@Weiwae it does fit with the universe, as it could easily be referencing any of the Scarlet family. Flandre is the one that I think of immediately, but there could be several others. It could also be...Utsuho Reiuji, but that's just pulling at characters I know. Let's hear from @Falmiis, though.
Yeah, I'm going to hold back on the voting until everyone checks in.
I'm also still confused on what's going on with these news reports if they're reporting false information, re. Weiwae/Kalaneya? Since the first related to Siam who was jailed, I'm inclined to believe Weiwae. So what are the reports? An attempt to throw suspicion on random people to force them into some sort of claim?
Well, this is certainly an interesting predicament. To those asking, no I won't be commenting on Tamashi's "ragequit" one way or another. Bluffing even after you're stumped is why I've made the stumping rules as they are. This is not why I'm posting.
I'm posting because I've been informed by others that Tamashi has been contacting others outside the game thread in order to convince them about matters within the game.
I'm generally a patient game-master. As long as you observe the spirit of the rules, I'm not gonna be bothered if you post a goofy picture during night, or accidentally speak on team-chat during the day. But actively breaking the rules is unacceptable.
Rule 4 states "You are not allowed to communicate with each other outside the thread unless your role specifically allows you to do this." Contacting others outside the game thread with the intent to convince them of certain statements, to deliver information or to otherwise influence player behaviour is a flagrant breach of this very important rule.
As I have been given proof of this behaviour, I ban @Tamashi from this game. Please immediately cease any and all posting.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Mostly just checking in, nothing happened to me last night. I'd like to hear from Cyndarin before I comment on anything. There is becoming a weird trend of people getting too real in mafia, be cool.
Been busy but I'll get that duel info posted when I'm home next. Though anybody else is free to take the list and add into it.
And I'm not inclined to believe anything of what Tamashi has been saying after death. If Cyndarin was on his team he likely wouldn't have mentioned him at all. Don't start another vote train that's going to let a hidden executor activate again.
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Checking in. Nothing happened to me last night, not sure what's up with the newspaper thing about me and Weiwae as I didn't send or receive anything from him either.
and holy shit idk guys about this Tamashi thing. Everything seems too...extreme, I guess, especially the out-of-game craziness.
To be fair don't think we should get any indication of who he contacted outside of the game, from mod or the players themselves. That would be a pretty strong indicator of who was not allied with him.
I agree with that, but I mean once he's out of the game, I figured we'd get confirmation on who he was and powers etc rather than just stump-nothing
Well, since regular lynches count as stumping, I suppose mod-lynches count as stumping, too, with the exception that they aren't allowed to post in the thread. So as usual, no flipping unless their faction conclusively loses.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Good grief. Firstly all those pings on my name had me worried everyone was challenging me or voting me or something. Sure got my attention!
Tamashi...way to throw your team under a bus, guy. I mean, being a stump means you're still part of a team and can still win with your team. Why the hell even admit that you were mafia? Would have been better if you claimed it was wrongful, because sometimes people get killed off for their posting style/appearing scummy when they're not, and I would have believed it of you. But now...I was already highly suspicious of Cyndarin and Weiwae for vocally supporting Tamashi and vocally going for the same target. My thought was they are either on the same team (scum), or one is Ratatoskr and the other is scum trying to bandwagon or something. Tamashi has only made my suspicions stronger. You tried guy, you lost, no need to wreck the game by trying to meta it. No one likes to be the first one to die!
Oh and the comment about the forced duel with Cyndarin to avoid suspicion kinda reads to me that it was deliberate to force them to duel so they didn't look like teammates. Because why would you force a teammate into a duel with you? UNLESS YOU WANTED TO BE TRICKSY.
In my mind it's done at this point, but hey, I'm interested in hearing Cyndarin's closing statement, so I'll wait to vote until she comes in. I'm still suspicious of Weiwae. I'm not convinced his powers wouldn't help mafia and his sudden reveal given Tamashi's meltdown makes me think it's motivated by self-preservation.
