Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited September 2017
40% sale + dingbats alone is a solid promo, I bought tons of credits during the 40% sales. Lotteries are just free gravy (and I never won a lottery ever).
Not everything needs to be Wondertoilet 5000 with laser beams to destroy your enemies.
10
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Unrelated idea suggestion: WONDERTOILET.
Level 20 power is the ability to FLUSH your enemies. Works like maze only more humiliating.
o.O A chance to win 1,000 credits every week, plus a chance to win 10,000 credits at the end of the month is 'underwhelming'?
Delivery devices are underwhelming if you already have one or have a beast with the delivery power. Dolls are only good for those who collectors. I suppose if you are buying credits for the tickets, that is something if you like luck based things.
I would consider 40/50% bonus and dingbats are basically nothing these days. Buying 2000 credits (Total 3000 with membership) only gets you 360 dingbats. While the bonus credits are nice at larger amounts, at small amounts it is not really enough with how most artifacts/credit items are priced.
specific numbers do change but the underlying point is the same... lotteries just don't affect the vast majority of people. So it's understandable (at least to me) to not get hyped over something that has a very low chance of affecting you...
If all you're doing is buying dingbats, then it is not a great deal. Thankfully you get all the credits that you would normally get for that price PLUS a significant bonus to those credits on top. As always for this type of promotion you are supposed to consider these things as bonuses, not the main reason to buy.
Generally I personally don't because I really don't need a ton of credits (so almost always I would be buying for the "bonus"), but it is always nice to have some unbounds on hand and this promotion is one of the best credit bonus promos I have ever seen... which leaves it tempting even to me.
If all you're doing is buying dingbats, then it is not a great deal. Thankfully you get all the credits that you would normally get for that price PLUS a significant bonus to those credits on top. As always for this type of promotion you are supposed to consider these things as bonuses, not the main reason to buy.
Generally I personally don't because I really don't need a ton of credits (so almost always I would be buying for the "bonus"), but it is always nice to have some unbounds on hand and this promotion is one of the best credit bonus promos I have ever seen... which leaves it tempting even to me.
The bonus at higher levels is nice, more so with it being one of the highest ones, sure. But as I said, at small amounts (<300), it is basically nothing. This comes up every time there is a bonus sale - I know you are buying the credits and the extras are just a bonus, but I didn't think people these days actually spent their money for the credits and not whatever promo bonus there was.
0
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Hey we want more newbie retention, right? These credit sales are great for starting characters. They might not be as appealing to someone who is trans in every skill, but I'd have liked this starting out, no doubt. It's not a bad gig.
I also like that you can get a lottery ticket just from logging in continuously. Are the odds great? Not really, but I'm always a fan of promotions that in some way reward you for logging in.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I would consider 40/50% bonus and dingbats are basically nothing these days.
I got no words at all for this. Like, honestly don't even know where to start.
So you think paying 580 USD to get 360 bonus dingbats is a great deal?
Emphasis added (see also the original comment in the quote). I'm not sure if this is your honest understanding of what you wrote or if you're purposefully strawmanning... yourself? But even assuming you believe that's what I meant and you typed, I can say, hand-on-heart, that my answer would be 'yes', for the reasons Xenbose has already stated.
I would consider 40/50% bonus and dingbats are basically nothing these days.
I got no words at all for this. Like, honestly don't even know where to start.
So you think paying 580 USD to get 360 bonus dingbats is a great deal?
Emphasis added (see also the original comment in the quote). I'm not sure if this is your honest understanding of what you wrote or if you're purposefully strawmanning... yourself? But even assuming you believe that's what I meant and you typed, I can say, hand-on-heart, that my answer would be 'yes', for the reasons Xenbose has already stated.
It is clear that we have different ideas of value. I, personally, would never recommend buying credits during this promo based on the bonus credits and dingbats. If maximizing the credits is the goal, there are arguably better promos - a wondercrystal promo, 1crystal per 100 credits, comes to mind first (assuming you sell the crystal at 100, this is 100% bonus. Or perhaps building a wondercorn for a longer term gains).
Where do you think the credits that people pay you for your wonder crystal even come from?
A bonus is exactly that: a bonus. It is added to the game out of "thin air" and is assured. Selling your bonus items to others requires them to have the resources to even buy your bonus in the first place and the value may fluctuate.
I honestly don't know what your argument is any more Here's my perception of the conversation we're having. I'm seriously not trying to misrepresent you here, just distilling the back-and-forth.
A: I would consider 40/50% bonus and dingbats are basically nothing these days. V: That makes so little sense I'm not sure how to respond. A: You mean to tell me X dingbats is a great deal? V: No. That isn't what I said. But actually it would be accurate if I had. A: Yeah, but there have been better promos before.
