I'm still being indecisive, but a thing on Luce and masons:
People within a mason group can be different alignments unless the mod specifically says otherwise. I think that mixed alignments are less likely than normal in light of our theme, and lower with a 2-person group than a bigger one, but it's still possible. So while mason groups can indicate better than average odds of town, they don't confirm it.
With that in mind: I still think an Ushaara lynch is better than no lynch, but I'm also pretty sure it's not going to happen today and I don't know if it's the best choice. I'm tentatively open to a Weiae lynch, but I haven't worked through everything. Probably because my time is limited and more stuff that I need to work through is constantly appearing. I'll probably join a train on him if it's necessary to get a lynch, because lynch is better than no lynch at this stage, but I'm not confident in that decision and reserve the right to change my mind.
Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
Weiwae has is getting defensive so I doubt anything productive will come of further discussion. I think it's been made pretty clear to you, Weiwae, several of the specific reasons and specific things you have said (such as your repeated misrepresentation of Sylandra), that have aroused suspicion. Acting like specific arguments were not made against you, specifically surrounding your argument with Sylandra, is not helping your case. No, they are not phantoms. They aren't concrete either, certainly, but it's mafia.
Your defenses are just haywire to me, and every time I want to back off of you, you do it again. Like the Falmiis defense. Falmiis didn't know who you are, he was part of the town. Him agreeing with you really doesn't mean a whole lot. Yes, mafia can (and should) behave as town, so behaving as town is not, in itself, any sort of defense. That's not an accusation of your guilt either, but your defense either demonstrates you don't know how mafia works, or you're getting really defensive to the point of not making sense.
Let me explain the investigator argument. Generally investigators can be trusted, but they are not foolproof. The default stance is to trust what they find unless we have a reason to believe they are wrong. An example of a reason to doubt them would be someone saying "investigate me!" because that person will know if their power can fool investigators, while the investigator will not.
There are a few other things in that post that are strange to me, but I won't dig into it line by line. My vote will stay where it is. I'm not really sure what else to do with you.
Known Aliases: Celina/Cyndarin/Fire Jesus/The Night/That Bitch who griefed us
Let me explain the investigator argument. Generally investigators can be trusted, but they are not foolproof. The default stance is to trust what they find unless we have a reason to believe they are wrong. An example of a reason to doubt them would be someone saying "investigate me!" because that person will know if their power can fool investigators, while the investigator will not.
You do realize we both said on day one, I think page two or three, that the investigator could investigate us, right?
I'm town, I'm pretty sure you are too, but I'm just making sure you know you're making us look suspicious.
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Let me explain the investigator argument. Generally investigators can be trusted, but they are not foolproof. The default stance is to trust what they find unless we have a reason to believe they are wrong. An example of a reason to doubt them would be someone saying "investigate me!" because that person will know if their power can fool investigators, while the investigator will not.
You do realize we both said on day one, I think page two or three, that the investigator could investigate us, right?
I'm town, I'm pretty sure you are too, but I'm just making sure you know you're making us look suspicious.
It doesn't mean much in a world where investigative immunity exists, or you could be bluffing. It's less that it makes you look suspicious, and more that it's simply a flimsy defense.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
There's a number of reasons somebody may bait an investigator to check them out, not least of which is to appear trustworthy to the town. Also, investigation immunity in the form of false identity is a thing.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
Let me explain the investigator argument. Generally investigators can be trusted, but they are not foolproof. The default stance is to trust what they find unless we have a reason to believe they are wrong. An example of a reason to doubt them would be someone saying "investigate me!" because that person will know if their power can fool investigators, while the investigator will not.
You do realize we both said on day one, I think page two or three, that the investigator could investigate us, right?
I'm town, I'm pretty sure you are too, but I'm just making sure you know you're making us look suspicious.
We agreed with each other Selenity, that proves we are mafia! Fyler started the vote on me just to create distance, obviously.
I'm still being indecisive, but a thing on Luce and masons:
People within a mason group can be different alignments unless the mod specifically says otherwise. I think that mixed alignments are less likely than normal in light of our theme, and lower with a 2-person group than a bigger one, but it's still possible. So while mason groups can indicate better than average odds of town, they don't confirm it.