Sorry about the pings. I didn't mean to paste the @s. I went back to edit, then remembered I couldn't, alt tabbed to do work, forgot I had just posted, posted again, rinse repeat.
Good grief. Firstly all those pings on my name had me worried everyone was challenging me or voting me or something. Sure got my attention!
Tamashi...way to throw your team under a bus, guy. I mean, being a stump means you're still part of a team and can still win with your team. Why the hell even admit that you were mafia? Would have been better if you claimed it was wrongful, because sometimes people get killed off for their posting style/appearing scummy when they're not, and I would have believed it of you. But now...I was already highly suspicious of Cyndarin and Weiwae for vocally supporting Tamashi and vocally going for the same target. My thought was they are either on the same team (scum), or one is Ratatoskr and the other is scum trying to bandwagon or something. Tamashi has only made my suspicions stronger. You tried guy, you lost, no need to wreck the game by trying to meta it. No one likes to be the first one to die!
Oh and the comment about the forced duel with Cyndarin to avoid suspicion kinda reads to me that it was deliberate to force them to duel so they didn't look like teammates. Because why would you force a teammate into a duel with you? UNLESS YOU WANTED TO BE TRICKSY.
In my mind it's done at this point, but hey, I'm interested in hearing Cyndarin's closing statement, so I'll wait to vote until she comes in. I'm still suspicious of Weiwae. I'm not convinced his powers wouldn't help mafia and his sudden reveal given Tamashi's meltdown makes me think it's motivated by self-preservation.
You assume Tamashi wasn't bluffing again!
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Honestly - I think he was trying to bluff but did it very badly with the whole 'my team is disbanded' nonsense. We were supposed to buy that, and that there successfully makes Cyndarin innocent of being his team by default. And we know that was an obvious lie, soooo....
Basically I don't think he's that good at bluffing.
Well, I certainly also noted the way both Weiwae and Cyndarin were talking last day-- how could I not, given that I was the target of a lot of it-- so I'll be interested to see what we find out. Though that will most likely be the line, that Tamashi was poorly bluffing at throwing them under the bus.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
Oh wow. So much has been happening so quickly. I will need some time to digest all of the revelations, but in the meantime:
I think the executioner's flavour could fit with several roles, Ratatoskr included. I don't feel any great need to try to weed them out just yet, however.
@Falmiis I believe I have missed it, but what exactly leads you to believe there is an arsonist active? Did you experience something last night that felt like you were getting marked?
In regards to @Weiwae I think I can guess what their role power is and feel that they are probably okay for now, if all of my suspicions are correct.
Also, I am disinclined to think @Siam is a Taoist. If anything, I believe it is quite the contrary, and expect that Siam is none other than Byakuren Hijiri herself, and that the item related to their role powers is the Sorcerer's Sutra Scroll (or perhaps the spinning Vajra).
Odd points regarding Tamashi - if they are being honest about how their detection through danmaku works, does that mean Ileein is convertable? Or was Miko never actually able to identify Pollux, and that was all hogwash to egg us on or create greater confusion? Puzzling.
Finally! So far as I can tell, nothing happened to me last night.
And because of that, I got a day time power I'd really like to use up today, particularly since you all decided against lynching me yesterday. I want this thing gone and used up, for so long as I am town. Don't rush a lynch - if we feel certain about someone, then please allow me to try something once we get some consensus.
@Vivet could you give me some more info on Byakuren Hijiri? I'm looking at the wiki page for her, and other than some animosity with Reimu (which Kira said we all could have) I'm not seeing much to paint her as evil.
Well. The leader of the mafia professing my innocence certainly makes things awkward.
At a cursory glance, sure it looks suspicious. I get where you're coming from. You guys are being a little blindly dumb, however, and just a little critical thinking should really unravel this situation.
