Admin enforced alliances are a bit like pity sex. After a while you start to realise its just not the same
I gave ample time for this post to be addressed. I will address it myself. If admin enforced alliances are a bit like pity sex then Glom/Celest/Gaudi is straight prostitution.
Admin enforced alliances are a bit like pity sex. After a while you start to realise its just not the same
I gave ample time for this post to be addressed. I will address it myself. If admin enforced alliances are a bit like pity sex then Glom/Celest/Gaudi is straight prostitution.
We've basically divided the basin into a pro-taint and an anti-taint alliance atm,
Admin enforced alliances are a bit like pity sex. After a while you start to realise its just not the same
I gave ample time for this post to be addressed. I will address it myself. If admin enforced alliances are a bit like pity sex then Glom/Celest/Gaudi is straight prostitution.
We've basically divided the basin into a pro-taint and an anti-taint alliance atm,
Yea no need to go into the roleplay aspects of it but theres plenty of roleplay lore to make it look like the wyrd is different to the taint. You can argue it both ways pretty convincely IC though for sure. So atm basically celest is convinced by the Wyrd isn't taint arguement.
The biggest roleplay hurdle in the alliances atm is Serenwilde and Mag really. It's hard to be pro-taint as a Seren and Mag doesn't have the same thing as glom rp wise being able to argue that mag isn't tainted because they state it clearly and loudly that they are.
I know thats a super simple version of whats happened but just to bring you up to speed.
Alliances in general overlook the things they hate about each other. Glom and Celest have never made sense to me RP wise, for example. Gaudi came up with the fae-twisting thing too, right? It's not pro-taint and anti-taint. It's this group of people getting along vs that group also getting along.
Alliances in general overlook the things they hate about each other. Glom and Celest have never made sense to me RP wise, for example. Gaudi came up with the fae-twisting thing too, right? It's not pro-taint and anti-taint. It's this group of people getting along vs that group also getting along.
Oh yea every org has a conflict mechanics against pretty much every other org.
An alliance is an
agreement to help each other out and fight for each others benefit at
its basic level. Roleplay wise you can ally with your polar opposites
I suppose but its going to be a rocky ride. (Even enemies can come to
agreements. Stalin and Hilter had a fair few agreements and mutually
beneficial treaties)
For more long term
lasting alliances though there has to be some common ground they can
all roughly agree on. The Celest glom one is based on a mutual hatred of the tain for example.
Edit: Since all my posts have been deleted, despite not attacking individuals, this needs to be edited too. Back to clean slate, but I saved the messages in case anybody wants them.
I am 100% percent sure that if I made some Glomdoring alt, I'd be able to get along with everyone (yes, everyone). These weird accusations that we would never, ever be able to play with each other is just very unhelpful. It's weird how so much baggage falls away if you A. assume another name with less history and B. act differently enough that people don't know it's you.
We could all stand to act a little differently in this time of crisis.
I am 100% percent sure that if I made some Glomdoring alt, I'd be able to get along with everyone (yes, everyone). These weird accusations that we would never, ever be able to play with each other is just very unhelpful. It's weird how so much baggage falls away if you A. assume another name with less history and B. act differently enough that people don't know it's you.
We could all stand to act a little differently in this time of crisis.
This (bolded), right here is the problem. If you have to pretend that you aren't player X in order for people to give character Y a shot, then the fourth wall has disappeared. Don't get me wrong, if player X is an asshole then nobody should be forced to play with them but if they aren't being an asshole then that, not whether you know they're player X, should be the basis upon which the characters interact.
You're essentially saying that you could fake not being you well enough OOCly to get under the radar. I'm saying "Good on you, neighbour, but there are others who can't, and neither of you should have to."
I am 100% percent sure that if I made some Glomdoring alt, I'd be able to get along with everyone (yes, everyone). These weird accusations that we would never, ever be able to play with each other is just very unhelpful. It's weird how so much baggage falls away if you A. assume another name with less history and B. act differently enough that people don't know it's you.
