That can be corrected. It's honestly our own fault in the North, IMHO. There definitely is a cultural difference in the approach, even if the end results make all parties involved upset.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
So if we can and should win some fights, but don't, why would we want to take any chance at all?
Not that I am trying to put weights on people but there is still a discrepancy between the alliances.
I could give a flippant answer here, but I will instead choose to be a bit more serious: If you can and should win some fights, isn't it worth the practice and experience to figure out what you're doing wrong so that you do win those fights? I think that's one of the things that frustrates us a bit on this side, you've got the numbers (even during the time period when we're active, your side already often has equal/more numbers, and just gets more loaded your way with the addition of people like Thul and Tarkenton), you've got some pretty strong skills, and you've got the ability to make magic happen. But instead of figuring out how to bring that all together, a lot of time is spent in avoiding the process entirely (and thus never getting across the threshold).
The fact that you guys have started participating in the absolves (that we initiate, at least) and have started doing some Domoth upgrade things / others around times when there is opposition, is great. For you as much as for us, because even if you lose, you should be figuring out what went wrong, what we did, and counters to get us next time. I remember any number of conversations in this exact same vein from our end, ending with a positive "Next time we'll get 'em!" outlook.
Maybe it's almost as frustrating as wiping three entire times, going 2/18 and barely making inches towards claiming a room. It's hard to improve on being immediately radded on entry and being melted before being able to tumble. It's frustrating when you can't make up for resistances people don't have them when one side oozes passive roomwide damage.
Sure, it might be great but it's also demoralising and frustrating and it's hard to get people to bounce back and want to go sometimes. Getting people to want to fight isn't easy, especially when they're turned off by certain names and that's something you can't control, no matter how you argue it.
Edit: It just comes down to who you have at the time. You can't control who you have to work with outside of alliances and you just have to support them the best you can. Sometimes they don't like fighting, sometimes they just don't want to fight certain fights and that's not something you can force.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
We're really good at being demoralizing. In the North, we don't have the "Will to Live". It's not the entirety of the situation, but I'm sorry North, we defeat ourselves when we're defeated, and sometimes before.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Maybe it's almost as frustrating as wiping three entire times, going 2/18 and barely making inches towards claiming a room. It's hard to improve on being immediately radded on entry and being melted before being able to tumble. It's frustrating when you can't make up for resistances people don't have them when one side oozes passive roomwide damage.
Sure, it might be great but it's also demoralising and frustrating and it's hard to get people to bounce back and want to go sometimes. Getting people to want to fight isn't easy, especially when they're turned off by certain names and that's something you can't control, no matter how you argue it.
Edit: It just comes down to who you have at the time. You can't control who you have to work with outside of alliances and you just have to support them the best you can. Sometimes they don't like fighting, sometimes they just don't want to fight certain fights and that's not something you can force.
To your edit: That's true. You can, however, encourage them. Being positive is a good step, as is encouraging doing things at a time when there's more likely to be some opposition / some ability to do murder. Supporting / pressing for absolves when there's no opposition is as unhelpful as actually doing the absolve itself, and that's something that members of an alliance can express opinions about.
To the first: I've seen you guys come up with creative ways to get around us. That's a good first step. The thing I noticed when you got to Justice during the last one, however, were things like "Not being grouped up, being completely split, running around, and not seeming to have a plan on what to do". Things were a bit hectic on our side, too, and if you had gone in with a plan in mind / stayed coordinated, you'd have done much better imo. Getting in is just the first step, and once you've got that, it's time to work on the next.
Maybe it's almost as frustrating as wiping three entire times, going 2/18 and barely making inches towards claiming a room. It's hard to improve on being immediately radded on entry and being melted before being able to tumble. It's frustrating when you can't make up for resistances people don't have them when one side oozes passive roomwide damage.
Sure, it might be great but it's also demoralising and frustrating and it's hard to get people to bounce back and want to go sometimes. Getting people to want to fight isn't easy, especially when they're turned off by certain names and that's something you can't control, no matter how you argue it.
Edit: It just comes down to who you have at the time. You can't control who you have to work with outside of alliances and you just have to support them the best you can. Sometimes they don't like fighting, sometimes they just don't want to fight certain fights and that's not something you can force.
You say this like it never happens to us either.
