Just a random thought from overhearing people talk on the starmourn discord, but ironically not about starmourn. It really sounds like theft pervades every aspect of Achaea's play. Newbies getting their newbie clothes/packs stolen just because, extensive trigger systems to try to stop it, and apparently estates are even divided into areas by security grades, with less secure areas for hosting guests and such... It sounds like a huge hassle that makes you paranoid about everything.
I'm really glad we don't have to deal with all that in Lusternia...
Just a random thought from overhearing people talk on the starmourn discord, but ironically not about starmourn. It really sounds like theft pervades every aspect of Achaea's play. Newbies getting their newbie clothes/packs stolen just because, extensive trigger systems to try to stop it, and apparently estates are even divided into areas by security grades, with less secure areas for hosting guests and such... It sounds like a huge hassle that makes you paranoid about everything.
I'm really glad we don't have to deal with all that in Lusternia...
Coming from Achaea myself, I can 100% confirm and echo this.
In general, it seems like some pretty healthy boundaries on trolling and forcing in Lusternia. Can't take someone into a manse via empress/lust or hypnotise either. There's 0 risk to shopkeeping as well.
Having been thieved from a bunch in Achaea, it can be rough. I remember having my pack stolen twice while trying to learn my very first honours quest in the game. Rough intro for a newbie, but Bopalopia is still one of my favourite IRE areas of all time. Scamming each other wasn't entirely uncommon back in the day either- like offering to sell someone 10 credits for 100,000 gold and then transferring them 1 credit for 100,000 gold etc. Hiring mercenaries and collecting bounties was also way more prevalent, and I never had an issue finding someone to volunteer their time to murder a thief but now I'm just feeling nostalgic for the old days.
Just a random thought from overhearing people talk on the starmourn discord, but ironically not about starmourn. It really sounds like theft pervades every aspect of Achaea's play. Newbies getting their newbie clothes/packs stolen just because, extensive trigger systems to try to stop it, and apparently estates are even divided into areas by security grades, with less secure areas for hosting guests and such... It sounds like a huge hassle that makes you paranoid about everything.
I'm really glad we don't have to deal with all that in Lusternia...
Coming from Achaea myself, I can 100% confirm and echo this.
You forgot the way it pervades trolling too. I've literally seen somebody rob another character blind and then post the log to forums. MKO was similar. I have personally spent RL hours agreeing terms with a thief for the return of my property, when what they are really trying to do is either make you lose your shit on the wrong side of the keyboard, inflate their ego, or otherwise make it a special night for them. Hell, you would frequently see versions of the following:
(Market) Thief says, "Selling the pack and contents I just stole from Yehn."
I love, love, love theft in RPG games. Thieves are also a great trope in fantasy writing. But IRE players have repeatedly shown that they lack the collective restraint, decorum, and perspective for theft to be a positive impact on the game. I really would love it if it worked, but the bottom line is that while you can sometimes have a meaningful (hell, even enjoyable) PVP loss, the situations in which theft RP is meaningful and satisfying for both parties are vanishingly rare.
Just a random thought from overhearing people talk on the starmourn discord, but ironically not about starmourn. It really sounds like theft pervades every aspect of Achaea's play. Newbies getting their newbie clothes/packs stolen just because, extensive trigger systems to try to stop it, and apparently estates are even divided into areas by security grades, with less secure areas for hosting guests and such... It sounds like a huge hassle that makes you paranoid about everything.
I'm really glad we don't have to deal with all that in Lusternia...
Coming from Achaea myself, I can 100% confirm and echo this.
You forgot the way it pervades trolling too. I've literally seen somebody rob another character blind and then post the log to forums. MKO was similar. I have personally spent RL hours agreeing terms with a thief for the return of my property, when what they are really trying to do is either make you lose your shit on the wrong side of the keyboard, inflate their ego, or otherwise make it a special night for them. Hell, you would frequently see versions of the following:
(Market) Thief says, "Selling the pack and contents I just stole from Yehn."
