At the very least, scum killing Saran makes me genuinely look suspicious, so I can at least respect the decision to lynch me today if it happens. Saran's logic was flabbergastingly stupid, so lynching me yesterday would have left me a bit peeved.
Oh, and obvious post script: if Sylandra comes on while I'm asleep and claims to have not been visited by my statue, then Sylandra is the scum. But otherwise I'm resting my hopes that I made the right call.
If Sylandra is town but still not convinced by my last effort, then I should have probably fortuned Saran after all and I just got outplayed. Can't be mad about losing if I lost because I made a wrong call.
Obviously, the numbers would adjust in order to account for lost scum. With two scum, you'd kill every other night; with one, you'd kill every night.
If there is indeed one and only one scum remaining, it's impossible that it was me. Sylandra would know that for certain, whatever Sylandra's allegiance winds up being.
If one scum remains and Sylandra is town, I have to trust their case for my innocence in my absence. (Sorry, Sylandra.)
If one scum remains and Sylandra is that scum, then scum have won. Tough odds there.
(This has been my first time actually playing forum mafia here. Is there typically any post-game chatter? Regardless, it's been great.)
Last post for real, I'll leave with a vote: Ssaliss. Not out of spite, though it'll look like that. But not out of any real targetted reason either.
Just that if Sylandra is town, that only leaves four other possibilities (since we know Synkarin is clear). Out of those last four, I guess I'm pretty 50/50 on Ssaliss or Luce, but for saving Celina I'll give Luce one last benefit of doubt.
"'Cause the fighting don't stop till I walk in." -Synkarin's Lament.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
To be fair, I feel everyone at this point has gone through a hypothetical Saran speculation.
Regardless, I did get mongoosed last night and I did successfully block @Shaddus. So we know 1) Shaddus isn't scum because someone died and 2) for anyone curious, the flavour text for Azureus was a playful pawing on my shoulder by a friendly mongoose.
Let's recap what Azureus has done re: protections so far. Off the top of my head, he has protected Luce, Celina, me... Those people (assuming Luce is town) are town. Wouldn't it be more useful to mongoose people who were scum to protect them against scrutiny? At this point, you could feasibly argue "oh night 1 I had no idea" with doe-eyed innocence regarding a scum protection, but as I recall, that wasn't the case, was it? And I don't recall anyone being mongoose blocked while attempting to interact with the scum in the night.
Another important point: Kira's role text shows that nightkills and night powers are an either/or. Recall how Tremula couldn't investigate and nightkill at the same time ergo her weird theory. If Azureus mongoosed me (he did), I'm assuming he can't be the one who killed Saran. I might be wrong, but that seems to be the case.
Assuming that, since @Siam sent a vision, he couldn't have done it either. Nor me, because I blocked Shaddus. Nor Shaddus, because he was blocked.
While I've been trusting of @Luce, here's a reason not to be: Luce hasn't been talking lately. Luce hasn't been watched at night because we assume Luce has no night powers. Luce defended a questionable town on day 1, who has since been confirmed multiple times, making Luce appear town by default. It's possible Luce did this to gain our implicit trust. I'll notice Luce hasn't used his power since, but threatened to use it to protect Tremula the weekend she was away. Curious, no?
It's possible Azureus is scum, but rolestopper is a power that goes both ways and is one of the more useful powers we have left. Further, it's one of the main explanations we have for why no one died the first few nights, unless we assume that's all thanks to @Allyrianne having nk immunity and @Ssaliss being jailor.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
You'll recall that I threatened rather than invoking specifically because I wanted to leave the option of lynching Tremula open.
Work's been crazy busy and I haven't been able to do much after work aside from eat and sleep.
For my two cents, I'll buy @Azureus for now thanks to the mongoose still acting, and since Synkarin is confirmed town and Shaddus was blocked last night, that leaves Ssaliss, and Sylandra?
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
@Luce: if you're willing to buy Azureus, Synkarin, and Shaddus, then you're inevitably willing to buy me as acting roleblocker last night as well, meaning you agree that I'm not scum. If we hold that you can't do a night power and a nightkill at the same time, then I can't roleblock and nightkill at the same time. So that actually leaves you and Ssaliss. Ssaliss, who we know the scum definitely targeted one night, which seems odd if he's the scum person left over. Who does this leave for you, I wonder?
For me, it only leaves Luce.