We literally contested a domoth on Crum and wiped 3 times, without really making a lot of progress. Yes we cleared out once, but got thrown out almost immediately. We've literally done the exact same thing and somehow manage to not be demoralized, want to try again or in general want to keep fighting. We don't suddenly wait to absolve continuously when no one is around because we died a few times.
There's a difference between one domoth and four consecutive absolves which are the same senario being played out the same way each time.
Either way, arguing it here doesn't change anything.
Four consecutive absolves? I count Aeden doing way more than that, which are always the same scenario being played out exactly the same way each time, too. And much more frequently, to boot.
There's a difference between one domoth and four consecutive absolves which are the same senario being played out the same way each time.
Either way, arguing it here doesn't change anything.
I don't know if you were playing then, but there was a time when we were raided because we had nothing. Less than nothing. We were raided every 30-40 minutes (and this is not an exaggeration!) just because they could. We couldn't RP, we couldn't do theatre, or anything, because we were constantly raided.
Glomdoring had it a while before that.
But right now, all of this doesn't even compare. The disparity you see now is our own fault. Excepting a few assholes that drive the "North is bad too" stuff.
If you care, step up. The South will be delighted that you lose. Be delighted with them until we continue kicking ass!
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
There's a correlation between repeatedly avoiding all competition whenever possible, and being unable to pull off a win when things are even against people who repeatedly take risks just to play the game.
You don't get better at anything by not doing the thing.
Being "obliterated" to the point of not learning something is exceedingly rare, and generally only happens when you're like 2v15 and you just instantly wipe.
If it's mostly even and you're getting obliterated, you should be learning something.
Stahp, you're making me blush. That being said, I went bard, a class I've zero experience with, so it'll probably be a while before I'm anything more than a p5/DS bot. Neko took me four months or so to get good at. But I can provide a can do attitude!
There certainly are classes that are underpowered just because of their class. Moondancers, as far as I have been informed, have had no significant changes to their meta since they came out and were based around a mechanic that has been all but gutted (Sleep). Any attempts to improve their ability has been met with adamant refusal in the envoy process, which to be fair, could very well be the choice of envoyed ideas.
So while other classes improve and get rewrites and special reports, Moondancers stay nearly the same as the days of yore, with some minor QoL changes.
I am sure there are other classes as well. I understand Nihilists had issues, I recall there being threads about them not getting a special report, or their report being ignored.
Not, everyone can escape. Everyone has the potential to escape, but it does not mean they can do so and quite frankly no you do not learn anything from being wiped in 10 seconds repeatedly and most people are not the type to throw themselves into that situation over and over. The South is lucky in that they have those kinds of people, but expecting or worse demanding that the "other side" play your way because that is how your side plays is insulting.
There are days that I don't care and will throw myself into the fray over and over, there are days where I would rather do something other than die over and over. @Yarith is the same way from what I can see of him. Few of us in the North are like that though and most people in the North want to play the game, not be killed repeatedly. It is just not a fun time for them.
Again, though, just because the South has all the masochistic players that love their PVP does not mean everyone else does or should be forced to and telling them "You need to do it to learn" will not change the fact that they just do not want to learn, it is not a fun avenue for them.
If a person's notion of playing a competitive game is "We're only going to do things when no other people are around and there is no competition," that is what is insulting. If you want to play a single-player game, there are plenty of those available; this is not a single-player game, nor is it intended to be.
Everybody, everybody, in any class can escape. It's the most fundamental thing to learn about combat here
EDIT And sometimes the South doesn't let you. Believe me, I understand. But you can -always- escape, if that's actually your goal. You're not shut down, even if it feels like it sometimes.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Everybody, everybody, in any class can escape. It's the most fundamental thing to learn about combat here
EDIT And sometimes the South doesn't let you. Believe me, I understand. But you can -always- escape, if that's actually your goal. You're not shut down, even if it feels like it sometimes.
I will use a reference from Cynadarin: "Read" I said every class has the potential, not everyone has the ability.
Also, I hope this does not come across as to insulting, but armchair quarterbacking and telling those of us actually involved in PVP how to PVP is a tad bit.. off. Unless you are running an alt, I have not seen you in any PVP since I have started playing here. So telling us how PVP was 10 years ago or how we should "try harder" when you are not even involved...
tbh, I think a significant draw of absolving during this time is the inevitable rise it'll get from Cyndarin and Xenthos. Sort of like Synkarin tweeting during a wild nodes or whatnot.
