If it feels about right, I consider that a job well done. There should be some deaths, but there should also be a fair chance of success with sufficient numbers, organisation and co-ordination. Avatars are suppose to be a difficult challenge, but not one that is impossible to overcome.
If it is an issue that the challenge no longer exists and that death and subsequent loss is no longer a real risk, or that they can be killed with very small numbers, then it would be something to look at.
Players across the board were meant to be sturdier at the baseline, while capping the levels at which others could attain, to where we had scenarios with juggernauts at three or four times (and sometimes more) the health of others in combat. It would be illogical for us to then raise damage again, when the goal was to give people some degree of survivability, purely on the basis that they achieved something they could not do prior to the overhaul.
I have to chime in and agree that where things stand post-Overhaul looks to be a decent starting point as far as smob raiding goes.
I can't rave enough to know that it's doable again with enough preparation and people mixed in with experience and planning. Smob raiding is by no means a cakewalk - a good number of us still got killed. It is also by no means an impossibility like it was before, and I'm thrilled about that.
If anything, I think what needs looking at moving forward are the very things that made it an impossibility pre-Overhaul. Yes, we want to curb raiding that turns to griefing, but we also want to balance things to keep things possible. Otherwise, why bother having the feature in the first place.
In particular that I'd like to think about in another thread probably includes:
Smob room attacks/self-heals and their proc rates
Enemy territory deaths and associated penalties
But, that's a can of worms I'll open later on. For now, I'm still enjoying the knowledge that things are possible again. Fweee~
I just hope people remember to drop Raziela's shield before killing her. It makes life so much easier.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Are the spheres on Continuum supposed to defend each other the way the supernals/dls/avatars do?
As far as I know they should defend each other.
Okay, because I didn't see that happening. I am not sure if it is because of a bug, or because of the order in which we attacked them.
It's been forever since I've defended the spheres, but I think it works that the first one you kill will be defended by two others. Then if you go in the correct order, each sphere will be defended by one.
It started off as 3 people raiding, and it escalated to taking down spheres. @Saoirse, @Maligorn, @Jaamil, @Romaan and @Tremula started it up, Bunch more showed up in the middle, from Hallifax, Celest, Serenwilde and even two Glommers showed up to defend you guys.
We started to get a fight, we got one and lots of our side rushed in, and it seemed like we could drop spheres, so we tried, and we succeeded.
Honestly this. When it started up I asked Feyda if they were going for spheres because I had been at the hospital all day and really needed to start dinner. It wasn't expected it would end up with a try on fleshpots.
I didn't save the log, but I thought they were defending, by throwing in attacks, but not actually coming into the room.
I think it makes sense because if they did run to help each other, you could just sit in one prepped room and kill them one by one, bringing all of them into your room.
I didn't save the log, but I thought they were defending, by throwing in attacks, but not actually coming into the room.
I think it makes sense because if they did run to help each other, you could just sit in one prepped room and kill them one by one, bringing all of them into your room.
Considering Supernals actually do move... not sure how that makes it better in any fashion. I know I saw Japhiel and Methrenton standing in the same room after the raid last night.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I was in Magnagora playing vengeance (they finally agreed to give me amnesty to play!) when all of a sudden Silea announces Continuum is getting attacked. I figured it was you lot looking for a fight and skived it off for another game, but when I asked she said it was still going, so ran up and saw two of the Triumvirate up there and called for help (after tossing down distort/inspire).
We got lucky when a decent number of people showed up to help us defend a plane only two or three people really knew how to navigate, but then the rest of Gaudiguch and Magnagora showed up out of nowhere and outnumbered us two to one, counting the midbies who popped up because RP demands they attempt to do something. I hope we don't have to do generators, I thought I'd seen the last of them.
It took us much longer than it would have taken if we were just hitting sphere after sphere in 1 room. Moving from sphere room to sphere room and keeping the group together became an issue - the Halli side was able to pick people off along the way because of that. I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both situations - I was just wondering if everything went as it is meant to. The back end of the mob killing was definitely easier/faster than the front. I guess maybe I missed something in the spam.
Unless the south is amazingly good at keeping your Spheres from being raised, and your generator is left untended for several irl days, and it empties, you'll be fine. Just make sure your newbies are spamming the power quest.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
@Elanorwen - Supernals are 1) much stronger in general than spheres and 2) vary in strength between them. Avatars are the same way. Spheres are pretty uniformly strong, so it does make a big difference if you have to run around a cosmic plane with all the bells and whistles blown.
There are certain combinations of Supernals and Avatars you want to avoid, so by picking and choosing what targets to hit, you can get around that. It requires you to attack strategically vs just standing in a room bashing away.
I didn't save the log, but I thought they were defending, by throwing in attacks, but not actually coming into the room.
I think it makes sense because if they did run to help each other, you could just sit in one prepped room and kill them one by one, bringing all of them into your room.