We could all stand to act a little differently in this time of crisis.
This (bolded), right here is the problem. If you have to pretend that you aren't player X in order for people to give character Y a shot, then the fourth wall has disappeared. Don't get me wrong, if player X is an asshole then nobody should be forced to play with them but if they aren't being an asshole then that, not whether you know they're player X, should be the basis upon which the characters interact.
You're essentially saying that you could fake not being you well enough OOCly to get under the radar. I'm saying "Good on you, neighbour, but there are others who can't, and neither of you should have to."
Yes, the definition of ROLEPLAY is taking on another individual separate of yourself. The bolded part is him saying "Don't RP the exact same character." It's not about what any player can do. Sidenote, on the last little snippet of yours, that has little to do with it. You're not ROLEPLAYING if you're just playing as yourself. This is why separation of IC and OOC is so important, and so very very lost on the masses. Conversations here stir up things in game, and people blather about it like it happened IC.
So, I went to bed shortly after my post, thinking I had taken care of it, but it certainly spiraled out of hand again.
I've just deleted a whole lot of posts that are again off-topic.
Here's the thing, I'm seeing some players recently (like Rancoura and Maligorn in this thread) who are making earnest efforts to move forward. Making efforts to really talk about things, move forward in good faith and try to do what's best for the game. (Kudos to you, thank you for that).
I'm also seeing some players that just continue to hold grudges, continue to make accusations, and continue to move down this path of division. I understand the reasoning for this. I understand that insults were flung around, I understand that aggressiveness was thrown around and I'm not trying to invalidate those feelings or say that you need to forget them.
What I'm saying is that we need more empathy and more understanding. We need to stop looking at things from our own perspectives and start looking through other people's shoes. You can't sit here and bully people under the guise of 'telling it like it is' then proceed to complain about being bullied. You can't sit here and talk down to people, belittle them, ignore what they're saying and then claim that you're only trying to help. You can't sit here and hold grudges against things people did then expect them to let their grudges against you go.
I'm not talking about any single one person here, I'm talking about individuals on both sides of this divide, that undertake these same behaviors. If you're finding yourself offended by it, then you're probably one of them. If you're thinking that I am referring to someone else that isn't on your side, then you should take a good look at your own side and see who I can be referring to there.
Being 100% honest, I've certainly played a role in this divide as a player. I've been on the 'git gud' 'just put more effort in' train before, so I'm not coming from a pedestal or some moral high ground. I'm coming to you from someone who has been on these frontlines and has realized that the war we're fighting has no end unless we make it end. Getting some distance has given me a different perspective, realize where my own faults lie and has allowed me to move forward. It's allowed me to see both sides of the argument from a new light and with new understanding. Both sides are guilty of doing things they shouldn't have done. Both sides are guilty of holding grudges and not letting things go. Both sides are guilty of working in bad faith. Both sides are guilty.
So, I went to bed shortly after my post, thinking I had taken care of it, but it certainly spiraled out of hand again.
I've just deleted a whole lot of posts that are again off-topic.
I think you missed a bunch.
Seems they got cleaned afterwards, probably took a while to type that post.
Unrelated to the quote(s), making people hold back and jar up their frustrations does more damage than good. That is usually the first step of any therapy, letting the people get it all out of their systems so that they can progress. Rules aren't being broken, and quite honestly silencing either side and deleting posts only builds the frustration than helps to deflate it. If you'd like, we can try a few avenues to achieve this, some with or without supervision. This is not a threat, not a stick-up, whatever, this is purely to get all the anger out:
1) We make a thread dedicated to venting the frustrations and can honestly post what is on the mind without moderation. 2) We make a discord and invite the people that seem to have this baggage to vent. 3) We continue to follow this exact setup and nothing fixes.
We're already accused, daily even, of option 2 and a refusal to attend anything that would make someone feel bad, so that's out. And option 3 clearly isn't working, as we're taking time away from you to clean up forum posts that truthfully aren't that horrible.
