You guys really need to post more logs (and discuss them for the purpose of enhancing the game)

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Comments

  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    https://ada-young.appspot.com/pastebin/F0H-hQMx

    Harbingers and SDs totally balanced guys.

    Time when Veyils first twists me: 19:26:27.706.

    Time I'm gusted out: 19:26:34.670.

    (yes, I figured it was a lure, but I wanted to see what would happen. Thx for the save.)
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
  • TenakaTenaka Member Posts: 57 Capable
    It's a good thing you sipped health instead of mana.
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    edited September 2017
    Name another combination which provides the means for a mana drain to do ~18.7% maxmana on a 3 second balance with 0 power investment, I'll wait.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • TyamitTyamit Member Posts: 71 Capable
    edited September 2017
    Give me a hexer and a succumber and I'll double that drain rate. Or a dreambeast and any slush source.

    Flapping his wings furiously, an enormous bat creates a gust of wind that slams into you.

    GDI @Tarken.
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    edited September 2017
    Yarith said:
    Name another combination which provides the means for a mana drain to do ~18.7% maxmana on a 3 second balance with 0 power investment, I'll wait.
    Edit:
    Also double is a gross exaggeration. 
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • TyamitTyamit Member Posts: 71 Capable
    Dreambeast is 6 motes and slush can be given for free. I've taken 3800+ shots to my mana from them.
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    I'm sure you have logs and that a fix hasn't already been processed/is underway?
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • TyamitTyamit Member Posts: 71 Capable
    I'm sure we'll see plenty more logs up here before any fix is in. 
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    edited September 2017
    'Sure' we will. At least that one is getting fixed, unlike other mechanics.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    Dreambeast is in the process of getting nerfed. People already tried to self-nerf Succumb.
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    'Sorry, I do not feed trolls.'
    Also you said 'fixed', implying it was broken in the first place despite being defended until that day as being fine.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    Tenaka said:
    It's a good thing you sipped health instead of mana.
    I don't know if you noticed in my log, but I almost died to health damage.
  • TenakaTenaka Member Posts: 57 Capable
    Maligorn said:
    Tenaka said:
    It's a good thing you sipped health instead of mana.
    I don't know if you noticed in my log, but I almost died to health damage.
    You didn't do it just once.  You did it in both logs. Granted yes you had a choice of health or mana in the first log, but sipping health over mana in the second log leads me to think you just cured badly, that's fine we all do it now and then.

    19:12:04 [H:78%|7263][M:52%|6494][E:104%|10800][p:10(114)][0][*Marcella*][33.38m]lrexk
    You take a drink of a potion of healing from an elemental ice vial.
    The potion heals and soothes you.
    19:12:04 [H:95%|8862][M:52%|6494][E:104%|10800][p:10(114)][0][*Marcella*][33.38m]lrexk(+1599h, 17.2%)
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    Tenaka said:
    Yarith said:
    'Sorry, I do not feed trolls.'
    Also you said 'fixed', implying it was broken in the first place despite being defended until that day as being fine.
    Apologies, I should have put fixed in '' so as to not confuse your intellect.
    You should try not to attack me personally, it only really looks bad on you. 
    Try saying what you mean in future.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • FalaeronFalaeron Jolteon Member Posts: 1,663 Transcendent
    Just fyi, dreambeast is getting nerfed, and it isn't tied to a class with a 50% mana kill, so I'm not sure that comparing another skill to that is a good idea.

    Also, if all twist did was the mana drain it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
  • TenakaTenaka Member Posts: 57 Capable
    You are right, it is tied to a class with a 50% ego kill.
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    edited September 2017
    Tenaka said:
    Maligorn said:
    Tenaka said:
    It's a good thing you sipped health instead of mana.
    I don't know if you noticed in my log, but I almost died to health damage.
    You didn't do it just once.  You did it in both logs. Granted yes you had a choice of health or mana in the first log, but sipping health over mana in the second log leads me to think you just cured badly, that's fine we all do it now and then.

    19:12:04 [H:78%|7263][M:52%|6494][E:104%|10800][p:10(114)][0][*Marcella*][33.38m]lrexk
    You take a drink of a potion of healing from an elemental ice vial.
    The potion heals and soothes you.
    19:12:04 [H:95%|8862][M:52%|6494][E:104%|10800][p:10(114)][0][*Marcella*][33.38m]lrexk(+1599h, 17.2%)
    That ain't meeee. 1st is me, 2nd is Kreon (who gave me permission to post).
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,034 Transcendent

    Falaeron said:
    Just fyi, dreambeast is getting nerfed, and it isn't tied to a class with a 50% mana kill, so I'm not sure that comparing another skill to that is a good idea.

    Also, if all twist did was the mana drain it wouldn't be as much of an issue.
    Let me get this straight.  You want Shadowdancers to be aeonless versions of Moondancers, with less afflicting potential, but two forms of Lash (one that costs power).  Is that correct?