What I claimed was Tamashi was bad at the game, this was my stance since the very start, and we have ample evidence at this point that confirm he is indeed terrible at mafia. He did not know what he was doing. Where I went wrong is that I gave him the benefit of the doubt as I did with Rolsand, and that random power flailing/bluffs were just new player plots gone awry. My final decision on Tamashi was pretty specific, if he was mafia then he was the absolute worst bluffer I'd ever seen, which I wasn't really willing to believe due to just how ridiculous the whole situation was. APPARENTLY I WAS WRONG. He is, in fact, the worst bluffer ever.
The part that doesn't make sense is that I, however, am not a new player. I think I've demonstrated I'm reasonably capable at playing the game, including mafia roles. If I were mafia, and another mafia pulled a dumb*** bluff like that, I would not be defending them. I would have cut the rope and let the fall without me, and I would have done so quietly. I've played with most of you repeatedly, and I think in any other context, the consensus would be mafia Celina would not pull stupid stunts and dumb mafia plays on day 2 with no dead townies. Wrong sometimes, sure, but blatantly stupid? No. This whole chainsaw defense garbage is based on a belief that I am so bad at mafia that when another member practically hangs themselves, I'm going to be so obvious that they'll take me down with them. It's dumb, it makes no sense.
Incidentally, it's also a third party survival tactic to point the mafia finger at those who want to take out the third parties. Yes, I did notice.
As for his post mortem claims, IDFK. If I were a mafia stump and I could win, I wouldn't make a big deal about professing my teammates innocence in the same post where I claimed to be mafia leader. I AM THE LEADER OF THE MAFIA...DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO CELINA, SHE'S TOTES COOL is uh...a unique approach to winning. Of course, I am also making the argument that he's terrible at mafia, so this could feasibly be him just being terrible. He's kind of absurd so it's hard to unravel his actions for you other than to say "he's absurd." He hasn't demonstrated any subtlety or nuance, so I don't think it's a "try to get a townie lynched by professing their innocence" bluff. Or at least not an intentional one.
My defense amounts to "I don't know what the **** he's doing," which has been my consistent position.
You didn't know he would reveal his own role, though. As far as any of us knew, he was just going to stay quiet - there is a lot less risk in defending a lynching with no reveal deaths, as (rare exceptions like this last one excluded) we need to then find out who/what we just killed.
That said, I agree - if I were mafia with Tamashi, I'd have quietly avoided him as well.
Then again, he mentioned conversions. Maybe you didn't even know you were on his side until it kicked in during night. ^_^
@Vivet could you give me some more info on Byakuren Hijiri? I'm looking at the wiki page for her, and other than some animosity with Reimu (which Kira said we all could have) I'm not seeing much to paint her as evil.
Byakuren's biggest issue has always been her willingness to be friendly with youkai. It's what got her sealed away until UFO, after all. I can sort of see her being a mafia boss as well, though not for the sake of "evil" so much as shifting the overall world view to better fit her own, more peaceable one.
I am somewhat dubious of falling into this line of thinking, however. Our census at the start of Day 1 said there were four people conspiring to foil the restoration efforts. One was obviously Miko, and there had to be another one (possibly a convert from the prior night?), so that's two right there.
Who are the other two? Do we want to believe Miko started out entirely alone? And if Siam is Byakuren, and you are Kyouko, that makes two Buddhists right there. And if Kalaneya is not Ratatoskr, but Mamizou Futatsuiwa as I suspect, then that'd be three Buddhists. So something'd have to be up with those numbers.
Random aside, Cyndarin's one of the few people I just have no clue on the identity of. That spellcard's really baffled me!
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Celina's defense checks out, to be fair. Celina would have tossed Tamashi under the mafia bus if they were partners; she'd want to distance herself. Even I read Tamashi's posts last dayphase and assumed he was just very new to mafia and playing bad town. Playing bad mafioso can really look like playing bad town, unfortunately!
