The only reason we think Luce is town is his tracker power, right? He could easily be 3p tracker
Could be, but isn't and it's irrelevant. Right now we have 2-5 people with shaky claims or unverified actions depending on if you're drinking Lehki's Kool Aid.
The only scenarios under which Fyler might still be the killer is if they have a one shot stealth kill or a delayed kill, but it sounds like the attack last night was neither. Or if you think I'm lying, which neither third party not town has a reason to do in this situation.
More likely is that either Portius is lying about his powers or alignment, or that Othero is no longer or was never town. I believe the newsletter role in the Touhou game was in addition to other actions wasn't it?
Ushaara and Othero together basically function the same as the touhou reporter did, as I understand it. Track/watch somebody, and also report results of last night's targets.
Or how it was designed to function before scum killed/recruited them.
No, not all 3. Gardevoir said 3 non-town, not 3 scum. And we haven't seen any confirmed 3p yet. I'm guessing that it's at most 2 scum left, with probably Breandryn as a 3p, though could be anybody, really.
Interesting. I was prying because I confused about your motives here, or what your full theory in context to the three known not townies is. Stealth kill seems like an odd call considering the kill attempt was just broadcasted across the full game population.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
I feel like the mod announcement was more a function of Alec's night immunity. By stealth kill I'm just meaning something that's immune to watcher/tracker
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
And really, I can see where he's coming from. I can definitely see a Xenthos-ninja being a thing, but it may also be because I really enjoy how much this sort of role can shake things up and cast uncertainties. I like imagining ninjas in places they are not. It's a role we don't really see on our forums, though, so if Sylandra decided to include one then it would definitely be intended as a surprise (that aside, if I ever get around to modding a game you'd better go in expecting ninja shenanigans).
Was the weather report thing really Othero? I did get totally confused by that.
I might have to sift through what happened the last few days to sniff for any inconsistencies, hmm hmm hmm.
You know, I'm starting to think Luce and Fyler are both lying. Luce tracked Fyler, she's totally verified! Except perhaps they are both covering each other. Obviously someone is lying, most everyone else has multiple avenues of confirmation over multiple nights.
I'm assuming it was Othero having some fun, since it's in the same spot his last message was, and I figure he doesn't have much else to do with the power now.
Yeah, the weather was me. On nightvale they do a segment "the weather" where they play different songs. I sent Sylandra that message after hearing thunder snow outside. My ability is useless at this point so I had some fun with it.
You know, I'm starting to think Luce and Fyler are both lying. Luce tracked Fyler, she's totally verified! Except perhaps they are both covering each other. Obviously someone is lying, most everyone else has multiple avenues of confirmation over multiple nights.
Except I tracked/confirmed Lehki first. And like I said, third party or town: I have no reason TO lie. The only reason anyone thinks I might be is that I came in and said Fyler wasn't last night's culprit, which didn't fit anyone's narrative, but I'm only relaying what she didn't do. Seriously, if it weren't for the fact you all have confirmed people blocking you I'd be eyeballing SO HARD right now.
Something isn't adding up, and I actually think it is in relation to Breandryn and her power. I'm not buying that a town busdriver would switch people 'just for fun' when there is so much room for chaos and destruction. The game where we had a town busdriver, pretty sure they refrained from using their power for this reason. I just....I feel like revelation is lingering just in front of my face but I can't piece it together. But I don't trust the explanation. There's something off about bussing Celina two nights in a row too. UNLESS Celina is a scum buddy - bussing her could take her out of a possible roleblock or jailing...I'm not 100% convinced on Celina but very suspicious right now. Because we know Ssaliss was scum. And if Ssaliss and Celina were bussed as she claims, she managed to kill a scum member, but suddenly went 'well you guys think that's not cool I won't do it anymore.' Yeah. Not buying it.
Notice a trend in Lavinya's theories? She just pairs people with me and accuses them of being scum on really flimsy reasoning. The quoted time she unvoted scum (Tremula) to accuse Breandryn or bus driving scum with scum. That's certainly awkward. IMO, the most damning evidence against her given Tremula's death.