I am 100% percent sure that if I made some Glomdoring alt, I'd be able to get along with everyone (yes, everyone). These weird accusations that we would never, ever be able to play with each other is just very unhelpful. It's weird how so much baggage falls away if you A. assume another name with less history and B. act differently enough that people don't know it's you.
We could all stand to act a little differently in this time of crisis.
This (bolded), right here is the problem. If you have to pretend that you aren't player X in order for people to give character Y a shot, then the fourth wall has disappeared. Don't get me wrong, if player X is an asshole then nobody should be forced to play with them but if they aren't being an asshole then that, not whether you know they're player X, should be the basis upon which the characters interact.
You're essentially saying that you could fake not being you well enough OOCly to get under the radar. I'm saying "Good on you, neighbour, but there are others who can't, and neither of you should have to."
I mean, I've done this for over a decade. I play in a lot of orgs where they find out they like me before they find out I'm Shaddus.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
So you want someone who was sexually harassed to just be okay with that person? That is the message you are putting forth to the people. Cool.
Edit: 'cause it's just a grudge.
No, I don't. You clearly misunderstood what I was saying.
Yes okay, you are right. You did not specifically speak to that one situation. So I apologise for that. I think that aspect of not 'wanting' to make peace needs to be addressed though and I don't feel like it is respected. For various reasons.
It is also very hard for someone like myself to forgive. Once someone acts out against me I put them in the box of idiots not to bother with and that is that. I am that way for a reason and unfortunately I probably won't ever change. But I also don't bother them. And expecting me to try and move past being treated poorly for whatever reason is just going to end is disappointment. I know this about myself and I have never lied about who or what I am. I am honest to a fault. And I am saying that if people have done/said something so abhorrent it borders on immoral or is immoral I won't waste my time on any kind of reparation. Because I believe that person will remain unchanged or will be a repeat offender which is akin to being in an abusive relationship where you just keep going back thinking they have changed. They haven't. As is my experience with people for over 30 years. But what I do know is that my opinions of people is based off of actual events from that person directed at me or events I have witness with my own eyes. Not going off of assumption or other people's rants. I can't say the same for so many here talking about me as if they know me or have ever actually interacted with me on any real level.
If they want to actually show they are prepared to make nice they could start by actually being nice. Not trying to bait myself or others into pathetic arguments with silly little comments that have nothing to do with the conversation at hand. And sometimes, yes, the thread diverts to another subject matter. But the conversation can remain relevant to the community if not sometimes the thread in general.
I am 100% percent sure that if I made some Glomdoring alt, I'd be able to get along with everyone (yes, everyone). These weird accusations that we would never, ever be able to play with each other is just very unhelpful. It's weird how so much baggage falls away if you A. assume another name with less history and B. act differently enough that people don't know it's you.
We could all stand to act a little differently in this time of crisis.
This (bolded), right here is the problem. If you have to pretend that you aren't player X in order for people to give character Y a shot, then the fourth wall has disappeared. Don't get me wrong, if player X is an asshole then nobody should be forced to play with them but if they aren't being an asshole then that, not whether you know they're player X, should be the basis upon which the characters interact.
You're essentially saying that you could fake not being you well enough OOCly to get under the radar. I'm saying "Good on you, neighbour, but there are others who can't, and neither of you should have to."
I disagree.
It's very likely that you would get along well with someone you hate if you had a do over and did something differently. Also it's very easy to see someone on the other side as a "bad guy", and it's very likely that you would get along with that person if you weren't already prejudiced against them for whatever reason.
Even if we don't take the roleplay aspect into consideration, it's human nature. Everyone in the world has parts of their personalities that you would like and parts you would hate.
You are startled as a lemon meringue pie bounces harmlessly off you after being thrown at you by Mysrai.
I am 100% percent sure that if I made some Glomdoring alt, I'd be able to get along with everyone (yes, everyone). These weird accusations that we would never, ever be able to play with each other is just very unhelpful. It's weird how so much baggage falls away if you A. assume another name with less history and B. act differently enough that people don't know it's you.
