Why'd y'all roleblock me after Arix turned out to be the cultist?
Anyway, we've learned important information here. Arix converted 1 person among the 6 of us Night 2. Can recruits recruit townies, or is it just the cultist who can recruit?
If recruits can do it, another person got converted Night 3 because I was roleblocked. So we're looking at 4 townies, 2 mafia. A third of us are fishy.
If only the cultist can recruit, we're very close to a win. 5 townies, 1 mafia.
I'm sorry, I've had work this weekend and didn't get a chance to check in much. If you'll notice though, I was ready to vote for him before it got resolved in my absence.
The role text I got doesn't specify if the read comes from the end or beginning of the night, just describes that I stand before the home and "listen intently for signs of lingering evil." Lingering is an interesting word choice that may or may not have ramifications, but who knows.
Speaking of which, given Arix was the cultist and Devora didn't "receive" the evil aura the night before, I investigated Lavinya in case she'd been slacking in the roleblocking department on purpose, but no such luck. I've never even played with the cultist mechanic before, so what in god's name is a possessed?! Could a possession, like, move between people more than once?
Can I suggest looking at the people who didn't vote up Arix? Devora and Nylili didn't vote him up. I have a feeling our investigator is compromised...
I was going to vote for him if you hadn't flipped, and I made a vocal case for him, but I waited because I kept expecting his recruit to pop out of the woodwork to defend him and tip the majority opinion in favor of killing me or no kill. Would have given us a good idea of who to go after.
It's very odd to find Nylili the most suspicious person out of all of us. She cleared me Day 3. If Arix had converted her Night 2, why on earth would she do that? She'd say she investigated Arix and he was clear, and I would have promptly gotten killed instead of Arix. Big break for mafia.
Well, let's talk about what we do know. We already knew Arix recruited someone, so it wasn't a surprise to me that it got mentioned at the end of day. We don't know what the Possessed can do, if it can recruit or if it just exists with some other powers. Assuming it can recruit, then there is the possibility of a new recruit. But there's also the possibility that this new person got roleblocked as well and stopped it. So until we get information rolling again we're kind of just on ideas on how this all works.
It is weird, though, if @Arix did NOT convert either the investigator or the roleblocker Night 2. Those were the prime targets. He may have been worried the roleblocker would protect the investigator? But why not target the roleblocker? On what basis did Arix choose his ideal convert?
Assuming it can recruit, then there is the possibility of a new recruit. But there's also the possibility that this new person got roleblocked as well and stopped it.
No, bc I got roleblocked. Like I said, either the recruit can recruit, so we have 2/6 mafia, or they can't, so we have 1/6 mafia. Or it's something different like Nylili said, and the recruit can possess people more fluidly than the conventional recruitment method.
Ah so @Lehki clarified to me it does check end-of-night. So that simplifies the math a little, I suppose. Do you actually get notified that you're roleblocked overnight?
@Devora I mean, the possibilities I listed can still be a thing, even if you're roleblocked.
Not from my perspective, but I see where you're coming from. Does someone have a good reason to think the recruit was me and I got roleblocked?
Here's my reasoning:
If there was a Night 1 conversion, it does not explain who visited Coraline, so I think there was none. What do other people think?
Arix could not have converted me Night 2, bc Nylili cleared me at the end of the night.
If Arix converted Nylili Night 2, and she converted me Night 3, please explain a) why she cleared me Day 3, b) why she converted me Night 3 when I was one of the most likely townies to be roleblocked, or c) why she just cleared Lavinya, who in this scenario is a townie.
Nylili's actions don't make sense to me if she got converted by Arix.
Well, if Nylili is the possessed, grabbing you after clearing you would make sense, since suspicion was lifted from you. You being roleblocked wouldn't stop you getting recruit, at least it shouldn't. As for clearing Lavinya, probably to verify that her story is straight about missing the roleblock.
However, the reason I can give for why there can be suspicion of you being the possessed, Devora, is just that it would be a good separator to distance you from Arix. It is a reason that could be possible, the actual question is how likely is it? So let's go over what we know again I suppose:
1) Nylili is investigator - Lycidas, Devora, Lavinya are her searches and all came clean at time of search
2) Lavinya is roleblocker - Blocked Sylandra, none, Devora are her blocks
3) Coraline is pious - At this point the only verified and permanent town
4) Lycidas - cleared through Night 1
5) Devora - cleared through Night 2, was possible Cultist candidate
6) Sylandra - Roleblocked Night 1, was cleared of suspicion Day 2 because of it
So essentially we're dealing with everyone having a clean nose of sorts, whether through their perspective or recent clearing (today mainly). Anything I've missed?
