Except that doesn't happen. Hell, it didn't even happen during ascension. If there's any indication that people value their alliances more than any form of PK or conflict it's that.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
2
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I really feel that the conflict here is a bit -too structured- if that makes sense, and I think these incessant circles of logic and debate on which side is which is due to what Maligorn has just stated not so much that it is easily gamed but that the game ultimately in the form things operate currently permits an advantage depending on what timezone gets the opportunity.
I would agree with this. One thing I hate about combat(in all IRE games really, but the structured aspect here is a specific issue) is that there's so rarely any incentive to engage in PvP one-on-one. Even if I wanted to try that, I wouldn't trust that the "other side" would do the same. I like the idea of conflict-orientated quests, but seems like it would result in more of the issues with teaming and arguments about the unfairness of numbers.
So I have no business being in this thread really, but the point above about having no incentives for one-on-one PVP intrigues me. What would those even look like? And is there interest in that?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Have a combat rankings outside of the arena that requires you to pk challenge <person> just like they would for an arena. Set up level tiers. Reward creddies/gold/curios/literally anything at all for winning. You are unable to be targetted by anything not a Divine or a player controlled mob during this duel. (and make it so the challenge syntax has you smack them in the face with a glove)
I really feel that the conflict here is a bit -too structured- if that makes sense, and I think these incessant circles of logic and debate on which side is which is due to what Maligorn has just stated not so much that it is easily gamed but that the game ultimately in the form things operate currently permits an advantage depending on what timezone gets the opportunity.
I would agree with this. One thing I hate about combat(in all IRE games really, but the structured aspect here is a specific issue) is that there's so rarely any incentive to engage in PvP one-on-one. Even if I wanted to try that, I wouldn't trust that the "other side" would do the same. I like the idea of conflict-orientated quests, but seems like it would result in more of the issues with teaming and arguments about the unfairness of numbers.
So I have no business being in this thread really, but the point above about having no incentives for one-on-one PVP intrigues me. What would those even look like? And is there interest in that?
For the longest time there was.
They were called Combat Rankings.
But it became a laughing stock because the people at the top just pick and choose their opponent as opposed to actually taking on challenges. And still do. Just another thing for people to game.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
As an example, this is the SECT which was created in Aetolia, this might be a useful sort of thing relevant to what @Tremula said....
PARDON THE LENGTH -
13.15 Sect of Blades
The Sect of Blades is a loosely-run, but strictly overseen, organization of honor-bound warriors located near Esterport, outside the southern city gates. Ages past saw the Sect as a common grounds for mastering martial prowess and tactical lore, building around principles of honor and skill to form a brotherhood of warriors. Members of the Sect prove their mettle and honor by accruing marks of triumph, earned for fights performed with no assistance. The ability to slay one's target or defend from one's aggressor with only the tools at their disposal is valued above all for the honor of the Sect.
Those who prove their worth will rise in rank within the Sect, discovering more of the organization's membership and perks, including the ability to pinpoint champions among the Sect and entering the famed Hall of Blades. Those who obtain the highest levels of honor are granted various privileges, including the ability to personalize one's deadliest techniques - an individualized version of a beheading, and a gruesome, unique deathsight to accompany it. Those who stand upon the Sect's Council, bearing the greatest honors, may also compete among one another for a legendary Ankyrean artifact, said to bring omniscience to those surrounded in battle.
Related Commands
----------------
JOIN SECT: While at Jasquez Tiamo, you can join the Sect of
Blades to receive your insignia and membership.
There is a 5,000 gold sovereign fee to join,
even if you were a member in the past. You can
PATH FIND SECT to get there.
QUIT SECT: Remove yourself as a member of the Sect. During
this time, your insignia is inactive and you
cannot accrue additional marks. You cannot rejoin
the Sect of Blades for until the next season
after quitting.
SCT <text>: Sends a tell over the Sect channel, if you have
access to it.
SECTWHO: Senses other Sect members within the realms.
SECT INSIGNIA: Examine your insignia for your status within the
Sect of Blades.
SECT CHALLENGE: Challenge any listeners to a duel in the Sect
arena. The challenger is hidden!
SECT ACCEPT: Accept a challenge for the Sect arena.
Sect Arena
----------
The Sect Arena is a special one on one arena open to only to Blade members.
After twenty minutes in the Sect Arena with no deaths, both challengers will receive the 'battle_hunger' affliction, which prevents them from moving further then a single room from each other.
Unlike a normal arena, you will still use supplies and and lose experience upon dying.
Sect Who
--------
You can see all Sect members who have participated in at least ten duels. Those who haven't will still count towards the total of members online, but you will not know who they are.