    I'm getting confused by your arguments here.  How about we just swap Lash and Succumb back now that Choke's gone?  I am pretty sure if you do that you won't see Twist used much at all any more, too, so it could be a winner in that respect!
    image
  • TenakaTenaka Member Posts: 57 Capable
    Well then it appears two of you cure badly. Perhaps it is a Hallifax thing.
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,016 Transcendent
    Mana barbs is pretty insane vitals pressure when you combine it with any mana drain class.

    Succumb for a 5k mana and health tick wrecks face :disappointed:
  • MaligornMaligorn Windborne Member Posts: 3,035 Transcendent
    Lol. Kreon is from New Celest. Do you actually play the game, or are you just here to troll?
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    I think what Fal is trying to say is that the afflictions through twist really are too strong to warrant the consistent mana drain with an impending bomb at the end for the cost, consistency, and availability of the move without any real constraints on use barring 1 shadow per person.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,034 Transcendent
    Look, you're complaining about the replacement to Choke.  This started out as room choke.  It got nerfed to single-target choke (that hit both caster and target).  Then Succumb & Lash got switched (because "having passive drain and choke is too much").  Then that wasn't good enough so Choke got deleted entirely and turned into Twist.  Twist has also been hit a couple of times (no more *locks, for example).

    Classes are going to have unique skills.  If you really insist we can pop up a report to swap Succumb & Lash back, or we could revive Choke.  What we're not going to do is say "Shadowdancers, you have to have 2 versions of Lash-- though you can only use one at a time and one of the two costs power-- and no affliction potential because we can't handle you otherwise."  You're never going to kill anybody just Lashing them (or PowerLashing).  That's not how the game works.  You need supporting prep, and that's what Twist is used for.
    image
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    edited September 2017
    Xenthos said:
    Look, you're complaining about the replacement to Choke.  This started out as room choke.  It got nerfed to single-target choke (that hit both caster and target).  Then Succumb & Lash got switched (because "having passive drain and choke is too much").  Then that wasn't good enough so Choke got deleted entirely and turned into Twist.  Twist has also been hit a couple of times (no more *locks, for example).

    Classes are going to have unique skills.  If you really insist we can pop up a report to swap Succumb & Lash back, or we could revive Choke.  What we're not going to do is say "Shadowdancers, you have to have 2 versions of Lash-- though you can only use one at a time and one of the two costs power-- and no affliction potential because we can't handle you otherwise."  You're never going to kill anybody just Lashing them (or PowerLashing).  That's not how the game works.  You need supporting prep, and that's what Twist is used for.
    Celestines manage just fine with Amssio -> Absolve, and shadowdancers are more than capable of just lashing people to death in groups.

    I'd rather twist be closer in power to ruby -> shatterplex -> timequake, since they share the same niche.

    Further, 
    Just because something has been changed before does not mean it shouldn't be changed again. 
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,016 Transcendent
    As a little side point in terms of helping you survive @Maligorn you can attempt to cure off the mana barbs with allheale for one minor improvement. I don't see you using that at all in the first log. Its a bit of a lucky shot but its saved my life a few times.

    The other thing is your vitals prios may not quite right. You sipped/read healing/sparkleberry at
    10892h|87%, 9901m|79%, 9895e|100%, The mana sip covered the entire of the mana drain and the sparkleberry covered all the health damage. The scroll was a wasted balance but didnt go through due to failure which was lucky for you but something you may want to adjust in the future.

    Looking at that first log mana barbs is a bit mental actually. Take out the mana barbs and you'd be able to keep up fairly decently. Maybe mana barbs needs to be looked at.

    The second log there is someone standing there unhindered not healing properly or shielding or leaving the room. Not really sure what else to say about that. Adjust your sip prios. Theres a handy trigger below to do it auto.

    expandAlias("hh ego")
    if (prioStatusTimer) then killTimer(prioStatusTimer) end
    prioStatusTimer =  tempTimer(6, [[expandAlias("hh health")]])






  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    edited September 2017
    The problem here is NSB more than manabarbs. NSB contribues a lot more here than anything else, the manabarbs just expedite it.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,034 Transcendent
    Really?  You know of any Celestine that has ever managed a kill with nothing but Amissio?  Do you know how many times Amissio has been complained about over the years because they can't kill just with Amissio? :p

    Just like every other mana draining class they have to have support to make their kill go (and yes, that support can be a group).  Thankfully we don't balance around "You aren't allowed to do anything but mana drain and can accomplish nothing unless you're in a group," too.

    The drain %age of amissio (and lash) is easily outpaced by curing.
    image
  • YarithYarith Member Posts: 997 Mythical
    edited September 2017
    Specifically talking about groups: Amissio -> Absolve is a more than a viable route and Lash -> Toad is no less powerful.
    Edit: Relic of a time once gone: http://nogfx.org/logs/82

    You didn't consider my comparison regarding bringing twist in line with ruby/plex/quake.
    (I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)

    == Professional Girl Gamer == 
    Yes I play games
    Yes I'm a girl
    get over it
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 2,016 Transcendent
    Yarith said:
    The problem here is NSB more than manabarbs. NSB contribues a lot more here than anything else, the manabarbs just expedite it.

    Not really. Read the log and add up the numbers and mana barbs did the most vital pressure there out of anything.
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