Something that occurred to me after I posted that and started reading it back, calling the roleblocker innocent, and a confirmed role block reads town to me, so we're kind of in this limbo of all the power roles seemingly functioning the way they should. I'm not saying it is 100% the case, as the scum knows who is innocent or not, but it is a starting point. Let us discuss and see if we can't find things that start to not add up. Because at least to me, it seems the cultist and possessed have left the power roles alone, which is actually more weird to me than anything.
Possibly not the best choice for it, I admit I kind of raced so I didn't miss it this time and didn't think it through, but my half-thought was that Devora didn't vote Arix.
I did just have a new thought though - it would be super clever to convert someone we had already cleared. So while we're confirming our innocents, they may no longer be innocents as of night 2 (and yes that does include me I guess), though Devora didn't get up to anything last night and she confirms what I was up to, and by her level of annoyance that I blocked her I don't think it's a concocted lie!
I figure the possessed must act similarly to the cultist, also. I mean it's a presumption I could be wrong, but it means the cult continues with a similar win condition/passing of evilness.
Right now I am reassessing the guilt of Lycidas, Sylandra and Coraline. I think if Nylili was guilty she could have not cleared me, instead clearing someone she already knew was guilty and letting us point fingers elsewhere, so for the moment not suspicious there.
The only way I could be converted is if the cultist (or possessed in this case if they can) and someone else visited me at the same time. I didn't get any visits last night. You claim to visit Devora and Devora has confirmed it. The investigator also claims to have visited you and cleared you.
At this point, if you suspect me, you might think that I was lying from the beginning. My defense to that is: I don't think I'm imaginative enough to make up all these details.
You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
Ahh more I was wondering if your protection only lasted one night. Are you free from conversion forever? Seems pretty strong and a big coincidence to be visited by two people at once as the only way to convert. More logical to me would be the first visit you'd be immune but it wouldn't last. It's something I wonder about anyway. Chances it's you aren't nearly as high in my mind as the others though. I'm looking long and hard at them.
My role pm said that any visit would break my meditation and my meditation (which I automatically go into every night) protects me from conversion. I clarified if I would get converted if only the cultist visited me, I was told that no. It would have to be cultist and one more person.
I think the difference is that I revealed my role early, which is not normally the way to go about it (now that everyone knows my role, the cultist will go after a more easily convertable townie). The cultist visited me the first day, which made them realize my role, but I still didn't know who visited me. It was only because the investigator claimed to visit someone else and no cc that I took a guess that it might have been the cultist and decided to be completely open about my role.
It was a bold gamble, but ultimately I was lucky because it actually turned out to be the cultist.
(I was also told that I would be a "surprise victory" role if there was only me and cultist left, whereas if it was cultist and one town, cult wins. So much for that now, heh)
You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
I agree Lavinya, my list was just going over what we knew about each of the remaining players, and I might be wrong, but I'm certain I also stated that prior cleared people could be converted. Also, it is a safe presumption that the possessed works like the cultist, otherwise I fail to see how this could be fair. Most of us believed the cultist and now possessed would pick up people with roles to make things easier. That is either the case and some gymnastics are being done, or cultist/possessed went the route of non roles. I know my position in all this, but that won't fly anymore. So I'm going to lay out possibilities that I see, in no particular order.
1) Arix grabbed a power role to become the possessed
a) Possessed grabbed a power role to become the recruit
b) Possessed grabbed a villager to become the recruit
2) Arix grabbed a villager to become the possessed
a) Same as 1
b) Same as 1
This means a few combinations -could- happen. Key word, COULD, some more likely than others.
Arix -> Lavinya -> Devora (Requires them being able to discuss at night to achieve this claiming and confirming)
Arix -> Nylili -> Sylandra/Lycidas/Devora
Arix -> Syl/Lyc -> Nylili/Devora/The other
Arix -> Devora -> None (Because roleblock)
I think that covers all the actual combinations that could exist, please correct me if I missed one.