I love, love, love theft in RPG games. Thieves are also a great trope in fantasy writing. But IRE players have repeatedly shown that they lack the collective restraint, decorum, and perspective for theft to be a positive impact on the game. I really would love it if it worked, but the bottom line is that while you can sometimes have a meaningful (hell, even enjoyable) PVP loss, the situations in which theft RP is meaningful and satisfying for both parties are vanishingly rare.
Oh, I didn't forget that at all (although I'd like to). I very much remember having everything stolen as a newbie and then the mocking market tells that followed. They'd even take newbie journals full of guild advancement notes and stuff, and hold it ransom. It was against game rules to rob someone under level 30 but it still happened (and besides, at level 31, you're still newbie enough that being robbed is a huge blow). For a long time, selfishness was a very high-level ability, one you couldn't get without buying credits. And even that could be stripped but it was still a pretty basic necessity, yet out of reach for most people by the time they got to level 30.
When you couldn't step outside your city without being robbed blind (sometimes even inside your city), it pretty much ruined the game for a lot of people. I also remember having hundreds of thousands of gold worth of goods stolen from my shop -- by a citymate. And everyone just shrugging their shoulders about it.
The admins finally nerfed theft a bit (you can no longer rob someone blind in one fell swoop), but for a lot of us, it was too little too late. I fully agree with you about a potentially valid RP route being ruined by players.
You cannot steal specific items on Achaea reliably anymore. Theft hasn't been a super destructive mechanic for several years now and it's very rare that I hear of a catastrophic robbery that doesn't involve prisming (teleporting) to someone in a shop stockroom.
Just a random thought from overhearing people talk on the starmourn discord, but ironically not about starmourn. It really sounds like theft pervades every aspect of Achaea's play. Newbies getting their newbie clothes/packs stolen just because, extensive trigger systems to try to stop it, and apparently estates are even divided into areas by security grades, with less secure areas for hosting guests and such... It sounds like a huge hassle that makes you paranoid about everything.
I'm really glad we don't have to deal with all that in Lusternia...
Coming from Achaea myself, I can 100% confirm and echo this.
You forgot the way it pervades trolling too. I've literally seen somebody rob another character blind and then post the log to forums. MKO was similar. I have personally spent RL hours agreeing terms with a thief for the return of my property, when what they are really trying to do is either make you lose your shit on the wrong side of the keyboard, inflate their ego, or otherwise make it a special night for them. Hell, you would frequently see versions of the following:
(Market) Thief says, "Selling the pack and contents I just stole from Yehn."
I love, love, love theft in RPG games. Thieves are also a great trope in fantasy writing. But IRE players have repeatedly shown that they lack the collective restraint, decorum, and perspective for theft to be a positive impact on the game. I really would love it if it worked, but the bottom line is that while you can sometimes have a meaningful (hell, even enjoyable) PVP loss, the situations in which theft RP is meaningful and satisfying for both parties are vanishingly rare.
There was one MUD I played YEARS ago now (can't remember the name, sadly) that actually had a really good theft mechanic that focussed around risk/reward. If one stole from another player, they were flagged for free PvP killing for 5 RL hours plus were more vulnerable to being killed (you had to be logged in, the timer would freeze when you logged out, during which time you took something like 10% more damage from other adventurers, which stacked with each theft you committed), plus if you got killed, the one that did the killing in turn would receive the option of taking some of YOUR belongings.
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
I've not played achaea in years but I remember the days of pupetry theft. Summon to a locked room with a totem. Slow lock and get a snake to full lock them then shake them for all their goods.
Yrael was one of those theives you didn't mind though, cause A. he tended to return what he stole, unless he really really liked it and B. He was sooooo easy to kill
Once again We would like to remind you all that personal attacks are not permitted on Lusternia's forums. We are disappointed that this thread has been the home of multiple such incidents recently. If this continues We will have no option but to close this thread. Please do not force Us to do so.