Hall of Blades
--------------
The Hall of Blades is a gathering place for the prominent members of the Blades. Here, you can find an assortment of combat-related intrigue, including the fabled Crown of Omens. In order to enter the Hall, speak with Iernil at the Sect of Blades sign up.
Rules
-----
Once in the arena, anything goes. You are permitted to make use of everything at your disposal, provided it does not incorporate help from outside sources during the duel. The only person that should help you achieve a kill is you.
Although it is possible to game the Sect of Blades in variety of ways, those that go against the spirit of the Sect will find their membership revoked and all awarded ranks and rewards stripped from them. Fair play is expected of everyone.
Ranks and Rewards
-----------------
As you participate in Sect duels, you will gain dueling experience under your belt and will be recognised for such. There are rewards, simply for showing bravery, and accepting a duel.
Rank 1 - Green Recruit - This is your starting rank.
Rank 2 - Soldier of Cause - This requires 20 duels within the Sect arena.
Rank 3 - Practiced Veteran - This requires 50 duels within the Sect arena.
Rank 4 - Deadly Duelist - This requires 100 duels within the Sect arena.
Rank 5 - Master Slayer - This requires 200 duels within the Sect arena.
Each rank also comes with a small perks:
RANK 1:
- Access to the Hall of Blades after 10 duels.
- Access to Sect channel after 10 duels.
- Visible to others on SECTWHO after 10 duels.
RANK 2:
- Ability to compete for the Crown of Omens.
- Your name becomes visible on the Sect channel.
- Access to a new Weaponry ability, learned from Grim in the
Hall of Blades.
RANK 3:
- Access to the Horn of Toscin.
- Access to a new Weaponry ability, learned from Grim in the
Hall of Blades.
RANK 4:
- Access to the enchantment and preservation rooms.
- Access to a new Weaponry ability, learned from Grim in the
Hall of Blades.
RANK 5:
- Earns 50% more marks of triumph.
- Denoted as a Master on the Sect channel.
Marks of Triumph
----------------
You can gain marks of triumph by completing certain activities that are beneficial to becoming a competent duelist. These marks can be gained outside of the Arena as well as in. With these marks, you can trade them in at the general store within the Hall of Blades for various rewards. Graryn, the quartermaster, will tell you more about these items if you wish to know.
Note: Unless otherwise noted, all methods stack with one another.
GAINING MARKS:
- Obtaining a new rank within the Sect (1000).
- Killing another player without any assists (100).
* Open PK zones and the Sect arena will double the marks.
* Each subsequent kill per season on the same person will be reduced
to 25 marks.
* After five kills per season on the same person, you will receive
only 1 mark.
- Claiming a bounty on another player without assists (100).
- Obtaining ten bloodstone charges, if you possess the bloodstone
item (1500).
LOSING MARKS:
- You die to another player in single combat (-20).
- A season goes by without a single kill or death to another
player (-5).
* For each season that goes by, the loss in marks will double.
* This will cap at 100 marks lost per season.
Crown of Omens
--------------
The Crown of Omens is a legendary artifact bestowed upon the absolute best of the best of those within the Sect of Blades. In order to be eligible to lay claim to the Crown of Omens, you must be one of the top three duelist, decided by the administrators of the Blades, each season.
In order to be eligible for the Crown of Omens, you must complete the following requirements:
- Must be a member of the Sect of Blades.
- Obtained rank 2 within the Sect of Blades.
- Completed at least three duels for the seasonal rating period.
At the end of the rating period, the top three duelists will be posted upon a scroll within the courtyard in the Hall of Blades. Should you be successful, you may CLAIM the CROWN OF OMENS from its pedestal in the Halls.
The Crown of Omens bestows the following benefits:
- For each person that has hostility against you, you gain:
* 5% resistance to all damage types.
* 2% resistance to all curable afflictions.
- These effects only apply if at least three or more people
have hostility on you.
- There is a maximum of ten stacks, further people with
hostility upon you will not contribute to the above.
Rules:
- You are OPEN PK while you possess the Crown of Omens.
- The Crown of Omens will be automatically relinquished after
three hours if you stand within a place of safety.
* This includes places such as Havens, cities, portal
rooms, and any other hard to reach place.
- If you die to another player in single combat, the Crown
will be automatically relinquished.
* This does not count if you are within an arena.
- The Crown cannot be removed or dropped once claimed.
- The Crown does not return instantly once relinquished.
This sums up what you need to know about the Sect of Blades. You should find there is plenty of opportunity for beginners, intermediates, and those that like fierce competition.
