Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I don't instantly reject any report, context is always important. I the want to change it from combat to utility, I might not be opposed. I suppose my assumption is that the skill would be reworked to be functional but similar to it's current state rather then totally replaced.
Minus the group pre nerd wolf idea. Everyone has to suffer if communes ate a nerf specifically because of fearaura. >:(
Quality of life changes for dreamweaving mote crafting
Problem:
The mechanic for crafting dreamweaving motes has significant issues compared to other skills which consume items on use. A dreamweaver can easily go through dozens of motes in a fight,
particularly if they are a druid who is not their group's primary melder. However, unlike Runes and Tarot, both of whom have supplies crafted from cheap resources easily obtainable with gold, Dreamweaving requires a unit of power for each mote crafted. Other repetitive processes that have intensive power costs, such as enchanting, lorecrafting, or carving totems, offer users the option to draw this energy from powerstones, but dreamweaving cannot because mote
crafting must be done while in dreamform. Because the power for mote weaving is drawn directly from the dreamweaver, dreamweaving also does not have a batch
production syntax equivalent to Tarot or Runes' INSCRIBE [#] RUNE WITH
[type]. Consequently, every few days a dreamweaver must take significant time out of
playing to stay in dreamform crafting motes one at a time, during which they cannot communicate with anyone on the physical plane and consume
hundreds of power in the process.
Solutions:
1) Allow dream mote crafting to be done while in physical form, add syntax to craft multiple motes at once, and allow mote crafting to draw from powerstones. Dreamweaving motes can still be cast and interacted with while in physical form, so there is roleplay justification for being able to craft them while in physical form as well. Shifting the power cost to powerstones would bring the expense of motes more in line with the price of blank runes and cards.
2) Keep dream mote crafting in dreambody only, but remove the power cost and add syntax to craft multiple motes at once. There is a unique flavor in making the dreamweaver enter dreamform in order to produce motes. Adding the syntax to craft multiple motes at once and removing the need to collect a large amount of essence afterward would fix the most tedious part of the process while preserving an interesting feature of dreamweaving lore. Other abilities in dreamweaving demonstrate that dreamweavers can manipulate the dreamscape without requiring power to produce similar effects (for instance, dreamweave illusion is a room-wide analog of the hallucinations mote that costs no power to use), so removing the power cost of crafting motes while in dreamform would be justifiable. Furthermore, this would have no affect on combat balance: the power cost involved in mote crafting is paid entirely before the fight starts, and dreamweavers have ample time to replenish their reserves after crafting before they enter combat.
3) Allow dreamweavers with the Dreamcatchers ability to craft motes while in physical form by wielding a dreamcatcher and a powerstone, and remove the power cost from mote weaving in dreambody. Dreamcatchers currently go unused because they offer no benefits and are prone to failure from eaten commands through stupidity and amnesia. This change would find a use for the item, while simultaneously offering dreamweavers two different options for making the mote crafting process less tedious. Removing the power cost while in dreambody would make the ability behave similarly to other skills which have reduced costs when performed on their 'home plane', such as summoning fae or conjuring mage staves.
I am not entirely certain how dreamcatchers are useless. You can't use your dream mote rift without one... and not entirely certain how they are prone to failure from eaten commands... especially from amnesia? Wot?
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I think he means that there's no disadvantage to having hundreds of motes in your inventory, because (AFAIK) they don't decay. Which should probably be corrected.
I think he means that there's no disadvantage to having hundreds of motes in your inventory, because (AFAIK) they don't decay. Which should probably be corrected.
Probably an oversight that is likely to be corrected over changing dreamcatchers to do other stuff.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I've never used a dreamcatcher for anything, myself. Having to send outdr mote any time I want to use a mote (Therefore putting in twice as many commands, twice as many chances for it to screw up) is a downside that the rift does nothing to compensate for... because it does nothing but give you a pretty output, which can be coded player-side anyways! When the new rifts were introduced, we (Iosai and I) chatted about the dream rift and its uses, while we talked about functionality. If they were going to be changed, that was the time for it - Admins (afaict, or Iosai at least) fully know that there isn't any point to them, I've told 'em myself!
