It can be useful to see what theories people claim they're following too. I like discussion and lynch votes getting thrown around day 1, and pushing for early lynches can be a way to get information later.
at the same time I agree the rhetoric can get a bit heated and rehashing the same thing repeatedly gets dull.
The problem with night zero is that it means some people won't actually get a chance to play at all. Which is sad.
Othero probably just drank the wine he swiped on his way down here. I'm sure there's more wine somewhere.
Honestly, I disagree with the notion that it's during the night information is gained. Night 0 starts favour scum, and leads to someone not being allowed to play. Night is when power-roles and mafia kills play out. For anyone without a night power, there's no real difference. If doctor protects someone and there's still a kill that night. They really know nothing. If roleblocker blocks someone, and there's still a kill that night. They really know nothing. The only ones who are guaranteed to get information is investigative roles, and the information they gain can be inconclusive, or even false thanks to busdrivers or insanities.
The only thing certain is what we say, when we say it. Sure, there's no guarantee that what we're saying is true, but there's a reason we've got the "no editting" rule.
Which leads me into why I think the first days tend to be silent. Because perversely, a game that relies on talking and analysis, punishes those who talk. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court, err, later during the game. The more you say, the more you have that can be used against you. Assuming you haven't been stabbed during the night because those who talk can also lead the town in new directions.
Which makes me want to digress over the meta-value of the doctor. More than anything, doctors are important because they help incentivize the mafia into targetting the more quiet people, as they are far less likely to be under any kind of protection. Be it from watchers or doctors or rolestoppers.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Now that my hangover has finally said au revoir, I can concentrate for long enough to catch up.
Some good points raised about pre-empting the first night phase (so long as people are talking), but I'm still on board with my drunken vote none. For me day one speculation while it can be useful, is more often wild and aimless. Too many people with differing play styles, and no concrete information to go on. Deaths reveal information on the powers and factions that may be in play, and from there we may start to connect some dots. While we may be in France, je ne veux pas jouer roulette with an uninformed Day 1 lynching.
Yarith isn't an ENTIRELY uninformed lynching. Like I said before, anyone who wants to end a day without giving the Town a shot at taking out a member of the scum is worthy of suspicion. So far, that's Yarith, Chirbo and you Ushaara, though I'm inclined to chalk your vote more up to drunkeness than any intentional maliciousness.
Correct me if I'm wrong but the true French have the majority in this game as well as almost all mafia set ups, don't they? Regardless of what roles we may or may not have, we have a much higher chance of lynching an innocent member of the court? I hardly think that avoiding the high probability of killing an innocent is malicious, though correct me if I am understanding wrong.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Correct me if I'm wrong but the true French have the majority in this game as well as almost all mafia set ups, don't they? Regardless of what roles we may or may not have, we have a much higher chance of lynching an innocent member of the court? I hardly think that avoiding the high probability of killing an innocent is malicious, though correct me if I am understanding wrong.
The trouble with this argument is that it's true up until the mafia have the majority, at which point the mafia win.
If you're at a point where a mislynch is going to give the mafia the majority, you're at a point where the odds of lynching a mafia member is at least even with the odds of lynching an innocent person. Nobody except for mafia wants to pass up the chance to lynch mafia, but when that chance is most likely not going to be mafia, it's a bit cloudy about whether it's the best course of action or not.
Assuming 4 mafia of the 16, we have a 1 in 4 chance of lynching one of them. This means we have a 3 in 4 chance of lynching someone innocent. Just saying. Lynching an innocent person really only helps the mafia. Sure we'll find out some facts about said lynchee, but it's all dependent on what they say and no one is probably going to blow their role this early. This also assumes there aren't any third party types, in which case that percentage would go up. One 3rd party would increase it to just under 1:3 (5/16). Anyway, I'm with Celina, I don't really want to delve in this discussion. I'm just saying it's not that scummy to not want to lynch day 0. Plus being an even number means we'll still have the same number of possible mis-lynches before we lose tomorrow.