Which of these three different positions do you want me to respond to?
When you said you wasn't sure how to response because it made little sense, I assumed you referring to the bonus amounts being great and worthwhile. Thus my question asking if X dingbats would be a great deal to you. Which lead us into my statement about better promos for the highest amount of credits per dollar.
My position is that even at 40/50% bonus credits and dingbats (discounting the tickets due to being an unsure thing), the promo is underwhelming because there have been better promos that a person could spent their money on and that I feel that a person shouldn't buy credits for the credits.
But now we are probably getting into a discussion outside the scoop of the tweets thread.
Okay. We're now on the same page, which is awesome. I still entirely, but with the fullest possible respect, disagree with your position. This promo is fricking awesome. Ya'll folks should be tapping that plastic like it's up on the table with its titties out.
My post was originally about the artifact release. I don't think that a release of what is essentially dirigible skins and new dolls as the only offering can be described as anything but underwhelming. Not all artifact releases need to include a mandatory-for-pk artifact, but I think we can do better than either of these extremes. I can look at an artifact release and see nothing that I personally want but still think it's satisfactory as a release because at least there is new stuff in it. This one just doesn't meet this minimum standard for me.
As for the monetary parts of the promo, this is probably largely IRE-mandated so I wasn't even consciously thinking of that when I made the post. However, some people seem to think this is an amazing promo so I'll try to math it out to see how it really is compared to the promo we just had.
For argument's sake, I'll pretend you buy 2000 credits with the membership for roughly $600. This will get you 3000 credits, 360 dingbats, and 300 tickets in the lottery. Let's say, for argument's sake that each week there are only 600 tickets sold in each IRE game. Your chance of winning that lottery for the week you bought your credits in is 50%, so your expected value for that week's lottery is 500 credits. For the big draw at the end, there are four weeks and four games, so we're looking at 9600 tickets in total. Your chance of winning is therefore 3.125%, which only gives you an expected value of 312.5 credits. Dingbats are generally 1:1, so we're looking at 4172.5 credits worth plus whatever membership gets you for your $600 purchase. Of course, this is just the expected value. You have a almost 97% chance of getting a bit less than this and just over 3% of getting about 10000 credits more.
Thanks to the power of google cache, I was able to pull up last month's prices. For $299 you could get 20 wondercrystals and 40 presents, so 40 crystals and 80 presents for roughly $600. Wondercrystals can fairly consistently be sold for 100 credits each. This translates to about 4000 credits from the crystals and who knows what you'd get from 80 presents (I might try to math this out properly one day). Let's say an estimate of 10 credits, which I think is probably very conservative in the long run, so 800 credits for a total of 4800 credits. This is significantly higher than the current promotion.
Of course, not everyone has $600 to drop so let's say their budget is only around $100 plus membership. $105 gets you 450 credits, 30 dingbats and a 7.5% chance of an extra 1000 credits and a 0.46875% chance of getting an extra 10000 credits. Expected value is around 602 credits total, but you have over 92% chance of getting just the 480 from the original credits and dingbats. Compare this to roughly 600 credits from buying the $100 wondercrystal crate last month.
I think my numbers for tickets sold in the lottery are too low, especially for the IRE-wide draw, but at these odds I don't think the buy-in aspects of this promotion are bad, but I don't think they're amazing unless you really love to gamble (and presents/wheel are way more exciting for that than one-off draws imo).
My goodness do people spend a lot of time and energy on criticisms against generosities.
The first world problems are real.
Generosities..? IRE is a business...
Well... if anyone wins on a free ticket, congratulations to them and yes, that will be pretty nice for them. The rest of it, though... it's all marketing to try to get you to open your wallet. If some people don't see value... it's entirely their right to not spend...
My goodness do people spend a lot of time and energy on criticisms against generosities.
The first world problems are real.
Generosities..? IRE is a business...
Well... if anyone wins on a free ticket, congratulations to them and yes, that will be pretty nice for them. The rest of it, though... it's all marketing to try to get you to open your wallet. If some people don't see value... it's entirely their right to not spend...
Of course it's their right to do what they want with their money, but damn, do we need to criticize every move IRE makes, business-wise? (BTW, they're not obligated to offer any bonuses to any extent, so I do consider it a generosity)
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
My goodness do people spend a lot of time and energy on criticisms against generosities.
The first world problems are real.
Generosities..? IRE is a business...
Well... if anyone wins on a free ticket, congratulations to them and yes, that will be pretty nice for them. The rest of it, though... it's all marketing to try to get you to open your wallet. If some people don't see value... it's entirely their right to not spend...
