Newbie Difficulties/Troubles/Concerns

14567810»

Comments

  • MoiMoi Member Posts: 1,208 Transcendent
    edited August 8
    Submitted a helpedit for HELP SHOPS to make it more up to date. Will work on WHATNOW in a little bit.

    E: HELP WHATNOW helpedit submitted!
    Post edited by Moi on
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 18 Apprentice
    Thank you so much Moi. One of the biggest things that's kept me coming back to Lusternia is the investment by admins and players to make an incredible place even better.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,100 Transcendent
    edited August 8
    Regarding your comment about the Newton "disconnection" from the game: you are right about that feeling!  However, there actually are other quests in the game that give information about how Newton came to be inhabited the way it is (including even the shroomies there).  I think the only ones that don't have a tie by now are the ants.

    These quests all explain why the various associated groupings in Newton seem so disconnected from their larger groupings providing backstory... but the problem is that you can't find out about that until much later, and possibly never if you don't pursue those quests.

    It might be worth examining that so new players can see at least some of how these things connect to the broader lore of the game itself somehow, but I am not entirely sure how that could best be done without rewriting the lore of Newton itself as well as the associated explanatory quests (and I am not sure that is on the table).

    But a quick hint: There are hyfae (mushroom fae) in a colony in the Undervault, finks living on Mucklemarsh, a couple of known gnome colonies and references to many more, plus a bunch of gnomes who live in aetherships and travel all the time.  They really are part of the game!

    Edit: Actually, isn't there a hidden library room in the gnome part of Newton with a book that provides some hints of this, too?
    image
  • BairlochBairloch Member Posts: 115 Capable
    I didn't get that from Devora's comments on disconnection. I read it as less story and more... mechanically? You are pretty much taken by the hand through the first 20 levels or so and then.... released.
    You get a short intro to your city/commune before Newton, then you spend a lot of time in Newton, then you're dropped back in your city/commune thinking, what was this place again?
    While I do NOT want a WoW-esque, on-rails experience, some sort of nudge toward "You're done with Newton, go start reading your city help files or pester the Mayor" or something would go a long ways. It has been a while since I stayed in Newton so long I levelled out of it, but I do not recall that happening.
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 18 Apprentice
    Xenthos said:
    so new players can see at least some of how these things connect to the broader lore of the game itself somehow, but I am not entirely sure how that could best be done without rewriting the lore of Newton itself as well as the associated explanatory quests
    Good point, I remember LOSING MY DAMN MIND when my 8th character found out about aetherhunting and reconnected with the gnomes. Super cool. Still, I'm very curious to know how difficult it would be to link Newton to the absolute basics of lore in general, like what the Taint is. I've seen many beginners get penalized for "madness" while trying to bond with their city, which seems unfair given the complete lack of info in Newton on IC rp. Would be good to know exactly how ignorant I'm being about how much work that entails.
    Bairloch said:
    You get a short intro to your city/commune before Newton, then you spend a lot of time in Newton, then you're dropped back in your city/commune thinking, what was this place again?
    Exactly, I could've made my post a lot shorter by just saying that. I love how Lusternia, outside of Newton, is a textured and smart game that refuses to coddle you and occasionally does flat-out "unfair" things, bc that's life. But it seems the interest in new player retention has led to making things a lot easier for the first 30 lvls, which isn't actually doing beginners a favor when there's no added scaffolding to help noobs transition into the long game. It just makes the transition to real world Lusternia that much more jarring. Noobs need extra preparation for the post-Newton world, not less.
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 18 Apprentice
    This is relevant. The results are telling. https://forums.lusternia.com/discussion/1841/is-the-fink-gnome-newton-caverns-intro-fun-engaging-and-key-to-a-prospective-newbies-experience/p1. Regrettably, many posts there say Newton's inadequate intro is less an issue with coding difficulties than with corporate
  • NalyaNalya Member Posts: 3 Inept
    edited August 12
    I imagine there’s nothing that can be done about this, but doing CWHO or GWHO and realizing I’m the only person on my plane feels extremely lonely as a new player. Maybe it made more sense when the game was larger, but completely cutting off communication or even being able to see names and maybe which plane they are on might make new players feel less alone. I understand I will have more access to communication as I get stronger, but it feels like a dead world to a new player. 

    My second biggest concern is out of date scrolls. However, I took the initiative to contact someone in my city about them and I noticed he posted saying he is working on it. That was really cool to see. Not every new player is going to feel comfortable pointing it out and also the way dates are done here, most new players won’t register scrolls are old.

