@Cadica: Thank you for that reply, might I ask what your current cutting (assuming Blademaster) damage is right now?
If you don't have Bodyscan to see this, that's fine, but I'm looking to put some context to your damage concerns. I appreciate the issue regarding critical strikes at sub 90 is a problem, and it may be something for us to address. However it's something I don't want to touch until everyone is dealing the damage they should be doing.
When I fresh log in the game my cutting is 3, with all my buffs active it is 6 (keep in mind I have a great rune of cutting enhancement, a Great Rune of the Cosmic Knight and a Great Rune of the Cosmic Champion on each blade, and a Great Rune of Prodigious Prowess as well to increase my damage, and am an Igasho with racial blade bonus and am transcendent blademaster).
Again, my bashing is slower but probably no worse off than most others have experienced in terms of bashing taking longer. I have a lot of nice artifacts to help me out, and again, I'm completely fine waiting on knighthood changes. I feel like ultimately I will be much better off when I finally hit 100 and with the upcoming knighthood changes so I'm not complaining, I'm excited!
@Baelor 4/5 of us had whips (three divinus and one fire) and the last was using one of the Nightkiss attacks. Kiwis, kirigamis all around. Just reporting anecdotal evidence. I expected to take damage. I was just surprised it killed me when it previously wasn't an issue due to the 15-20k hp I was capable of stacking. Not complaining, mind you, I recognize that level of hp isn't really healthy for the game, just means I'll have to be a bit more choosy when I use it is all. Wouldn't mind seeing UNFURL or UNBEAR STANDARD be a thing so I can drop it without having to leave squad.
@Baelor 4/5 of us had whips (three divinus and one fire) and the last was using one of the Nightkiss attacks. Kiwis, kirigamis all around. Just reporting anecdotal evidence. I expected to take damage. I was just surprised it killed me when it previously wasn't an issue due to the 15-20k hp I was capable of stacking. Not complaining, mind you, I recognize that level of hp isn't really healthy for the game, just means I'll have to be a bit more choosy when I use it is all. Wouldn't mind seeing UNFURL or UNBEAR STANDARD be a thing so I can drop it without having to leave squad.
BEAR NOTHING is the syntax, if memory serves.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
1) Over time. Sipping/sparkle/scroll weren't able to keep up.
2) Had drink up, believe hp regeneration was at 10
3) Nope.
I'll get my exact values shortly.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
For the record, whips outpace bashing attacks now on astral 100% of the time. Against mitrans with moderate weakness to fire and divinus, I used destruction at 12/13 buff level and Kethaera used divinus whip at 2ish/10. She ended up with 100+ corpses, I was somewhere in the 60s. So it's a sizeable gap.
That also seems odd, if I remember rightly, the damage of whips is equal to base damage destruction. I might be wrong about this, but I'll check with the coding team.
It may be possible that you softened them up, and she snuck in with the killing blow, but that's unlikely.
There's certainly room for extra mitigation, health regeneration and damage from what you've given, so the scenario you've given is something I'm actually happy about how it's turned out.
If you were struggling with being on Astral alone, or doing the gutter with those numbers, I'd be a lot more concerned! Still taking four people under standard bearer isn't something the average player can do, pushing for everything under the new system is the kind of outlier we want to limit at. Gone are the days of large hunting parties of 10+ with one person taking all the hits, sorry!
As an aside, @Baelor, someone mentioned this before, but BODYSCAN probably should be brought down lower in its respective skillset if a majority of our conversions are hinging on this measurement system.
It would help cases like @Urdnot to be able to better pinpoint out where they're lacking and what could best be suggested - especially in this in-between place we're at with the racial OH going in, but not the warrior OH.
Not that this has much of a bearing, but why is it I'm seeing a lot of the issues particularly arising only from the warriors? Are monks just not encountering it yet (though they're on the same current system, so I dunno how that could be), or are they just waiting?
It looks like a potential problem in the Urdnot case is that weapon accuracy is currently based on dex, for which the base value of 12 is currently being substituted, and in my testing there's a rather lot of missing going on. I'm increasing the default dex to 16 as with the other stats, and hopefully that will make a difference. The damage per-hit isn't terrible, but that's meaningless if the attacks aren't actually hitting.
Regarding extra mitigation, I've sunk a not inconsiderable sum into this game over time. I won't be buying the resistance or damage enhancement artifacts. Nekotai split damage means 1k credits (pass), and without knowing the types of damage that are coming out from mobs, I find it would be a pointless game of collect 'em all to maximize that. The marginal increase offered by both of those just aren't worth the current values to me. Again, I'm not upset I died. My bad for standarding for a group of five total people (including me) without seeing what level of damage is being output.
My suggestion? Gimme numbers on how hard I actually hit a mob/player when I hit them. Let me know the damage type that I'm being hit with. Then we'll talk about runes.