We could all stand to act a little differently in this time of crisis.
This (bolded), right here is the problem. If you have to pretend that you aren't player X in order for people to give character Y a shot, then the fourth wall has disappeared. Don't get me wrong, if player X is an asshole then nobody should be forced to play with them but if they aren't being an asshole then that, not whether you know they're player X, should be the basis upon which the characters interact.
You're essentially saying that you could fake not being you well enough OOCly to get under the radar. I'm saying "Good on you, neighbour, but there are others who can't, and neither of you should have to."
I mean, I've done this for over a decade. I play in a lot of orgs where they find out they like me before they find out I'm Shaddus.
People definitely have biases towards players and let it affect IC relations. I've been guilty of it at times in the past though I always tried to uphold my RP to be the same no matter who the player is, even if ME the player didn't like the other player. I am not my character and my character is not me, same for anyone else.
It's why it's really really frustrating when someone who doesn't like you the person, finds out who your alt is and then proceeds to tell everyone who will hear so they too can judge them based on the player/other characters.
So, I went to bed shortly after my post, thinking I had taken care of it, but it certainly spiraled out of hand again.
I've just deleted a whole lot of posts that are again off-topic.
I think you missed a bunch.
Seems they got cleaned afterwards, probably took a while to type that post.
Unrelated to the quote(s), making people hold back and jar up their frustrations does more damage than good. That is usually the first step of any therapy, letting the people get it all out of their systems so that they can progress. Rules aren't being broken, and quite honestly silencing either side and deleting posts only builds the frustration than helps to deflate it. If you'd like, we can try a few avenues to achieve this, some with or without supervision. This is not a threat, not a stick-up, whatever, this is purely to get all the anger out:
1) We make a thread dedicated to venting the frustrations and can honestly post what is on the mind without moderation. 2) We make a discord and invite the people that seem to have this baggage to vent. 3) We continue to follow this exact setup and nothing fixes.
We're already accused, daily even, of option 2 and a refusal to attend anything that would make someone feel bad, so that's out. And option 3 clearly isn't working, as we're taking time away from you to clean up forum posts that truthfully aren't that horrible.
Venting for RL months straight has not helped people to "get over it and progress". I feel like the admin tried this for months; threads got closed from time to time but people were not given warnings, so it just kept... going. If it does not help, why allow it? All it ends up doing is /offTopicing thread after thread. As we saw here.
We certainly don't need an unmoderated forum thread. Lack of Rants got deleted for a reason. It has been tried.
Trying to work with people and improve game health includes not spitting in peoples' faces when they talk to you. "Venting" at them does not make them want to extend a hand for that handshake, and certainly does not make the concept of a merger any easier to swallow.
I really think people just need to talk to each other in one on one situtations if there are issues. If you have an issue discuss and I'm sure it can be resolved.
Can't really call it venting when posts are being removed, which I mentioned, that builds the frustration further. What really doesn't help is when trying to even respond to certain individuals is just a bait trap. I can guarantee if people are allowed to actually say how they feel, they'll do a lot better going forward. What's going on now is closer to torture and not therapy. We are being silenced, multiple people in this thread, because it isn't playing nice. We're becoming exhausted just dealing with this, and is slowly becoming not even worth bothering because clearly, nobody wins.
As a note, venting in therapy is... Not the same as what's happening here. There is guided venting to help both parties find the why behind the anger. And then there's venting because you feel you're anger is righteous.
Like Coraline said, maybe internet forums aren't the best place for therapy. :P
So you want someone who was sexually harassed to just be okay with that person? That is the message you are putting forth to the people. Cool.
Edit: 'cause it's just a grudge.
No, I don't. You clearly misunderstood what I was saying.
Yes okay, you are right. You did not specifically speak to that one situation. So I apologise for that. I think that aspect of not 'wanting' to make peace needs to be addressed though and I don't feel like it is respected. For various reasons.