The biggest thing to accomplish today is really get people talking. Any conclusions will be pure speculation but the more people talk, the easier it is to catch someone in a lie as time progresses.
I don't think anyone that's been voted for is particularly guilty. Tekora's explained his inelegant reasons for wanting to lynch (it's a big vulgar really), but not mafia-ish. Who doesn't wish they drank all the wine like Othero.
Who hasn't introduced themselves yet or been chatty? It is a shame Othero drank all the wine this early, could loosen up some of the more high-strung ones.
I'm less concerned about the alcohol situation so much as the humidity down here. It's awfully clammy and uncomfortable.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
[Quick note that I'll be pretty unavailable most of tomorrow until the evening! So in the unlikely event someone is lynched/a no lynch is agreed upon by then, please bear with me until I can make the necessary posts.]
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Sorry I've been a bit quiet, I'm back home so back on the computer. I don't like posting anything but small snippets on my phone.
I used to always be the sort of person who was an aggressive player, pushing for a day one lynch to see how people reacted and how they voted, as well as hopefully snapping up a filthy traitor. However I found that people were starting to see it as scummy and everyone was more interested in the neutral day one because it is -safer-. If you're mafia no one will think you're gunning for innocents, if you're innocent you're not going to draw undue attention to yourself or make people think you are guilty as sin for being lynch happy.
It might be a safe way to play, but I don't think it is necessarily in the best interest of the nobles. We need information if we're going to root out the traitors. We need to find them before they pick us off. Six days of close shaves can be very revealing, for those being voted for and those voting. As a general rule I tend to have suspicions for those who just want to get to the night phase, especially those who want to get there the peaceful way.
You're obviously a bad guy, trying to stir the public into a hasty lynching!
As are you.
/pearls
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
We're seeing a lot of aggression without much reasoning. I'm wary of these empty votes for the sake of 'seeing what shakes out' as it stands, and votes with no reasoning at all either for no lynch or for someone, are inherently suspicious.
That said, I'm also not sure the spies would be willing or foolish enough to start a claim on a no-lynch without someone else having made overtures in that direction. This leaves me suspicious of Ushaara and Chirbo specifically for hopping onto the no-lynch without much of an argument, and Chirbo especially for jumping back off so quickly with a flimsy defense.
Being perfectly honest, I only noticed Yarith's initial vote the following day, and my own reasoning for vote none on Day 1 is as above.
But this is perfect example of why Day 1 is the worst. Anything and everything you do can be read as suspicious behaviour. Deflecting attention? Suspicious. Talking? Suspicious. Not talking? Suspicious. Voting? Suspicious. Not voting? Suspicious. If the mafia know that typical reaction is that people will jump on those who join a vote on Day 1, as Tek did above, the sensible thing for them is to not vote and let the day time out.
In any case, sticking with my vote none as I'm sceptical that there will be much more information to gain in this day phase and would rather get to a game phase where there is some real information on the board than wait a week for a time out.
While I am definitely in the lynch on Day 1 camp I'm not going to regurgitate same arguments that come up too often in mafia games. I can see that we're not going to get anywhere so I'll Unvote and Vote Nobody
I like Day 1s. The only people that we know have more knowledge than others are the scum (and maybe masons if exist). People tend to gravitate towards what they know and show early forms of patterns that prove useful later on in the game.
I don't see how anyone after Day 1 can be considered suspicious outside of severe stupidity. Every post is just a referencing point for later days, unfortunately some discussion devolved into mafia day one theorybating that got everyone tight.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited January 2016
There are a multitude of valid perspectives on how to play out the first day. For whatever reason, the topic is as contentious as Team Edward vs Team Jacob or whether or not Donald Trump would make a good president. No idea why, but having been through this once before, I promise you that this conversation will send us all into an endless, pedantic void of wikipedia quotes and theory crafting.
I will say this: a no vote on day 0 does not mean we just want to rely on powers to win.
