Yay. More paintings. Apparently this is going to be a daily thing, where Baelfyre sneaks into Celest off hours, kills a bunch of NPCs and puts up paintings of their corpses while studiously avoiding anyone who could retaliate. Conflict!
Hey, mobs grow back without help. Trees don't. Focus on what's important here.
Paintings take effort from a trans artist to remove. I could care less about off hours NPC killing.
Yay, Celestian Priorities!
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Forget the tasteful nudes, put up blatantly distasteful paintings of him everywhere. Give him, like, small hands or something.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
As a player, I only care about the paintings. In character, sure, those are just a minor insult and the murders are a bigger deal. Out of character, killing NPCs doesn't actually force anyone on Celest's side to do something to fix the situation. Paintings do, which makes them infinitely more annoying.
There's no real discussion of mechanics happening here while you guys keep up the hyperbole.
There are no razor blades in your chocolate chip cookies, it's just that you have to bake them from scratch, and sometimes people who are not you walk through the kitchen and take one. Nobody came in your house and killed your dog. They came in your yard and chopped your resource-producing tree that grows back to normal adult size in 3 days because realism.
Well if were keeping up the funny metaphors then ok then some gives you a tasty cookie every day and then once a month they punch you in the tit and then you get told your lucky for getting so many cookies
Then to borrow Yarith's opinion, just don't take them down.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I love the argument of just change your RP so you don't get griefed by the mechanics. I wonder if that argument would've worked for Celest back when Thoros and co. were raiding every plane and spend hours bashing Eventru godrealm. "Oh, we just won't be against the tainted anymore! Be our friends!"
If you are arguing against griefing mechanics because roleplay exists, you are more than likely in the wrong. You can apply that standard to almost any rule in the past and see its been changed.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
Iytha's post is also a perfect example of the kind of frustration we're facing, and which we don't want to have to deal with anymore - and be damned to your "conflict mechanics". I've never spoken to Baelfyre personally beyond seeing his death (and kills) in Prime Celest once in a while when I happen to be online when he raids. Maybe he only attacks (and kills) people weaker than him, during off-peak hours, whatever, I don't know. But at least he has stayed to fight once or twice.
That excuses none of the frustration his petty vandalism with paintings have caused.
Taking down paintings take less time than replanting trees. Taking down paintings is like griefing lite - you don't even lose power from leaving the painting there, so there's not even an argument to be made about it being the "real" reason why Iytha keeps investing the effort to take them down. She's literally "creating" the grief for herself due to RP. But I'd like to see someone try to convince Iytha that she should just change her RP to not care about it and leave them up. Is it acceptable to tell her that "you're choosing to take the presence of a dead painting with a poorly written insult as an indication of offense. You could just not do it."
No. The answer is no.
Yes, sure, playing this game means having to deal with such things, which we don't want to have to deal with, because it's conflict. You can't expect the world to revolve around your feelings and everything to go your way etc. Too soft, etc. This is a line of argument that can be more readily applied to Iytha's situation than tree-chopping, because of the relatively milder investment of time and effort compared to replanting trees. But follow this argument to its bitter end - I don't need a crystal ball to claim that Iytha won't be a player, at least, not in Celest, if you let it go on.
Is this fine? I don't think so either.
Perhaps my path will lead to neutering all of our conflict mechanisms. Perhaps if we follow my logic to its bitter conclusion too, we'll just have an empty, bland, tame world. But does that mean it is acceptable to shrug off the fact that people like Iytha has had her playtime ruined? That we should shrug our shoulders when the admin reject requests for change, and say, "Change the RP, just disconnect from the grief"? Yeah, well, we can, but the result will be that Iytha will simply not be engaging with the game anymore - and maybe someone else will take her place to suffer the mechanics of taking down paintings.
I don't think that's a game and community I want to participate in, or call myself a part of.
I challenge the implied notion that there can't be meaningful, sustainable and fun conflict mechanisms different from the kind of frustration generated from things like tree-chopping and painting vandalism. I argue that not all conflict mechanisms are made equal - some are less neccessary, and less well-designed, than others - and have no place in our game. I challenge the idea that things like tree chopping and painting vandalism are important for conflict, or should be preserved for whatever reason, or attempts to change them should be abandoned in the face of admin reluctance to act. The admin are reluctant to act recklessly and rashly, and I understand that, but it is precisely because of that which makes it all the more important to stick to your guns, and continue to ask, and show proof that the change is needed. That this kind of mechanic and "conflict" cannot, should not, be tolerated. At the very least, their continued existence should not be due to a lack of trying to convince the admin otherwise.
Some of these mechanisms I am arguing against broadly are side-effects, unintended conflict mechanisms. A nice new perk added for enchanters sometime in the future might create another as-yet untold of way to vandalize an opposing org's locations. And where they appear, I believe we should act, and argue, and urge, and push, to have them addressed and removed.
I love the argument of just change your RP so you don't get griefed by the mechanics. I wonder if that argument would've worked for Celest back when Thoros and co. were raiding every plane and spend hours bashing Eventru godrealm. "Oh, we just won't be against the tainted anymore! Be our friends!"
