Help Test the Newbie Tour; Receive 10 Bound Credits!

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  • RilunaRiluna Member Posts: 1,118 Mythical
    The lag for me often seems to come from the in-client map, regardless of where I am. I have a rather low-end PC though, so I assumed it was just that.

    Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,777 Transcendent
    Still, a text game shouldn't be that taxing.
    I used to make cakes.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    Could you guys tell me what operating system and browser (and version) you're using when you get the lag from map loads?
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  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,981 Transcendent
    I had tried it on two OSs, to be sure my one wasn't just being dumb.

    Linux Mint 15
    Firefox 23

    Windows 7
    Pale Moon x64 20 (a 64-bit browser based on Firefox)

    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • RilunaRiluna Member Posts: 1,118 Mythical
    I use Windows XP, and run the HTML5 client on Chrome.

    I've no idea what version it is, but it updates itself, so the newest one?

    Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
  • TarkentonTarkenton Traitor Bear Member Posts: 2,555 Transcendent
    Xubuntu 13.04 using Chromium, Firefox and Opera (wanted to make sure it was consistent across multiple browsers)
    Windows 7 64bit w/Chrome, Firefox

    All browsers are updated to current versions.

    I agree with Everiine, lag was typically noticed on map changes (going from Newton to the highway, changing areas in Serenwilde) though for me it seemed like any time I used the path walk x command I would see the lag.  Definitely seemed like it was the minimap causing this.  Logged in w/Mudlet and Mushclient and didn't see a single bit of this.
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  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    Yeah, it's definitely the map window that creates the lag. At least in Firefox. By closing it, the client is sped up noticeably.
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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    I played a little bard just a bit ago to try out the new intro, and it's not bad so far. I'd like to suggest that during the Lachesis stage is when you should at least get your sword/lute if you're a warrior/bard. There was a selection for learning "how to use my bard skills" but no way to actually try them out.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    Shaddus said:
    I played a little bard just a bit ago to try out the new intro, and it's not bad so far. I'd like to suggest that during the Lachesis stage is when you should at least get your sword/lute if you're a warrior/bard. There was a selection for learning "how to use my bard skills" but no way to actually try them out.
    Actually, that's when you do get the sword/lute. The first task for Lachesis is fighting the shadow which drops the backpack with all the lute in it. (Though I guess I could hide the generic guild lessons until after you get the backpack... in fact, I'll do that now!)
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 7,023 Transcendent
    All the lute in it? I see what you did there.
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  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,210 Transcendent
    Estarra said:


    Shaddus said:

    I played a little bard just a bit ago to try out the new intro, and it's not bad so far. I'd like to suggest that during the Lachesis stage is when you should at least get your sword/lute if you're a warrior/bard. There was a selection for learning "how to use my bard skills" but no way to actually try them out.

    Actually, that's when you do get the sword/lute. The first task for Lachesis is fighting the shadow which drops the backpack with all the lute in it. (Though I guess I could hide the generic guild lessons until after you get the backpack... in fact, I'll do that now!)


    That's what I get for doing my training out of order :(
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent
    I have an issue with how this intro interacts with the collegium.

    So long as you are doing the Fates quests, you do not show up on CGWHO.

    As soon as you finish with Atropos' quests at the homestead, you will -finally- show up on CGWHO. However, by that point in time you will have already completed most of the collegium quests. Once you finish the last two and graduate, you disappear from CGWHO again, unless you become a professor/chancellor later on down the line.

    It used to be really useful and helpful to use CGWHO to tell who needs help and who doesn't, but at this point it just becomes very confusing with this non-linear intro. Can we please have new players showing up on CGWHO as soon as Lachesis is done with them and Atropos is assigned to them? This would let us know they are past the very basics of the intro and into the collegium stuff already.

    There's also no real prompt to use CGT given by the Fate guides, ever. This is probably why I end up seeing people talking on newbie when they have trouble and never on CGT.

    Or maybe it's just time to reconsider how collegiums are structured.

  • ZvoltzZvoltz Member, Gods Posts: 402 Divine
    Vivet said:
    I have an issue with how this intro interacts with the collegium.

    So long as you are doing the Fates quests, you do not show up on CGWHO.

    As soon as you finish with Atropos' quests at the homestead, you will -finally- show up on CGWHO. However, by that point in time you will have already completed most of the collegium quests. Once you finish the last two and graduate, you disappear from CGWHO again, unless you become a professor/chancellor later on down the line.