I will also say that if the intent is to discover bandwagons and what not by forcing a day 0 lynch, you are actually undermining the entire purpose by explaining to everyone that you are going to lynch people based on their decisions today. By explaining how you will vote moving forward, or what will make others suspicious based on voting trends today, you are giving away your hand and telling the dirty bad folks to alter their gameplay. Can a day one lynch work out in our favor? Sure. Does it work as intended if you tell everyone what is going to make them suspicious? Not really.
Not so say I'm entirely opposed to a first day lynch. Just not without someone deserving it to some extent.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Shit I edited
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Sorry, force of habit. Don't modvig me. I just added the line "Can a day one lynch work out in our favor? Sure. Does it work as intended if you tell everyone what is going to make them suspicious? Not really."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I'll let it slide this time. You dirty editor you. [-X
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Honestly? At this stage, no one is speaking anyway, so it's not like we get a crapton of information from this day one anyway. While I agree that, in general, day one lynches can certainly bring information, it also means we all have to get behind someone to lynch, which (I feel) isn't exactly likely to happen anyway.
That said, I'm content with waiting it out if that's what everyone else wants to do. I really haven't seen any compelling arguments for voting for anyone yet anyway.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Fronch Vote Count Update:
Lavinya - Chirbo (1)
Yarith - Tekora (1)
None - Yarith, Ushaara, Falmiis (3)
In the kingdom of Fronce, it currently takes the word of 9 nobles to sentence and execute a member of the court.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I am sort of loathe to do it but as people do seem hesitant to talk and most of the talking has been about if lynching or not on day 1 is a good idea (sorry, probably my fault for bringing it up) I'm just going to Vote: None
Comments
at the same time I agree the rhetoric can get a bit heated and rehashing the same thing repeatedly gets dull.
The problem with night zero is that it means some people won't actually get a chance to play at all. Which is sad.
Othero probably just drank the wine he swiped on his way down here. I'm sure there's more wine somewhere.
The only thing certain is what we say, when we say it. Sure, there's no guarantee that what we're saying is true, but there's a reason we've got the "no editting" rule.
Which leads me into why I think the first days tend to be silent. Because perversely, a game that relies on talking and analysis, punishes those who talk. Anything you say can and will be used against you in court, err, later during the game. The more you say, the more you have that can be used against you. Assuming you haven't been stabbed during the night because those who talk can also lead the town in new directions.
Which makes me want to digress over the meta-value of the doctor. More than anything, doctors are important because they help incentivize the mafia into targetting the more quiet people, as they are far less likely to be under any kind of protection. Be it from watchers or doctors or rolestoppers.
Some good points raised about pre-empting the first night phase (so long as people are talking), but I'm still on board with my drunken vote none. For me day one speculation while it can be useful, is more often wild and aimless. Too many people with differing play styles, and no concrete information to go on. Deaths reveal information on the powers and factions that may be in play, and from there we may start to connect some dots. While we may be in France, je ne veux pas jouer roulette with an uninformed Day 1 lynching.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
/pearls
That said, I'm also not sure the spies would be willing or foolish enough to start a claim on a no-lynch without someone else having made overtures in that direction. This leaves me suspicious of Ushaara and Chirbo specifically for hopping onto the no-lynch without much of an argument, and Chirbo especially for jumping back off so quickly with a flimsy defense.
Doight de soupçon: Ushaara et Chirbo
But this is perfect example of why Day 1 is the worst. Anything and everything you do can be read as suspicious behaviour. Deflecting attention? Suspicious. Talking? Suspicious. Not talking? Suspicious. Voting? Suspicious. Not voting? Suspicious. If the mafia know that typical reaction is that people will jump on those who join a vote on Day 1, as Tek did above, the sensible thing for them is to not vote and let the day time out.
In any case, sticking with my vote none as I'm sceptical that there will be much more information to gain in this day phase and would rather get to a game phase where there is some real information on the board than wait a week for a time out.
That said, I'm content with waiting it out if that's what everyone else wants to do. I really haven't seen any compelling arguments for voting for anyone yet anyway.