Its tit for tat I mean theres been 15 glom trees cut down now and 2 seren trees.
Cant be surprised if theres some kick back really.
Guess that no-cutting pact is going to be pretty short-lived then.
(clan): Falmiis says, "Aramelise, verb, 1. adorn with many flowers."
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
And that's the problem.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
You don't -need- to replant trees and frankly it's unfair not to use a mechanic of the game. As long as cutting trees remains a mechanical thing you can't really be mad at the player. They're just playing the game. Soft playerbase is soft.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Uh, you most certainly can be mad about annoying mechanics.
And yes, we do need to replant trees, because they are a vital protection mechanism.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
It is not unreasonable that work should sometimes have to be done to ensure otherwise-passive power gain.
The only unreasonable part is that it falls on 2.5 guilds (but really only 1) to plant and only 1 guild to carve - meaning a small handful of the same people are dealing with this every single time. It's not fair to @Crek@Dylara@Enyalida, etc. personally. I don't have any sympathy for the communes at large when trees get chopped down - I do pity the same poor druids who always have to deal with the fallout.
Why is there not some construct power that gives the abilities required to tend the forest to all commune members, the way all city members can go out and bash for power? Failing an envoy report like that, I think people should consider not replacing the trees. See what it's like to not have them, and make some decisions about whether or not this is actually worth your time and aggravation.
It is very hard to hear this issue come up again and again and again, but nothing ever changes. You guys just bitch and moan (I do love you) while you sweep all the powder back into the keg, so you can sit back down on it, hoping that nobody walks by with a match for a while. Break the cycle!
You can be mad about the mechanics and the fact they exist but you can't be mad at the person.
You don't grow >70 elders for totems when only ~4 of them can be runed. That's not a very good protection system given that if you were in trouble you'd just run and stand on the nexus. People don't really gank prime and if they're going to, they've already declared and can only kill you once. Having all the statues in Magnagora didn't stop me from going in and killing x y z a few times. You grow elders -> totems for the power.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
The passive power from totems has, and I say this with 98% confidence, outpaced any|all of the cities and their generation from their unique active cosmic power harvesting through the history of the game.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
The communes have repeatedly and consistently said they'd gladly give up the power generation of totems if it led to changing the mechanics of how trees work. We don't care about the power. At all. Not compared to the hassle trees are.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
The passive power from totems has, and I say this with 98% confidence, outpaced any|all of the cities and their generation from their unique active cosmic power harvesting through the history of the game.
I (and hopefully many other commune players) have no problem with nerfing or flat out removing the power generation on totems as long as there is some reciprocation. Make guardians and rituals warriors bond to a statue. Get rid of power generation on totems and make all totems active. I DON'T CARE. But totem maintenance is a crap mechanic.
The Divine voice of Ianir the Anomaly echoes in your head, "You are a ray of sunshine in a sea of
Dreamweaving won't kill you if you're not afk and the dreamweaver has to DECLARE you. It means they can't do anything to you again on prime for 30 days even if they do kill you afk. Beckoning off a nexus is an entirely different scale. You don't get free power for standing afk on a nexus. Totems give a power buff to an org and can be countered. They're conflict. Beckoning off a nexus was also addressed. Theft = selfishness. You can't drop it in lusternia. Vines and fires I'm fine with. I never said otherwise.
Your arguments have a weak relation to the context. It might be rude to drop meteors for fires/vines but I don't believe that conflict should only be restricted to the few pvp events we have in the game. As a pvper this game is pretty static. The opportunity for 'conflict' is so slim, especially including timezones.
You are growing >80 trees for 'protection' when only ~5 can be totems and you're getting upset when the ones which weren't being used as protection were cut down when they reverted.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Honestly? I thought we kept them for the runes and defensive capabilities.
We have more power than we know what to do with. I assumed we kept them up for defense, too, since all carved totems work for defense (unless I missed some huge change, which is possible, if not probable).
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I am unfortunately limited by the injuries I received in my accident a few weeks back, my wrist just aches too much for me to run around and gather shadows or carve since lehki is still working on an issue in his code for carving help. I've already mentioned to folks that I won't be gathering nuts for these reasons, but if they give me the nut I will plant it for them. Veyils has been extremely helpful to me in this situation, as well as people who let me flow to them for carving (Rancoura).
At this point, I just am not dealing with it. So thanks to the folks who have helped me, wish I could do more but I'm not spending my extremely limited evenings where I don't have doctors appointments fixing this right now.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
When I quit, the communes didn't have any more active VAs than the cities did, and that has been the case since the cost of VAs was changed to scale with the number of VAs, so it seems the actual mechanical application of this imbalanced power gain is somewhere between zero and barely anything. The simple reality is power is an infinite resource, and the difference between infinite and more infinite is not worth arguing over. This is exactly why the communes have never been bothered by the idea of giving up that power gain. It's a red herring.
Anyone who points at the power gain is distracting you.
Honestly? I thought we kept them for the runes and defensive capabilities.