With that in mind: I still think an Ushaara lynch is better than no lynch, but I'm also pretty sure it's not going to happen today and I don't know if it's the best choice. I'm tentatively open to a Weiae lynch, but I haven't worked through everything. Probably because my time is limited and more stuff that I need to work through is constantly appearing. I'll probably join a train on him if it's necessary to get a lynch, because lynch is better than no lynch at this stage, but I'm not confident in that decision and reserve the right to change my mind.
I want to add to this that I still would be willing to vote @Ushaara for every reason I outlined earlier for that train.
However I don't see enough interest in lynching Ushaara anymore to feel confident it will get off the ground. Weiwae I'm voting more for questionable play-style, Ushaara I voted to get some idea of thematic game-structure. Comparing the two, Ushaara is the more useful lynch. A lot of people think he's a red herring though and want him left alone.
To which I want to add, wanting information from a lynch isn't inherently evil. It's actually pro-town! Day 2 the odds for mislynch are higher than any other day, except for Day 1. This is because Night 1, people are mostly taking shots in the dark with their powers, and are less likely to strike gold. This isn't really awful, though, because a mislynch on Day 2 still leaves us with information, and the game's odds are still in town's favor. The only thing that we don't learn from is a no lynch.
Without a lynch, we don't know whose claims to trust or believe right now. Mafia, however, have a much better idea of that than we do, as they know who is teh evilz Soulless in the group.
I will point out that if we had just lynched Ushaara when that train was hot, a lot less people would have claimed things today! It's a little frustrating how much Day 2 threw into the open on the heels of the doctor being outed Day 1. One reason we didn't complete that train is that Weiwae threw himself in front of it aggressively defending him and attacking anyone who might be in favor of that train. If that hadn't happened, potential masons wouldn't have been revealed, and I wouldn't have had to partial-claim my power. Mafia must be rubbing their hands together with glee.
@Fyler's post basically sums up my current feelings on where my vote stands. Part of me wanted to back off when Luce made his post, but my gut says this is long term a good lynch train. If only because the dayphase will revolve less around Weiwae's circular arguments, which I cannot lie to you, I am really tired of. It is exhausting to defend yourself to someone who doesn't respond to the points you make, and who hyperbolizes them. I didn't choose the @Weiwae train, the Weiwae chain aggressively wore me down and chose me.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
The way you flip lets us figure out if Luce is bluffing or not. If Luce is an investigator then it will help us confirm this. If not then we will have most likely sussed out two scum.
If @Weiwae gets lynched and is town, we have likely confirmed that @Luce is town. Perhaps me as well, given my pushing that I believe Weiwae is town. We then have @Sylandra and @Breandryn looking suspicious and perhaps be the ones who should be voted.
If Weiwae gets lynched and is a converted third party, Luce may look suspicious because he might be third party. Given my pushing that I believe Weiwae is town, I will probably also look suspicious. Sylandra and Breandryn will seem indifferent.
If Weiwae gets lynched and is mafia/Soulless, we have likely confirmed that Luce is mafia/Soulless or an unreliable investigator. I will also look suspicious. Sylandra and Breandryn will look town.
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Okay. But if Weiwae flips town, let's not pretend that Weiwae's behavior didn't directly lead to me voting for him. You can't point your finger aggressively at someone for 48 hours and act shocked when their finger starts pointing back at you. This is a sanity vote as much as anything else. I was originally #TeamLynchUshaara.
But if Weiwae flips town, I do have a few names in my backpocket I want to examine. And if he turns up as a mason Trillillial, that more or less confirms @Luce is town for the reasons @Portius stated.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Okay. But if Weiwae flips town, let's not pretend that Weiwae's behavior didn't directly lead to me voting for him. You can't point your finger aggressively at someone for 48 hours and act shocked when their finger starts pointing back at you. This is a sanity vote as much as anything else. I was originally #TeamLynchUshaara.
But if Weiwae flips town, I do have a few names in my backpocket I want to examine. And if he turns up as a mason Trillillial, that more or less confirms @Luce is town for the reasons @Portius stated.
Sylandra, we are both going down with our ships, one way or another. If Weiwae is a baddie I accept everyone will be out to kill me for thinking he wasn't. If he isn't a baddie, I will be on you very aggressively, sanity vote or not.
