Yeah, they pulled them after the damage had already been done and put in a heavily nerfed version, like what happened with the wheel and people being able to rub curios for coins.
Kiss of the Enchantress hisses eerily, "Let them fear, and despair."
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
While we're asking for things we think we deserve, I'd like a pony please. I was a good girl this year.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I want a kitten that goes "MEOW MEOW" and kills you with death.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Mko is closing, so I went to retire my characters.
Out of two of them, one can retire for 8 credits. The other is worth precisely nothing.
Who loves you, Lusternia.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
Sad to hear it. MKO was one of those games I always meant to play but never did. I'll play through Betrayal at Krondor, defining game of my childhood, again, in its memory.
They found out because a couple envoys mentioned that they could perpetually generate a profit. Specifically, Falmiis and myself.
This. There certainly is a group of folks who would notice and point out an issue like this pretty damn quickly after noticing it, which in turn happens almost immediately. Like, in @Shaddus's metaphor it's obvious that it's a bad deal, and there would be no question why the promotion was pulled... the question would be who okayed it in the first place, and more importantly, why were there not (sufficient) quality checks in place.
Everyone makes mistakes and misjudgements, the idea is to have a team of wonks who double check and edit that stuff. It's super frustrating when stuff like this slips through again and again while indepth, highly thought out and debated player ideas are sent through the ringer several times - be it game changes and additions a la envoys or just crafting designs - but wild and crazy administrative slip ups seem to get a pass on scrutiny until after they're already made waves.
Enyalida, I think you're confused about how Lusternia operates. Despite having all the feel of a corporate business, this is very much more like a mom & pop shop than Walmart. There's no marketing team to double check all the figures and make charts and graphs on our exact cost to return benefit and an executive summary on the expected impact to the game economy. Most of the time promotions are decided upon by one person. The vast majority of the staff are unpaid volunteers who show up and work when they are able. If you're expecting a QA department and a team of wonks, we are going to disappoint you over and over again.
The frustration is that there is a design 'QA department'. Mortal reviewers. There is a team of wonks. Envoys. Just like administrators, these are unpaid volunteers (or lightly 'paid', for reviewers?) who don't even get the perks associated with (eventual) god RP prerogative. These are players who can (and have) put out exhaustive examinations of the game's economy or the effect of new abilities on the meta. Players who offer immediate feedback on new promotions and items. Players who have editorial techniques and strategies down pat. Players who presumably continue to be Envoys and reviewers because they just enjoy or are good at the work that entails . Envoys and reviewers never have just one set of eyes on a piece of work, there never is just one person deciding them.
Like, the things that actually make it into my Envoy report are things that I thought of... then floated on the envoys channel... then passed by people on my guild clan.... then worked on tightening the language... then passed by other envoys privately... then made a pending report to pass it by all envoys and have comments... then usually there is at least one edit and we go back to envoy comments... then it's finalized and administrators look at it and do their own process, presumably involving both creative direction, combat balance direction, and code feasibility. Sometimes the ideas are bad or problematic ones, and they get shot down. Sometimes things that are bad ideas in hindsight still get through, but no one can say that due diligence wasn't performed - or the failure can usually be patched for future considerations.
Thinking about it more, that's what's so baffling: why aren't these folks and patterns being leveraged? So many pinch points could be wholly avoided by periodic check ins with folks who already per form those services post-release. I really don't understand the issue with that, some kind of vague "but the surpriiiiiise~" doesn't make much sense. In any event, if there is no one who will perform these tasks on the administrative side, there is an issue attracting people who will to the administrative team.
I guess what is personally frustrating is feeling like you put in a whole ton of effort to make a suggestion and check all the angles and jump through a thousand hoops... but then some crazy off the cuff idea that has to get immediately pulled goes through. Yes, it's "your game", the point is not that Lusternia writ large HAS to do any particular thing. It's a personal rant: things could be so much better.
For instance, it used to be that envoy reports felt like shots in the dark, with the only feedback being approved/not approved up to a month later. At some point, there was a shift in administration, leading to more conversational reporting. Adding in a well-used envoy or gaming term that an administrator might not be familiar with wouldn't sour the entire enterprise mysteriously anymore, someone on the administrative team would just... ask the envoy what they were talking about and what they intended. This became a massive beneficial factor in special reports and redesigns also! We saw really huge improvements in envoy system and resulting quality of output.
Things got better. This is a kind of a rant, so I'm going to quit with the longposts about it after this [on this thread], but it's not an idle or armchair rant. In other words, it's not a rant for the sake of ranting, though it is a vent. I am one of the players who, for better or for worse, gives immediate input and feedback regarding cost/value issues etc.. Like so many others, I do have skin in the game. I'm trying my best to be political about this but not only do y'all not have to do things alone: please don't?
except there's obvious player bias from this 'team of wonks.' - so it makes sense that they are not included in every decision.
Even with the reduced coins/presents from goody bags, a envoy complained that it was too much of a nerf (I've only bought the reduced goodybags and made out great, 500+dingbats, couple runes I didn't have, 70ish credits with an initial cost of 300 credits).