So we're in this strange situation where we'd have to guess why Tamashi would defend Celina: would it serve his purposes more if she was on his team, or not? It's a bit of a confusing muddle, honestly, and without a flip on a lynch we'll never get confirmation on why Tamashi acted like, well, Tamashi until end-game. Normally, a mafia leader upon death in a game like this would have professed townie innocence regardless in order to make the executioner look bad; it's the smarter play. So how do we react to this information, when by all rights, we shouldn't have gotten it at all?
To me, this is probably a dead line of investigation. If anything, I wonder if maybe Celina's relentless pushing on Ileein is more indicative of a...rodent-like influence? Her pushing to off a third party is definitely a very real and viable town strategy, but it'd be most convenient for the Ratatoskr character that Ileein is pursuing, wouldn't it? Especially if Vivet doesn't recognize Celina's spellcards; the reason could be that they're from a non-Touhou character. Dun dun dun!
(Conspiracy theories are fun, no wonder @Ushaara enjoys them so much.)
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Oh yeah, other aside: who were the ones that said they gained something from winning spellcard duels? It was Ssaliss and Luce, right? Alice and Mokou, hmm...
I'd be more than happy to demonstrate, Ssaliss can start when we're ready to roll. Or Ushaara can confirm it's not exactly a nuke. That's my third spellcard.
Yes, I could be Ratgod. No use in denying the possibility since he remains unknown. All I can say is I'm not, and I know how to play and not be that obvious.
That being said, I'm going to double down on Ileein. Does this make me more guilty or less guilty of being ratgod? I don't know, that's for you guys to decide I suppose. However, my point against Ileein has been I do not believe he is being honest with the town. I think he's either bluffing how benign he is or hiding some aspect of his role. I've outlined his previous half/non truths in other posts.
What makes me want to double down is his action last night. He's supposed to be searching for Ratgod OR playing the part of pro town hero as he claims, and he investigated Synkarin. Why? He was super confirming Synkarin was Cirno, something Icicle fall already revealed. The role everyone knew from day 1. Synkarin even power claimed already. The town had virtually nothing to gain from that investigation.
I'm not voting, because last night and voting trends have not been thoroughly vetted yet. That being said, Yarith and Ileein both took after me, even Ileein trying to pre-empt my alibi (incorrectly) the moment that lynch train started. But as I've outlined, my defense is pretty basic, and me trying to save Tamagotchi from his death spiral doesn't withstand any real scrutiny. To me this proves me whole point, third parties are dangerous to town and we should gank them if there are not better leads. Giving third parties leeway for poor judgement compounds the existing problem that they aren't here for the town in the first place.
So, not vote for now, but something to think about.
Checking in! I just got home and there's a LOT to process, but I do want to stress (restress?) the fact that Tamashi was merely stumped, not flipped. Not only does this mean that his faction is still alive, but also that they have a feasible path to victory. I'll have more when I'm not falling asleep at the keyboard.
Comments
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
I'm also still confused on what's going on with these news reports if they're reporting false information, re. Weiwae/Kalaneya? Since the first related to Siam who was jailed, I'm inclined to believe Weiwae. So what are the reports? An attempt to throw suspicion on random people to force them into some sort of claim?
I'm posting because I've been informed by others that Tamashi has been contacting others outside the game thread in order to convince them about matters within the game.
I'm generally a patient game-master. As long as you observe the spirit of the rules, I'm not gonna be bothered if you post a goofy picture during night, or accidentally speak on team-chat during the day. But actively breaking the rules is unacceptable.
Rule 4 states "You are not allowed to communicate with each other outside the thread unless your role specifically allows you to do this." Contacting others outside the game thread with the intent to convince them of certain statements, to deliver information or to otherwise influence player behaviour is a flagrant breach of this very important rule.
As I have been given proof of this behaviour, I ban @Tamashi from this game. Please immediately cease any and all posting.
And I'm not inclined to believe anything of what Tamashi has been saying after death. If Cyndarin was on his team he likely wouldn't have mentioned him at all. Don't start another vote train that's going to let a hidden executor activate again.
and holy shit idk guys about this Tamashi thing. Everything seems too...extreme, I guess, especially the out-of-game craziness.