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I was at work all day!! You impatient whippersnappers.
Here's a thought. What if the Possessed is a serial killer? That would be how I'd personally balance a game like this. In which case, @Devora would be a good pick just to test that theory. But that's just me musing aloud.
In terms of power roles, obviously @Nylili and @Lavinya are useful. @Lycidas honestly seems like a good pick to me too, here. He's been very vocal and steering a lot of the game. It'd be wise to convert someone like that early on.
Personally, I want to re-assess the vote trains and reactions to them. Who voted Arix, who didn't, and who fought the hardest against that train.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Here's the votes of the game thus far! Correct me if I missed anything. --------DAY 2---------- Arix D2 Vote Train: Sylandra (unvoted); Coraline ( , unvoted); Lavinya
Side Observations: -Lycidas pushed very hard for Kistan over Arix on Day 1. -Lavinya pushed hard for Arix over Kistan and did not move trains.
--------DAY 3---------- Arix D3 Vote Train: Lavinya, Sylandra, Lycidas, Coraline ( ) Devora D3 Vote Train: Arix ( ), Coraline ( , unvoted) Side Observations: -Devora pushed hard, early and repeatedly for an Arix train, even though she didn't vote Arix. -Lavinya and Sylandra consistently voted early for Arix on D2 and D3. -Lycidas only moved to the Arix vote train once the day was ending, but did not ever vote Devora. -Nylili is the only one who didn't vote Arix D3.
Conclusions I personally draw from the above: -I think it is unlikely that @Lavinya is the Possessed due to her Arix voting history. -I think it is almost as unlikely that @Devora is the Possessed due to Arix voting her + her early and aggressive attacks on Arix on D3. -Therefore my picks based on examining the above vote trains are @Lycidas who conveniently always seemed to delay an Arix lynch, or @Nylili who didn't vote Arix and was a prime conversion pick due to being investigator.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Whoops need to amend this bit:
*Nylili and Devora are the only ones who didn't vote Arix D3.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Let me put it this way, I didn't push for Arix because I honestly believed Kistan was the most suspicious, being the only one that didn't draw attention to themselves and had zero participation. Yes, I quick voted to Arix because we were running out of time. You'll notice that I said I would vote before day end, I just wanted to get more conversation....which we didn't get. Looking at strictly votes doesn't really help, because it doesn't help the current situation, only illuminates the past. This mode of the game can't really use scum reads from the past simply because of how the scum changes.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I disagree that votes should be discarded simply because it’s a cult game.
It wouldn’t make sense for the Possessed to vote Arix on D3. Point blank cut and dry. At that point in time we know Arix had a teammate. It’s disingenous to not acknowledge that.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
It is also disingenuous not to acknowledge that what is referred to as a bus can be the case. For those not familiar, the term is just short-hand for "Throwing under the bus" to make you seem more town than you are. But if we -do- go by the votes only, then I guess I'm pretty town, considering all my votes align with the interest of the town based on the relevant knowledge we had at that time. My only fracture was Kistan, and so far nobody seems to have the ability or reason to doubt why I pushed for it. I've been vocally for the town and constantly supplying logic, reasoning, and strategies for the town to win. With that being said, you stated I "conveniently always seemed to delay an Arix lynch" is in and of itself, false. Let us review, if you will!
D2 - We had no information, we have two people make wild claims, then it was dusted away as liars. Kistan seemed suspicious so I pointed it out. I didn't delay the Arix lynch, I avoided it. Oh, did I mention that this day was when we -KNEW- no recruiting happened? My reasoning for not lynching Arix was simple, admission like that was just a gamethrow and a breaking of the rules, so I just stopped paying attention to the thread because it should've been over. Had I lynched with the train, we would've won that day, sure. Suffice to say, my actions on that day where I was named clear by the Investigator I led the lynch on Kistan because honestly, he was the most suspicious.
D3 - We have a conversion due to lack of roleblocking and of course Arix now knowing that Coraline wasn't able to be converted. Yet again, the bandwagon was -STRAIGHT- onto Arix and I wasn't comfortable with that just yet, in which I stated. I wanted to make damned certain that we made all players aware that he wasn't the only possibility. I still voted for him and I even stated that I found him suspicious, and that I would vote near the end of the day. I did just that. So where's the convenience of me delaying? Anybody who's been watching the thread and participating knows that what I've said and done is for a town win.