We have more power than we know what to do with. I assumed we kept them up for defense, too, since all carved totems work for defense (unless I missed some huge change, which is possible, if not probable).
This changed years and years ago, unfortunately.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
The power generation is excessive, but power in general is excessively easy to make. If it went from totems I wouldn't miss it, because if you want a power drive there's so many ways to generate it.
Look at the efforts of just one person in Lavinya, add to that culture/domoths/constructs/villages and power isn't a treasured commodity.
Sure we use it to summon new guards, but it's a drop in the ocean. It's mostly used for TAs and at this point the urgency of "We need a TA, best power drive" doesn't exist. It's "oh hey , 4 mil. Could raise a TA."
Commune power generation is less an issue of "we need that" for cities and more "we don't have, but we want."
So yeah, delete it and give us a more tenable defence system, especially for Serenwilde, that place has more holes than swiss cheese in regards to entry and exit.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
1
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Honestly? I thought we kept them for the runes and defensive capabilities.
We have more power than we know what to do with. I assumed we kept them up for defense, too, since all carved totems work for defense (unless I missed some huge change, which is possible, if not probable).
This changed years and years ago, unfortunately.
Has it been that long since I stumbled into Glomdoring? Holy crap.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
@Yarith, Dude: 1) Well argued. But 2) You're reading too deep into my argument. I am trying to make one point and one only, which is that if somebody's being an asshole using an existing mechanic, you have every reason to be upset at the person and not the mechanic. Whether you personally think that such is warranted doesn't circumvent human nature or the fact that in many of these cases the person is trying to provoke precisely that reaction from other players (vs. characters).
Then you have 0 reason to grow more than the totems you can bond and should have no grief losing those which were unbonded.
You should have grief at the fact that the power part of the totems restricts them from being as accessible as statues.
You signed up for an RP game, homey. Just because you don't care, doesn't mean others don't or aren't allowed to care about things for non mechanical reasons. Some people feel an obligation, and while you may not (I never did), your personal feelings aren't an argument that hold any water with those that have differing personal feelings. All you can address are the mechanical imbalances.
Upkeeping elder trees is not really done for defense, or power. It's only really done because of RP, and because of the level of RP investment people have in the lore of their org. Elder trees are, you know, sacred to the forestal communes in a game that is primarily an RP game. Brennan goes, 'MOTHER NIGHT, CURSE THE HEATHENS WHO FUCKING CUT DOWN OUR FUCKING SACRED FUCKING TREES.' on the commune aether. You know, if people could put down the RP and just ignore it, they probably would, but that's the draw of this game, isn't it?
And then we get it turned around and accused of selfishly keeping this mechanic "just for the power".
I'm not a druid, I've never had the ability to plant nuts or carve totems.
I have sunk literal days of play time to gather nuts, patrol the forest, chase fuckers like Arcanis around, and it's not fun. I didn't find this a chore at the start. I literally earned my CR6 calling out Elder trees as a newbie. The RP was engaging, was fun, and continues to be the major, the only reason I give any shit about the trees. "Just let them all get cut down if you don't care about the power." Come on. Yarith, you've been a Glom. Talan, you were the literal role model for the way I treat RP as a Glom. You can't give me that bullshit and say you don't understand why we don't do that.
The chore of dealing with this is to the point where long time players who are willing to give up RP that they used to think is fun and engaging (and the power, of course, that's a foregone conclusion) to not have to spend real fucking life hours of dealing with it. Changes have been rejected again and again - even despite the fact that we've signaled repeatedly we're willing to sacrifice realism, we're willing to sacrifice flavour that separates communes and cities, and the mechanical power advantage. Because Estarra doesn't want to sacrifice the realism and the flavour that separates communes and cities, we're stuck with having to deal with this.
Well, if we're stuck with having to deal with this, you're stuck with having to listen to us "whine".
Oh. Yeah. I agree that it creates work for someone and that may be perceived as an annoyance but I don't think cutting down Elder#111 in some random niche of Glomdoring/Serenwilde which will never become a bonded totem is any extra work for anyone in any commune if they're only growing them for protection. Sorry if I came across as personal @Versalean
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Honestly? I thought we kept them for the runes and defensive capabilities.
We have more power than we know what to do with. I assumed we kept them up for defense, too, since all carved totems work for defense (unless I missed some huge change, which is possible, if not probable).
This changed years and years ago, unfortunately.
Has it been that long since I stumbled into Glomdoring? Holy crap.
Seems so! Totem defence depends on Crow/Stag users, which can be very few. I personally don't care if we don't replant at this point. I feel like Viravain might say some thing to us, but maybe it'll reach up top just how irritating the mechanic can be.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
If you're growing them for RP reasons then you should make a report to address them and separate the two entirely.
You should make a report and discuss it regardless if it's causing this much grief.
IF: Trees provided 0 power and weren't used as statues I would say that cutting them down is just griefing. As it stands I don't think you can claim it is.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Comments
Cant be surprised if theres some kick back really.