Considering Supernals actually do move... not sure how that makes it better in any fashion. I know I saw Japhiel and Methrenton standing in the same room after the raid last night.
You have to move to the Supernals. If I recall correctly Elohora and Razzy don't defend. Having to move through shrines and ripple as a group is exceedingly difficult and very easy for an organized defense to pick off stragglers or prep the supernals not being attacked to be defended.
Spheres popping into the same room one at a time would be a bit of a cakewalk for the raiders to jump in before the defenders could get set up and wipe out half the spheres before a really organized defense could take place. Moving around and raiders getting split up (especially when raiding smobs where the group HAS to be together to be successful...in distort...and defenders/invasion/etc) gives defenders time to prep and organize. Especially since the spheres/fleshpots are so numerous compared to avatars so they require a lot more movement.
I hope we don't have to do generators, I thought I'd seen the last of them.
Here's how it works for Magnagora:
We have 5 symbols which each store up to 1000 souls. Every attack tick (each hour?), we lose 25 from each. If any of them does not have 25 at the time of the tick, the shield drops. If the shield is not up at the next tick, we lose 1k power. Raising the shield involves doing the prophecy quest and binding the new Necromentate with enough spikes (i.e. 25 per symbol).
I do not remember if each DL turned in counts as a full attack tick, but I think it does.
I do not know how the numbers translate from the 5-DL system to the 12-sphere system.
Basically, if your shield was at near-full strength, it's not going to drop from one raid unless you're really lazy about re-raising spheres. Even if we'd managed to drop all Supernals and all Avatars I'd expect you would recover before a shield dropped. The bigger problem is that now people know they're droppable repeat raids are more likely.
We were running full tilt as much as we could from the word Go in terms of essence gathering. Losing all 12 cut our legs out from under us at the start by forcing us to only use Air Essence for the first sphere and brought the generator down from full to around 4000 just in the first hour alone.
Because the raid took place at midnight US time, there ended up being only about 5 or 6 of us working on essence because everyone logged off afterwards. The second sphere took another hour and a half because we were getting ganked while harvesting. Then more people left because it was stupid o'clock and there were only 3 of us left to harvest with 8 spheres still down and the generator already down to 3500 motes from 5000. They were doing a lot of damage REALLY quickly.
At that point, my memory kinda blurs from the fact that we ground it out like a MF'er for the next 5 hours, getting 6 more up thanks to @Saoirse who was the only one around who could get us to Xion. At that point, I passed out and woke up to see that it took another 5 hours after I went to sleep for the last two spheres to be fixed. The generator was left at 2300 motes.
So honestly, do I think the shield would have fallen from the one raid? Yeah, it would have, if we didn't grind for 8 hours to make sure it didn't.
I have to chime in and agree that where things stand post-Overhaul looks to be a decent starting point as far as smob raiding goes.
I can't rave enough to know that it's doable again with enough preparation and people mixed in with experience and planning. Smob raiding is by no means a cakewalk - a good number of us still got killed. It is also by no means an impossibility like it was before, and I'm thrilled about that.
If anything, I think what needs looking at moving forward are the very things that made it an impossibility pre-Overhaul. Yes, we want to curb raiding that turns to griefing, but we also want to balance things to keep things possible. Otherwise, why bother having the feature in the first place.
In particular that I'd like to think about in another thread probably includes:
Smob room attacks/self-heals and their proc rates
Enemy territory deaths and associated penalties
But, that's a can of worms I'll open later on. For now, I'm still enjoying the knowledge that things are possible again. Fweee~
Agree, over 2 mil per death is particularly bonkers when ALSO paired with not being able to gain essence to buffer those deaths.
I have to chime in and agree that where things stand post-Overhaul looks to be a decent starting point as far as smob raiding goes.
I can't rave enough to know that it's doable again with enough preparation and people mixed in with experience and planning. Smob raiding is by no means a cakewalk - a good number of us still got killed. It is also by no means an impossibility like it was before, and I'm thrilled about that.
If anything, I think what needs looking at moving forward are the very things that made it an impossibility pre-Overhaul. Yes, we want to curb raiding that turns to griefing, but we also want to balance things to keep things possible. Otherwise, why bother having the feature in the first place.
In particular that I'd like to think about in another thread probably includes:
Smob room attacks/self-heals and their proc rates
Enemy territory deaths and associated penalties
But, that's a can of worms I'll open later on. For now, I'm still enjoying the knowledge that things are possible again. Fweee~
Agree, over 2 mil per death is particularly bonkers when ALSO paired with not being able to gain essence to buffer those deaths.
Buffer is not the correct word, because you already have a buffer (a huge one, that's why you don't get more essence). Recover / recuperate would be more accurate. Regardless, the sentiment is still accurate / understandable. Reduced essence gain is annoying, reduced down to 1 essence per thing killed max is way beyond annoying.