Of course it's their right to do what they want with their money, but damn, do we need to criticize every move IRE makes, business-wise? (BTW, they're not obligated to offer any bonuses to any extent, so I do consider it a generosity)
Well... I find the analyses helpful as, if/when I do spend, I want to do so efficiently...
Yes, IRE can do what they want... but I think it's helpful for them to know what kind of promotions their customers see value in..? Like any business, it's a mutual arrangement... they want to make money in return for providing something, and customers want to receive something they see as valuable in exchange... naturally, both sides tend to want to maximize their end...
So... I think it is in IRE's interest to figure out which promotions are most effective in convincing their customers to spend... and it's in the customers'/players' interest to know how and when to get the most out of what they spend..
You know that a post on the forums from one/two people aren't really going to give them a great idea in what their customers see value in, right? They actually have, you know, real purchase information that shows exactly what people like to spend their cash on.
There's a reason we see promotions like this and not a lot of (for example) auctions. Customers vote with their wallet and the company listens.
I mean, if they were operating completely in a void there might be some value to that... but, well, actual data is king.
You know that a post on the forums from one/two people aren't really going to give them a great idea in what their customers see value in, right? They actually have, you know, real purchase information that shows exactly what people like to spend their cash on.
There's a reason we see promotions like this and not a lot of (for example) auctions. Customers vote with their wallet and the company listens.
I mean, if they were operating completely in a void there might be some value to that... but, well, actual data is king.
Fair point but then... why bother coming here to complain about complaints..? Let them be unhappy and carry on...
I'm sure people voted with their wallets during the crate promo. So the ideal is obviously to get that rolling again, right.
Awesome. I've spent twenty-four hours trying hard not to bring that up. But you just opened it up. Let's do this. I feel it'll help us all to contextualise the reactions of a certain individual to this underwhelming promo.
You know that a post on the forums from one/two people aren't really going to give them a great idea in what their customers see value in, right? They actually have, you know, real purchase information that shows exactly what people like to spend their cash on.
There's a reason we see promotions like this and not a lot of (for example) auctions. Customers vote with their wallet and the company listens.
I mean, if they were operating completely in a void there might be some value to that... but, well, actual data is king.
Fair point but then... why bother coming here to complain about complaints..? Let them be unhappy and carry on...
Something about being bothered by the vitriol being generated by said complaints and also, being appreciative of IRE and the fantastic games they create (which is done with huge amounts of help from unpaid volunteers), wishing to point out that it's a bit unkind to constantly be griping about and harping on them.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops And endless starless night Singing how the wind was lost Before an earthly flight
I'm rarely swimming in extra cash, so this type of promotion that can also help me towards Omnitrans, a custom beast, and some of the other artefacts I want especially since one of my only must-haves in my budget is my membership.
Arguing about value seems like a waste of a perfectly good start to a weekend, though.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited September 2017
Regardless of what the promo was last month, it's still a good promo. Especially for new players benefiting from the credit to bound credit conversion. The GAP doesn't have the same 50% off Store wide sale every month either. Honestly, do those complaining ever go shopping? You shop the sales the fit your needs. Good grief.
Do wonder crystals have a tradein value? I don't remember.
I honestly don't have a lot of disagreement with Falmiis' assessment; the dingbat artifacts just are underwhelming to me, but from my standpoint the dingbat artifacts aren't really the point of the promotion anyways so no real loss there. (I do have to point out that he's not counting the lesson bonus from binding credits for the first however many lessons it is, for a new character, which is boosted considerably when you get a bunch of bonus credits and shifts the value in this promotion up in that regard)
My main issue is with the declaration that the promotion itself isn't worth it at all (Ayisdra's assessment) because it sends the wrong message to people who are on the fence. If you can't afford it, then don't chip in. But don't be put off by someone declaring it's a terrible promotion when it's really not. Invest, or not, your choice, based on what you need and what you'll get from it.
Comments
Not everything needs to be Wondertoilet 5000 with laser beams to destroy your enemies.
Level 20 power is the ability to FLUSH your enemies. Works like maze only more humiliating.
I would consider 40/50% bonus and dingbats are basically nothing these days. Buying 2000 credits (Total 3000 with membership) only gets you 360 dingbats. While the bonus credits are nice at larger amounts, at small amounts it is not really enough with how most artifacts/credit items are priced.
Generally I personally don't because I really don't need a ton of credits (so almost always I would be buying for the "bonus"), but it is always nice to have some unbounds on hand and this promotion is one of the best credit bonus promos I have ever seen... which leaves it tempting even to me.