You can cut Serenwilde trees.
You don't -need- to replant trees and frankly it's unfair not to use a mechanic of the game. As long as cutting trees remains a mechanical thing you can't really be mad at the player. They're just playing the game. Soft playerbase is soft.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
And yes, we do need to replant trees, because they are a vital protection mechanism.
The only unreasonable part is that it falls on 2.5 guilds (but really only 1) to plant and only 1 guild to carve - meaning a small handful of the same people are dealing with this every single time. It's not fair to @Crek @Dylara @Enyalida, etc. personally. I don't have any sympathy for the communes at large when trees get chopped down - I do pity the same poor druids who always have to deal with the fallout.
Why is there not some construct power that gives the abilities required to tend the forest to all commune members, the way all city members can go out and bash for power? Failing an envoy report like that, I think people should consider not replacing the trees. See what it's like to not have them, and make some decisions about whether or not this is actually worth your time and aggravation.
It is very hard to hear this issue come up again and again and again, but nothing ever changes. You guys just bitch and moan (I do love you) while you sweep all the powder back into the keg, so you can sit back down on it, hoping that nobody walks by with a match for a while. Break the cycle!
Vive l'apostrophe!
You don't grow >70 elders for totems when only ~4 of them can be runed. That's not a very good protection system given that if you were in trouble you'd just run and stand on the nexus. People don't really gank prime and if they're going to, they've already declared and can only kill you once. Having all the statues in Magnagora didn't stop me from going in and killing x y z a few times. You grow elders -> totems for the power.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
The passive power from totems has, and I say this with 98% confidence, outpaced any|all of the cities and their generation from their unique active cosmic power harvesting through the history of the game.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Vive l'apostrophe!
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Beckoning off Nexus.
Theft.
lolVines.
lolFires.
That argument has got absolutely no legs. Dbaggery is dbaggery whatever the code permits.
Beckoning off a nexus is an entirely different scale. You don't get free power for standing afk on a nexus. Totems give a power buff to an org and can be countered. They're conflict. Beckoning off a nexus was also addressed.
Theft = selfishness. You can't drop it in lusternia.
Vines and fires I'm fine with. I never said otherwise.
Your arguments have a weak relation to the context. It might be rude to drop meteors for fires/vines but I don't believe that conflict should only be restricted to the few pvp events we have in the game. As a pvper this game is pretty static. The opportunity for 'conflict' is so slim, especially including timezones.
You are growing >80 trees for 'protection' when only ~5 can be totems and you're getting upset when the ones which weren't being used as protection were cut down when they reverted.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
At this point, I just am not dealing with it. So thanks to the folks who have helped me, wish I could do more but I'm not spending my extremely limited evenings where I don't have doctors appointments fixing this right now.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Anyone who points at the power gain is distracting you.
Also don't mine me, I'm just bored at work.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
You should have grief at the fact that the power part of the totems restricts them from being as accessible as statues.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Look at the efforts of just one person in Lavinya, add to that culture/domoths/constructs/villages and power isn't a treasured commodity.
Sure we use it to summon new guards, but it's a drop in the ocean. It's mostly used for TAs and at this point the urgency of "We need a TA, best power drive" doesn't exist. It's "oh hey , 4 mil. Could raise a TA."
Commune power generation is less an issue of "we need that" for cities and more "we don't have, but we want."
So yeah, delete it and give us a more tenable defence system, especially for Serenwilde, that place has more holes than swiss cheese in regards to entry and exit.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
And then we get it turned around and accused of selfishly keeping this mechanic "just for the power".
I'm not a druid, I've never had the ability to plant nuts or carve totems.
I have sunk literal days of play time to gather nuts, patrol the forest, chase fuckers like Arcanis around, and it's not fun. I didn't find this a chore at the start. I literally earned my CR6 calling out Elder trees as a newbie. The RP was engaging, was fun, and continues to be the major, the only reason I give any shit about the trees. "Just let them all get cut down if you don't care about the power." Come on. Yarith, you've been a Glom. Talan, you were the literal role model for the way I treat RP as a Glom. You can't give me that bullshit and say you don't understand why we don't do that.
The chore of dealing with this is to the point where long time players who are willing to give up RP that they used to think is fun and engaging (and the power, of course, that's a foregone conclusion) to not have to spend real fucking life hours of dealing with it. Changes have been rejected again and again - even despite the fact that we've signaled repeatedly we're willing to sacrifice realism, we're willing to sacrifice flavour that separates communes and cities, and the mechanical power advantage. Because Estarra doesn't want to sacrifice the realism and the flavour that separates communes and cities, we're stuck with having to deal with this.
Well, if we're stuck with having to deal with this, you're stuck with having to listen to us "whine".
Sorry if I came across as personal @Versalean
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
You should make a report and discuss it regardless if it's causing this much grief.
IF: Trees provided 0 power and weren't used as statues I would say that cutting them down is just griefing.
As it stands I don't think you can claim it is.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it