    This is my favorite lore of IR games though so I’m going to stick it out for a bit!
  • SondaygaSondayga Member Posts: 60 Capable
    Nalya said:
    I imagine there’s nothing that can be done about this, but doing CWHO or GWHO and realizing I’m the only person on my plane feels extremely lonely as a new player. Maybe it made more sense when the game was larger, but completely cutting off communication or even being able to see names and maybe which plane they are on might make new players feel less alone. I understand I will have more access to communication as I get stronger, but it feels like a dead world to a new player.
    This actually was changed, I'm not sure if it is tied to planar but everyone shows up unless they are in a manse. The last column showing if they are on a different plane than you.
    *********************[ THE FREE COLLECTIVE OF SERENWILDE ]**********************
    Commune Member Class Rank Position CT OffP
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lisuarte Spiritsinger Forest Warden On Yes
    Sondayga Spiritsinger Forest Warden Commune Aide On No
    Fayette Moondancer Forest Warden On Yes
    Elarin Hartstone Forest Warden Minister of Cultu On Yes
    Lyod Spiritsinger Forest Custodian Commune Aide On Yes
    ********************************************************************************
    Currently, there are 5 Commune Members on visible Planes and 1 on other Planes.



  • NalyaNalya Member Posts: 3 Inept
    Yes, I see that too. But the reality is that i often see only myself on the visible plane and the rest “on other planes.” (At least in city and guild) What it feels like, is that I’m alone. I think tonight I logged on to see QWHO and it said 5 on this plane and 20 something on “other planes.” This might make a new player feel like there are only 5 people in the entire game that they can interact with. 
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,100 Transcendent
    edited August 12
    Sondayga said:
    Nalya said:
    I imagine there’s nothing that can be done about this, but doing CWHO or GWHO and realizing I’m the only person on my plane feels extremely lonely as a new player. Maybe it made more sense when the game was larger, but completely cutting off communication or even being able to see names and maybe which plane they are on might make new players feel less alone. I understand I will have more access to communication as I get stronger, but it feels like a dead world to a new player.
    This actually was changed, I'm not sure if it is tied to planar but everyone shows up unless they are in a manse. The last column showing if they are on a different plane than you.
    *********************[ THE FREE COLLECTIVE OF SERENWILDE ]**********************
    Commune Member Class Rank Position CT OffP
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Lisuarte Spiritsinger Forest Warden On Yes
    Sondayga Spiritsinger Forest Warden Commune Aide On No
    Fayette Moondancer Forest Warden On Yes
    Elarin Hartstone Forest Warden Minister of Cultu On Yes
    Lyod Spiritsinger Forest Custodian Commune Aide On Yes
    ********************************************************************************
    Currently, there are 5 Commune Members on visible Planes and 1 on other Planes.


    You only see them if they have enough planar to hear you speak.

    As another example, when I have Omniscience on now people can see me on cwho / I can see them even when I am on an aetherbubble because we are both able to communicate with the other.

    But a new player with only a little planar may only see people 1 / 2 planes away.

    Edit: And obviously that has no impact on QW.
    image
  • MoiMoi Member Posts: 1,208 Transcendent
    As an update, HELP SHOPPING and HELP WHATNOW edits are both in.
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 18 Apprentice
    Thanks so much Moi!

    Here are some more newbie pros & cons.

    Pros
    • Creation is fast and snappy, tho I do miss the part about fighting my own shadow, and also the waaaaay old part about exploring Shallach
    • I love how the finks and gnomes in Newton are textured (raiders as well as children and civilians) and regularly interacting with each other
    • The alternate influence mechanic is fantastic
    • The help files are perfect – blessedly short but very informative
    • Room descriptions are so detailed and interesting to read. It's flat out fun to pause and read the scenery
    • Creatures consistently behave in fascinating ways. Rocs will grab you, you'll get pulled into pits, cows bump into you, guardians will turn their heads to watch you, animals periodically make noises, etc. Hugely immersive mob behaviors 
    • Consistently, quests (and honours quests basically always) require you to do WAY more than just bashing. I love figuring out quests, using my mind, pulling out a pen and pencil. I love that there are no walkthroughs, so achievements feel very earned
    • In general, demonstrating game mechanics by making players DO them rather than telling them what to do is a billion times more effective. Lots of text games lose me in lectures and essentially movie montages where I barely have agency. Lusternia is really good at keeping you both mentally engaged and frantically typing as the burden is on you to act so that your story and your world's story can progress
    • The NUANCE in creation and rp is epic. The sheer variety and customization of races and places is BADASS. I hate how other games will gender-lock races/stats, or offer only very stereotypical and pretty racist Tolkien races, binary alignments… Right from the start I was obsessed with the way Lusternia made me feel anything was possible, and made me want to try out all the different races and cities/communes
    • Guild communities are so welcoming and immersive