Happy dueling!
I really feel that the conflict here is a bit -too structured- if that makes sense, and I think these incessant circles of logic and debate on which side is which is due to what Maligorn has just stated not so much that it is easily gamed but that the game ultimately in the form things operate currently permits an advantage depending on what timezone gets the opportunity.
I would agree with this. One thing I hate about combat(in all IRE games really, but the structured aspect here is a specific issue) is that there's so rarely any incentive to engage in PvP one-on-one. Even if I wanted to try that, I wouldn't trust that the "other side" would do the same. I like the idea of conflict-orientated quests, but seems like it would result in more of the issues with teaming and arguments about the unfairness of numbers.
So I have no business being in this thread really, but the point above about having no incentives for one-on-one PVP intrigues me. What would those even look like? And is there interest in that?
I would think it would have to be something mechanically enforced in some way, like you aren't able to claim X prize if anyone helps you kill Y person. But imo? Solo combat is far more interesting and there are plenty of reasons to want to try it... except that practically speaking, no one wants to lose whatever prize they're going for. If you jump someone in say, Faethorn, high odds they'll either run or call in 3 of their buddies, even when there is no potential loss(other than exp/essence/time/pride). And I'm not saying I'm any better, cause I know I do it too... because everyone does. That's the problem.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
The sect thing in aetolia, yeah. I was thinking of that but it's late and I wasn't sure if I remembered correctly how it worked...
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
So I have an Envoy report open, since I'm still awaiting on three Ecology reports (1366, 1372, 1470!!!). I can easily design an envoy report to suggest changes to Ascension.
Harmony: Basin wide Peace like a Peaced Revolt.
Life: If fail to cure Furrikin, you are locked out of that furrikin. But others can still get it
If Nature is Open PK, I think that's the design. Causing Chaos by attacking mobs is not part of the design, I would think. Same would apply with mass genocide of furrikins to prevent saving them.
I have until June 15th, GMT midnight, to submit a report.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Problem with any 1vs1 mechanic is that classes are not created equal. While one class may absolutely rule against another, it may absolutely be useless against another, or at least so was my impression from my arena fights. e. g. most warriors will be driven mad by Aeldra's curing, wheras a fight against an institute or celestine is about a 50/50 chance of winning or losing ( which would be something that I'd love to see in such a mechanic, "roughly" equal chances if equal skill ) and most melders and monks make toast of me. Sure, I'm not the most experienced PKer, but I've heard from other people as well that some classes are harder/near impossible to PK for them 1vs1 then others and I've heard from others that some archetypes were a lot harder for them to win against then others ( not the same archetypes as for me ).
That being said, I am unsure how you would actually attempt to remedy such a situation so it keeps being fun for people. I kind of like the SECT thing that has been described, but as said, unsure how to actually improve on it. A kind of ranking system may be helping there, making it less interesting to fight people who are half your skill level? But on the other hand, it may be just the thrill to fight someone you know you'll likely to lose to and then winning. I think it's a difficult thing to make fun, but if succeeded, would be quite interesting. The hopes of such a SECT system for me would be that it removes a lot of the complaints we currently face.
For me, the most fun 1vs1 battles I had so far ( Well, they were arena battles mostly ) was against @Yarith, because while Yarith is a lot better then me, I also know I have a chance of winning against him. Fighting against people who have 10 times the experience and artifact value and a skill set that is particularly suited to screw me isn't going to have me all excited for it. Even though I may try to push myself to try regardless to learn.
finally, @Sylvanus, kudo's for you to trying to compose such a report. I was on a morale low after my first and thus far only ascension, simply by the amount of odd tactics employed in some of those trials. I think life, chaos and harmony are those that need addressing most and I feel that the suggested changes already feel rather good.
I would like to see more conflict systems that can't be gamed, but designing new things takes lots of coding! I'd rather see the overhaul actually finished first.
However, I was trying to brainstorm what features a conflict mechanic needs to be the most fun/least grindy. Here are my thoughts:
Minor rewards to the victors. (Not crazy power that makes people stress)
Little to no penalty for participation. (No reason to dodge)
Unpredictable times (equal opportunity for all time zones, no gaming the schedule)
Fun competition format.
With that in mind, I have an idea that attempts to address all of the problems and avoids balancing/coding headaches.
A random seal would at a random time call for a champion.
The competition would be randomly either a FFA, wargames, or battlechess (or maybe even other arena games, also could include the aetherspace arena), would be really awesome if somehow vengeance could be included, but it could be ooc abused.
Possibly: limit number of participants per org.
Only one org can win, so it's whoever is last man/team standing.