Would have to depend on the power quest; Glomdoring's requires that you put things in the Nexus, and there was a hard-coded change a while back that prevents people from outside the organization putting stuff in the Nexus (back when a Certain Someone was putting Demon Lord corpses in the Pool of Stars when Celest didn't want to do it-- sounds crazy, right?).
No, it was a black market where thieves could resell things they stole from other players at ridiculous prices, the items sold would have the original owner's name next to them IIRC
No, it was a black market where thieves could resell things they stole from other players at ridiculous prices, the items sold would have the original owner's name next to them IIRC
Tell me they didn't really implement that in the end...
No, it was a black market where thieves could resell things they stole from other players at ridiculous prices, the items sold would have the original owner's name next to them IIRC
Tell me they didn't really implement that in the end...
Yes, yes they did.
Moon Priestess Ridien says, "The blood of an animal, however, can also be a tool. Consider fetishes -
- efficient, powerful tools created by ecologists. It is exactly as Kendra says -- a tool of bones
and blood that has been magnified, changed, enchanted. Made into a tool."
Theft in Achaea is easily avoidable now. You literally just have to configure selfishness on keep-up, which their server-side system can do (and it being server-side means that it'll still keep-up even if you D/C).
Theft is annoying, but to say that it's still pervasive in Achaea is false.
Did a little web trawling, from what I can find, the decision was made to close it down because it was not financially viable to pay for the licensing cost of the related medium in comparison to the active player base (unique individuals playing, not just characters rolled) .
Never put passion before principle. Even if you win, you lose.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
Did a little web trawling, from what I can find, the decision was made to close it down because it was not financially viable to pay for the licensing cost of the related medium in comparison to the active player base (unique individuals playing, not just characters rolled) .
Did a little web trawling, from what I can find, the decision was made to close it down because it was not financially viable to pay for the licensing cost of the related medium in comparison to the active player base (unique individuals playing, not just characters rolled) .
Which is not mutually exclusive to the point that there were valid reasons people didn't feel invested enough to invest.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Comments
I'm really glad we don't have to deal with all that in Lusternia...
Having been thieved from a bunch in Achaea, it can be rough. I remember having my pack stolen twice while trying to learn my very first honours quest in the game. Rough intro for a newbie, but Bopalopia is still one of my favourite IRE areas of all time. Scamming each other wasn't entirely uncommon back in the day either- like offering to sell someone 10 credits for 100,000 gold and then transferring them 1 credit for 100,000 gold etc. Hiring mercenaries and collecting bounties was also way more prevalent, and I never had an issue finding someone to volunteer their time to murder a thief but now I'm just feeling nostalgic for the old days.
(Market) Thief says, "Selling the pack and contents I just stole from Yehn."
I love, love, love theft in RPG games. Thieves are also a great trope in fantasy writing. But IRE players have repeatedly shown that they lack the collective restraint, decorum, and perspective for theft to be a positive impact on the game. I really would love it if it worked, but the bottom line is that while you can sometimes have a meaningful (hell, even enjoyable) PVP loss, the situations in which theft RP is meaningful and satisfying for both parties are vanishingly rare.
When you couldn't step outside your city without being robbed blind (sometimes even inside your city), it pretty much ruined the game for a lot of people. I also remember having hundreds of thousands of gold worth of goods stolen from my shop -- by a citymate. And everyone just shrugging their shoulders about it.
The admins finally nerfed theft a bit (you can no longer rob someone blind in one fell swoop), but for a lot of us, it was too little too late. I fully agree with you about a potentially valid RP route being ruined by players.
Pervading every aspect of Achaean play? Hardly.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?
...but that's just the impression the conversations I've been lurking in on gave me...
Theft is annoying, but to say that it's still pervasive in Achaea is false.
Accountability is necessary.
If olive oil comes from olives, where does baby oil come from?
If vegetarians eat vegetables, what do humanitarians eat?