So I'm doing some digging and I've discovered 1) Luce has really been gunning to lynch Azureus, and 2) Luce didn't hop on the Tremula wagon. Here are some results of my digging:
If there's any doubt that I don't have a night action, I can always be envisioned.
I believe that we've already seen via Tremula that nightkills aren't revealed by the visions, so if he were scum, Luce would have nothing to worry about. Actually, the post before this one reveals that Luce already knows that:
I kind of feel like Siam's powers are kind of a non-issue to scum, though, since we get a little bit of role and the powers, and have to extrapolate from there, as opposed to, say, having one be able to tell us definitively, xyz is Mafia.
The third kitsune is a he. Ermine's a she. I would also like it on the record that while I'm ambivalent about German, I sincerely regret teaching her to speak and read Russian.
I was going to make a point about Tremula revealing Celina's role's name, but after some digging, Celina requested that name specifically. And even made the parallel to Lucifer, who was an angel. I see what you did there, @Kiradawea.
Right now I'm not trusting @Azureus' claim as much, both because of the mongoose imagery, and because everyone's been calling the role a protector, but it's been acting like Escort/Consort.
^Also recall that Luce was the one who brought up ermines being like mongoose in the first place, throwing initial suspicion on Azureus. If Azureus is protector/roleblocker combo and not allied with mafia, then he is very dangerous to the scum. It would be in their best interests to off him, either by nightkilling or by nightkilling his most vocal opposition, @Saran.
Of note, nowhere did I confirm or imply that my Governer role is one-off. In fact, I rather implicitly threatened to use it a couple RL days ago while waiting for Tremula.
I'm also somewhat leery of there being two distinct Doctors in the same game, so...
Unvote, Vote: Azureus
for now.
Definitely didn't notice this until Luce brought it up, but Luce was willing to defend Tremula with the governor ability when circumstances made it socially acceptable to do so. But Luce never hopped on the Tremula train, DESPITE being leery of two doctors. Why not also be leery of two investigators? Hmmm. The option to lynch might have been left open, but Luce never took it.
Keep also in mind that our lynchtrains have been chug-chug-chugging along most of this game. The first train after day 1 that Luce has even lifted a pinky to block has been Tremula, and Luce did not vote Tremula when we lynched her. Enyalida got slain without a courtesy call, as our local zombie reminded us. Why the sudden courtesy to Tremula?
Someone contradict me if you notice something I don't. But for me, this leaves me with Vote: Luce.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Oh my god those quotes are so screwed up. Stand by while I make a more coherent post.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
@Luce: if you're willing to buy Azureus, Synkarin, and Shaddus, then you're inevitably willing to buy me as acting roleblocker last night as well, meaning you agree that I'm not scum. If we hold that you can't do a night power and a nightkill at the same time, then I can't roleblock and nightkill at the same time. So that actually leaves you and Ssaliss. Ssaliss, who we know the scum definitely targeted one night, which seems odd if he's the scum person left over. Who does this leave for you, I wonder?
For me, it only leaves Luce.
So I'm doing some digging and I've discovered 1) Luce has really been gunning to lynch Azureus, and 2) Luce didn't hop on the Tremula wagon. Here are some results of my digging:
Luce said: If there's any doubt that I don't have a night action, I can always be envisioned.
I believe that we've already seen via Tremula that nightkills aren't revealed by the visions, so if he were scum, Luce would have nothing to worry about. Actually, the post before this one reveals that Luce already knows that:
Luce said: I kind of feel like Siam's powers are kind of a non-issue to scum, though, since we get a little bit of role and the powers, and have to extrapolate from there, as opposed to, say, having one be able to tell us definitively, xyz is Mafia.
Suspicious.
Luce said: The third kitsune is a he. Ermine's a she. I would also like it on the record that while I'm ambivalent about German, I sincerely regret teaching her to speak and read Russian. I was going to make a point about Tremula revealing Celina's role's name, but after some digging, Celina requested that name specifically. And even made the parallel to Lucifer, who was an angel. I see what you did there,@Kiradawea. Right now I'm not trusting @Azureus' claim as much, both because of the mongoose imagery, and because everyone's been calling the role a protector, but it's been acting like Escort/Consort.
^Also recall that Luce was the one who brought up ermines being like mongoose in the first place, throwing initial suspicion on Azureus. If Azureus is protector/roleblocker combo and not allied with mafia, then he is very dangerous to the scum. It would be in their best interests to off him, either by nightkilling or by nightkilling his most vocal opposition, @Saran.