I don't care either way on the 'making motes' front, though a way to batch make them would be appreciated to alleviate the tedium. Something like the second suggestion here.
They cost power, I suppose. That's the big difference, that and they cost a lot more wp.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I'm not sure why a power cost would justify making them non decay when outside of their containers. Kind of a non sequitor to me. Plenty of things cost power and eventually decay. Fetishes cost a fortune in power and they do.
Not that I care, or that it's of any real consequence. Dreamcatcher or not, it's functionally the same. Less inventory clutter for people who hate that sort of thing.
If you want further justification for why they're no-decay, remember that they have to be made one mote at a time. If someone submitted that report above and they also got decay outside of their rift, I'd still be very happy. But this morning I spent 10 minutes in dreamform replenishing more of my motes, and as long as they have all these other problems I'd really appreciate it if I didn't have to do this more often than I already do.
If it is determined to be a bug it will be changed on the spot. (see fae quest ents fix)
Follow up with your envoy to see if he/she is interested in pursuing any of this. If not let people know you are looking for another envoy to take it up and offer a much more condensed version.
Lately quality of life reports have been pretty well received so a report to make motes easier to make shouldn't see much resistance.
Sorry if this isn't what you were hoping to hear, I know how frustrating all of this can be at times, but it's the system we have to work with.
If you want further justification for why they're no-decay, remember that they have to be made one mote at a time. If someone submitted that report above and they also got decay outside of their rift, I'd still be very happy. But this morning I spent 10 minutes in dreamform replenishing more of my motes, and as long as they have all these other problems I'd really appreciate it if I didn't have to do this more often than I already do.
New motes will now be decaying, per a changelog this morning; as always, you can store them in your rift to keep them from rotting away!
If you want further justification for why they're no-decay, remember that they have to be made one mote at a time. If someone submitted that report above and they also got decay outside of their rift, I'd still be very happy. But this morning I spent 10 minutes in dreamform replenishing more of my motes, and as long as they have all these other problems I'd really appreciate it if I didn't have to do this more often than I already do.
New motes will now be decaying, per a changelog this morning; as always, you can store them in your rift to keep them from rotting away!
Are you going to allow people to make multiple at once, and not cost power to make? <:-P
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
If you want further justification for why they're no-decay, remember that they have to be made one mote at a time. If someone submitted that report above and they also got decay outside of their rift, I'd still be very happy. But this morning I spent 10 minutes in dreamform replenishing more of my motes, and as long as they have all these other problems I'd really appreciate it if I didn't have to do this more often than I already do.
New motes will now be decaying, per a changelog this morning; as always, you can store them in your rift to keep them from rotting away!
Are you going to allow people to make multiple at once, and not cost power to make? <:-P
That would be an Envoy report, not a bug-fix.
There's no reason to do that as part of the bug-fix, since they can already be made non-decay by putting them in a rift (and they'll still have to go in the rift anyways even if they are able to be made many at a time).
Follow up with your envoy to see if he/she is interested in pursuing any of this. If not let people know you are looking for another envoy to take it up and offer a much more condensed version.
Lately quality of life reports have been pretty well received so a report to make motes easier to make shouldn't see much resistance.
Sorry if this isn't what you were hoping to hear, I know how frustrating all of this can be at times, but it's the system we have to work with.
Already spoke with my envoy, and her opinion was that it doesn't matter. I'd really love it if another person would take it up, since it's really way worse than the other item skills right now.
Making motes and dreamweaving in general is a lot of work for a little pay off.
Uses up to much willpower for any consistently long fight, while relyin on attritional tactics to win. Ontop of that, motes are a pain in the ass to deal with, making each individually and costing power.
The only saving grace is the passive blackout in an embedded mote, or the long ass blackout from puncture/flick.
A weak, annoying skillet that requires to much work
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
It's a fair bit better for druids, with allergies. I find that the best mote to embed (outside of blackout) is usually epilepsy, as people will just eat kafe to nullify the others.