I targetted Cyndarin on Night 1. This was established well in advance of all this other kerfuffle and I've stood by it. But somehow, Tremula ended up with the pokémon I intended for Cyndarin to receive.
If Shaddus truly did target Cyndarin for a block, but Cyndarin was busdriven with Tremula as I suspect, then is it not logical to assume that Tremula was blocked instead?
I had already been cleared of that specific accusation, as noted by Vivet.
BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE. Remember the classic Lying Liars Who Lie against none other than her new target...LUCE!
Luce may be casting aspersions as to my nightly actions, BUT THE TRUTH IS I WAS NOT LYING. Another truth - if I don't meet certain criteria in my posts, my vote doesn't count. Another truth - I have no night powers. None, zero, zilch. So unless someone is able to move me without my knowledge (and without me noticing at all), then Luce is being a lying liar that lies. Or at the very least, if he comes out to say he didn't track me, he is wrong in his insinuations. He's probably Elizabeth.
Silvanus' role seems feasible, I'm inclined to believe it for now, what little he shared of his role has the ring of Sylandra's humour about it.
There's quiet people who need to weigh in I think. A big one being did anyone have a similar message to the one Shaddus had night one?
And what's that? A deflection for Silvanus in the same post. It was until several people, including myself, continued to push against Silvanus that she changed her tune.
Lavinya is erratic and dangerous, though specifically to me as she's been championing this cause for WEEKS despite being demonstrably wrong in her accusations frequently.
I think there is something up with Lavinya. Plus I can totally see Sylandra making Tekora a villain or some kind of saboteur. If you played with Tekora, you know what I'm talking about.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Oh it should also be noted that Lavinya unvoted Tremula after we confirmed the night no one died was the same night Tremula was blocked via the bus driver.
INTERESTING EH.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Maybe we should encourage a few of you to roleclaim, and just pick one that seems unlikely.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I don't know what we'd get from a mass roleclaim. Lots of people have already claimed powers and roles and all we really have is that the roles are all over the place.
@Fyler's logic seems sound - @Lavinya has hopped between targets and accusations a lot, which seems suspicious, like she's trying to start up vote trains.
Yeah, Lavinya has been very sketchy from the very beginning, I'd still be pushing on her if we didn't have this failed night kill and her being jailed. I had considered the idea that she strongmaned her way through jailer, but then getting stopped by kill immunity just doesn't make sense, even to me. Does strongman even beet being blocked/jailed? Or does it just get through protection?
Also it just occurred to me. If Vivet is shopkeeper plus has night immunity, that makes me even more suspicious of Fyler's claim of being a second night immune town but with no other power.
If there are 2 scum + 1 third party, then the other scum could have done the kill with Lavinya in jail.
Yeah, and I'm saying I think that other scum is Fyler with a ninja power. That or Portius' rez was actually a scum recruiting power and that Portius and Ushaara are the 2 scum.
I'm pretty sure Breandryn is lying, along with Fyler.
Have I jumped around a bit? Yes, but I'm probing in the dark, and reactions can be just as valuable as theory crafting. It's interesting that the two I am suspicious of keep turning around and pointing at me. Almost feels like "omg she's onto something let's call her crazy." Except, when I flip town, it's not me who is going to be looking extra suspicious.
Ps maybe Fyler is actually Elizabeth dressed up as Xenthos. (Yes that is crazy but posting requirements, guys.)
Also it just occurred to me. If Vivet is shopkeeper plus has night immunity, that makes me even more suspicious of Fyler's claim of being a second night immune town but with no other power.
It did seem a bit odd to me too, but it seems we're not the only ones. Didn't Shaddus mention something about having an immunity that implies an arsonist, and thus makes him think there has to be one lurking around? I'm pretty sure I read that earlier today.
Bad news on my side of things, though - my direct supervisor has had to go on leave quite suddenly, so I'm pretty much in charge of my wing for the time being (estimated time to be around a week). Already got some extra stuff I had to bring home tonight and finish up for the morning, so I might be very sparse a while. Sorry!