You yourself @Enyalida like to complain about literally everything that comes out. To the point that we make jokes on how soon you'll complain about things. Shamanism, Dramaturgy, racial overhaul, new DW, aethersuits, the 750 aethercrown arty's, classflexing costs and probably so much more. Really whatever is added, you can be counted on for one thing, to complain about it. Once again - you are complaining about something that was introduced and you didn't like it.
A mistake was made, some people got in when it was good, and it's now been corrected. Move on.
In another news, I'm still struggling to get into Lusternia zen. I've been staring at this blank page for over an hour unable to draw anything.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Oh - also, I think it's important to note that these goody bags were added because there was player demand for a better way to get dingbats. So they quickly introduced something to give players dingbats that just wasn't a straight trade and encouraged people to buy credits.
Have you been to the top of the Onyx or Jade Tower (forget which, think it's onyx) in Hallifax? They built a stellarium/planetarium up there, it's a really interesting place to, for example, host an astrology lesson.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
For the goody bags, if that's what we still are talking about, I take full responsibility. I wanted to get the goody bags out and didn't check with anyone (and probably should have) so the fault is entirely mine. Also, because we are more of a mom & pop, and I'm the mom (& pop), no one was around to quickly adjust the goody bags because I was off watching Superman vs. Batman (full disclosure: I fell asleep watching it which may tell you something about the movie!). Anyway, the volunteers rightly pulled Tink out until I could get back (which ended up being the next morning--see back to me falling asleep) and rather than rolling back game data which I'm loathe to do, I simply re-adjusted the goody bags. Anyway, my apologies for any and all who are upset! I do try to learn from my mistakes so will be more open to getting input in the future! But, again, some things aren't going to be vetted by envoys or anyone else, though keep an eye out for me asking strange questions.
Regarding MKO, I was pretty much as shocked as anyone else but it was the licensing issue more than anything else that forced it to close. Lusternia is here to stay! If you do find MKO refugees, please make them welcome and understand they are coming from a different game culture and may have difficulty adjusting to Lusternia.
Yeah, it can suck to be beholden to an IP holder, no matter how cool the IP itself is.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
We're worried about that in LotRO, too . The license expires next year, and we have no idea if it will be renewed.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Comments
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Hey @Lendren, where the logs at? I only got to be there for like 30-40 mintues of it?
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Out of two of them, one can retire for 8 credits. The other is worth precisely nothing.
Who loves you, Lusternia.
Don't you ever die, Lusternia.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
I mean, sure the other one is worth over 2k but still...
Hopefully Starmourn will announce what's up with retirement on their side soon.
Like, the things that actually make it into my Envoy report are things that I thought of... then floated on the envoys channel... then passed by people on my guild clan.... then worked on tightening the language... then passed by other envoys privately... then made a pending report to pass it by all envoys and have comments... then usually there is at least one edit and we go back to envoy comments... then it's finalized and administrators look at it and do their own process, presumably involving both creative direction, combat balance direction, and code feasibility. Sometimes the ideas are bad or problematic ones, and they get shot down. Sometimes things that are bad ideas in hindsight still get through, but no one can say that due diligence wasn't performed - or the failure can usually be patched for future considerations.
Thinking about it more, that's what's so baffling: why aren't these folks and patterns being leveraged? So many pinch points could be wholly avoided by periodic check ins with folks who already per form those services post-release. I really don't understand the issue with that, some kind of vague "but the surpriiiiiise~" doesn't make much sense. In any event, if there is no one who will perform these tasks on the administrative side, there is an issue attracting people who will to the administrative team.
I guess what is personally frustrating is feeling like you put in a whole ton of effort to make a suggestion and check all the angles and jump through a thousand hoops... but then some crazy off the cuff idea that has to get immediately pulled goes through. Yes, it's "your game", the point is not that Lusternia writ large HAS to do any particular thing. It's a personal rant: things could be so much better.
For instance, it used to be that envoy reports felt like shots in the dark, with the only feedback being approved/not approved up to a month later. At some point, there was a shift in administration, leading to more conversational reporting. Adding in a well-used envoy or gaming term that an administrator might not be familiar with wouldn't sour the entire enterprise mysteriously anymore, someone on the administrative team would just... ask the envoy what they were talking about and what they intended. This became a massive beneficial factor in special reports and redesigns also! We saw really huge improvements in envoy system and resulting quality of output.
Things got better. This is a kind of a rant, so I'm going to quit with the longposts about it after this [on this thread], but it's not an idle or armchair rant. In other words, it's not a rant for the sake of ranting, though it is a vent. I am one of the players who, for better or for worse, gives immediate input and feedback regarding cost/value issues etc.. Like so many others, I do have skin in the game. I'm trying my best to be political about this but not only do y'all not have to do things alone: please don't?
Even with the reduced coins/presents from goody bags, a envoy complained that it was too much of a nerf (I've only bought the reduced goodybags and made out great, 500+dingbats, couple runes I didn't have, 70ish credits with an initial cost of 300 credits).
You yourself @Enyalida like to complain about literally everything that comes out. To the point that we make jokes on how soon you'll complain about things. Shamanism, Dramaturgy, racial overhaul, new DW, aethersuits, the 750 aethercrown arty's, classflexing costs and probably so much more. Really whatever is added, you can be counted on for one thing, to complain about it. Once again - you are complaining about something that was introduced and you didn't like it.
A mistake was made, some people got in when it was good, and it's now been corrected. Move on.