EDIT: But yes I agree, and it has a lot of skill bloat - useless skills that really have no place in the skillset. Things like Haunt, Amnesia mote, Undoing, Spook, and Possess.
It's a fair bit better for druids, with allergies. I find that the best mote to embed (outside of blackout) is usually epilepsy, as people will just eat kafe to nullify the others.
EDIT: But yes I agree, and it has a lot of skill bloat - useless skills that really have no place in the skillset. Things like Haunt, Amnesia mote, Undoing, Spook, and Possess.
I usually went with the epilepsy or daydreaming back in my dreamweaving days myself. As to the bloat... well, it is not the only skillset suffering from that. Not all runes have a practical use either, for instance.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I like daydreaming, but it falls into the "Just eat kafe to be safe" trap.
Yeah, but runes has those in for thematic effect - to 'complete' the set of runes (but not quite complete, as I'm sure someone will point out). I wasn't saying that these skills should necessarily be buffed into usefulness (As is often the case when someone points out that a particular skill is useless) but that they could easily stand to be deleted without any loss!
I like daydreaming, but it falls into the "Just eat kafe to be safe" trap.
Yeah, but runes has those in for thematic effect - to 'complete' the set of runes (but not quite complete, as I'm sure someone will point out). I wasn't saying that these skills should necessarily be buffed into usefulness (As is often the case when someone points out that a particular skill is useless) but that they could easily stand to be deleted without any loss!
Wasn't saying they should be buffed... just saying that there's other skillsets that suffer from this. A fair amount of them, in fact. I'd love runes ABs, mind. xD
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
So I was wondering, is there anything we can do to springup to make it less of a slap in the face against bonecrushers, axelords and cavaliers? Knockdown is pretty important to these guys for early hindering and springup literally makes it worthless. To be honest, I think it presents far too strong an advantage, especially if the acrobat is a monk. It makes it hard to balance warrior specs in general because those three get knockdown as a solid advantage against other classes, but it actually becomes a burden against these guys.
Also, in regards to tattoos, is it reasonable that monks get to max out at 84/84? Why not make tattoos equal to the best splendours? It's way too high for a class that has such bananas hindering and only ends up mattering against warriors, who they need no help with.
I'm highly reluctant to consider nerfing springup because I am planning to go back acro to be competitive in PK again. >.>
But it is true that springup is a huge reason why acrobats are so popular. It instantly provides a huge wall and safe zone for mediocre acrobats, keeping them safe from similarly proficient warriors (and to a lesser extent, monks as well). This is, in theory, balanced out by the dismal defenses against casters of an acrobat - strong against physicals, but weak against damage casters or non prone-reliant classes.
Because warriors are so reliant on proning to get ahead and start stacking wounds, springup in the hands of top-tier combatants ends up shutting out all but the most experienced warriors from using a huge part of their entire offense, and for classes that are 100% prone reliant, they are left high-and-dry unless they develop specific tactics to overcome springup, or to exploit other vulnerabilities of the acrobat's curing system. Monks are also hugely reliant on prone to do everything from hitting their damage modifiers or to get their next tier afflictions, but monks also have other tricks designed into their offense which can bypass stance and parry.
In a team situation, this is reasonable - just don't hit acrobats if you're a physical user, and rely on your caster teammates to disable them. (Or just brute force through them with pure numbers, group warriors can brute force through anything.) However, in a 1v1, it is not unreasonable to point this out as being unfair. I'm not sure what can be done to nerf springup without outright deleting it, (too little and the status quo doesn't change, but past a certain threshold and the skill is as good as useless) and if we go the latter route to level the field for 1v1 warriors, acrobatics will end up needing something else to cover their ass casters.
What do they lack against casters? Is it a DMP problem? Can't we just give them more dmp?