I will grudgingly acknowledge that given what people other than Ushaara and myself know, it could be Portius+Ushaara, which Ushaara as a convert on resurrection. I know that it's false, but you'd have to kill me to confirm that, and it would cost you your doctor. Or you could kill Ushaara and hope it turns up in the flip, but I think I'm probably worth less at this point and would be more likely to have the info. I still advise against it.
Now, I'm not opposed to a Lavi lynch. But since she almost certainly didn't attempt the kill for last night, I'm guessing she's not the best choice. I guess if she had something to break through jailer, but I don't think that's likely. She's a reasonable choice if we think there are two mafia at work, though.
I need to gestate ideas more, but here are some observation/conclusion pairs for you to fact check for me:
-Luce claimed that Fyler did nothing last night. ---Fyler can only have attempted the kill if there is a kill power that dodges tracking OR if Luce lied. -----If Luce lied, then the scum pair is probably Luce+Fyler. Killing/investigating one probably confirms the other's identity, since town-Luce would have no reason to lie. It could be Luce with a weird 3rd party win condition. -------Possible courses of action: Someone jails or blocks Fyler, Lehki investigates Luce. Or lynch one of them (almost certainly Fyler, since Fyler could also be solo scum) and see how the flip goes.
-Shaddus claimed to block Breandryn, who was on our list of possible scum. -Lehki has previously investigated Shaddus and confirmed him as town. ---Breandryn could only have attempted the kill if Shaddus lied. Shaddus would probably only do that if not town, which would require Lehki to have lied or get false investigation results. This is technically possible if all three not-town people are scum or Lehki is a flawed investigator, which seems unlikely. -----Course of action: None, but I wanted to give people a chance to check this and tell me why I'm wrong.
-Xeii claimed to jail Lavinya. -Lehki investigated Xeii back when she was Kira and confirmed her as town. ---Lavinya did not attempt the kill unless she can get around jailing OR if Xeii lied. -----As above, Xeii lying requires Lehki to have lied or get false investigation results. Lying seems unlikely, false results are becoming are more serious thought the more I think about it. --------Course of action: Mostly giving people a chance to tell me that I've missed something. I guess start compiling evidence to make sure we can trust Lehki? I feel like we probably can, simply because I doubt we'd go into this without an investigator. If anyone has some other type of investigation role that seems like an unlikely pair with Lehki's, absolutely speak now.
-Everyone who is not Fyler or Lavinya has claimed a role. ---If both of them are town, someone has lied. ------Course of action: Prioritize figuring those two out, either by killing or investigating.
-Othero is confirmed as a radio person and a mason, but technically not as town. -Most two person mason groups are town-town, but they can be town-scum. It's just rare. ---Course of action: Check up on Othero. This is probably a way lower priority than the other people.
------- It's late enough at night that I don't want to make decisions, and I haven't been keeping decent notes so I'm not confident that I haven't missed anything. So I'm letting thoughts brew for a while. But tentatively, it seems like the thing to do is to lynch either Fyler, Breandryn, or Lavinya, as much for information as anything else. Fyler is probably the better choice, because he could be a solo mafia person or in a group, whereas Lavinya or Breandryn would have to be in a group of mafia and have Lehki's investigations be compromised. People who are not me or Ushaara do need to entertain the idea that we could be a scum pair. That possibility hinges on me having a blatant day action res power that converts. Decide if you think that's likely.
It might be worthwhile for Lehki to take a night and investigate someone that we're really confident is town, just to be sure his investigations are accurate.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Also it just occurred to me. If Vivet is shopkeeper plus has night immunity, that makes me even more suspicious of Fyler's claim of being a second night immune town but with no other power.
It did seem a bit odd to me too, but it seems we're not the only ones. Didn't Shaddus mention something about having an immunity that implies an arsonist, and thus makes him think there has to be one lurking around? I'm pretty sure I read that earlier today.
Bad news on my side of things, though - my direct supervisor has had to go on leave quite suddenly, so I'm pretty much in charge of my wing for the time being (estimated time to be around a week). Already got some extra stuff I had to bring home tonight and finish up for the morning, so I might be very sparse a while. Sorry!