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Okay. But if Weiwae flips town, let's not pretend that Weiwae's behavior didn't directly lead to me voting for him. You can't point your finger aggressively at someone for 48 hours and act shocked when their finger starts pointing back at you. This is a sanity vote as much as anything else. I was originally #TeamLynchUshaara.
But if Weiwae flips town, I do have a few names in my backpocket I want to examine. And if he turns up as a mason Trillillial, that more or less confirms @Luce is town for the reasons @Portius stated.
Sylandra, we are both going down with our ships, one way or another. If Weiwae is a baddie I accept everyone will be out to kill me for thinking he wasn't. If he isn't a baddie, I will be on you very aggressively, sanity vote or not.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Okay. But if Weiwae flips town, let's not pretend that Weiwae's behavior didn't directly lead to me voting for him. You can't point your finger aggressively at someone for 48 hours and act shocked when their finger starts pointing back at you. This is a sanity vote as much as anything else. I was originally #TeamLynchUshaara.
But if Weiwae flips town, I do have a few names in my backpocket I want to examine. And if he turns up as a mason Trillillial, that more or less confirms @Luce is town for the reasons @Portius stated.
Sylandra, we are both going down with our ships, one way or another. If Weiwae is a baddie I accept everyone will be out to kill me for thinking he wasn't. If he isn't a baddie, I will be on you very aggressively, sanity vote or not.
So, you guys are simultaneously not convinced by me saying this is going to be a huge mistake, and that I have information you don't that makes this a huge mistake, and revealing that information is an even bigger mistake. And you want us to believe that I for some reason have abandoned my ruthless 'don't bounce when the bus hits you' strategy I've used every time I was successfully scum in order to put my neck on the coping block on day 2, and that out of everybody in the pile today the one person being vouched for by a power claim and not an observation of playstyle is the most suspect?
So, you guys are simultaneously not convinced by me saying this is going to be a huge mistake, and that I have information you don't that makes this a huge mistake, and revealing that information is an even bigger mistake. And you want us to believe that I for some reason have abandoned my ruthless 'don't bounce when the bus hits you' strategy I've used every time I was successfully scum in order to put my neck on the coping block on day 2, and that out of everybody in the pile today the one person being vouched for by a power claim and not an observation of playstyle is the most suspect?
Do I have that reasoning down?
It's not clear what it is you're defending Weiwae with. Mason? Investigator? Idk. Either way, his circular posting style is something I think town is better off without.
Also, I kind of wish you'd said this before it was the very last day and a half of Day 2, @Luce. To be real with you, I think if we abandon this train nothing else will grow fast enough to secure a lynch.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I've been saying since the train started that he's a mislynch, and I'm not revealing more information because I already subtexted up down and sideways how big a mistake it is. Coming out bluntly is an 11th hour plea to back off because it's a hill worth doing on and I want it perfectly understood that anyone pushing hard on this train is either scum or making a colossal mistake, so that scum can't weasel out of it when the finger gets pointed.
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Well the only other time you defended him you basically said "he's too loud to be scum" and mis-attributed something I said as something Weiwae said, to defend his play style.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
@Luce Then should be go back to Ushaara? Consensus there seems to be that Ushaara is town but we'd be getting some info from it. How is this different? I'm voting for Weiwae because I don't trust your claim and lynching Weiwae is the best way to confirm it.
Do we want to go with Ushaara or Breandryn? Those are the only two options we have at this point that have a prayer of reaching 11.
Personally I'm for Breandryn.
If we lynch Ushaara, we find out if Ushaara was part of the Soulless, a cult, or town. If he was town, we don't know if there's a cult or not for sure.
If we lynch Breandryn, we find out if Breandryn was part of the Soulless, a cult, or town. If she was town, we don't know if there's a cult or not for sure; if she was town, we can be fairly certain Sylandra is town as Sylandra came to stand up for Breandryn pretty quickly; if she isn't... well, things don't look good for Sylandra.
Essentially, we don't get much from either, but in my opinion, we get a little more from Breandryn.
0
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Do we want to go with Ushaara or Breandryn? Those are the only two options we have at this point that have a prayer of reaching 11.
Yeah. I'd definitely prefer Ushaara over Weiwae, and Weiwae over Breandryn, but I will jump on any of these if it's between a no lynch and a lynch. Someone's gotta go.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
On mobile, so sorry for quoting, since last count there has been: Celina vote, Lavi vote then unvote, Brea unvote.
