Gonna have to agree that making proposals about entire skillsets without Estarra (formally) unveiling about how the new system will work is pointless right now.
So let them work out their kinks, get that character shell out, then we can talk about how poor underpowered class X could use the help right now.
I like the idea of the current complexity, thinking of ways to optimise is fun. But really it outfaces me. Three years and I've still not got into combat even with the great systems available to take care of curing.
The answer to - should we start a thread brainstorming the afflictions - is no. It's a good idea and might be helpful at some point but not this point.
Making. The. Answer. No.
Not maybe, not if I clap my hands i can bring fairies back to life, not dependent on my faith in anyone or in any process, based on how things work - in this, the actual world- the answer is no.
It was a good question from a smart cookie trying to be helpful, but the answer is no.
You seem to be terribly confused. Nobody has mentioned starting a discussion about afflictions, about balancing classes, nothing of the sort.
The question was asking the playerbase: is the idea desirable, despite holding off on developing other content for the game?
That's all that was asked, but you are turning it into something completely different. So you are saying 'Yes' to the shells, but 'No' to them making those shells?
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
You seem to be terribly confused. Nobody has mentioned starting a discussion about afflictions, about balancing classes, nothing of the sort.
The question was asking the playerbase: is the idea desirable, despite holding off on developing other content for the game?
Someone did ask a question along those lines at some point just before the back-and-forth started. I assumed there was a misunderstanding here, you were both starting to confuse me :P
Haven't read all of the thread yet, but I'm excited for the combat overhaul. m&m will also be appropriately updated to be a useful feature in the new combat design
Haven't read all of the thread yet, but I'm excited for the combat overhaul. m&m will also be appropriately updated to be a useful feature in the new combat design
Shaddus wants to hear more about this "wearing the skin of small children" game. I don't think I purchased that DLC for Lusternia.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Hello. I havent read through all this because im only here for a bit, but I would like to give me insight on this matter.
One of the biggest problems of Lusternia in my opinion is the overload of combat mechanics. I honestly feel extremely overwhelmed at the idea of trying to get back into it because there seems to be so much. I mean considering when I went dormant to now, there are already 7 new skills I have to get to know, added with the concept of new curio boosts, affliction system, warning messages, new forms of demesnes, more and more.
if combat and mechanics could just be toned down just a bit, and all put into a more mainstream focus, I dont know maybe that would make it all look easier. But thing is, I can never actually attempt to come back in my current state and feel like a newbie trying to learn the game again at my current level.
edit: Also Ikon... Another form of player challenging? What is it O.O
Would a thread in Ideas regarding what
afflictions / how various archtypes could be converted over to the new
system be appropriate or useful at this point?
No; my understanding is that the first thing to
do is to make one shell, and at that point the underlying fundamentals
for the new system will be in place. At that time, it will be more
appropriate to discuss the afflictions and revamping archetypes (once
it's actually possible to begin seeing thing in action).
Otherwise
it's just a whole bunch of theorycrafting way ahead of time, and that's
a good way to get bogged down in details that just don't matter right
now. They need a framework to drape the canvas on first!
No; my understanding is that the first thing to
do is to make one shell, and at that point the underlying fundamentals
for the new system will be in place. At that time, it will be more
appropriate to discuss the afflictions and revamping archetypes (once
it's actually possible to begin seeing thing in action).
Otherwise
it's just a whole bunch of theorycrafting way ahead of time, and that's
a good way to get bogged down in details that just don't matter right
now. They need a framework to drape the canvas on first!
Every idea is theorycraft before it is executed. Is that a 'No' to
introducing a change in combat mechanics, or a 'No' to how you perceive
the admin would go about implementing said changes?
It's a no, it is way too early to get into all of that.
Going through details like that without knowing the context is literally a waste of time. The next move is theirs. Once they give us a framework to use then we can start playing with it.
I'm under the impression that they would only bother with the shells if there was a definite decision on the matter. As Estarra mentioned, it would require all resources to be focused on the project. It was also said that there would be a test server, etc. So your 'No' is more like a 'Maybe'.