In groups, it's not an issue, since warriors bypass a lot of their issues in groups easily unless it's a very small group situation. When you add dodge, a monk's superior hindering and high armour values you actually make it ridiculously hard for a warrior to get going. Except Cavalier, which gets tendon now, the other two rely on a lot of poison luck and/or high wounds to keep an acrobat prone early in the fight to start getting anywhere. It's not even about making them explore other options, it actually successfully makes them useless unless the acrobat in question has poor armour/curing and will get wounded out anyway (which is rarer and rarer these days). When the common answer to dealing with monk momentum is "hinder them", what options does that leave these specs?
On the topic of trans tattoo, it is true that they are clearly better than splendours in armour. Tattoos came out with lots of problems (see Shaddus' thread on the topic) but combat relevance was not one of them (for monks, at least). If anything tattoos was an unconditional buff to monks (or at least, for those that decided to trans it).
Un-trans or non tattoo monks don't see such a huge difference, they got some extra dmp and were given non-decaying, immune-to-vestiphobia robes, but the stats weren't significantly different from greatrobes. If I remember correctly, there was an attempt to nerf the stats before, but the extra stats were supposedly justified due to the actual hassle of getting the tattoos (you're trans, but you can't ink yourself etc, again, mentioned in Shaddus' thread).
I'm not sure how exactly the +20 (splendours hover around 60/60 at optimal levels, iirc) armour stats actually interact in combat. It's entirely possible the extra stats don't add that much, and the actual factors that are important is in the monk hindering repertoire (ie. the actual monk skillsets), but the numbers clearly have tattoo armour as better than splendours, at least.
Comments
Minus the group pre nerd wolf idea. Everyone has to suffer if communes ate a nerf specifically because of fearaura. >:(
Problem:
The mechanic for crafting dreamweaving motes has significant issues compared to other skills which consume items on use. A dreamweaver can easily go through dozens of motes in a fight, particularly if they are a druid who is not their group's primary melder. However, unlike Runes and Tarot, both of whom have supplies crafted from cheap resources easily obtainable with gold, Dreamweaving requires a unit of power for each mote crafted. Other repetitive processes that have intensive power costs, such as enchanting, lorecrafting, or carving totems, offer users the option to draw this energy from powerstones, but dreamweaving cannot because mote crafting must be done while in dreamform. Because the power for mote weaving is drawn directly from the dreamweaver, dreamweaving also does not have a batch production syntax equivalent to Tarot or Runes' INSCRIBE [#] RUNE WITH [type]. Consequently, every few days a dreamweaver must take significant time out of playing to stay in dreamform crafting motes one at a time, during which they cannot communicate with anyone on the physical plane and consume hundreds of power in the process.
Solutions:
1) Allow dream mote crafting to be done while in physical form, add syntax to craft multiple motes at once, and allow mote crafting to draw from powerstones. Dreamweaving motes can still be cast and interacted with while in physical form, so there is roleplay justification for being able to craft them while in physical form as well. Shifting the power cost to powerstones would bring the expense of motes more in line with the price of blank runes and cards.
2) Keep dream mote crafting in dreambody only, but remove the power cost and add syntax to craft multiple motes at once. There is a unique flavor in making the dreamweaver enter dreamform in order to produce motes. Adding the syntax to craft multiple motes at once and removing the need to collect a large amount of essence afterward would fix the most tedious part of the process while preserving an interesting feature of dreamweaving lore. Other abilities in dreamweaving demonstrate that dreamweavers can manipulate the dreamscape without requiring power to produce similar effects (for instance, dreamweave illusion is a room-wide analog of the hallucinations mote that costs no power to use), so removing the power cost of crafting motes while in dreamform would be justifiable. Furthermore, this would have no affect on combat balance: the power cost involved in mote crafting is paid entirely before the fight starts, and dreamweavers have ample time to replenish their reserves after crafting before they enter combat.