Sure D2 was a hiccup, but can you honestly blame me for not wanting to lynch him then based on him claiming he was cultist and that he was just throwing the game away? An experienced forum mafia player doing that and blatantly breaking the rules?? That to me, sounds more convenient than anything I've done.
Right now, I'm still not fully convinced of our investigator's innocence. Lycidas is also a little suspicious to me, not because of his actions on D2, but because of his waiting till the last minute to vote (and at the time it wasn't because one more vote was needed for a lynch. If I hadn't changed my vote at the last minute, the day would've gone by with no lynch. I didn't want to change my vote because on D2 I felt like I was forced to change my vote to make a lynch happen, which was a wrong call, so I wanted to stick to my option D3.)
Devora too, but to a lesser extent than the two above.
That being said, these are just possibilities, as in there is no reason any of them couldn't be the possessed, not that I strongly believe that either of them is one. Frankly, I don't have enough evidence/reason to strongly suspect anyone. But if I were to pick some people I'd be suspicious of, then this is my answer.
You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
Great, we have two cultist picks and then we have a converted person. If we lynch one, block the other, we cannot afford for that person to not be blocked. I guess we're just going to vote train Arix since everybody is so sold on him, right?
Arix has never left my radar, and I've done my due diligence and made sure I list him as a suspect in every scenario I outline. My goal for all this was to make sure that everyone knew that Devora also wasn't clear. So I'm going to do one last scenario line-up to make sure we have a plan. This is going to be based off what makes sense versus what -might- actually be the case:
1) We lynch one (Arix/Devora) and they flip Villager. Lavinya roleblocks the one still alive.
a) If we get a death at night (recruit killing themselves) they we -SHOULD- have the cultist guaranteed
b) Investigator should check out someone they're unsure of that ISN'T of our cultist suspects
2) We lynch one (Arix/Devora) and they flip Cultist. We then go through the process of investigating the town one by one to root out the recruit ... or they give up and kill themselves to speed up the process.
a) Less glorious and less 'fun' but I'm here to win.
b) If Investigator finds someone is guilty and we lynch them, and it's wrong...well 'GG' we know who the recruit is, huh?
Anyway I look at it, this is auto win for town, so long as Lavinya is actually town still as a roleblocker. Last scenario is as follows
3) We lynch one (Arix/Devora) and they flip Villager. Lavinya doesn't roleblock the one still alive.
a) Recruit kills themselves and Cultist is able to recruit again (purely hypothetical, noting makes me think this is possible, but worse case scenario)
b) Recruit doesn't kill themselves and keeps a two-man team to try and cause confusion for the longer run. This is only effective if Investigator is no longer the investigator, see 2b for how to handle.
If I've made our situation clear, then lets just get this over with. I'm town and I'm certain nobody reads me as the recruit, and I've done my damnedest to steer town to a victory through logic.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
Anyway, we've learned important information here. Arix converted 1 person among the 6 of us Night 2. Can recruits recruit townies, or is it just the cultist who can recruit?
If recruits can do it, another person got converted Night 3 because I was roleblocked. So we're looking at 4 townies, 2 mafia. A third of us are fishy.
If only the cultist can recruit, we're very close to a win. 5 townies, 1 mafia.
The role text I got doesn't specify if the read comes from the end or beginning of the night, just describes that I stand before the home and "listen intently for signs of lingering evil." Lingering is an interesting word choice that may or may not have ramifications, but who knows.
Speaking of which, given Arix was the cultist and Devora didn't "receive" the evil aura the night before, I investigated Lavinya in case she'd been slacking in the roleblocking department on purpose, but no such luck. I've never even played with the cultist mechanic before, so what in god's name is a possessed?! Could a possession, like, move between people more than once?
It's very odd to find Nylili the most suspicious person out of all of us. She cleared me Day 3. If Arix had converted her Night 2, why on earth would she do that? She'd say she investigated Arix and he was clear, and I would have promptly gotten killed instead of Arix. Big break for mafia.
Here's my reasoning:
If there was a Night 1 conversion, it does not explain who visited Coraline, so I think there was none. What do other people think?
Arix could not have converted me Night 2, bc Nylili cleared me at the end of the night.