Tamashi...way to throw your team under a bus, guy. I mean, being a stump means you're still part of a team and can still win with your team. Why the hell even admit that you were mafia? Would have been better if you claimed it was wrongful, because sometimes people get killed off for their posting style/appearing scummy when they're not, and I would have believed it of you. But now...I was already highly suspicious of Cyndarin and Weiwae for vocally supporting Tamashi and vocally going for the same target. My thought was they are either on the same team (scum), or one is Ratatoskr and the other is scum trying to bandwagon or something. Tamashi has only made my suspicions stronger. You tried guy, you lost, no need to wreck the game by trying to meta it. No one likes to be the first one to die!
Oh and the comment about the forced duel with Cyndarin to avoid suspicion kinda reads to me that it was deliberate to force them to duel so they didn't look like teammates. Because why would you force a teammate into a duel with you? UNLESS YOU WANTED TO BE TRICKSY.
In my mind it's done at this point, but hey, I'm interested in hearing Cyndarin's closing statement, so I'll wait to vote until she comes in. I'm still suspicious of Weiwae. I'm not convinced his powers wouldn't help mafia and his sudden reveal given Tamashi's meltdown makes me think it's motivated by self-preservation.
Basically I don't think he's that good at bluffing.
I think the executioner's flavour could fit with several roles, Ratatoskr included. I don't feel any great need to try to weed them out just yet, however.
@Falmiis I believe I have missed it, but what exactly leads you to believe there is an arsonist active? Did you experience something last night that felt like you were getting marked?
In regards to @Weiwae I think I can guess what their role power is and feel that they are probably okay for now, if all of my suspicions are correct.
Also, I am disinclined to think @Siam is a Taoist. If anything, I believe it is quite the contrary, and expect that Siam is none other than Byakuren Hijiri herself, and that the item related to their role powers is the Sorcerer's Sutra Scroll (or perhaps the spinning Vajra).
Odd points regarding Tamashi - if they are being honest about how their detection through danmaku works, does that mean Ileein is convertable? Or was Miko never actually able to identify Pollux, and that was all hogwash to egg us on or create greater confusion? Puzzling.
Finally! So far as I can tell, nothing happened to me last night.
And because of that, I got a day time power I'd really like to use up today, particularly since you all decided against lynching me yesterday. I want this thing gone and used up, for so long as I am town. Don't rush a lynch - if we feel certain about someone, then please allow me to try something once we get some consensus.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
At a cursory glance, sure it looks suspicious. I get where you're coming from. You guys are being a little blindly dumb, however, and just a little critical thinking should really unravel this situation.
What I claimed was Tamashi was bad at the game, this was my stance since the very start, and we have ample evidence at this point that confirm he is indeed terrible at mafia. He did not know what he was doing. Where I went wrong is that I gave him the benefit of the doubt as I did with Rolsand, and that random power flailing/bluffs were just new player plots gone awry. My final decision on Tamashi was pretty specific, if he was mafia then he was the absolute worst bluffer I'd ever seen, which I wasn't really willing to believe due to just how ridiculous the whole situation was. APPARENTLY I WAS WRONG. He is, in fact, the worst bluffer ever.
The part that doesn't make sense is that I, however, am not a new player. I think I've demonstrated I'm reasonably capable at playing the game, including mafia roles. If I were mafia, and another mafia pulled a dumb*** bluff like that, I would not be defending them. I would have cut the rope and let the fall without me, and I would have done so quietly. I've played with most of you repeatedly, and I think in any other context, the consensus would be mafia Celina would not pull stupid stunts and dumb mafia plays on day 2 with no dead townies. Wrong sometimes, sure, but blatantly stupid? No. This whole chainsaw defense garbage is based on a belief that I am so bad at mafia that when another member practically hangs themselves, I'm going to be so obvious that they'll take me down with them. It's dumb, it makes no sense.