It looks like a potential problem in the Urdnot case is that weapon accuracy is currently based on dex, for which the base value of 12 is currently being substituted, and in my testing there's a rather lot of missing going on. I'm increasing the default dex to 16 as with the other stats, and hopefully that will make a difference. The damage per-hit isn't terrible, but that's meaningless if the attacks aren't actually hitting.
That makes perfect sense! I've been missing a lot despite using Oil of Sharpness and I just rationalized it away thinking I was only noticing more misses because now that my Igasho balance malus is gone, I'm attacking more quickly. I'm glad to know it's been fixed, thanks!
I should note when I was referring to mitigation, I meant actual abilities (some are order related) not artifacts. Though granted artifacts will also make a great difference.
I was just giving a reply to your feedback so people can see what we consider to be reaching the higher end of player capability. It's really useful when people push the limits by stacking everything under the sun, it lets us know if we've got it right at the top end. Of course, we also need to get it right for the average person who isn't able to go in armed to the teeth like a one person juggernaut, so feedback is necessary at all levels.
What is clear, is the gulf has come down between the bottom and top ends, and that is excellent if only for the reason that when designing future content, we can do so with a much larger portion of the playerbase in mind, and not being worried about making it too easy or too hard.
What, abilities specifically, outside of order/avatar/VA powers? Nightkiss, drink and garb up from Night, bond nature from totems for all those buffs, regeneration/boost/weathering/vitality...surge isn't needed since it provides an hp buff I don't need. So, basically, more mitigation via shrines/VA? Out of curiosity, has anyone tried out icewynd since the changes? Curious to see what that's like for folks. Might have to do it myself.
I'm also confused as to why master weapon is supposed to give a 6/10 buff whereas a melder has absolutely no skill-based damage buff. Right now for my primary damage type I'm sitting at:
1/5 tattoo 2/7 curio 2/10 TF 3/13 Arti
Meaning I'm effectively at 8 buff without anything within my skillset providing a damage boost? Why would warriors need an 18% damage buff from their weapon choice when a mage gets 0? Are there plans to address mage damage a bit? Possibly tie it to staff tuning and while at it, provide druids with the option to tune their cudgel damage so they can benefit from a similar buff?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I would like to agree with Viynain's comment. In the old method one could simply look at their stats, armour and weapons and figure out where they needed a bump. Now everything is behind BODYSCAN, and really it should be a skill that everyone can easily access to see what they are lacking or not lacking as the case may be. Perhaps even moving it to combat right beside WEAPONPROBE.
I would like to agree with Viynain's comment. In the old method one could simply look at their stats, armour and weapons and figure out where they needed a bump. Now everything is behind BODYSCAN, and really it should be a skill that everyone can easily access to see what they are lacking or not lacking as the case may be. Perhaps even moving it to combat right beside WEAPONPROBE.
The original proposal was to move it to the same level as weaponprobe, yes.
EDIT: Clarification, seven lessons into the skillset.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
It looks like a potential problem in the Urdnot case is that weapon accuracy is currently based on dex, for which the base value of 12 is currently being substituted, and in my testing there's a rather lot of missing going on. I'm increasing the default dex to 16 as with the other stats, and hopefully that will make a difference. The damage per-hit isn't terrible, but that's meaningless if the attacks aren't actually hitting.
It would be better to just reduce the miss rate (or remove it entirely!) than to up dex, imo. By upping dex you are also giving everyone a buff to stance / parry (it's not solely related to miss rate).
What, abilities specifically, outside of order/avatar/VA powers? Nightkiss, drink and garb up from Night, bond nature from totems for all those buffs, regeneration/boost/weathering/vitality...surge isn't needed since it provides an hp buff I don't need. So, basically, more mitigation via shrines/VA? Out of curiosity, has anyone tried out icewynd since the changes? Curious to see what that's like for folks. Might have to do it myself.
I don't want to throw a comprehensive list at players, but healing aura is one example off the top of my head.
I would suggest making Bodyscan (basic) a 0 lesson cost skill - once we could see stats before even entering the portal. Add in bodyscan full later if you still want it to cost lessons, but at least the basic bodyscan will give everyone at least a brief outline of their damage, resistances and regeneration.
It certainly feels like I'm missing a lot more. Does agility affect monk weapon accuracy too? I'll have to check if I get more accurate after the agility change.
But on that subject, @Unzareh also complained about hunting being harder. She's the only one I've heard from. She specifically complained that hunting mutts, which run each time they're hit, now took 3 hits to kill instead of 2. This is a completely different scenario to Urdnot, and is a problem specific to monks, wherein, our full combo is equivalent to one hit from a normal person, but for mobs that run, we only connect with one blow, dealing far less damage. Not something that needs to be changed, it's just a penalty we get for being monks.
