While we are at it, let's dissolve all the, far too numerous, guilds. We all know people who arent all that qualified are just filling empty spots from lacking numbers.
Remove city/commune councils, make 3 guilds, focus on guilds for RPz. GG
my intention for stepping up to help revive my org and guild. (reworded to not come off wrong/aggressive, wasn't meant that way).
Why not scale back some of our treaties? Keep the halliglom one as they have given us some fairly noticable aide. Pair, say, Celests back to "we don't grief you on your epic or convert angels/supernals to fae/raise TBC" in return for "we don't shop totems/kill fae/grief you on your epic."
Personally, I'd prefer if we had something similar with all the cities, a basic pact that exists seperately from treaties.
Then we can just kill Serens all the time. And whomever can still team up to kill whomever they want.
The problem with deleting orgs is that many of you are huge crybabies and would have a hernia if you were the ones being deleted. In theory, I do think that's what needs to happen, though- I'll offer up Gaudiguch. I can take it.
Just something to complain about or are their structural changes that can be made that have not been discussed?
Would a concentration of political power by deleting some guild leaderships be useful?
If the player base voted and there was a simple majority in favor of admin (city gods) encouraging conflict between their community and all members non-community would the entire player base accept this situation?
Has the discussion run it's course?
Consolidation of guilds helps in indirect ways in my mind, part of the issue that's been mentioned is low population and for me the subdivision of orgs to the extent they have been is contributing to this (comments about covenants helping matters just make me think we should push it further to actual consolidation).
The other side is changing the current handling of leadership. Leaders are the people primarily in charge of forging these alliances, sure individuals within the org might hold a level of influence to get things done or might just do things on their own. But it's the council at the end of the day that makes the decision, it's also the council that gets to decide if the org even gets a vote on the matter(I believe Serenwilde hasn't actually had a referendum saying which way we want to go),
I'm not saying that player leadership shouldn't exist, but in its current state its problematic and I feel contributing to the issue being discussed, the focus for me is more on moving the council to election by the org, thereby making the entire council answerable to the entire org, and enabling people to contest whichever council member they actually have an issue with. Changing guilds is just a natural part of that because of the shift in/loss of responsibility for GM.
I guess I feel that it's more likely that people will look at their council and find at least one member that they really just want to get rid of, likely more.
So, what you're saying is that we should just blow up two orgs.
I vote Serenwilde and Celest -
Gaudi will welcome most of you with open arms
Let's be honest, if you just merged the forests most people wouldn't even notice. Some might not even need to change how they refer to them (I'm looking at you @Zvoltz :P)
A long time ago, a friend and I undertook a thought experiment along these lines. We came up with the outlines of an apocalyptic event (Ascension fails?) that forces the orgs to join together for their various causes. Our pairings were Glom-Seren, Hallifax-Celest, and Magnagora-Gaudiguch.
The Tree of Trees lands on Prime, taking up a large part of the Inner Sea and growing outwards to dominate the center of the Basin. Glom and Seren join forces to reshape the world by force, saving it from the warping of the soulless by destroying the cities and wiping clean the Basin so that in the new world, their system dominates. Magnagora and Gaudiguch combine and descend into the Undervault to live near the Illithoid, throwing off more of the Kepheran imprisonment of the Illithoid and becoming a kind of gothic nightmare. Morlock=esque Viscanti meet the truth behind the mysticism of Gaudi. Hallifax's flight becomes erratic, as the constructs (no spoilers) that power and guide the city go rogue. Eventually it crashes, and Hallifax and Celest find shared refuge in a mountain citadel. The remains of Hallifax drift away, a flying (weaponised) derelict full of crystalline ghosts-in-the-machine. The combined New-Hallifax brings the most beautiful gift: the perfect peace of assimilation or death.
Of course, that's generally a simplification of each org, smashed together off the top of our heads.
About the time I was elected to CL there was a mini-event where Hallifax's generators were exploding. I really thought they were deleting Hallifax just as I got the office. I was proud of them but sad.
For Mister Zvoltz, Pejat has been terminated by the Replicant Dynodeon.
Oi. Stop offering Gaudi to be blown up. Why not blow up Hallifax? It's hanging in the sky. It's just asking to be turned into a giant crashing chandelier thing.
With an exasperated sigh, you say, "One moment please, I'm threatening a muffin in a box!"
Oi. Stop offering Gaudi to be blown up. Why not blow up Hallifax? It's hanging in the sky. It's just asking to be turned into a giant crashing chandelier thing.
No blowing up Hallifax! We're actually winning things!