Oh you're right, Shaddus did say that. @Shaddus can you confirm, was it just arson you're claiming immunity to? If Silvanus was the arsonist, it fits thematically that he wouldn't be able to forum ban Eventru. But again, but you and Shaddus are claiming an immunity + another power, so why'd Fyler get only an immunity? And also I believe 3 kill/arson immune towns even less than 2.
Portius all that facts/considerations check out, I think. I unfortunately don't have any hard evidence on my actions, since all my targets had revealed their roles before I could name any. Though I do say that Ssaliss' investigation immunity power pretty strongly implies 1) the existence of a cop and 2) that said cop isn't going to get false readings on everybody. Sylandra would have to be a pretty cruel mod to give him that power just as a red herring otherwise, I say.
Hey I claimed my role and my powers. One time mayor and one time vote-block. Princess Claude, as made famous by Tekora, with my posting requirements forcing me to use certain Tekora-isms or my vote does not count.
Where in my explaining that earlier does it not actually reveal my role? I have no night powers, no night immunities, just two little boring day powers that are one use each - a double vote power and a vote block. Going in the space ship was my first night message yet.
Everyone has power claimed, right? It's just Luce and Lehki who haven't claimed a role? I don't know if roles themselves will give us any more to go on, but at this stage not seeing a reason to hold those back either. Unless something in their role sheet is suggesting something that makes it unwise to do so?
My own instinct for today would be to lynch Breandryn. From what she said about Togepi having to find her trainer, suggests to me that it's either going to generate an alignment shift for someone and possibly introduce a new late-game mechanic, or a win condition that will remove her from the game.
Comments
The only scenarios under which Fyler might still be the killer is if they have a one shot stealth kill or a delayed kill, but it sounds like the attack last night was neither. Or if you think I'm lying, which neither third party not town has a reason to do in this situation.
More likely is that either Portius is lying about his powers or alignment, or that Othero is no longer or was never town. I believe the newsletter role in the Touhou game was in addition to other actions wasn't it?
Or how it was designed to function before scum killed/recruited them.
Interesting. I was prying because I confused about your motives here, or what your full theory in context to the three known not townies is. Stealth kill seems like an odd call considering the kill attempt was just broadcasted across the full game population.
Fyler: Lavinya (1)
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Ninja
And really, I can see where he's coming from. I can definitely see a Xenthos-ninja being a thing, but it may also be because I really enjoy how much this sort of role can shake things up and cast uncertainties. I like imagining ninjas in places they are not. It's a role we don't really see on our forums, though, so if Sylandra decided to include one then it would definitely be intended as a surprise (that aside, if I ever get around to modding a game you'd better go in expecting ninja shenanigans).
Was the weather report thing really Othero? I did get totally confused by that.
I might have to sift through what happened the last few days to sniff for any inconsistencies, hmm hmm hmm.
Consider this as well...
So this is where Lavinya started pushing hard against me, repeatedly and consistently based on this quote by Shaddus. EXCEPT...
I had already been cleared of that specific accusation, as noted by Vivet.
BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE. Remember the classic Lying Liars Who Lie against none other than her new target...LUCE!
And what's that? A deflection for Silvanus in the same post. It was until several people, including myself, continued to push against Silvanus that she changed her tune.
Lavinya is erratic and dangerous, though specifically to me as she's been championing this cause for WEEKS despite being demonstrably wrong in her accusations frequently.
I think there is something up with Lavinya. Plus I can totally see Sylandra making Tekora a villain or some kind of saboteur. If you played with Tekora, you know what I'm talking about.
INTERESTING EH.
Also it just occurred to me. If Vivet is shopkeeper plus has night immunity, that makes me even more suspicious of Fyler's claim of being a second night immune town but with no other power.
Have I jumped around a bit? Yes, but I'm probing in the dark, and reactions can be just as valuable as theory crafting. It's interesting that the two I am suspicious of keep turning around and pointing at me. Almost feels like "omg she's onto something let's call her crazy." Except, when I flip town, it's not me who is going to be looking extra suspicious.
Ps maybe Fyler is actually Elizabeth dressed up as Xenthos.
(Yes that is crazy but posting requirements, guys.)