The winning org gets affinity to the seal (until another org wins it away)
Seal affinity allows you to gain the karma blessing from that seal for free. You still have to pay upkeep, and you can only use it on one seal at a time. (I.e. even if your org has every seal, you can only have one free blessing at the same time). Syntax would be something like karma blessing life affinity. Would fail if you had another affinity blessing.
Sounds fun to me! And I don't think getting 1 cheaper karma blessing is imba. Hopefully would be easy to code!
Except 'South' has had the advantage and has been steamrolling absolves nonstop. Diplomatic solutions don't work because, as problematic as this situation is, this is the only meaningful form of 'daily' engagement each org has at getting back at one another.
I'd rather we had really frequent and common small progressive things which pop up on the world, opt in pvp king of the hill or other small skirmish mechanics which give minor rewards to the org. Something like a throne blessing at that item that only the org can use. I think we're better off putting in more chances for pvp than changing the ones we have.
People usually only go to upgrade when they have a significant lead and feel comfortable doing so (INB4 'no we don't <example1, example 2, example 3>'), which often makes stealing pretty moot.
Wait, what? You... you are being just a bit off base here. Recently, the North held all nine Domoths. We ended up getting one (Crek took it), and Aeden immediately absolved it. When we got other Domoths back, you can bet we started absolving right back. And you can't claim that we're "steamrolling" absolves when the person doing more than 50% of the absolves is Aeden himself (and always, always, always when he knows there aren't enough people around to oppose him, even last night's). How can one side be "steamrolling" absolves when the other side has both the majority of the domoths and does the majority of the absolves? Makes no sense.
So you're saying that Celina's absolves on war, all 5 or however many there were of them in which South didn't break a single sweat in exceucting , regardless of how many of us/ how much we tried,was not a steamroll to you?
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
What Yarith means is that, whenever there is a fight during absolves, Team S always wins. There are just less combaty people who have experience/credits/interest in Team N than Team S.
So you're saying that Celina's absolves on war, all 5 or whatever of them in which South didn't break a single sweat in executing was not a steamroll to you?
Yes. Most of them were actually contested-- and with us being outnumbered and/or close to even, to boot. That's not a steamroll, that's a fight.
Aeden, on the other hand, has absolved way, way more than five times... and how many times has there been a fight during one of his absolves? Not one. That's steamrolling absolves-- just chugging them right on through.
If you're upset about 5 absolves on War, you should really be giving Aeden a stinkeye, you know. Every single time we have a domoth opposing one of his, we get to re-upgrade it on a daily basis because he absolved it over night. Sometimes even twice, if he got lucky with the dormancies. Yes, that's two absolves on the same domoth in the same day.
Okay. We have definitions of steamroll. You're saying not even breaking the up exit from nature and wiping 3 times for a kill/death ratio collectively of maybe 2/18 isn't a steamroll for the other team?
I think we're argung two different points.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Okay. We have definitions of steamroll. You're saying not even breaking the up exit from nature and wiping 3 times for a kill/death ratio collectively of maybe 2/18 isn't a steamroll?
I think we're argung two different points.
What's going on is that you seem to think that doing so when there is opposition-- and the opposition ends up dying-- is a steamroll, whereas doing it when there's no real opposition at all isn't.
That's not how it works in my mind, though. If you're choosing to do your absolves when you know nobody is going to be able to contest you, you are setting the deck for even larger "steamrolls" (for example, if Dylara and myself had gone up during the Knowledge absolve last night-- we were the only ones around-- we'd have been toasted very quick). That is a steamroll to me, not a fight where the numbers are more fair (regardless of actual outcome).
PS: I am positive that I did an absolve that we ended up losing. It's not like we always win these things.
One vague example doesn't mean all too much, especially when you have a large sample size. Not that anyone would waste their time recording who was present for each fight, times, wins and losses.
What you're saying is you want us to only absolve when there's a fight which we know we will lose? Because that's pretty much how all our fights go when we are 'even'ly matched.
Not that I really absolve much. I'll admit I absolved @Crek once when I held death for the first time but yeah, it was boring and I didn't want to do it again. No one is going to start an absolve they think they are going to lose.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
One vague example doesn't mean all too much, especially when you have a large sample size. Not that anyone would waste their time recording who was present for each fight, times, wins and losses.
What you're saying is you want us to only absolve when there's a fight which we know we will lose? Because that's pretty much how all our fights go when we are 'even'ly matched.
Not that I really absolve much. I'll admit I absolved @Crek once when I held death for the first time but yeah, it was boring and I didn't want to do it again. No one is going to start an absolve they think they are going to lose.