As for why there is less monk complaining, monks tended to be races with high dex but strength lower than 16. Which means, I would theorise, that while we may be missing more, we are actually dealing more damage when we do hit. Certainly, this seems to be the case for high-level monks.
Except, Unzareh who is below 90, says she's dealing less damage now vs mutts.
It looks like a potential problem in the Urdnot case is that weapon accuracy is currently based on dex, for which the base value of 12 is currently being substituted, and in my testing there's a rather lot of missing going on. I'm increasing the default dex to 16 as with the other stats, and hopefully that will make a difference. The damage per-hit isn't terrible, but that's meaningless if the attacks aren't actually hitting.
Miss-rate from warriors is being removed entirely though, right? Right!?
It looks like a potential problem in the Urdnot
case is that weapon accuracy is currently based on dex, for which the
base value of 12 is currently being substituted, and in my testing
there's a rather lot of missing going on. I'm increasing the default dex
to 16 as with the other stats, and hopefully that will make a
difference. The damage per-hit isn't terrible, but that's meaningless if
the attacks aren't actually hitting.
It would be better to just reduce the miss rate (or remove it entirely!)
than to up dex, imo. By upping dex you are also giving everyone a buff
to stance / parry (it's not solely related to miss rate).
It certainly feels like I'm missing a lot more. Does agility affect monk weapon accuracy too? I'll have to check if I get more accurate after the agility change.
But on that subject, @Unzareh also complained about hunting being harder. She's the only one I've heard from. She specifically complained that hunting mutts, which run each time they're hit, now took 3 hits to kill instead of 2. This is a completely different scenario to Urdnot, and is a problem specific to monks, wherein, our full combo is equivalent to one hit from a normal person, but for mobs that run, we only connect with one blow, dealing far less damage. Not something that needs to be changed, it's just a penalty we get for being monks.
As for why there is less monk complaining, monks tended to be races with high dex but strength lower than 16. Which means, I would theorise, that while we may be missing more, we are actually dealing more damage when we do hit. Certainly, this seems to be the case for high-level monks.
Except, Unzareh who is below 90, says she's dealing less damage now vs mutts.
I've missed several forms entirely, actually, like 3 misses in a row! And things resistant to blunt? They take forever and a half to kill! There's a reason I haven't been hunting very much recently, it's because things take a lot longer to kill now and I've been missing more. It sucks so bad, I hate this overhaul race thing.
I've missed several forms entirely, actually, like 3 misses in a row! And things resistant to blunt? They take forever and a half to kill! There's a reason I haven't been hunting very much recently, it's because things take a lot longer to kill now and I've been missing more. It sucks so bad, I hate this overhaul race thing.
Is the miss rate really THAT horrible? I mean people used to play the 8 dex tae'dae and 10 dex dracnari as warriors/monks and I haven't heard any issues with either up til now. I'd say if it's such a huge deal it might be worth looking at the base code that causes missing rather than boosting yet another 'stat' to 16. Would probably work out better in the long run.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Comments
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
It may be possible that you softened them up, and she snuck in with the killing blow, but that's unlikely.
I was just giving a reply to your feedback so people can see what we consider to be reaching the higher end of player capability. It's really useful when people push the limits by stacking everything under the sun, it lets us know if we've got it right at the top end. Of course, we also need to get it right for the average person who isn't able to go in armed to the teeth like a one person juggernaut, so feedback is necessary at all levels.
What is clear, is the gulf has come down between the bottom and top ends, and that is excellent if only for the reason that when designing future content, we can do so with a much larger portion of the playerbase in mind, and not being worried about making it too easy or too hard.
1/5 tattoo
2/7 curio
2/10 TF
3/13 Arti
Meaning I'm effectively at 8 buff without anything within my skillset providing a damage boost? Why would warriors need an 18% damage buff from their weapon choice when a mage gets 0? Are there plans to address mage damage a bit? Possibly tie it to staff tuning and while at it, provide druids with the option to tune their cudgel damage so they can benefit from a similar buff?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
EDIT: Clarification, seven lessons into the skillset.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
But on that subject, @Unzareh also complained about hunting being harder. She's the only one I've heard from. She specifically complained that hunting mutts, which run each time they're hit, now took 3 hits to kill instead of 2. This is a completely different scenario to Urdnot, and is a problem specific to monks, wherein, our full combo is equivalent to one hit from a normal person, but for mobs that run, we only connect with one blow, dealing far less damage. Not something that needs to be changed, it's just a penalty we get for being monks.
As for why there is less monk complaining, monks tended to be races with high dex but strength lower than 16. Which means, I would theorise, that while we may be missing more, we are actually dealing more damage when we do hit. Certainly, this seems to be the case for high-level monks.
Except, Unzareh who is below 90, says she's dealing less damage now vs mutts.
+1
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.