Phase 1: @Portius taints the Matrix, and Hallifax crashes into Magnagora, creating Magnafax. Phase 2: The Nightshades finally realize their destiny and move to Gaudiguch, becoming the Partyshades for real. Everyone else in Glom follows along for some reason. Serenwilde catches fire from this, somehow. Phase 3: Former Serens don't want to go to Celest, so they do the Tolborolla quest until Ackleberry finally just comes back in defeat. Sister Lake gets mad that Celest is still doing the water thing, and destroys the Pool of Stars.
Boom, down to three orgs. Problem solved.
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!
You have to see it from the admin's point of view, though. I reckon a couple of people are praying to their Divine asking for guidance, etc. If they don't reply, people will start saying, "Oh man, So and So isn't saying anything, He/She must be inactive. Time to jump ship!" and things like "admin's aren't being interactive enough" start to run around. The best the admin can do is stick to their respective RPs, which is the hard-line stance.
Ultimately, it's up to us, the players, to direct the player-run organizations we play in. Celest can ally with Magnagora every once in a while (it even happened with Eventru's sort-of support), Hallifax can have parties with Gaudiguch, Serenwilde and Glomdoring can save Maeve's ass. The admins just hold our hand, and slap our wrists when we go too far (like persuading an entire org to rage QQ because your plan to do a grand save of Raziela was foiled by Celina switching to Glomdoring).
You have to see it from the admin's point of view, though. I reckon a couple of people are praying to their Divine asking for guidance, etc. If they don't reply, people will start saying, "Oh man, So and So isn't saying anything, He/She must be inactive. Time to jump ship!" and things like "admin's aren't being interactive enough" start to run around. The best the admin can do is stick to their respective RPs, which is the hard-line stance.
Ultimately, it's up to us, the players, to direct the player-run organizations we play in. Celest can ally with Magnagora every once in a while (it even happened with Eventru's sort-of support), Hallifax can have parties with Gaudiguch, Serenwilde and Glomdoring can save Maeve's ass. The admins just hold our hand, and slap our wrists when we go too far (like persuading an entire org to rage QQ because your plan to do a grand save of Raziela was foiled by Celina switching to Glomdoring).
If that was true, then mag would have been a ghost town ages ago.
You have to see it from the admin's point of view, though. I reckon a couple of people are praying to their Divine asking for guidance, etc. If they don't reply, people will start saying, "Oh man, So and So isn't saying anything, He/She must be inactive. Time to jump ship!" and things like "admin's aren't being interactive enough" start to run around. The best the admin can do is stick to their respective RPs, which is the hard-line stance.
You also have to look at it from the perspective that responding to every prayer can give a player the impression that their personal roleplay is way more important to "the admin" than it actually is to whatever the overall storyline is- and other players could resent that. It can cause just as many problems to overreact as to not do anything at all. The best admin can do is the best any human being can do... try to anticipate problems and find a balance that works for everyone. And accept that there's still going to be some failures.
"Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
Guilds dissolve and introduce sects. Sects are simply copies of the current guilds, but no actual membership. Can gain honorary statuses and titles of sects of your org by doing certain quests, such as one for the ninjakari sect. Will gain certain privileges by being an honorary member of the sect, such as unique mob welcome messages, access to a certain mount, etc. Sects are purely for RP and immersion purposes.
Novice learning and requirements will be focused in the collegium, where it will teach the basics.
Seriously, either er city hierarchy or guild hierarchy need a wiping, because not only is it obvious that players are attempting to sway alliances based on influence and personal opinion, but also we just dont have the numbers to fill these spots. Either make cities glorified rp hubs with guilds being the main focus for a player, or wipe away guilds and make cities the main focus. Frankly either way, players would still hsve some influence, but it's a work in progress
Oi. Stop offering Gaudi to be blown up. Why not blow up Hallifax? It's hanging in the sky. It's just asking to be turned into a giant crashing chandelier thing.
Yes, letting players have their say is the whole point of the system.
This worked, somewhat, previously because whether or not the population larger, it was more concentrated. Then there were more guilds, then more orgs.
The last two Hartstone elections I saw had maybe five people voting in them. I've seen elections where the elected person was the only person running and also were the only person voting.
There are the guilds with inactive leaders who just aren't replaced because there's no one around to replace them. There have been leaders who were ignored because they were voted for by a "minor" guild, by the same note there have been leaders who likely would never have been leaders had they not been in such a tiny guild.
I've also been there for the joy of people not in a guild trying to find out how a GM election is running, because of how much impact it has on people outside the guild.
All of this I suppose comes back to the core... idea of a political "game". You need to have support, either by being so popular (through competence or other means) that everyone wants you as their leader, or by making enough deals that you get elected anyway.
This aspect of politics is practically absent in some areas of the game, by divorcing the council seats from the guild, it means that the entire council actually has to work at getting and retaining their seat.