When you say "No one," you are wrong, because I can and have. Celina has, too (I mean, her most recent one she started when there were like 3 of us-- including her-- who were interested in participating and the other side had more than that wandering around-- but it took them about 15 minutes to group up, and by then we had gotten a little more interest).
I'm not saying I want you to only absolve then, as a note, but I am saying that only absolving at times when you know there is zero chance of losing is different than what we are doing most of the time (yes, I will agree that there have been a couple of times where the odds were not very good for you at all, but there have also been times where good coordination / teamwork both could and should have netted you guys the win).
Comments
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
13.15 Sect of Blades
That being said, I am unsure how you would actually attempt to remedy such a situation so it keeps being fun for people. I kind of like the SECT thing that has been described, but as said, unsure how to actually improve on it. A kind of ranking system may be helping there, making it less interesting to fight people who are half your skill level? But on the other hand, it may be just the thrill to fight someone you know you'll likely to lose to and then winning. I think it's a difficult thing to make fun, but if succeeded, would be quite interesting. The hopes of such a SECT system for me would be that it removes a lot of the complaints we currently face.
For me, the most fun 1vs1 battles I had so far ( Well, they were arena battles mostly ) was against @Yarith, because while Yarith is a lot better then me, I also know I have a chance of winning against him. Fighting against people who have 10 times the experience and artifact value and a skill set that is particularly suited to screw me isn't going to have me all excited for it. Even though I may try to push myself to try regardless to learn.
finally, @Sylvanus, kudo's for you to trying to compose such a report. I was on a morale low after my first and thus far only ascension, simply by the amount of odd tactics employed in some of those trials. I think life, chaos and harmony are those that need addressing most and I feel that the suggested changes already feel rather good.
However, I was trying to brainstorm what features a conflict mechanic needs to be the most fun/least grindy. Here are my thoughts:
Minor rewards to the victors. (Not crazy power that makes people stress)
Little to no penalty for participation. (No reason to dodge)
Unpredictable times (equal opportunity for all time zones, no gaming the schedule)
Fun competition format.
With that in mind, I have an idea that attempts to address all of the problems and avoids balancing/coding headaches.
A random seal would at a random time call for a champion.
The competition would be randomly either a FFA, wargames, or battlechess (or maybe even other arena games, also could include the aetherspace arena), would be really awesome if somehow vengeance could be included, but it could be ooc abused.
Possibly: limit number of participants per org.
Only one org can win, so it's whoever is last man/team standing.
The winning org gets affinity to the seal (until another org wins it away)
Seal affinity allows you to gain the karma blessing from that seal for free. You still have to pay upkeep, and you can only use it on one seal at a time. (I.e. even if your org has every seal, you can only have one free blessing at the same time). Syntax would be something like karma blessing life affinity. Would fail if you had another affinity blessing.
Sounds fun to me! And I don't think getting 1 cheaper karma blessing is imba. Hopefully would be easy to code!
edit: ack horrible phone formatting
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Aeden, on the other hand, has absolved way, way more than five times... and how many times has there been a fight during one of his absolves? Not one. That's steamrolling absolves-- just chugging them right on through.
If you're upset about 5 absolves on War, you should really be giving Aeden a stinkeye, you know. Every single time we have a domoth opposing one of his, we get to re-upgrade it on a daily basis because he absolved it over night. Sometimes even twice, if he got lucky with the dormancies. Yes, that's two absolves on the same domoth in the same day.
You're saying not even breaking the up exit from nature and wiping 3 times for a kill/death ratio collectively of maybe 2/18 isn't a steamroll for the other team?
I think we're argung two different points.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
What's going on is that you seem to think that doing so when there is opposition-- and the opposition ends up dying-- is a steamroll, whereas doing it when there's no real opposition at all isn't.
That's not how it works in my mind, though. If you're choosing to do your absolves when you know nobody is going to be able to contest you, you are setting the deck for even larger "steamrolls" (for example, if Dylara and myself had gone up during the Knowledge absolve last night-- we were the only ones around-- we'd have been toasted very quick). That is a steamroll to me, not a fight where the numbers are more fair (regardless of actual outcome).
PS: I am positive that I did an absolve that we ended up losing. It's not like we always win these things.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
I'm not saying I want you to only absolve then, as a note, but I am saying that only absolving at times when you know there is zero chance of losing is different than what we are doing most of the time (yes, I will agree that there have been a couple of times where the odds were not very good for you at all, but there have also been times where good coordination / teamwork both could and should have netted you guys the win).
Not that I am trying to put weights on people but there is still a discrepancy between the alliances.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it