Buffer is a subjective term, and the one I meant to say Xenthos. I want to be able to add a BUFFER, so a raid can drop me back to the xp amount I had previously. Recuperate suggests a loss first and recovery after. I didn't mean that, so I said it exactly how I meant it to be read.
Buffer is a subjective term, and the one I meant to say Xenthos. I want to be able to add a BUFFER, so a raid can drop me back to the xp amount I had previously. Recuperate suggests a loss first and recovery after. I didn't mean that, so I said it exactly how I meant it to be read.
This does not make any sense when we're talking hundreds of millions of essence. There is no actual risk of losing anything relevant-- you aren't going to lose Demigod. A buffer is what you do in order to get a comfortable edge above and beyond what is necessary to mitigate or lessen any risk, and you've already more than done that (which is why you are well past the cap).
Strictly interpreting your own statement, you will never actually have a buffer (because whenever you raid and die you will end up with less than you "had previously," read, prior to the raid). What you're really saying is that you want to be able to keep generating essence so that no matter what, the number will always be noticeably going up if you put time and effort into it. Which is also absolutely fine, but it's still not buffering anything any more. That doesn't change that the soft cap unfairly penalizes those who have worked the hardest to get to where they are, and also ensures that no matter how hard anyone else works they will never be able to catch up, though. It's a poor solution to the "problem".
Edit: The reason I'm debating this is that I feel it actually weakens your argument. If you say "I want to be able to get a buffer!" to the Admin, they are going to check and say you already have one. As far as they are concerned, you do (regardless of how you view it, they have made the decision that you have more essence than anyone "should"). I feel that it is a far stronger argument to say that your time and effort is essentially meaningless, that all you can do is watch your work seep away and that no matter what you do it will always be a downhill slide.
We were running full tilt as much as we could from the word Go in terms of essence gathering. Losing all 12 cut our legs out from under us at the start by forcing us to only use Air Essence for the first sphere and brought the generator down from full to around 4000 just in the first hour alone.
Because the raid took place at midnight US time, there ended up being only about 5 or 6 of us working on essence because everyone logged off afterwards. The second sphere took another hour and a half because we were getting ganked while harvesting. Then more people left because it was stupid o'clock and there were only 3 of us left to harvest with 8 spheres still down and the generator already down to 3500 motes from 5000. They were doing a lot of damage REALLY quickly.
At that point, my memory kinda blurs from the fact that we ground it out like a MF'er for the next 5 hours, getting 6 more up thanks to @Saoirse who was the only one around who could get us to Xion. At that point, I passed out and woke up to see that it took another 5 hours after I went to sleep for the last two spheres to be fixed. The generator was left at 2300 motes.
So honestly, do I think the shield would have fallen from the one raid? Yeah, it would have, if we didn't grind for 8 hours to make sure it didn't.
Hee I did about 5 or 6 rounds of Xion. It amazes me how far I've come, I used to be a newbie being dragged into Xion for hunts and I'd die so easily to stuffs <.< but now I can do it on my own! Save for that magic numbers puzzle still don't know how to solve it so I cheat!
Comments
If it is an issue that the challenge no longer exists and that death and subsequent loss is no longer a real risk, or that they can be killed with very small numbers, then it would be something to look at.
Players across the board were meant to be sturdier at the baseline, while capping the levels at which others could attain, to where we had scenarios with juggernauts at three or four times (and sometimes more) the health of others in combat. It would be illogical for us to then raise damage again, when the goal was to give people some degree of survivability, purely on the basis that they achieved something they could not do prior to the overhaul.
Talking purely about health seems purposefully disingenuous.
And come on, making it actually possible to raid smobs again can only be a good thing in Quietsternia.
Well, not really. But man, missed out. Hope the goon squad keeps it up!
Vive l'apostrophe!
Okay, because I didn't see that happening. I am not sure if it is because of a bug, or because of the order in which we attacked them.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Vive l'apostrophe!
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Strictly interpreting your own statement, you will never actually have a buffer (because whenever you raid and die you will end up with less than you "had previously," read, prior to the raid). What you're really saying is that you want to be able to keep generating essence so that no matter what, the number will always be noticeably going up if you put time and effort into it. Which is also absolutely fine, but it's still not buffering anything any more. That doesn't change that the soft cap unfairly penalizes those who have worked the hardest to get to where they are, and also ensures that no matter how hard anyone else works they will never be able to catch up, though. It's a poor solution to the "problem".
Edit: The reason I'm debating this is that I feel it actually weakens your argument. If you say "I want to be able to get a buffer!" to the Admin, they are going to check and say you already have one. As far as they are concerned, you do (regardless of how you view it, they have made the decision that you have more essence than anyone "should"). I feel that it is a far stronger argument to say that your time and effort is essentially meaningless, that all you can do is watch your work seep away and that no matter what you do it will always be a downhill slide.