Comments
If you can and should win some fights, isn't it worth the practice and experience to figure out what you're doing wrong so that you do win those fights? I think that's one of the things that frustrates us a bit on this side, you've got the numbers (even during the time period when we're active, your side already often has equal/more numbers, and just gets more loaded your way with the addition of people like Thul and Tarkenton), you've got some pretty strong skills, and you've got the ability to make magic happen. But instead of figuring out how to bring that all together, a lot of time is spent in avoiding the process entirely (and thus never getting across the threshold).
The fact that you guys have started participating in the absolves (that we initiate, at least) and have started doing some Domoth upgrade things / others around times when there is opposition, is great. For you as much as for us, because even if you lose, you should be figuring out what went wrong, what we did, and counters to get us next time. I remember any number of conversations in this exact same vein from our end, ending with a positive "Next time we'll get 'em!" outlook.
Sure, it might be great but it's also demoralising and frustrating and it's hard to get people to bounce back and want to go sometimes. Getting people to want to fight isn't easy, especially when they're turned off by certain names and that's something you can't control, no matter how you argue it.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
To the first: I've seen you guys come up with creative ways to get around us. That's a good first step. The thing I noticed when you got to Justice during the last one, however, were things like "Not being grouped up, being completely split, running around, and not seeming to have a plan on what to do". Things were a bit hectic on our side, too, and if you had gone in with a plan in mind / stayed coordinated, you'd have done much better imo. Getting in is just the first step, and once you've got that, it's time to work on the next.
You say this like it never happens to us either. We literally contested a domoth on Crum and wiped 3 times, without really making a lot of progress. Yes we cleared out once, but got thrown out almost immediately. We've literally done the exact same thing and somehow manage to not be demoralized, want to try again or in general want to keep fighting. We don't suddenly wait to absolve continuously when no one is around because we died a few times.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
We don't even get the chance.
Glomdoring had it a while before that.
But right now, all of this doesn't even compare. The disparity you see now is our own fault. Excepting a few assholes that drive the "North is bad too" stuff.
If you care, step up. The South will be delighted that you lose. Be delighted with them until we continue kicking ass!
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
You can always evade obliteration even if you can't kill.
Stahp, you're making me blush. That being said, I went bard, a class I've zero experience with, so it'll probably be a while before I'm anything more than a p5/DS bot. Neko took me four months or so to get good at. But I can provide a can do attitude!
And was anyone surprised? No, not really. But this is the kind of thing you guys need to address if you want to be competitive. /shrug
There certainly are classes that are underpowered just because of their class. Moondancers, as far as I have been informed, have had no significant changes to their meta since they came out and were based around a mechanic that has been all but gutted (Sleep). Any attempts to improve their ability has been met with adamant refusal in the envoy process, which to be fair, could very well be the choice of envoyed ideas.
So while other classes improve and get rewrites and special reports, Moondancers stay nearly the same as the days of yore, with some minor QoL changes.
I am sure there are other classes as well. I understand Nihilists had issues, I recall there being threads about them not getting a special report, or their report being ignored.
Not, everyone can escape. Everyone has the potential to escape, but it does not mean they can do so and quite frankly no you do not learn anything from being wiped in 10 seconds repeatedly and most people are not the type to throw themselves into that situation over and over. The South is lucky in that they have those kinds of people, but expecting or worse demanding that the "other side" play your way because that is how your side plays is insulting.
There are days that I don't care and will throw myself into the fray over and over, there are days where I would rather do something other than die over and over. @Yarith is the same way from what I can see of him. Few of us in the North are like that though and most people in the North want to play the game, not be killed repeatedly. It is just not a fun time for them.
Again, though, just because the South has all the masochistic players that love their PVP does not mean everyone else does or should be forced to and telling them "You need to do it to learn" will not change the fact that they just do not want to learn, it is not a fun avenue for them.
I will use a reference from Cynadarin: "Read" I said every class has the potential, not everyone has the ability.
Also, I hope this does not come across as to insulting, but armchair quarterbacking and telling those of us actually involved in PVP how to PVP is a tad bit.. off. Unless you are running an alt, I have not seen you in any PVP since I have started playing here. So telling us how PVP was 10 years ago or how we should "try harder" when you are not even involved...