Luce said: Of note, nowhere did I confirm or imply that my Governer role is one-off. In fact, I rather implicitly threatened to use it a couple RL days ago while waiting for Tremula. I'm also somewhat leery of there being two distinct Doctors in the same game, so... Unvote, Vote: Azureus for now.
Definitely didn't notice this until Luce brought it up, but Luce was willing to defend Tremula with the governor ability when circumstances made it socially acceptable to do so. But Luce never hopped on the Tremula train, DESPITE being leery of two doctors. Why not also be leery of two investigators? Hmmm. The option to lynch might have been left open, but Luce never took it.
Keep also in mind that our lynchtrains have been chug-chug-chugging along most of this game. The first train after day 1 that Luce has even lifted a pinky to block has been Tremula, and Luce did not vote Tremula when we lynched her. Enyalida got slain without a courtesy call, as our local zombie reminded us. Why the sudden courtesy to Tremula?
Someone contradict me if you notice something I don't. But for me, this leaves me with Vote: Luce.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
From what I've gathered, Azureus is a super-protector of a kind, since he seems to block all night actions towards the target, but he doesn't actually block the target from acting. Which, to be frank, hurts town more than scum, since town won't be able to investigate his target either.
The roleblocker/protector combo would be me.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
To further spell this out, here's what we know about last night:
Synkarin: nothing (confirmed town by mod) Azureus: protected Sylandra from night actions
Sylandra: blocked Shaddus
Shaddus: blocked
Ssaliss: jailed himself? (Semi-confirmed town due to being target of scum attacks)
Siam: sent vision of Shaddus to Ssaliss
Luce: ???
Math.
Re: rolestopper vs jailer, links provided. Both of you kind of roleblock but in different ways; you stop whoever you jail from acting AND from being acted on, while the rolestopper only does the latter.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm actually confused as to why scum didn't hold off on killing to put suspicion on me.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
If we lynch Azureus then what we are saying is that a scum can both take a night action and do a nightkill in the same night, a theory which Tremula's spotty investigating makes unlikely. That's why I'm inclined to think either Luce or Ssaliss is who we are really choosing between.
Also I just checked and Luce didn't vote to lynch Tarkenton or Tremula. Whoa.
I'm actually confused as to why scum didn't hold off on killing to put suspicion on me.
That crossed my mind too! I really do think lynching @Saran was a strange choice, unless put in the context of putting suspicion on Azureus. It also might have been a 'oh no I'm so outnumbered' moment. Anyway, I'm glad they chose to nightkill. It makes things easier to work with.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Don't we only have Ssaliss's own word that he was the target attacked that night?
And I seem to remember more than just me being suspicious of both that surprise immunity and the fact that, for a jailor, all he was willing to do was jail himself.
Don't we only have Ssaliss's own word that he was the target attacked that night?
And I seem to remember more than just me being suspicious of both that surprise immunity and the fact that, for a jailor, all he was willing to do was jail himself.
Well, as to the first point, no one has come forward so far to say otherwise.
As to the second, I already explained that: I'm unwilling to block people from acting. I mean, imagine if I had blocked Azureus, and scum had targetted Sylandra? At that point, I'd be as good as guilty of that death.
Also, had you really expected the scum to come forward and say "Yeah, it was Ssaliss we targetted"? I mean, you'll only ever get my word for it; confirmation is likely impossible.
And Ssaliss claiming he only jails himself certainly takes heat off the 'act or kill' theme that seems to hit the mafia.
We're also taking Sylandra's word that she blocked Shaddus, but we don't know for sure, and there was a second night that she didn't act (as Xeria). @Shaddus, can you confirm you were blocked by chance?
I think it's important to note that all the mafia so far have a 'town role' and a 'scum role'
Tarkenton could redirect actions to him AND he could go through protections of his target
Tremula could investigate AND he could hide someone's role
So the fact that Azureus didn't act a couple of nights certainly casts suspicion on him, and the fact that we don't really have any more than Ssaliss word that he's jailing himself every night means those two are certainly suspicious to me.
Luce could possibly be scum, but didn't we say that a governer with the ability to protect people would be too OP at the beginning? What changed with that? Maybe Luce can prove the innocence of someone like myself or Shaddus to verify it wasn't a one shot or something?
I agree that it's unlikely Azureus killed someone last night, but it doesn't remove him from being scum (it just means we have more than one).