    It used to be really useful and helpful to use CGWHO to tell who needs help and who doesn't, but at this point it just becomes very confusing with this non-linear intro. Can we please have new players showing up on CGWHO as soon as Lachesis is done with them and Atropos is assigned to them? This would let us know they are past the very basics of the intro and into the collegium stuff already.

    There's also no real prompt to use CGT given by the Fate guides, ever. This is probably why I end up seeing people talking on newbie when they have trouble and never on CGT.

    Or maybe it's just time to reconsider how collegiums are structured.

    New players show up on CWHO/CGWHO once they talk on CT for the first time (I think for Lachesis?). Are you sure they aren't showing up until after they complete the full intro?

  • VivetVivet , of Cows and Crystals Member Posts: 2,223 Transcendent

    Zvoltz said:
    Vivet said:
    I have an issue with how this intro interacts with the collegium.

    So long as you are doing the Fates quests, you do not show up on CGWHO.

    As soon as you finish with Atropos' quests at the homestead, you will -finally- show up on CGWHO. However, by that point in time you will have already completed most of the collegium quests. Once you finish the last two and graduate, you disappear from CGWHO again, unless you become a professor/chancellor later on down the line.

    It used to be really useful and helpful to use CGWHO to tell who needs help and who doesn't, but at this point it just becomes very confusing with this non-linear intro. Can we please have new players showing up on CGWHO as soon as Lachesis is done with them and Atropos is assigned to them? This would let us know they are past the very basics of the intro and into the collegium stuff already.

    There's also no real prompt to use CGT given by the Fate guides, ever. This is probably why I end up seeing people talking on newbie when they have trouble and never on CGT.

    Or maybe it's just time to reconsider how collegiums are structured.

    New players show up on CWHO/CGWHO once they talk on CT for the first time (I think for Lachesis?). Are you sure they aren't showing up until after they complete the full intro?
    I'm pretty sure this is the case, yes. I hadn't attempted the intro until I decided I wanted to experiment with this, so I was checking CGWHO constantly. I'm not so sure about CWHO, but I do recall not being visible on CWHO immediately, but being visible before the end of the intro.

    It might be that CWHO is working as you implied, but CGWHO is not (unless it has been fixed since my post here was made). My test character definitely was not visible on CGWHO until Atropos left me and I got the message about completing the Quest for the Fates.

  • TalanTalan Member Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    Zvoltz said:
    New players show up on CWHO/CGWHO once they talk on CT for the first time (I think for Lachesis?). Are you sure they aren't showing up until after they complete the full intro?
    They don't. You are immediately put in the guild at COL rank, and in the appropriate city/commune, even before you say hello. Once you do say hello, there's a gap of space between that and the quest section with Lachesis where you are at some point silently enrolled in the collegium. Maybe this is a bug.

    Thoughts on the new intro:
    • It is very unclear at what point we regular players should engage the newbies. What would be nice is if the newbies were enrolled in the collegium right away, with an asterisk next to their names while they still have their fate guides. This way we would know not to try to inundate them with tasks and requests to read things, etc.
    • Please add a [Hint] to the intro for how to talk on CGT, the same way you have for CT and tells.
    • Consider having people to learn their first lessons from the Planar tutor in the collegium, rather than at the nexus. The nexus can be a busy, noisy place. It is confusing for both the newbie, who is trying to follow along with their fate guide and reading a lot of text - and for the other players, who are watching someone carry on a conversation out loud with someone they cannot see or interact with (the fate guide).




    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    Please Please Please move them from the nexus when they're learning skills and chatting with Atropos. Nevermind confusing the novice, people try to talk and RP and junk at their nexus, and having newbies show up and start rattling off pre-generated sentences to themselves is very disruptive.
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,777 Transcendent
    This might not be germain to the discussion and I don't foresee anything changing with respect to this observation, but...

    I've always found it weird that you choose your guild and city before you even enter the game. It seems like there should be a more in-depth section of the introduction where the newbie can learn a little bit about the character of the orgs and the guild options therein before making the choice to join one.
    I used to make cakes.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
  • ZouviqilZouviqil Queen of Uberjerkiness Member Posts: 976 Transcendent
    I'm testing out the tour, and I'm not sure if it's related or not, but I attempted to register and I still haven't gotten the e-mail; for all the other characters I've had, the e-mail was sent near instantaneously, to my inbox, not even to my spam.