3) Allow dreamweavers with the Dreamcatchers ability to craft motes while in physical form by wielding a dreamcatcher and a powerstone, and remove the power cost from mote weaving in dreambody. Dreamcatchers currently go unused because they offer no benefits and are prone to failure from eaten commands through stupidity and amnesia. This change would find a use for the item, while simultaneously offering dreamweavers two different options for making the mote crafting process less tedious. Removing the power cost while in dreambody would make the ability behave similarly to other skills which have reduced costs when performed on their 'home plane', such as summoning fae or conjuring mage staves.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I don't care either way on the 'making motes' front, though a way to batch make them would be appreciated to alleviate the tedium. Something like the second suggestion here.
I'm not sure why a power cost would justify making them non decay when outside of their containers. Kind of a non sequitor to me. Plenty of things cost power and eventually decay. Fetishes cost a fortune in power and they do.
Not that I care, or that it's of any real consequence. Dreamcatcher or not, it's functionally the same. Less inventory clutter for people who hate that sort of thing.
There's no reason to do that as part of the bug-fix, since they can already be made non-decay by putting them in a rift (and they'll still have to go in the rift anyways even if they are able to be made many at a time).
Some form of transfer cost or cap as to how far into your reserves you can go so dross energy isn't just linked and returned.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Already spoke with my envoy, and her opinion was that it doesn't matter. I'd really love it if another person would take it up, since it's really way worse than the other item skills right now.
Uses up to much willpower for any consistently long fight, while relyin on attritional tactics to win. Ontop of that, motes are a pain in the ass to deal with, making each individually and costing power.
The only saving grace is the passive blackout in an embedded mote, or the long ass blackout from puncture/flick.
A weak, annoying skillet that requires to much work
EDIT: But yes I agree, and it has a lot of skill bloat - useless skills that really have no place in the skillset. Things like Haunt, Amnesia mote, Undoing, Spook, and Possess.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Yeah, but runes has those in for thematic effect - to 'complete' the set of runes (but not quite complete, as I'm sure someone will point out). I wasn't saying that these skills should necessarily be buffed into usefulness (As is often the case when someone points out that a particular skill is useless) but that they could easily stand to be deleted without any loss!
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
But it is true that springup is a huge reason why acrobats are so popular. It instantly provides a huge wall and safe zone for mediocre acrobats, keeping them safe from similarly proficient warriors (and to a lesser extent, monks as well). This is, in theory, balanced out by the dismal defenses against casters of an acrobat - strong against physicals, but weak against damage casters or non prone-reliant classes.
Because warriors are so reliant on proning to get ahead and start stacking wounds, springup in the hands of top-tier combatants ends up shutting out all but the most experienced warriors from using a huge part of their entire offense, and for classes that are 100% prone reliant, they are left high-and-dry unless they develop specific tactics to overcome springup, or to exploit other vulnerabilities of the acrobat's curing system. Monks are also hugely reliant on prone to do everything from hitting their damage modifiers or to get their next tier afflictions, but monks also have other tricks designed into their offense which can bypass stance and parry.
In a team situation, this is reasonable - just don't hit acrobats if you're a physical user, and rely on your caster teammates to disable them. (Or just brute force through them with pure numbers, group warriors can brute force through anything.) However, in a 1v1, it is not unreasonable to point this out as being unfair. I'm not sure what can be done to nerf springup without outright deleting it, (too little and the status quo doesn't change, but past a certain threshold and the skill is as good as useless) and if we go the latter route to level the field for 1v1 warriors, acrobatics will end up needing something else to cover their ass casters.
Un-trans or non tattoo monks don't see such a huge difference, they got some extra dmp and were given non-decaying, immune-to-vestiphobia robes, but the stats weren't significantly different from greatrobes. If I remember correctly, there was an attempt to nerf the stats before, but the extra stats were supposedly justified due to the actual hassle of getting the tattoos (you're trans, but you can't ink yourself etc, again, mentioned in Shaddus' thread).
I'm not sure how exactly the +20 (splendours hover around 60/60 at optimal levels, iirc) armour stats actually interact in combat. It's entirely possible the extra stats don't add that much, and the actual factors that are important is in the monk hindering repertoire (ie. the actual monk skillsets), but the numbers clearly have tattoo armour as better than splendours, at least.