Incidentally, it's also a third party survival tactic to point the mafia finger at those who want to take out the third parties. Yes, I did notice.
As for his post mortem claims, IDFK. If I were a mafia stump and I could win, I wouldn't make a big deal about professing my teammates innocence in the same post where I claimed to be mafia leader. I AM THE LEADER OF THE MAFIA...DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO CELINA, SHE'S TOTES COOL is uh...a unique approach to winning. Of course, I am also making the argument that he's terrible at mafia, so this could feasibly be him just being terrible. He's kind of absurd so it's hard to unravel his actions for you other than to say "he's absurd." He hasn't demonstrated any subtlety or nuance, so I don't think it's a "try to get a townie lynched by professing their innocence" bluff. Or at least not an intentional one.
My defense amounts to "I don't know what the **** he's doing," which has been my consistent position.
That said, I agree - if I were mafia with Tamashi, I'd have quietly avoided him as well.
Then again, he mentioned conversions. Maybe you didn't even know you were on his side until it kicked in during night. ^_^
I am somewhat dubious of falling into this line of thinking, however. Our census at the start of Day 1 said there were four people conspiring to foil the restoration efforts. One was obviously Miko, and there had to be another one (possibly a convert from the prior night?), so that's two right there.
Who are the other two? Do we want to believe Miko started out entirely alone? And if Siam is Byakuren, and you are Kyouko, that makes two Buddhists right there. And if Kalaneya is not Ratatoskr, but Mamizou Futatsuiwa as I suspect, then that'd be three Buddhists. So something'd have to be up with those numbers.
Random aside, Cyndarin's one of the few people I just have no clue on the identity of. That spellcard's really baffled me!
So we're in this strange situation where we'd have to guess why Tamashi would defend Celina: would it serve his purposes more if she was on his team, or not? It's a bit of a confusing muddle, honestly, and without a flip on a lynch we'll never get confirmation on why Tamashi acted like, well, Tamashi until end-game. Normally, a mafia leader upon death in a game like this would have professed townie innocence regardless in order to make the executioner look bad; it's the smarter play. So how do we react to this information, when by all rights, we shouldn't have gotten it at all?
To me, this is probably a dead line of investigation. If anything, I wonder if maybe Celina's relentless pushing on Ileein is more indicative of a...rodent-like influence? Her pushing to off a third party is definitely a very real and viable town strategy, but it'd be most convenient for the Ratatoskr character that Ileein is pursuing, wouldn't it? Especially if Vivet doesn't recognize Celina's spellcards; the reason could be that they're from a non-Touhou character. Dun dun dun!
(Conspiracy theories are fun, no wonder @Ushaara enjoys them so much.)
These duels all happened on day one. He neither challenged or was challenged on day zero.
That being said, I'm going to double down on Ileein. Does this make me more guilty or less guilty of being ratgod? I don't know, that's for you guys to decide I suppose. However, my point against Ileein has been I do not believe he is being honest with the town. I think he's either bluffing how benign he is or hiding some aspect of his role. I've outlined his previous half/non truths in other posts.
What makes me want to double down is his action last night. He's supposed to be searching for Ratgod OR playing the part of pro town hero as he claims, and he investigated Synkarin. Why? He was super confirming Synkarin was Cirno, something Icicle fall already revealed. The role everyone knew from day 1. Synkarin even power claimed already. The town had virtually nothing to gain from that investigation.
I'm not voting, because last night and voting trends have not been thoroughly vetted yet. That being said, Yarith and Ileein both took after me, even Ileein trying to pre-empt my alibi (incorrectly) the moment that lynch train started. But as I've outlined, my defense is pretty basic, and me trying to save Tamagotchi from his death spiral doesn't withstand any real scrutiny. To me this proves me whole point, third parties are dangerous to town and we should gank them if there are not better leads. Giving third parties leeway for poor judgement compounds the existing problem that they aren't here for the town in the first place.
So, not vote for now, but something to think about.