That should be it then -^
People within a mason group can be different alignments unless the mod specifically says otherwise. I think that mixed alignments are less likely than normal in light of our theme, and lower with a 2-person group than a bigger one, but it's still possible. So while mason groups can indicate better than average odds of town, they don't confirm it.
With that in mind: I still think an Ushaara lynch is better than no lynch, but I'm also pretty sure it's not going to happen today and I don't know if it's the best choice. I'm tentatively open to a Weiae lynch, but I haven't worked through everything. Probably because my time is limited and more stuff that I need to work through is constantly appearing. I'll probably join a train on him if it's necessary to get a lynch, because lynch is better than no lynch at this stage, but I'm not confident in that decision and reserve the right to change my mind.
Your defenses are just haywire to me, and every time I want to back off of you, you do it again. Like the Falmiis defense. Falmiis didn't know who you are, he was part of the town. Him agreeing with you really doesn't mean a whole lot. Yes, mafia can (and should) behave as town, so behaving as town is not, in itself, any sort of defense. That's not an accusation of your guilt either, but your defense either demonstrates you don't know how mafia works, or you're getting really defensive to the point of not making sense.
Let me explain the investigator argument. Generally investigators can be trusted, but they are not foolproof. The default stance is to trust what they find unless we have a reason to believe they are wrong. An example of a reason to doubt them would be someone saying "investigate me!" because that person will know if their power can fool investigators, while the investigator will not.
There are a few other things in that post that are strange to me, but I won't dig into it line by line. My vote will stay where it is. I'm not really sure what else to do with you.
I'm town, I'm pretty sure you are too, but I'm just making sure you know you're making us look suspicious.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
However I don't see enough interest in lynching Ushaara anymore to feel confident it will get off the ground. Weiwae I'm voting more for questionable play-style, Ushaara I voted to get some idea of thematic game-structure. Comparing the two, Ushaara is the more useful lynch. A lot of people think he's a red herring though and want him left alone.
To which I want to add, wanting information from a lynch isn't inherently evil. It's actually pro-town! Day 2 the odds for mislynch are higher than any other day, except for Day 1. This is because Night 1, people are mostly taking shots in the dark with their powers, and are less likely to strike gold. This isn't really awful, though, because a mislynch on Day 2 still leaves us with information, and the game's odds are still in town's favor. The only thing that we don't learn from is a no lynch.
Without a lynch, we don't know whose claims to trust or believe right now. Mafia, however, have a much better idea of that than we do, as they know who is teh evilz Soulless in the group.
I will point out that if we had just lynched Ushaara when that train was hot, a lot less people would have claimed things today! It's a little frustrating how much Day 2 threw into the open on the heels of the doctor being outed Day 1. One reason we didn't complete that train is that Weiwae threw himself in front of it aggressively defending him and attacking anyone who might be in favor of that train. If that hadn't happened, potential masons wouldn't have been revealed, and I wouldn't have had to partial-claim my power. Mafia must be rubbing their hands together with glee.
@Fyler's post basically sums up my current feelings on where my vote stands. Part of me wanted to back off when Luce made his post, but my gut says this is long term a good lynch train. If only because the dayphase will revolve less around Weiwae's circular arguments, which I cannot lie to you, I am really tired of. It is exhausting to defend yourself to someone who doesn't respond to the points you make, and who hyperbolizes them. I didn't choose the @Weiwae train, the Weiwae chain aggressively wore me down and chose me.
The way you flip lets us figure out if Luce is bluffing or not. If Luce is an investigator then it will help us confirm this. If not then we will have most likely sussed out two scum.
I am still betting that @Weiwae is town.
But if Weiwae flips town, I do have a few names in my backpocket I want to examine. And if he turns up as a mason Trillillial, that more or less confirms @Luce is town for the reasons @Portius stated.
Do I have that reasoning down?
Also, I kind of wish you'd said this before it was the very last day and a half of Day 2, @Luce. To be real with you, I think if we abandon this train nothing else will grow fast enough to secure a lynch.
100% believe a mislynch is better than no lynch.
Those aren't as compelling reasons.
Do we want to go with Ushaara or Breandryn? Those are the only two options we have at this point that have a prayer of reaching 11.
Essentially, we don't get much from either, but in my opinion, we get a little more from Breandryn.