    Checking my mail over and over again on the given e-mail address, I have no new e-mail or spam. I've attempted to register three or four times now. Is this an issue related to the new tour?
  • AerotanAerotan Member Posts: 534 Expert
    Daraius said:
    This might not be germain to the discussion and I don't foresee anything changing with respect to this observation, but... I've always found it weird that you choose your guild and city before you even enter the game. It seems like there should be a more in-depth section of the introduction where the newbie can learn a little bit about the character of the orgs and the guild options therein before making the choice to join one.
    If I recall correctly, you're encouraged to ask for information about each of the...uh...five times four plus...twenty eight options you have. Granted, all this does is pull up HELP <guild> or HELP <city>, which are generally poor indicators of the org's actual stances and statistics, but it's better than nothing. What I'd like to see is something like adding a very abridged version of CWHO to the end of the commands for newbies. Like, asking about Aquamancers would give you:
    Archmage: Forren
    Magister: Bob
    Champion: a merian priestess
    ...
    Teachers currently in the realms: Meleris, Manchal, Neos
    Glub Blub Aquamancer HELP stuff here.
    Your title will be Spout.
    There are 4 members of the Aquamancers Guild currently online, 8 in the last hour.

    With the last two lines either told directly to the newbie, and/or treated as purely OOC knowledge that is subject to the penalties for Alt abuse if caught. Basically let the newbie know about how many people he/she/sie can expect to see around at the same time.

    Anyway, I'm going to run through the intro again to see the changes, then add another $0.02
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  • KalnidKalnid Member Posts: 560 Fabled
    Concerning the extra info for guilds: These files already exist sort of under HELP GUILDNOVICES <whatever> but I haven't seen them pointed to by anything in actual years. Doesn't tell so much about the city/commune though.
  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,981 Transcendent
    I only knew about HELP GUILDNOVICES <guild> when I became GA and looked over my privs, discovering I had the power to edit it.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • AerotanAerotan Member Posts: 534 Expert
    504h, 396m, 390e, 0p ex-greet guide
    You greet Clotho the Spinner with a sincere smile.
     [1] I would like to know more about how to interact with the realm.
     [2] Can you tell me more about the prompt?
     [3] I would like to know more about the Portal of Fate.
     [4] How do I get more help?
    You need to complete the following tasks to advance in the Fates of Lusternia quest:
     [5] Can I get more information about items and creatures?
    504h, 396m, 390e, 0p ex-say can I get more informtion about items and creatures??
    You ask, "Can I get more informtion about items and creatures?"
    504h, 396m, 390e, 0p ex-

    You may need to tweak this step to be more clear, or to have Clotho accept the exact question. Alternately, a hint early in the process that you can just enter the number to ask a question.

    I'm glad that you can kill the shadow without having to newbiepunch it anymore.

    A question: Should this be taking precedence, or should an actual player directing you to CGHELP scrolls/taking the time to help you be the priority? As I was playing through the intro I got contacted by several persons in [REDACTED] who were offering to show me the ropes, but I had to gently turn them down because I felt like I was supposed to be focusing on the intro, and the CGHELP files were actually pointing out things in a different order or earlier than the tour would have. Plus the GREET GUIDE notice every few minutes was kind of insistent.
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  • EveriineEveriine Wise Old Swordsbird / Brontaur Indianapolis, IN, USAMember Posts: 2,981 Transcendent
    That's part of the confusion that comes with the intro being in the "real" game itself. And we, as other players, have no idea how far a newbie is in the intro to be of any help.
    Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"

    Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.

    Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
  • DaraiusDaraius Shevat The juror's taco spotMember Posts: 4,777 Transcendent
    "We are currently testing a new tour for newbies, which will place newbies in the live game (rather than separated in the Shallamar area). It has been found that newbies respond better when they can immediately interact in the live game rather than going through boring tutorials." 

     I feel like the new intro is not really succeeding here, as noted in the two posts above. Maybe the only newbies I've run across are alts, but they're certainly not interacting 'in the live game,' just carrying on conversations with the invisible guide.
    I used to make cakes.

    Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    When we have the newbie speak on CT, that's when he/she is announced to the guild/city, i.e., we thought that the newbie had advanced far enough in the tour that it would be a good time to interact with them.

    We definitely can't go back to a non-live tour, so I think we just need to accept that everyone is in the live game and some are just being visited by the Fates and may or may not need help with that.
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  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    I agree with Dararius, they aren't really interacting with the live game, they're just doing the same sort of intro in a new setting.

