Also convenient to have been unable to use your powers twice, Krackenor. I'm not convinced of your guilt or innocence (same with Alary, I have doubts now) but I'm frowning in your general directions!
I mean...it's irritating and unfortunate, but I'd hardly call two failed attempts a convenient excuse. I was the victim of random chance when I was blocked on night 1 (something I reported the very next day, so that fact didn't come out of the blue) and on night 2, I went after who I thought was the most suspicious player. Something that you did as well, incidentally.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
You have zero evidence to suggest Tremula could only be an SK or survivor role going into last night. Her role was very much up in the air. Nor did I imply I was convinced she was mafia. I made it very clear why I targeted her in my role claim, and at no point did I say I was certain she was mafia. Even if her SK role was so clear to you (I suspect it wasn't, and you've arrived at that conclusion since the night, and I can hardly account for future events), killing an SK is still important.
Bring on the scrutiny squirrelfriend, but if this is a sign of the line of reasoning I'll be facing, it's going to be a bumpy ride.
I should say it's very possible she is an SK or a survivor. But to say that anyone is certain she is over mafia would be ridiculous. If that's the foundation, that I wasn't certain she's mafia, therefor I am guilty, I really have no argument against that. It's fundamentally absurd.
The issues with her behavior have been pointed out by several people. She needed to die, I had the ability to do that.
What I said was that you've basically claimed vanilla town, having a role with a one-shot that's used. But if you want to discuss your choice of target, then let's. I'm willing to agree that Tremula's behavior on day two was suspicious. Does anyone else here think that she raised enough suspicion on day 2 to warrant use of a one-shot vig, when that is the ONLY power the character has? Revealing a mafia member after killing a mafia member would have been pretty phenomenal. Semi-randomly killing someone on the first night we have any information to work with is pretty quick on the draw.
Can you walk me through your logic in deciding Tremula must die? As far as I can tell, it was because she 1) FOS: Ieptix for leading the charge in lynching Vivet, and 2) suggested the possibility that Vivet might be helpful to keep alive. But I'm not seeing anything from start to end of day two that convinces me hard enough of her badness to warrant using up the only ability your role was given, especially since there's even less evidence of her association with mafia.
Do you not see the issue here?
As yous aid, killing an SK is important. How in the world did you figure out she was an SK by the end of day two?
I targeted Tremula. I have a one time night sacrifice (or nightkill), which I tried to use on Tremula because I thought she was mafia and/or very dangerous with her behavior.
I'll post more when I get to a computer and can format better, but your lack of reading is not an insult, it's a factual observation of reality. You're not reading, full stop. An insult would be: "Why am I not surprised the guy who forced half the town to mass claim when we are losing can't follow simple sentences."
The two explanations of your thought process in targeting tremula are sort of contradictory though. In your role claim you say that you thought she was mafia or very dangerous, but then you say that there was zero evidence supporting the assumption that she was SK going into night two, nor were you convinced she was mafia. I'm just an ignorant Danish Prince, so I too would appreciate an explanation.
I didn't force anyone to claim. Frankly, it surprised me when everyone did, because I was considering holding the names private. In fact, I asked advice on that exact subject.
Reading comprehension would have told you that, though.
Ugh, this is why I have an attitude with out hapless watcher's reading skills. It's not a contradiction.
She is mafia or dangerous, that was been my original statement. There wasn't evidence that she was an SK, and it was in direct response to Eldanien implying he was convinced she was an SK or other third party type.
@CyndarinAscends basically claimed vanilla town, having had and used up (?) a one-shot power. Said one-shot power was meant to be used against mafia, and I'm not seeing enough reason for anyone to be convinced that Tremula was mafia (as opposed to SK or other third party type).
The factual reality is we don't have evidence (meaning verifiable, concrete items that indicate guilt) that Tremula is an SK and I rejected Eldanien's premise with this statement. We have suspicions, suspicions I voiced earlier in the game regarding her behavior (which he'd know if he read), but that is not evidence. She could just be a bad townie (aka dangerous). She could be mafia. She could be an SK (aka dangerous). I believe she's mafia, but I'm not convinced outright. It is why I left my suspicions open ended, she could be a number of things at this points. ALL OF THEM BAD.
Remember that Eldanien's initial accusation of me was based on that he was convinced Tremula was an SK or other third part type, and thus me targeting her was evidence of my guilt. My following comments about SK, the only reason I said anything about SK, was because Eldanien specifically brought it up.
Here's why I say he can't read (because he can't): Observe his last post where he quoted me out of the full context of the conversation. I said I think she is mafia (or very dangerous). Eldanien went on to argue I was guilty because he was convinced she was an SK. My following statements was directed at that comment, so at this point he's not just not reading my posts, he's not even reading his own side of the conversation that I respond to. I didn't mix up my stories, I was plainly and clearly responding to a specific point you raised. I never said that was my motivation, I said it was absurd to believe I was guilty because you think she's an SK and I didn't target mafia. How is that guilty? Like I said, killing an SK is still important.
His premise is that I am guilty because I didn't go after a guaranteed member of the mafia, and this is proof my guilt. Which is stupid on several levels. I can't anticipate the future, there could very likely never be a time when I'm certain someone is mafia AND the town hasn't killed them. What I can do is aim for obviously, universally recognized suspicious targets. Ultimately, if he wants to believe that if I don't target someone he is 100% certain is mafia, then I must be mafia myself, he's not being reasonable and there's little point in debating him. Yet that does appear to be his entire premise for pursuing me.