If the council is chosen from the entirety of the org then you have an assurance that these people have the connections or the support to actually be effective in their positions and any change over that follows would likely be the result of unwanted leaders being kicked off the council.
Oh, also... While, the family seat is interesting. The attitude towards it is interesting considering the context of the councils in their current state.
While some dislike that the family seat is "forced on", I believe in the days of the Talnara, if you considered them a faction like guilds, their family seat would have had more support than at least one, maybe even two guild leaders, enjoyed.
Because then we have to be able to trust that no one was going around trying to have an "unofficial" alliance with just their old RP pals in various cities/communes. Which WILL happen. Better to have some mechanism to let it come to light.....
Pfft ,you first. I"m sure you can totally trust me, It's not like I have a RP mechanic just made to enable me to back stab people(actually it's not meant to do that, but that's how it's used....).
1v1v1v1v1v1 Can happen, but it simply needs the mechanics and dedication to do it.
Achaea basically became a 1vAll concept, through both events and culture enforcing. Everyone thinks themselves the best and the others are just in their way. Each org (except maybe 1 that I'd rather not mention) has a clear goal and identity to it, and even those that may have similar goals, they see as an opponent. The City of Evil and City of 'Chaos' over there could be seen from the outside as similar, especially with both wanting to see the City of Order & Light destroyed, however, they hold enmity for one another, both from cultural differences as well as events (such as necromancy being pushed out of the city of chaos).
Comments
my intention for stepping up to help revive my org and guild. (reworded to not come off wrong/aggressive, wasn't meant that way).
Of course, that's generally a simplification of each org, smashed together off the top of our heads.
Phase 2: The Nightshades finally realize their destiny and move to Gaudiguch, becoming the Partyshades for real. Everyone else in Glom follows along for some reason. Serenwilde catches fire from this, somehow.
Phase 3: Former Serens don't want to go to Celest, so they do the Tolborolla quest until Ackleberry finally just comes back in defeat. Sister Lake gets mad that Celest is still doing the water thing, and destroys the Pool of Stars.
Boom, down to three orgs. Problem solved.
Where art thou @fain
Novice learning and requirements will be focused in the collegium, where it will teach the basics.
Seriously, either er city hierarchy or guild hierarchy need a wiping, because not only is it obvious that players are attempting to sway alliances based on influence and personal opinion, but also we just dont have the numbers to fill these spots. Either make cities glorified rp hubs with guilds being the main focus for a player, or wipe away guilds and make cities the main focus. Frankly either way, players would still hsve some influence, but it's a work in progress
This worked, somewhat, previously because whether or not the population larger, it was more concentrated. Then there were more guilds, then more orgs.
The last two Hartstone elections I saw had maybe five people voting in them. I've seen elections where the elected person was the only person running and also were the only person voting.
There are the guilds with inactive leaders who just aren't replaced because there's no one around to replace them. There have been leaders who were ignored because they were voted for by a "minor" guild, by the same note there have been leaders who likely would never have been leaders had they not been in such a tiny guild.
I've also been there for the joy of people not in a guild trying to find out how a GM election is running, because of how much impact it has on people outside the guild.
All of this I suppose comes back to the core... idea of a political "game". You need to have support, either by being so popular (through competence or other means) that everyone wants you as their leader, or by making enough deals that you get elected anyway.
This aspect of politics is practically absent in some areas of the game, by divorcing the council seats from the guild, it means that the entire council actually has to work at getting and retaining their seat.
If the council is chosen from the entirety of the org then you have an assurance that these people have the connections or the support to actually be effective in their positions and any change over that follows would likely be the result of unwanted leaders being kicked off the council.
While some dislike that the family seat is "forced on", I believe in the days of the Talnara, if you considered them a faction like guilds, their family seat would have had more support than at least one, maybe even two guild leaders, enjoyed.
Why can't we just
1v1v1v1v1v1
There's mechanics for alliances?
Nah
Everyone just drop alliances
FFA this thing (not the farming acronym)
Cycles will probably still happen and everyone can kick everyone to the ground equally
Except in culture
Freaking Hallifax is untouchable witht that monster of a library
Achaea basically became a 1vAll concept, through both events and culture enforcing. Everyone thinks themselves the best and the others are just in their way. Each org (except maybe 1 that I'd rather not mention) has a clear goal and identity to it, and even those that may have similar goals, they see as an opponent. The City of Evil and City of 'Chaos' over there could be seen from the outside as similar, especially with both wanting to see the City of Order & Light destroyed, however, they hold enmity for one another, both from cultural differences as well as events (such as necromancy being pushed out of the city of chaos).