Bad news on my side of things, though - my direct supervisor has had to go on leave quite suddenly, so I'm pretty much in charge of my wing for the time being (estimated time to be around a week). Already got some extra stuff I had to bring home tonight and finish up for the morning, so I might be very sparse a while. Sorry!
Now, I'm not opposed to a Lavi lynch. But since she almost certainly didn't attempt the kill for last night, I'm guessing she's not the best choice. I guess if she had something to break through jailer, but I don't think that's likely. She's a reasonable choice if we think there are two mafia at work, though.
I need to gestate ideas more, but here are some observation/conclusion pairs for you to fact check for me:
-Luce claimed that Fyler did nothing last night.
---Fyler can only have attempted the kill if there is a kill power that dodges tracking OR if Luce lied.
-----If Luce lied, then the scum pair is probably Luce+Fyler. Killing/investigating one probably confirms the other's identity, since town-Luce would have no reason to lie. It could be Luce with a weird 3rd party win condition.
-------Possible courses of action: Someone jails or blocks Fyler, Lehki investigates Luce. Or lynch one of them (almost certainly Fyler, since Fyler could also be solo scum) and see how the flip goes.
-Shaddus claimed to block Breandryn, who was on our list of possible scum.
-Lehki has previously investigated Shaddus and confirmed him as town.
---Breandryn could only have attempted the kill if Shaddus lied. Shaddus would probably only do that if not town, which would require Lehki to have lied or get false investigation results. This is technically possible if all three not-town people are scum or Lehki is a flawed investigator, which seems unlikely.
-----Course of action: None, but I wanted to give people a chance to check this and tell me why I'm wrong.
-Xeii claimed to jail Lavinya.
-Lehki investigated Xeii back when she was Kira and confirmed her as town.
---Lavinya did not attempt the kill unless she can get around jailing OR if Xeii lied.
-----As above, Xeii lying requires Lehki to have lied or get false investigation results. Lying seems unlikely, false results are becoming are more serious thought the more I think about it.
--------Course of action: Mostly giving people a chance to tell me that I've missed something. I guess start compiling evidence to make sure we can trust Lehki? I feel like we probably can, simply because I doubt we'd go into this without an investigator. If anyone has some other type of investigation role that seems like an unlikely pair with Lehki's, absolutely speak now.
-Everyone who is not Fyler or Lavinya has claimed a role.
---If both of them are town, someone has lied.
------Course of action: Prioritize figuring those two out, either by killing or investigating.
-Othero is confirmed as a radio person and a mason, but technically not as town.
-Most two person mason groups are town-town, but they can be town-scum. It's just rare.
---Course of action: Check up on Othero. This is probably a way lower priority than the other people.
-------
It's late enough at night that I don't want to make decisions, and I haven't been keeping decent notes so I'm not confident that I haven't missed anything. So I'm letting thoughts brew for a while. But tentatively, it seems like the thing to do is to lynch either Fyler, Breandryn, or Lavinya, as much for information as anything else. Fyler is probably the better choice, because he could be a solo mafia person or in a group, whereas Lavinya or Breandryn would have to be in a group of mafia and have Lehki's investigations be compromised. People who are not me or Ushaara do need to entertain the idea that we could be a scum pair. That possibility hinges on me having a blatant day action res power that converts. Decide if you think that's likely.
It might be worthwhile for Lehki to take a night and investigate someone that we're really confident is town, just to be sure his investigations are accurate.
Portius all that facts/considerations check out, I think. I unfortunately don't have any hard evidence on my actions, since all my targets had revealed their roles before I could name any. Though I do say that Ssaliss' investigation immunity power pretty strongly implies 1) the existence of a cop and 2) that said cop isn't going to get false readings on everybody. Sylandra would have to be a pretty cruel mod to give him that power just as a red herring otherwise, I say.
Where in my explaining that earlier does it not actually reveal my role? I have no night powers, no night immunities, just two little boring day powers that are one use each - a double vote power and a vote block. Going in the space ship was my first night message yet.
My own instinct for today would be to lynch Breandryn. From what she said about Togepi having to find her trainer, suggests to me that it's either going to generate an alignment shift for someone and possibly introduce a new late-game mechanic, or a win condition that will remove her from the game.