I'll most likely continue to have an attitude with ye ol bumbling watcher as he drives the townie bus into the ditch (seriously, mass claiming this early?), and if he or anyone wants to lynch me for an attitude, oh well. I have an attitude 95% of my life, it's a thing.
Now I'll apologize if I was unclear about some of this previously. 1) I can't edit, and 2) Eldanien's entire premise, that I have to target someone we are certain is mafia or I'm guilty, is so irrational it's difficult to argue against with rationality. So my thoughts might have come across jumbled. I don't know, I thought they were clear enough.
I didn't force anyone to claim. Frankly, it surprised me when everyone did, because I was considering holding the names private. In fact, I asked advice on that exact subject.
Reading comprehension would have told you that, though.
If you want to argue semantics about whether or not you physically forced the town to claim or revealed so much information that it put the town in a compromising position that inevitably lead to mass claiming, you're free to do so.
What did you think was going to happen? You'd reveal 5 people targeted Tremula, that you were a watcher, and people (including the mafia you just revealed a bunch of information to) would say EHH LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT IT. As soon as one person revealed, which could have been a member of the mafia, the rest would have to or risk suspicion. It's an all or nothing situation you directly caused without enough information to back it up. There's a reason mass claims only happen in the very late game.
@CyndarinAscends basically claimed vanilla town, having had and used up (?) a one-shot power. Said one-shot power was meant to be used against mafia, and I'm not seeing enough reason for anyone to be convinced that Tremula was mafia (as opposed to SK or other third party type).
As yous aid, killing an SK is important. How in the world did you figure out she was an SK by the end of day two?
Puts me in a pretty tough spot, eh? You can argue that you know she's an SK and that she's not an SK within a few posts, and if I disagree (and since you've argued both sides of the fence at this point, I'm inevitably going to do), I'm guilty.
Well, I'm going to leave it at that. For now, I'm reasonably convinced we need to vote Cyndarin tomorrow. But we're at the point we're going around in circles, and every other sentence is an insult.
Any other lines of thought we should follow, or shall we resume the lynching?
No response? No justifying your reasoning after I had to spend my time unraveling it? Can't even be bothered to explain your Shrodinger's Serial Killer situation?
To the rest of the town, I suggest reading the entire conversation. Eldanien can't defend his accusation even after I point out he's taken both sides of the "Tremula is an SK" argument he started and used that against me.
Forcing us into a mass claim, and now forcing me to defend myself against impossible situations (read: Shrodinger's Serial Killer) does nothing but force the town into having awkward conversations that inevitably look suspicious. Unfortunately, even though he's bad at being a townie, he's basically a confirmed townie so there's really no leverage to force him to justify his now clearly contradictory accusations. He can now just sit on his hands and whine about attitudes, rather than answer for his mistakes.
So that just leaves it on me, which inevitably is going to make me look more suspicious than if I had just stayed quiet.
Tremula was suspicious, something Eldanien even admits to (but doesn't want to talk about). This has been my position since my very first post. Take that how you will.
Yeah, I've read the whole conversation and you are misrepresenting his argument pretty heavily. The crux of it is that yes, tremula was acting suspiciously, but was she really acting suspiciously enough to waste a single use power?
Added to that, it is almost a certainty that you, Luce, or Maylea is a mafia killer. You're taking the brunt of the suspicion right now because you've been the loudest in proclaiming your innocence.
As for the question regarding whether Tremula was suspicious enough to warrant a nightkill.
Uhhhh, well she almost got lynched over it and the mafia can't lynch on their own, so the question appears to have already answered itself. Yes, it does appear that her behavior is questionable enough to kill.
Whether or not you can peer into the future to find that elusive night where I'll be certain of a mafia's members guilt and the town hasn't lynched them yet is not something I can account for. I'm not going to sit on a power hoping the highly unlikely happens.
If we're saying things we find suspicious, doesn't one of these investigator/watcher types gain extra information after soneone dies? Now I'm just a tiny fawn and know little of the ways of the mafia meta, but isn't that a little villainous?
Like I'm probably still going to get lynched, but someone should look into that. And to be fair, I only have a limited number of kills anyway, so I guess it's better that I die now instead of potentially getting a suspicious person tonight, since town agrees I'll likely be mafia target #1 if I don't get
The information I gain from your lynching has to do with whether or not you're town/mafia/3rd party vs who targeted you and who voted for you. It's not a special power, it's the same kind of observation anyone here can make.
Comments
Can you walk me through your logic in deciding Tremula must die? As far as I can tell, it was because she 1) FOS: Ieptix for leading the charge in lynching Vivet, and 2) suggested the possibility that Vivet might be helpful to keep alive. But I'm not seeing anything from start to end of day two that convinces me hard enough of her badness to warrant using up the only ability your role was given, especially since there's even less evidence of her association with mafia.
Do you not see the issue here?
As yous aid, killing an SK is important. How in the world did you figure out she was an SK by the end of day two?
At this point, I suspect we found our villain. Can you give us any actual argument to explain, or are you going to continue with the attitude?
Reading comprehension would have told you that, though.
Any other lines of thought we should follow, or shall we resume the lynching?
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."