It is also very hard for someone like myself to forgive. Once someone acts out against me I put them in the box of idiots not to bother with and that is that. I am that way for a reason and unfortunately I probably won't ever change. But I also don't bother them. And expecting me to try and move past being treated poorly for whatever reason is just going to end is disappointment. I know this about myself and I have never lied about who or what I am. I am honest to a fault. And I am saying that if people have done/said something so abhorrent it borders on immoral or is immoral I won't waste my time on any kind of reparation. Because I believe that person will remain unchanged or will be a repeat offender which is akin to being in an abusive relationship where you just keep going back thinking they have changed. They haven't. As is my experience with people for over 30 years. But what I do know is that my opinions of people is based off of actual events from that person directed at me or events I have witness with my own eyes. Not going off of assumption or other people's rants. I can't say the same for so many here talking about me as if they know me or have ever actually interacted with me on any real level.
If they want to actually show they are prepared to make nice they could start by actually being nice. Not trying to bait myself or others into pathetic arguments with silly little comments that have nothing to do with the conversation at hand. And sometimes, yes, the thread diverts to another subject matter. But the conversation can remain relevant to the community if not sometimes the thread in general.
Nobody can control anyone other than themselves. If we all sit here waiting for everyone else, nothing happens.
If you're honestly going to say that you won't let things go and won't move forward, why should anyone else bother? Be the change you want to see in the world and all that.
Oh man, if these posts that are being removed are being taken as attempted therapy, not even close. No no, these posts are trying to stay on the 'not vicious' side of things. Believe me, there are a number of us that would gladly tell you how we feel if it wasn't going to just turn into a banning. This simple fact, that we're not allowed to express the malcontent or call people out on bs or lies, that is the true fury we don't get to speak.
We went for RL months without posts being deleted or warnings being applied. All that happened was threads being closed after a few days of venting / piling on, then people would wait a few days and start up in the next thread. "Not silencing people" has also been tried, people spent so long "saying how they really feel"... and then they did it again, and again, and again. That is also quite exhausting. There have been so many posts put up intentionally to try to bait the "other side," too.
We need to be able to have discussions about the game that are seriously aimed at the game, not just trying to bait / trigger people. Venting really does not help that; venting itself often ends up being bait by itself, at least as applied to these forums. It just never ends.
Can't really call it venting when posts are being removed, which I mentioned, that builds the frustration further. What really doesn't help is when trying to even respond to certain individuals is just a bait trap. I can guarantee if people are allowed to actually say how they feel, they'll do a lot better going forward. What's going on now is closer to torture and not therapy. We are being silenced, multiple people in this thread, because it isn't playing nice. We're becoming exhausted just dealing with this, and is slowly becoming not even worth bothering because clearly, nobody wins.
We let it go, we let people say their piece and get it off their chest.
Can't really call it venting when posts are being removed, which I mentioned, that builds the frustration further. What really doesn't help is when trying to even respond to certain individuals is just a bait trap. I can guarantee if people are allowed to actually say how they feel, they'll do a lot better going forward. What's going on now is closer to torture and not therapy. We are being silenced, multiple people in this thread, because it isn't playing nice. We're becoming exhausted just dealing with this, and is slowly becoming not even worth bothering because clearly, nobody wins.
We let it go, we let people say their piece and get it off their chest.
Comments
An alliance is an agreement to help each other out and fight for each others benefit at its basic level. Roleplay wise you can ally with your polar opposites I suppose but its going to be a rocky ride. (Even enemies can come to agreements. Stalin and Hilter had a fair few agreements and mutually beneficial treaties)
For more long term lasting alliances though there has to be some common ground they can all roughly agree on. The Celest glom one is based on a mutual hatred of the tain for example.
You're essentially saying that you could fake not being you well enough OOCly to get under the radar. I'm saying "Good on you, neighbour, but there are others who can't, and neither of you should have to."
I've just deleted a whole lot of posts that are again off-topic.
