kurut, if you want to cut Elder trees, go ahead. If you want to be a jerk and a dickhead, go ahead. No one's stopping you, and no one can, and no one should anyway. You can be any kind of jerk and asshole in this game if you play it in-character properly, that's the point of a roleplaying game, afterall. But don't come to the forums crying and trying to paint a picture of yourself being a victim. If you want to be a victim, you can stay a victim. But if you want to be a jerk, then pick yourself up, wipe those ugly crocodile tears off, and be a jerk. Nothing turns my stomach like a person who acts like a victim while making threats. If your delicate psyche can't take the prospect of being the subject of hatred and scorn, then don't do those actions, simple enough. If you're pissed off enough to take an action that inspires so, then do it, and stop crying that you're somehow being "forced" into this. No one forced Ryboi to enemy you, so he's perfectly aware of the consequences of his actions - that you might get angry enough to grab his balls and give it a squeeze. And no one is forcing you to do it either, so get off your imaginary "I am the victim" high horse.
It seems that @Lerad thinks that you should be enemied and hunted and griefed for wanting to participate in defending while avoiding raids.
This seems flawed to me.
EDIT: Maybe Lerad is right. Maybe everyone everywhere should cast aside RP and the RP-centric aspect of defending things and just kill eachother all the time anywhere for no reason whatsoever. Maybe we should lift the Avenger protection on prime and just wallow in a giant bloodbath, because after all, if you participate in anything even remotely competitive, you are a horrible person and deserve all the essence loss from constantly dying.
EDIT2: While we're at it, let's apply Lerad's logic. Enemy everyone from every enemy org, from fresh newbies to old noncoms. After all, why have any RP? They obviously deserve it.
I occasionally like to pretend that I'm replanting all of these herbs to attract bees, and might one day form an alliance with the bees and take over the Basin. Then we could have a wonderful tea party with plenty of honey and the best tea blends.
My warriors are going into combat for a justified cause. They're going into cleanse the taint off the unfortunately, sadly, tragically once-great Elemental Plane of Earth (or Nil, or wherever). But wait, guys, look! There's a person standing in our way. He doesn't look frien- TO ARMS! He's attacking us! Our mission is jeopardized! Someone send a courier back to the Seneschal! We are facing resistance! An abomination is trying to preserve the horrors and tragedy of the taint! We need reinforcements!
Oh, by the way, tell that courier to relay the message back home, this person isn't an enemy.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you're defending as a combatant, getting enemied is not unreasonable in my eyes, yes.
Sane people don't enemy those who bear no ill will to their Organization. Smart people generally avoid this too, as making more enemies than necessary is generally bad for business.
But I guess nobody ever claimed Lerad was sane... or smart.
I occasionally like to pretend that I'm replanting all of these herbs to attract bees, and might one day form an alliance with the bees and take over the Basin. Then we could have a wonderful tea party with plenty of honey and the best tea blends.
Also, I've already mentioned: the only direct consequence of enemying is no access to that org's Prime shops. It most certainly does not exclude RP.
Talan is Lerad's in-game mother. Talan, as a player, also disagrees with my arguments about enemying. Talan is an enemy to Viravain and Glomdoring. Lerad is an enemy to Hallifax, and possibly the Divine she serves (I forgot whose Order she's in). We've RP'd. We even RP'd (shortly, of course) in the middle of combat via tells.
Tell me again, enemying means no RP?
Edit: Oh wait, Talan isn't an enemy to Viravain. Damn, my argument has been slightly undermined. Need to find someone else who has all the enemyings...
Enemying also forces a hefty sum of gold out of your pocket and headache into your daily life if (And this will happen eventually), alliances shift and you end up having to protect the same jerkfaces who enemied you.
I avoid enemy statuses because I don't want to get caught up in the political nonsense, I just want to participate in defending (Because yay being useful!) and avoid giving other people more headache than they already have.
But do go on. I'm a terrible person for this.
I occasionally like to pretend that I'm replanting all of these herbs to attract bees, and might one day form an alliance with the bees and take over the Basin. Then we could have a wonderful tea party with plenty of honey and the best tea blends.
Comments
Seriously, several players have gone down this road before, it just makes people hate you more, there is no rethinking involved. You have a fundamental misunderstanding of what enemy statuses are for, anyways. I've even considered summarily enemying everyone from an enemy org over x might, so that guards have standing orders to protect our villages, PURITY IS TANTAMOUNT /forumrp /shrug.
circle. She is making constant threats against the Wilde and the Fae. We will not stand for someone
who betrays us. (lol'd)
Considering it was Ryboi, it's par for the course. Were it me, I'd send a letter to whoever the leader of Serenwilde is (Niina), explaining what happened. If she doesn't respond in a year, start cutting trees.
I am roleplaying my butt off with Ryboi and we have agreed that I'll get to present my case to the Seneschal when she logs on next.
Tbh, it comes down to this: Any org is going to take the word of their citizen over the word of a stranger, enemy or not. If Ryboi wants you to remain and enemy and lies to keep you that way, there's nothing you can really do. If he has morals and tells the truth, you'll have it cleared up in short order.
But I don't want to fight Serenwilde unless I absolutely have to.
Order of events:
1. Shuyin attacks and kills Serens defending Air.
2. Kregarn goes to defend Air and attacks Shuyin.
3. Shuyin enemies Kregarn for: Attacking innocent Gaudis on neutral ground.
4. Kregarn goes O.o.
Kreg said something to him after the fact and he's not going to change it. At this point, I'm probly going to get enemied to Gaudi anyway. They have a tendency to twist things to their purpose so what's the point in making a big deal (oocly and icly) out of it? Waste of my time and efforts. Also, why punish the whole for the lies of one? That's just dumb.