If you are arguing against griefing mechanics because roleplay exists, you are more than likely in the wrong. You can apply that standard to almost any rule in the past and see its been changed.
This. The entire point of chopping Elders is that it annoys the commune that they belong to. If the communes just stop planting Elders, the people who chop Elders now will just switch to flamed letters with propaganda, or setting the forest on fire, or strip harvesting or whatever else they can do to piss off people from the target org. To which the appropriate response is apparently 'Just stop caring about it. If you don't engage, it won't bother you. Harden up, princess.' over and over again.
No part of that chain of escalation and indifference improves the game. The end state is not giving a damn about anything that happens ingame and treating Lusternia as Fantasy TF2 With Shitty Graphics.
Learn to enjoy the fire burning and totem chopping like I did. If the glass is half empty, it's a crappy mechanic. If the glass is half full, however, now you have a reason to kill 20 Serens in Faethorn, set Prime on fire, murder the ladies, and spend the next 4 days raining Nighty terror upon innocent bystanders. Then you can RP watering the saplings with their tears.
Learn to enjoy the fire burning and totem chopping like I did. If the glass is half empty, it's a crappy mechanic. If the glass is half full, however, now you have a reason to kill 20 Serens in Faethorn, set Prime on fire, murder the ladies, and spend the next 4 days raining Nighty terror upon innocent bystanders.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
As a player, I only care about the paintings. In character, sure, those are just a minor insult and the murders are a bigger deal. Out of character, killing NPCs doesn't actually force anyone on Celest's side to do something to fix the situation. Paintings do, which makes them infinitely more annoying.
How do you figure that? It costs 150 power hour to ironbark and gloms totems gen about 84 per hour.
Well if were keeping up the funny metaphors then ok then some gives you a tasty cookie every day and then once a month they punch you in the tit and then you get told your lucky for getting so many cookies
If you are arguing against griefing mechanics because roleplay exists, you are more than likely in the wrong. You can apply that standard to almost any rule in the past and see its been changed.
That excuses none of the frustration his petty vandalism with paintings have caused.
Taking down paintings take less time than replanting trees. Taking down paintings is like griefing lite - you don't even lose power from leaving the painting there, so there's not even an argument to be made about it being the "real" reason why Iytha keeps investing the effort to take them down. She's literally "creating" the grief for herself due to RP. But I'd like to see someone try to convince Iytha that she should just change her RP to not care about it and leave them up. Is it acceptable to tell her that "you're choosing to take the presence of a dead painting with a poorly written insult as an indication of offense. You could just not do it."
No. The answer is no.
Yes, sure, playing this game means having to deal with such things, which we don't want to have to deal with, because it's conflict. You can't expect the world to revolve around your feelings and everything to go your way etc. Too soft, etc. This is a line of argument that can be more readily applied to Iytha's situation than tree-chopping, because of the relatively milder investment of time and effort compared to replanting trees. But follow this argument to its bitter end - I don't need a crystal ball to claim that Iytha won't be a player, at least, not in Celest, if you let it go on.
Is this fine? I don't think so either.
Perhaps my path will lead to neutering all of our conflict mechanisms. Perhaps if we follow my logic to its bitter conclusion too, we'll just have an empty, bland, tame world. But does that mean it is acceptable to shrug off the fact that people like Iytha has had her playtime ruined? That we should shrug our shoulders when the admin reject requests for change, and say, "Change the RP, just disconnect from the grief"? Yeah, well, we can, but the result will be that Iytha will simply not be engaging with the game anymore - and maybe someone else will take her place to suffer the mechanics of taking down paintings.
I don't think that's a game and community I want to participate in, or call myself a part of.
I challenge the implied notion that there can't be meaningful, sustainable and fun conflict mechanisms different from the kind of frustration generated from things like tree-chopping and painting vandalism. I argue that not all conflict mechanisms are made equal - some are less neccessary, and less well-designed, than others - and have no place in our game. I challenge the idea that things like tree chopping and painting vandalism are important for conflict, or should be preserved for whatever reason, or attempts to change them should be abandoned in the face of admin reluctance to act. The admin are reluctant to act recklessly and rashly, and I understand that, but it is precisely because of that which makes it all the more important to stick to your guns, and continue to ask, and show proof that the change is needed. That this kind of mechanic and "conflict" cannot, should not, be tolerated. At the very least, their continued existence should not be due to a lack of trying to convince the admin otherwise.
Some of these mechanisms I am arguing against broadly are side-effects, unintended conflict mechanisms. A nice new perk added for enchanters sometime in the future might create another as-yet untold of way to vandalize an opposing org's locations. And where they appear, I believe we should act, and argue, and urge, and push, to have them addressed and removed.
No part of that chain of escalation and indifference improves the game. The end state is not giving a damn about anything that happens ingame and treating Lusternia as Fantasy TF2 With Shitty Graphics.
It works. Trust me.
You don't even go here :P
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Make Crek emote at you about killing it. I hear he loves that.
Deus Vult!
Same as everyone against bigger numbers then.
For the Greater Good.
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I knew saving that link would come in handy someday.
https://estelss16.deviantart.com/, visit if interested.