    Can we have something so that once they ARE interacting with someone, the fate guide stops pestering them incessantly? Some way to have collegium teachers pause the intro, perhaps?

    And please, have them start in the collegium learning from a collegium tutor instead of right at the nexus?
  • TalanTalan Member Posts: 1,000 Transcendent
    Enyalida said:
    Can we have something so that once they ARE interacting with someone, the fate guide stops pestering them incessantly? Some way to have collegium teachers pause the intro, perhaps?

    I think that's what guide dismiss is (since you can all call the guide back) but that choice of words seems very final.


    Estarra said:
    When we have the newbie speak on CT, that's when he/she is announced to the guild/city, i.e., we thought that the newbie had advanced far enough in the tour that it would be a good time to interact with them.

    We definitely can't go back to a non-live tour, so I think we just need to accept that everyone is in the live game and some are just being visited by the Fates and may or may not need help with that.
    Something that I feel like we are kind of losing out on is the welcome that previously came when the novice first entered the game. We knew we had the newbie's attention then, and said hello and started getting them going with their guild stuff. That moment is missing now, because at the point when they greet the org, they are still right in the middle of a bunch of tasks of their own. People generally don't bother engaging them at that point, because we know they are still busy doing the tutorial.

    There's also an adjustment for players, as it seems sort of like we are phasing out the use of Collegiums and CGT. Newbies talk on CT instead of CGT, and they aren't prompted on how to respond on CGT. As @vivet noted, if they follow the tutorial through to its conclusion, they are basically completing all the collegium tasks on their own. Is this intentional, and should we train ourselves to not speak to new players there anymore?


    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,076 Creator
    The tour only needs 4 collegium tasks, not all 6, fyi, so they aren't completing all collegium tasks then.
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  • AerotanAerotan Member Posts: 534 Expert
    Is it four? I've pretty consistently needed five I thought. It usually seems to work out to all but Power, since that one is more complicated for newbie city-dwellers to complete than the others.

    Either way, as a player who knows more or less exactly what to do and how to do it, I ended up finishing the tour and completing the fifth Collegium task in such a time as I was only an hour or so from graduating out of the Collegium altogether. I did try not to use any command before I was told how to, but I still had certain basics a true newbie might not, ie: I knew exactly how Teleporting works without needing to do more than skim the AB, I knew that kil, kill, attack, etc. were valid aliases (and for newbie warriors it actually does seem to default to swing rather than punch), I knew the layout of the city and what the various markings on the map meant, and was familiar with IRE maps in general, etc. I'm not sure if that's a positive or a negative. I certainly didn't mind, and once someone grasps the basics the Collegium is less useful anyway. I did finish the newbie tour before the Newton honours line, but only because I forgot the order the castle gnomes want things done.
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  • ZvoltzZvoltz Member, Gods Posts: 402 Divine
    edited September 2013
    Part of the reason I stayed in Lusternia when I started playing here was the great interaction I had with the players who taught me. From what I've read, I get the impression that some people think that since the newbie is in the tutorial they aren't allowed to do anything else until they finish everything. That's not the case though, and I wouldn't want to discourage anyone from greeting or interacting with a newbie.

    While each org will have to figure out the best way to adapt to the changes, I think it is fine if orgs still want to pull someone aside for an orientation. While it isn't a simple "CGT Hi Newbie! Welcome to Org, please read CGHELP YOURGUILD and let us know if you have questions!" anymore, I think a simple change would be "CGT Hi Newbie! Welcome to Org! We know you might still be working with the Fates to learn more about the realm, if you'd like someone her in the city/commune can also help you get started!" and orient the newbie as you normally would. If guide spam is a concern, you can always ask them to GUIDE DISMISS while you are teaching them and then remind them that they can GUIDE CALL once you are done, if they want to continue with their Fate tasks.

    If you end up helping them and they complete their intro tasks ahead of time because you teach them skills or help them with collegium tasks, they don't lose anything as their Fate Guide will recognize that it was done without them and just move to the next step.

    Interacting with other players is one of the big draws of a MUD and we have an amazing playerbase, so the answer is to recognize that there is a new intro, that it can be started and stopped as convenient for players (both teachers and newbies), and that the new intro is not meant to allow everyone to ignore newbies. Yes, it will be a change from the normal routine getting a newbie started, but not by much.

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