I'd also complain about Shuyin characterising himself as innocent.
You are an enemy of the Holy Principality of Gaudiguch.
You were enemied on 22nd Estar 376.
You were enemied by Synkarin.
The reason for your enemying: 'Killing my shadow too, poor thing'
After he, Mork and Munsia tried to kill celestia guards.
Signature!
I use them so my ndb highlights them red to keep track of who needs ganking.
I'd like to hear the definition of neutral territory, personally.
@Shuyin - Air is most certainly -not- neutral territory to you, much the same way Fire isn't to me. It's enemy territory, fair and square. You choose to raid, you deal with whomever the defenders decide to call... or whomever shows up when the deathsights start popping.
@Kurut - I have no idea about your situation, so I will not make a remark there.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I don't know, I kind of like it. Especially with Avechna protecting everyone all over prime (Even enemies), enemy statuses mostly serve as a kill-on-sight order for guards, making them... actually have some semblance of achieving their supposed purpose. It wouldn't necessarily make sense for every org, but I can definitly see Serenwilde having a "whitelist" style of guards instead of the normal blacklist sort.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Both are enemies of Gaudi, one of which is the infamous Hammer of Nature.
Stop getting your panties in a bunch over an enemy status. If you take part in combat, you should face consequences. If you're a member of an org at war with another org, you shouldn't be allowed to walk into their territory with little consequences. If you're both, then well, guess what, the consequences are fairly simple: being an enemy to other orgs.
"Earn" the status? I've argued before that affiliation alone is usually more than enough to "earn" enemy statuses. You're the citizen of a city that mine wants to... burn to the ground. Or you're the citizen of a city that wants to burn mine to the ground. By all roleplaying logic, none of those citizens should be allowed close to the cities they are at war with. We're not in carebear world, where the only conflict happens because you stole my cookie-print pajamas. We're in Lusternia, where we fight to kill each other using swords, axes, metal claws, spiked chains and bursts of pure elemental damage. The only reason we don't enemy for affiliation alone is because this is a game, so we aren't really out for blood. Inter-org RP is also a fun avenue to explore and all.
But you know what? Nothing makes me want to enemy a person more than the attitude that they are somehow so righteous and so good that no one should enemy them until they say so. Well, guess what? The person who has the privilege of pressing that button is me, not you. You don't get to decide when you want to become an enemy to me. I decide it based on your actions. You don't get to decide whether you're innocent or not based on your feelings. What, are you labouring under the impression that as long as you don't think your actions are harmful, then you shouldn't be enemied? Well, you better think again, because whether or not your actions are hostile to me is a decision I make, not you.
Lastly, about the consequences of enemying... the only real consequence is that you can't buy from the shops in their prime territory. Boo hoo, big god damn deal. Being ganked is something everyone should be wary of, enemy status or no. Being an enemy puts a target over your head, yes, but other than the Prime Material Plane, the whole of Lusternia is Free PK. Anyone can kill you for any reason, or none whatsoever, and the game does not fault them for it. Hitting someone you've never met, for no reason, is an acceptable way of starting a conflict. (I've mentioned this before elsewhere, but no one, not even non-combatants, are supposed to be safe. The only exception is if you're a newbie. Nothing else.) If you're a combatant, and you're complaining about enemying meaning that you'll be ganked? The only thing I can say is, you should probably quit being a combatant. If you're a combatant, you should be ready to get ganked at any time even when you're sitting at your nexus. That's what it means to be a combatant.
And lastly, Kurut, if you want to cut Elder trees, go ahead. If you want to be a jerk and a dickhead, go ahead. No one's stopping you, and no one can, and no one should anyway. You can be any kind of jerk and asshole in this game if you play it in-character properly, that's the point of a roleplaying game, afterall. But don't come to the forums crying and trying to paint a picture of yourself being a victim. If you want to be a victim, you can stay a victim. But if you want to be a jerk, then pick yourself up, wipe those ugly crocodile tears off, and be a jerk. Nothing turns my stomach like a person who acts like a victim while making threats. If your delicate psyche can't take the prospect of being the subject of hatred and scorn, then don't do those actions, simple enough. If you're pissed off enough to take an action that inspires so, then do it, and stop crying that you're somehow being "forced" into this. No one forced Ryboi to enemy you, so he's perfectly aware of the consequences of his actions - that you might get angry enough to grab his balls and give it a squeeze. And no one is forcing you to do it either, so get off your imaginary "I am the victim" high horse.
This seems flawed to me.
EDIT2: While we're at it, let's apply Lerad's logic. Enemy everyone from every enemy org, from fresh newbies to old noncoms. After all, why have any RP? They obviously deserve it.
Oh, by the way, tell that courier to relay the message back home, this person isn't an enemy.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If you're defending as a combatant, getting enemied is not unreasonable in my eyes, yes.
Talan is Lerad's in-game mother. Talan, as a player, also disagrees with my arguments about enemying. Talan is an enemy to Viravain and Glomdoring. Lerad is an enemy to Hallifax, and possibly the Divine she serves (I forgot whose Order she's in). We've RP'd. We even RP'd (shortly, of course) in the middle of combat via tells.
Tell me again, enemying means no RP?
Edit: Oh wait, Talan isn't an enemy to Viravain. Damn, my argument has been slightly undermined. Need to find someone else who has all the enemyings...
I avoid enemy statuses because I don't want to get caught up in the political nonsense, I just want to participate in defending (Because yay being useful!) and avoid giving other people more headache than they already have.