I also like that you can get a lottery ticket just from logging in continuously. Are the odds great? Not really, but I'm always a fan of promotions that in some way reward you for logging in.
A bonus is exactly that: a bonus. It is added to the game out of "thin air" and is assured. Selling your bonus items to others requires them to have the resources to even buy your bonus in the first place and the value may fluctuate.
A: I would consider 40/50% bonus and dingbats are basically nothing these days.
V: That makes so little sense I'm not sure how to respond.
A: You mean to tell me X dingbats is a great deal?
V: No. That isn't what I said. But actually it would be accurate if I had.
A: Yeah, but there have been better promos before.
Which of these three different positions do you want me to respond to?
My position is that even at 40/50% bonus credits and dingbats (discounting the tickets due to being an unsure thing), the promo is underwhelming because there have been better promos that a person could spent their money on and that I feel that a person shouldn't buy credits for the credits.
But now we are probably getting into a discussion outside the scoop of the tweets thread.
As for the monetary parts of the promo, this is probably largely IRE-mandated so I wasn't even consciously thinking of that when I made the post. However, some people seem to think this is an amazing promo so I'll try to math it out to see how it really is compared to the promo we just had.
For argument's sake, I'll pretend you buy 2000 credits with the membership for roughly $600. This will get you 3000 credits, 360 dingbats, and 300 tickets in the lottery. Let's say, for argument's sake that each week there are only 600 tickets sold in each IRE game. Your chance of winning that lottery for the week you bought your credits in is 50%, so your expected value for that week's lottery is 500 credits. For the big draw at the end, there are four weeks and four games, so we're looking at 9600 tickets in total. Your chance of winning is therefore 3.125%, which only gives you an expected value of 312.5 credits. Dingbats are generally 1:1, so we're looking at 4172.5 credits worth plus whatever membership gets you for your $600 purchase. Of course, this is just the expected value. You have a almost 97% chance of getting a bit less than this and just over 3% of getting about 10000 credits more.
Thanks to the power of google cache, I was able to pull up last month's prices. For $299 you could get 20 wondercrystals and 40 presents, so 40 crystals and 80 presents for roughly $600. Wondercrystals can fairly consistently be sold for 100 credits each. This translates to about 4000 credits from the crystals and who knows what you'd get from 80 presents (I might try to math this out properly one day). Let's say an estimate of 10 credits, which I think is probably very conservative in the long run, so 800 credits for a total of 4800 credits. This is significantly higher than the current promotion.
Of course, not everyone has $600 to drop so let's say their budget is only around $100 plus membership. $105 gets you 450 credits, 30 dingbats and a 7.5% chance of an extra 1000 credits and a 0.46875% chance of getting an extra 10000 credits. Expected value is around 602 credits total, but you have over 92% chance of getting just the 480 from the original credits and dingbats. Compare this to roughly 600 credits from buying the $100 wondercrystal crate last month.
I think my numbers for tickets sold in the lottery are too low, especially for the IRE-wide draw, but at these odds I don't think the buy-in aspects of this promotion are bad, but I don't think they're amazing unless you really love to gamble (and presents/wheel are way more exciting for that than one-off draws imo).
The first world problems are real.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
Well... if anyone wins on a free ticket, congratulations to them and yes, that will be pretty nice for them. The rest of it, though... it's all marketing to try to get you to open your wallet. If some people don't see value... it's entirely their right to not spend...
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
Yes, IRE can do what they want... but I think it's helpful for them to know what kind of promotions their customers see value in..? Like any business, it's a mutual arrangement... they want to make money in return for providing something, and customers want to receive something they see as valuable in exchange... naturally, both sides tend to want to maximize their end...
So... I think it is in IRE's interest to figure out which promotions are most effective in convincing their customers to spend... and it's in the customers'/players' interest to know how and when to get the most out of what they spend..
There's a reason we see promotions like this and not a lot of (for example) auctions. Customers vote with their wallet and the company listens.
I mean, if they were operating completely in a void there might be some value to that... but, well, actual data is king.
Tonight amidst the mountaintops
And endless starless night
Singing how the wind was lost
Before an earthly flight
Arguing about value seems like a waste of a perfectly good start to a weekend, though.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Do wonder crystals have a tradein value? I don't remember.
My main issue is with the declaration that the promotion itself isn't worth it at all (Ayisdra's assessment) because it sends the wrong message to people who are on the fence. If you can't afford it, then don't chip in. But don't be put off by someone declaring it's a terrible promotion when it's really not. Invest, or not, your choice, based on what you need and what you'll get from it.