Making a decision like this for any MUD is huge, and I don't think any of the admin take it as a blase thing. Have a little faith in their process.
They are asking on a much broader level right now. Putting together the underlying code for the shells will take a fair bit of time, yes, but far less than the complete overhaul will take (revamping all skillsets, all afflictions, etc). For one shell all they need is the framework and then a simpler set of initial changes.
The problem is that it will take quite a bit of time to get that shell up and going, and any theorycrafting on what nitpicky little details will occur when this aff or that class get reworked is absolutely meaningless right now. It serves zero purpose except to be a distraction, and will just bog down the whole discussion.
Thus, his no is indeed a no. To be cliche, you want to put the cart before the horse here... and the cart does not even have wheels yet. That poor horse is going to starve before it goes anywhere.
The answer to - should we start a thread brainstorming the afflictions - is no. It's a good idea and might be helpful at some point but not this point.
Making. The. Answer. No.
Not maybe, not if I clap my hands i can bring fairies back to life, not dependent on my faith in anyone or in any process, based on how things work - in this, the actual world- the answer is no.
It was a good question from a smart cookie trying to be helpful, but the answer is no.
You seem to be terribly confused. Nobody has mentioned starting a discussion about afflictions, about balancing classes, nothing of the sort.
The question was asking the playerbase: is the idea desirable, despite holding off on developing other content for the game?
That's all that was asked, but you are turning it into something completely different. So you are saying 'Yes' to the shells, but 'No' to them making those shells?
So, just to be clear: Someone did indeed ask if we should start discussing afflictions, a "no" was given in response, and you started arguing about the "no".
I'd be willing to give the game a go again were this to happen. I know I haven't bothered logging in for several months now, but I would see this as nothing but a positive thing for Lusternia. Plus, potentially easier to get into combat would make my case trying to recruit fellow CS dept. nerds a lot easier.
I'd be willing to give the game a go again were this to happen. I know I haven't bothered logging in for several months now, but I would see this as nothing but a positive thing for Lusternia. Plus, potentially easier to get into combat would make my case trying to recruit fellow CS dept. nerds a lot easier.
Same here. I quit playing this last time because I realized I just didn't have the time to invest to become remotely decent at PvP. The non-pvp stuff is also fun and interesting, but I was still so discouraged I just dropped the game.
I had quit playing a while ago, largely due to the barrier entry to combat - I've never had any aspirations to top-tier but basic involvement was daunting. I came to the forums the other day in a random act of boredom and a mild interest in what had gone on since last I played. Seeing this thread got me excited enough to make a character and give it another shot. There's plenty besides combat to occupy me, but I like this direction and its reception.
So, just to be clear: Someone did indeed ask if we should start discussing afflictions, a "no" was given in response, and you started arguing about the "no".
Just to be clear, Estarra asked a question which (most of you) seem to have glossed over in favour of Iytha's. I was inquiring about the 'No.' There was no argument in it.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
So, just to be clear: Someone did indeed ask if we should start discussing afflictions, a "no" was given in response, and you started arguing about the "no".
Just to be clear, Estarra asked a question which (most of you) seem to have glossed over in favour of Iytha's. I was inquiring about the 'No.' There was no argument in it.
The "no" was pretty obviously in direct response to the question in the post directly before it. I'm not sure what thread you've been reading here, but nobody has "glossed over" Estarra's question whatsoever. You have simply to read it to see a whole lot of support in favour of the idea (including from me!). In fact, the only reason that Iytha's question got any response at all above and beyond the initial "no" was your questioning of it. Without that it would have petered out after a whole two posts.
I would like to reiterate that the cost of fully committing to this project is pretty much putting all other development on hold for up to a year. Would it still be desirable?
Speaking as someone who's been in and out over the last year, a moratorium on the "feature creep" you referred to at the top of the thread, would frankly be welcome. I know there's a drive to keep it fresh for the people here every day, but for others, it can be overwhelming to log in and see the wave of new stuff they have to learn/acquire - like the game has passed them by, they can't just jump in again.