If Arix converted Nylili Night 2, and she converted me Night 3, please explain a) why she cleared me Day 3, b) why she converted me Night 3 when I was one of the most likely townies to be roleblocked, or c) why she just cleared Lavinya, who in this scenario is a townie.
Nylili's actions don't make sense to me if she got converted by Arix.
Possibly not the best choice for it, I admit I kind of raced so I didn't miss it this time and didn't think it through, but my half-thought was that Devora didn't vote Arix.
I did just have a new thought though - it would be super clever to convert someone we had already cleared. So while we're confirming our innocents, they may no longer be innocents as of night 2 (and yes that does include me I guess), though Devora didn't get up to anything last night and she confirms what I was up to, and by her level of annoyance that I blocked her I don't think it's a concocted lie!
I figure the possessed must act similarly to the cultist, also. I mean it's a presumption I could be wrong, but it means the cult continues with a similar win condition/passing of evilness.
Right now I am reassessing the guilt of Lycidas, Sylandra and Coraline. I think if Nylili was guilty she could have not cleared me, instead clearing someone she already knew was guilty and letting us point fingers elsewhere, so for the moment not suspicious there.
At this point, if you suspect me, you might think that I was lying from the beginning. My defense to that is: I don't think I'm imaginative enough to make up all these details.
I think the difference is that I revealed my role early, which is not normally the way to go about it (now that everyone knows my role, the cultist will go after a more easily convertable townie). The cultist visited me the first day, which made them realize my role, but I still didn't know who visited me. It was only because the investigator claimed to visit someone else and no cc that I took a guess that it might have been the cultist and decided to be completely open about my role.
It was a bold gamble, but ultimately I was lucky because it actually turned out to be the cultist.
(I was also told that I would be a "surprise victory" role if there was only me and cultist left, whereas if it was cultist and one town, cult wins. So much for that now, heh)
Here's a thought. What if the Possessed is a serial killer? That would be how I'd personally balance a game like this. In which case, @Devora would be a good pick just to test that theory. But that's just me musing aloud.
In terms of power roles, obviously @Nylili and @Lavinya are useful. @Lycidas honestly seems like a good pick to me too, here. He's been very vocal and steering a lot of the game. It'd be wise to convert someone like that early on.
Personally, I want to re-assess the vote trains and reactions to them. Who voted Arix, who didn't, and who fought the hardest against that train.
--------DAY 2----------
Arix D2 Vote Train:
Sylandra (unvoted); Coraline (
Kistan D2 Vote Train:
Nylili; Lycidas; Sylandra; Arix (
Side Observations:
-Lycidas pushed very hard for Kistan over Arix on Day 1.
-Lavinya pushed hard for Arix over Kistan and did not move trains.
--------DAY 3----------
Arix D3 Vote Train:
Lavinya, Sylandra, Lycidas, Coraline (
Devora D3 Vote Train:
Arix (
Side Observations:
-Devora pushed hard, early and repeatedly for an Arix train, even though she didn't vote Arix.
-Lavinya and Sylandra consistently voted early for Arix on D2 and D3.
-Lycidas only moved to the Arix vote train once the day was ending, but did not ever vote Devora.
-Nylili is the only one who didn't vote Arix D3.
Conclusions I personally draw from the above:
-I think it is unlikely that @Lavinya is the Possessed due to her Arix voting history.
-I think it is almost as unlikely that @Devora is the Possessed due to Arix voting her + her early and aggressive attacks on Arix on D3.
-Therefore my picks based on examining the above vote trains are @Lycidas who conveniently always seemed to delay an Arix lynch, or @Nylili who didn't vote Arix and was a prime conversion pick due to being investigator.
*Nylili and Devora are the only ones who didn't vote Arix D3.
It wouldn’t make sense for the Possessed to vote Arix on D3. Point blank cut and dry. At that point in time we know Arix had a teammate. It’s disingenous to not acknowledge that.
Devora too, but to a lesser extent than the two above.
That being said, these are just possibilities, as in there is no reason any of them couldn't be the possessed, not that I strongly believe that either of them is one. Frankly, I don't have enough evidence/reason to strongly suspect anyone. But if I were to pick some people I'd be suspicious of, then this is my answer.
It's like people are willfully ignoring all the posts I made or something.
I also disagree - @Devora also got a lot of heat yesterday. Arix was hardly the only name under consideration.