Well, Luce likely can't protect himself from being lynched, so the only OP thing would be that we'd have to lynch him before the rest of the scum. Also, it'd become really obvious if he kept protecting the same person over and over, so... yeah. Odds are that's why he never tried to de-lynch anyone after Celina (I mean, we'd have turned on him instantly if he protected Tarkenton or Tremula like that).
Yeah, I'll switch my vote to Luce, as all this makes sense to me.
On the duplication of roles, I'd mention that as more details were revealed about my power, I tried really hard to use the words "immunity" and "fortune" rather than protection. That's the flavor I've been given in this context, and I wanted to be consistent in that for anyone trying to find an equivalent in another theme (mafia/police, werewolf/village, etc).
So the fact that Azureus didn't act a couple of nights certainly casts suspicion on him
I'll ask this again: given the limitation of only being able to target a person once the entire game, why is it suspicious that I'd be conservative and not use it every single night during the early game?
Sure you could have been saving it, but you also could have been doing something else, just like Ssaliss could be telling us that he's jailing himself, but he's really doing other stuff at night
Comments
If Sylandra is town but still not convinced by my last effort, then I should have probably fortuned Saran after all and I just got outplayed. Can't be mad about losing if I lost because I made a wrong call.
And now: ZZzzzzzzzzzzzz
If one scum remains and Sylandra is town, I have to trust their case for my innocence in my absence. (Sorry, Sylandra.)
If one scum remains and Sylandra is that scum, then scum have won. Tough odds there.
(This has been my first time actually playing forum mafia here. Is there typically any post-game chatter? Regardless, it's been great.)
Just that if Sylandra is town, that only leaves four other possibilities (since we know Synkarin is clear). Out of those last four, I guess I'm pretty 50/50 on Ssaliss or Luce, but for saving Celina I'll give Luce one last benefit of doubt.
Vote: Luce.
Work's been crazy busy and I haven't been able to do much after work aside from eat and sleep.
For my two cents, I'll buy @Azureus for now thanks to the mongoose still acting, and since Synkarin is confirmed town and Shaddus was blocked last night, that leaves Ssaliss, and Sylandra?
I believe that we've already seen via Tremula that nightkills aren't revealed by the visions, so if he were scum, Luce would have nothing to worry about. Actually, the post before this one reveals that Luce already knows that: Suspicious.
^Also recall that Luce was the one who brought up ermines being like mongoose in the first place, throwing initial suspicion on Azureus. If Azureus is protector/roleblocker combo and not allied with mafia, then he is very dangerous to the scum. It would be in their best interests to off him, either by nightkilling or by nightkilling his most vocal opposition, @Saran. Definitely didn't notice this until Luce brought it up, but Luce was willing to defend Tremula with the governor ability when circumstances made it socially acceptable to do so. But Luce never hopped on the Tremula train, DESPITE being leery of two doctors. Why not also be leery of two investigators? Hmmm. The option to lynch might have been left open, but Luce never took it.
So I'm doing some digging and I've discovered 1) Luce has really been gunning to lynch Azureus, and 2) Luce didn't hop on the Tremula wagon. Here are some results of my digging:
I believe that we've already seen via Tremula that nightkills aren't revealed by the visions, so if he were scum, Luce would have nothing to worry about. Actually, the post before this one reveals that Luce already knows that:
Suspicious.
I was going to make a point about Tremula revealing Celina's role's name, but after some digging, Celina requested that name specifically. And even made the parallel to Lucifer, who was an angel. I see what you did there,@Kiradawea.
Right now I'm not trusting @Azureus' claim as much, both because of the mongoose imagery, and because everyone's been calling the role a protector, but it's been acting like Escort/Consort.
I'm also somewhat leery of there being two distinct Doctors in the same game, so...
Unvote, Vote: Azureus for now.
Azureus: protected Sylandra from night actions
Vote:Azureus
And I seem to remember more than just me being suspicious of both that surprise immunity and the fact that, for a jailor, all he was willing to do was jail himself.
As to the second, I already explained that: I'm unwilling to block people from acting. I mean, imagine if I had blocked Azureus, and scum had targetted Sylandra? At that point, I'd be as good as guilty of that death.
Really, you're stretching here.
On the duplication of roles, I'd mention that as more details were revealed about my power, I tried really hard to use the words "immunity" and "fortune" rather than protection. That's the flavor I've been given in this context, and I wanted to be consistent in that for anyone trying to find an equivalent in another theme (mafia/police, werewolf/village, etc).