It sounds like this project would pare it all down some, so people will only have to re-learn everything again once (as opposed to every time). If you go the whole nine and announce a launch date for the new system, that would probably draw a crowd of people looking to restart on more level ground (where everyone will be re-learning at the same time.)
When you refer to all other development - does that include events?
What would you do about the envoy system? Is there any point to spending a lot of time on stuff that's going to be replaced anyway?
I wonder if part of this will be getting rid of XP loss, now that Imperian just removed it.
Saaga, Estara said it wouldn't really affect events and plots and new areas, since there's a seperation between those working on code and those who don't. I think the only major thing that might happen is a lot of times something new is released during the climax of the "season arc", which means we won't see a lot of new mechanics if this comes out.
Statistics would be rethought and redone, including the
removal of size and possibly adding more statistics. The end result would be
combat oriented, probably dividing statistics into two types: (1) those that
impact physical combat, and (2) those that impact non-physical combat.
Anyways, back on track.
This post makes it sound like they want to change the mechanics of stats completely. There are some MUDs which have also created stat packages for each race. For example, a "pious merian" would have more charisma than lets say, a "stalwart merian".
Rather than adding/changing new stats, would it be easier to have races remain largely the same, but add stat packages across the board for versatility if one wants to focus specifically on influencing or combat?
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
I think they specifically said they would avoid stat packages and base it on what Archetype you choose--stat enhancements would be based on whether you were a Guardian, Mage, Warrior, etc.
It has been said repeatedly that stat packs are not something that will happen. The compromise was race hats.
I would think that, by the tone of the overview, they would stick to this, as te idea is that some races would still be better suited for certain archetypes.
So is the desire to overhaul everything or fix what we have down (if that is an option)?
I don't know about removing every aff, but I can remove 20+ personally.
The less affs we have the less we can stack and the less cures we want to avoid things being too easy.
So do people actually want a full overhaul? Making sure this isn't a shiny factor. I had a Malarious report on affs, but no reason to do it if we are overhauling anyway. To avoid spam on here, you can also msg or tell me in game what you prefer. I like to do my thing, and that is bein an ideas and design person, I just need to know where we want to go.
P.S. The features werent the problem, it was the power creep resulting from it. A new skill like cooking is fine, it doesnt add DMP or major buffs, but origami did alot more, the fact we have like 4 different cures now (potion, sparkle, scroll, beast) when we started with 1 - 2 is part of the issue. DMP, buffs, etc all grow over time with every new trade basically. Trades do more damage in terms of keeping par than most other changes to skillsets and such.
Lithmeria's aff system is each aff has an aff weight (max of 99ish I believe) but not all affs give max, some things are like 30 of this, 30 of that, but your cures can be told what to cure in what order, so you can cure all of aff 1 and half of aff 2, etc.
One of the biggest issues around power creep is the strength of artifacts/dingbats and curios. You could balance the game to be perfect in a homogenised world where everyone is completely the same (note: I loathe homogenisation, it kills off the character of a game when you can't distance yourself from "the mob" in one aspect or another, please don't ever "dumb down" the game to that level!) But the second you throw in force multipliers balance goes back out the window, and becomes somewhat a game of the haves, and have nots again.
One of my better thoughts I had on this, and the availability of artifacts to the playerbase in general (thus mitigating the power creep, and giving newer players a means to invest without the feeling of "Welcome to Lusternia, please leave your Paypal/Card details at the door!" from the get go.) is to have a select number of artifacts also be available for a fixed gold price, various L1 runes, pipe/vial runes, possibly RoA/Collar too. The effect from this would be two fold:
1: You'd set (roughly) a standard rate for the credit market that fairly reflects the available disposable income to the average Joe. 2: You'd create a meaningful gold sink into the game, something the game really lacks (imagine for richer players the option to buy artifacts for friends with gold for example.)