    Cons

    • I did not understand how to tell the difference btw class skills usable for PK and NOT for mobs, usable for mobs and NOT for PK, or usable for both. This is crucial info in choosing the right class for your gaming style, so it should be provided during creation imo
    • Took me a long time to realize influence was an option for ALL mobs outside of the specific influence quest for my Collegium. Also, it’s very rare to have influence as a quest component outside of Newton. Having more influence-only quests (or quest steps) in Newton, and in general, would be great. I remember there was one in Newton years ago when I first played (was it with a guy named Ben?), but it was really basic

    Newbie/budget subscription idea

    From what I've seen and heard, I'm positive a good chunk of beginners in MUDs are in high school or college. The No-Brainer packages are awesome, but possibly a more accessible option for monthly membership could also be a great way to hook beginners and literally give them an investment in sticking around, voting for IRE, and improving the community. A cheaper, lower rewards alternative to $300/yr, such as (brainstorming here) just one lesson per daily login costing no more than $45 a year, would be greatly appreciated.


  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,100 Transcendent
    Influencing is actually very common in quests.  Even basic Commune quests (gathering fae) relies upon it.

    A lot of the lower level quests may not, but as you expand into newer and more difficult areas you are going to have to do more and more of it.
    image
  • BairlochBairloch Member Posts: 115 Capable
    edited September 15
    @Devora Both of your cons were something I experienced as well. Very frustrating to realize the abilities you were really excited about were worthless for PvE after you already worked and/or paid to acquire them.
  • AypateaAypatea Member Posts: 21 Novice
    edited September 15
    I have to agree that a cheaper subscription option (with proportionally less credits/lessons/etc) would make me more inclined to keep a subscription going longer-term instead of cancelling it. 
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 18 Apprentice
    Ok, I had my friend who hasn't played MUDs before try out Lusternia.

    Question: I still have no clue how hard her ideas would be to code. Is there a resource players can use to adjust their suggestions and expectations to the sorts of things that are easy and difficult to implement mechanically?

    Ideally, players would contribute to a lot of these suggested resources. Admin and volunteers can't do everything. I've applied to join the wiki and submitted some helpbugs


    Brief:

    Newbie Guide
    • The Newbie Guide is misleading and badly out of date.
    • Let us players rally and make a good novice guide!! (unless there's a great one out there already that I don't know about)
    Using the Interface
    • Would be great to have a part of the website that explains the absolute basics of where you should type and how to use the dialogue box to the right, etc
    Hints
    • In the current hint mode, a hint pops up the first time you encounter something and then never again. She really wanted a second mode where hints come up on which syntax to use every time you encounter a number of basic things, esp. communication and interaction
    Starting Location
    • Right now when the intro ends newbies are left standing … nowhere. Maybe a sign with instructions on how to move could help?
    • OUT of the Portal, there's no one there to greet newbs. Maybe an NPC could help?
    Clutter in Important Locations
    • There's gotta be a way to keep at least two rooms in the Realms, the Portal and the room just outside of it on Solitude, empty except for what's useful and actually lore-related. I appreciate that Lusternia has the Whimsicality, but I think it's confusing and unappealing for players who are serious about rp when that's the first and only thing they see. It comes off very OOC and WOW
    Learning
    • I think players should have absolute basic class skills available, with HINTS when they attack things that they should use their class-specific weapon, so it's easier for them to start exploring and fighting immediately
    • If learning skills is something players should do from the start, it should be a much more interactive process. Rn learning is a very passive experience that doesn't show off the great features of Lusternia! That shouldn't be a newbie's introduction to our world


    Verbose:


    Using the Interface
    • Would be great to have a part of the website/wiki that explains where you should type (to a true newbie the typing box may be unnecessarily subtle), how to use the dialogue box to the right, what the map on the upper left is all about, etc

    Newbie Guide

    • The Newbie Guide is misleading and badly out of date. Fewer typos and more snappy bullet points would be great
    • Let us players rally and make a good novice guide!! (unless there's a great one out there already that I don't know about)
    • Players need another screen outside of the game that they can have useful info on bc it takes a good while to adjust to keeping track of information live in-game, despite everything that's going on

    Hints

    • In the current hint mode, a hint pops up the first time you encounter something and then never again. She really wanted a second mode where hints come up on which syntax to use every time you encounter a number of basic things, esp. communication and interaction
    • For example: She got a hint to TELL back the first time someone sent her a tell, but was busy figuring out movement commands. Then when she wanted to reply she didn't know about using the dialogue box to the right and she had no idea how to answer or ask for help
    • Just typing HELP leads to something of an infodump. With helpbug I've suggested the first page of the help files should probably be basic commands for newbies: SAY, how to move, PORTALS, NEWBIE, etc, with the TOC on the second page

    Starting Location

    • Right now when the intro ends newbies are left standing … nowhere. She missed the "go out" hint bc she was still reading different guild files to choose a guild, then she freaked out, thought it was a bug, and wanted to quit. Would be excellent if this room could be mapped or could contain a sign (so when they LOOK they see "READ SIGN!") with a number of basic commands like going OUT and using PORTALS and CGT, etc.
    • OUT of the Portal, there's no one there to greet newbs, which is a big issue. Having an NPC saying things like, "Naturally you must be disoriented after stepping through the Portal. Do you know how to get home?" with hints about responding to SAY always popping on for this particular NPC would probably be an ordeal to code but I really, really think it would be a big help

    Clutter in Important Locations

    • Right now I have problems with what newbs are greeted with when they go OUT of the Portal. There's like 50 parakeets and fennec foxes and whatever? Wut?? Then there's these long lists of animals whose owners have perma-AFK'd who just sit there, and my friend actually read about everyone in the room bc she thought it was Important and got weirded out when she couldn't interact with them in any way
    • I appreciate that Lusternia has the Whimsicality, but I think it's a turnoff for players who are serious about rp when that's the first and only thing they see. It comes off very OOC and WOW. There's gotta be a way to keep at least two rooms in the Realms, the Portal and the room just outside of it on Solitude, empty except for what's useful and actually lore-related
    • I have similar issues with randomly dropped waste and people's random pets cluttering the Aetherplex and nexuses. Why aren't there clean-up mechanisms? This can be a significant source of confusion and immersion breaking for newbies. But I understand if that is hard to fix

    Learning
    • Players are told they can go wherever they want to start out, but Newton Caverns is a lot tougher without basic skills. Instead of forcing new players to first figure out the process of going to their city/commune and LEARNing a big list of stuff from Miakoda or whoever, players should have absolute basic skills available with HINTS when they attack things that they should use their class-specific weapon
    • If learning skills is something players should do from the start, it should be a much more interactive process instead of sitting around doing nothing for half an hour and entering repetitive commands before you can actually go do things. That doesn't show off the great features of Lusternia! Learning is one of the only things in Lusty that is rote and passive. That incredibly unusual lack of engagement shouldn't be the first thing newbies experience
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 18 Apprentice
    Nalya said:
    doing CWHO or GWHO and realizing I’m the only person on my plane feels extremely lonely as a new player. I understand I will have more access to communication as I get stronger, but it feels like a dead world to a new player. 

    My second biggest concern is out of date scrolls. Not every new player is going to feel comfortable pointing it out and also the way dates are done here, most new players won’t register scrolls are old.
    Also, seconding these two points. Luckily, players could help improve these things! For the first point, it would help if even more players than those who already do this kept an eye on the logs to see when new players join their city/commune and reached out to them with TELLs.

    I understand since the guild/class overhaul there's been a lot of chaos, but I still get thrown off / confused by how may links don't work and saying guild when it's referring to class and I've been playing for months now. Regularly scheduled tests and updates of basic CHELP, CGHELP, and GHELP files would be awesome.

    Maybe admin could support these efforts with rewards of some kind (eg bound credits or favours) for updating player-run files? I know experienced players in my commune are dedicating a huge amount of time and effort, out of the literal goodness of their hearts, and more players who stick around means more revenue for IRE. Is it fair to rely on players to run a parallel help system without incentives?
  • DevoraDevora Member Posts: 18 Apprentice
    My bad, I said "helpbugs" a few times, but I meant "helpedit." It's still a new feature to me
14567810»
Sign In or Register to comment.