(Also you'd end up with more people than Shaddus making alts* because it'd be easier to get some form of investment into their character, but I wasn't sure if that's a positive or not >.>)
Gold drops and earnings can be regulated in the game already via code, so the income flow to any one player is always in the control of the admin, you can essentially control the market through soft caps in artifact prices. People sell too low and it'd become more profitable to buy credits off the market for their artifacts, too high and people will just buy artifacts and trade in for credits, there would be a happy range for the market to fluctuate between, but certainly not to the degree where one month they can be 9k and the next 35k+
So yes you'd still have power creep via force multipliers, but by creating an entry level tier, you'd be closing down that gap between players, while still allowing for people to feel justified in their investments.
*Shaddus would also probably just make more alts. Who am I kidding, he'll make more alts anyway; but that's neither here nor there.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Comments
You seem to be terribly confused. Nobody has mentioned starting a discussion about afflictions, about balancing classes, nothing of the sort.
The question was asking the playerbase: is the idea desirable, despite holding off on developing other content for the game?
That's all that was asked, but you are turning it into something completely different. So you are saying 'Yes' to the shells, but 'No' to them making those shells?
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
Someone did ask a question along those lines at some point just before the back-and-forth started. I assumed there was a misunderstanding here, you were both starting to confuse me :P
One of the biggest problems of Lusternia in my opinion is the overload of combat mechanics. I honestly feel extremely overwhelmed at the idea of trying to get back into it because there seems to be so much. I mean considering when I went dormant to now, there are already 7 new skills I have to get to know, added with the concept of new curio boosts, affliction system, warning messages, new forms of demesnes, more and more.
if combat and mechanics could just be toned down just a bit, and all put into a more mainstream focus, I dont know maybe that would make it all look easier. But thing is, I can never actually attempt to come back in my current state and feel like a newbie trying to learn the game again at my current level.
edit: Also Ikon... Another form of player challenging? What is it O.O
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Signature!
Just to be clear, Estarra asked a question which (most of you) seem to have glossed over in favour of Iytha's. I was inquiring about the 'No.' There was no argument in it.
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
This post makes it sound like they want to change the mechanics of stats completely. There are some MUDs which have also created stat packages for each race. For example, a "pious merian" would have more charisma than lets say, a "stalwart merian".
Rather than adding/changing new stats, would it be easier to have races remain largely the same, but add stat packages across the board for versatility if one wants to focus specifically on influencing or combat?
"A man's not dead while his name is still spoken." - Terry Pratchett 1948-2015
I would think that, by the tone of the overview, they would stick to this, as te idea is that some races would still be better suited for certain archetypes.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
One question though: Would recruiting mortal coders to relieve some of the workload be considered?
Signature!
One of my better thoughts I had on this, and the availability of artifacts to the playerbase in general (thus mitigating the power creep, and giving newer players a means to invest without the feeling of "Welcome to Lusternia, please leave your Paypal/Card details at the door!" from the get go.) is to have a select number of artifacts also be available for a fixed gold price, various L1 runes, pipe/vial runes, possibly RoA/Collar too. The effect from this would be two fold:
1: You'd set (roughly) a standard rate for the credit market that fairly reflects the available disposable income to the average Joe.
2: You'd create a meaningful gold sink into the game, something the game really lacks (imagine for richer players the option to buy artifacts for friends with gold for example.)
(Also you'd end up with more people than Shaddus making alts* because it'd be easier to get some form of investment into their character, but I wasn't sure if that's a positive or not >.>)
Gold drops and earnings can be regulated in the game already via code, so the income flow to any one player is always in the control of the admin, you can essentially control the market through soft caps in artifact prices. People sell too low and it'd become more profitable to buy credits off the market for their artifacts, too high and people will just buy artifacts and trade in for credits, there would be a happy range for the market to fluctuate between, but certainly not to the degree where one month they can be 9k and the next 35k+
So yes you'd still have power creep via force multipliers, but by creating an entry level tier, you'd be closing down that gap between players, while still allowing for people to feel justified in their investments.
*Shaddus would also probably just make more alts. Who am I kidding, he'll make more alts anyway; but that's neither here nor there.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!