Here's the thing, I'm seeing some players recently (like Rancoura and Maligorn in this thread) who are making earnest efforts to move forward. Making efforts to really talk about things, move forward in good faith and try to do what's best for the game. (Kudos to you, thank you for that).
I'm also seeing some players that just continue to hold grudges, continue to make accusations, and continue to move down this path of division. I understand the reasoning for this. I understand that insults were flung around, I understand that aggressiveness was thrown around and I'm not trying to invalidate those feelings or say that you need to forget them.
What I'm saying is that we need more empathy and more understanding. We need to stop looking at things from our own perspectives and start looking through other people's shoes. You can't sit here and bully people under the guise of 'telling it like it is' then proceed to complain about being bullied. You can't sit here and talk down to people, belittle them, ignore what they're saying and then claim that you're only trying to help. You can't sit here and hold grudges against things people did then expect them to let their grudges against you go.
I'm not talking about any single one person here, I'm talking about individuals on both sides of this divide, that undertake these same behaviors. If you're finding yourself offended by it, then you're probably one of them. If you're thinking that I am referring to someone else that isn't on your side, then you should take a good look at your own side and see who I can be referring to there.
Being 100% honest, I've certainly played a role in this divide as a player. I've been on the 'git gud' 'just put more effort in' train before, so I'm not coming from a pedestal or some moral high ground. I'm coming to you from someone who has been on these frontlines and has realized that the war we're fighting has no end unless we make it end. Getting some distance has given me a different perspective, realize where my own faults lie and has allowed me to move forward. It's allowed me to see both sides of the argument from a new light and with new understanding. Both sides are guilty of doing things they shouldn't have done. Both sides are guilty of holding grudges and not letting things go. Both sides are guilty of working in bad faith. Both sides are guilty.
Both sides are needed to move forward.
After this point, warnings and bans start.
Unrelated to the quote(s), making people hold back and jar up their frustrations does more damage than good. That is usually the first step of any therapy, letting the people get it all out of their systems so that they can progress. Rules aren't being broken, and quite honestly silencing either side and deleting posts only builds the frustration than helps to deflate it. If you'd like, we can try a few avenues to achieve this, some with or without supervision. This is not a threat, not a stick-up, whatever, this is purely to get all the anger out:
1) We make a thread dedicated to venting the frustrations and can honestly post what is on the mind without moderation.
2) We make a discord and invite the people that seem to have this baggage to vent.
3) We continue to follow this exact setup and nothing fixes.
We're already accused, daily even, of option 2 and a refusal to attend anything that would make someone feel bad, so that's out. And option 3 clearly isn't working, as we're taking time away from you to clean up forum posts that truthfully aren't that horrible.
It is also very hard for someone like myself to forgive. Once someone acts out against me I put them in the box of idiots not to bother with and that is that. I am that way for a reason and unfortunately I probably won't ever change. But I also don't bother them. And expecting me to try and move past being treated poorly for whatever reason is just going to end is disappointment. I know this about myself and I have never lied about who or what I am. I am honest to a fault. And I am saying that if people have done/said something so abhorrent it borders on immoral or is immoral I won't waste my time on any kind of reparation. Because I believe that person will remain unchanged or will be a repeat offender which is akin to being in an abusive relationship where you just keep going back thinking they have changed. They haven't. As is my experience with people for over 30 years. But what I do know is that my opinions of people is based off of actual events from that person directed at me or events I have witness with my own eyes. Not going off of assumption or other people's rants. I can't say the same for so many here talking about me as if they know me or have ever actually interacted with me on any real level.
If they want to actually show they are prepared to make nice they could start by actually being nice. Not trying to bait myself or others into pathetic arguments with silly little comments that have nothing to do with the conversation at hand. And sometimes, yes, the thread diverts to another subject matter. But the conversation can remain relevant to the community if not sometimes the thread in general.
It's very likely that you would get along well with someone you hate if you had a do over and did something differently. Also it's very easy to see someone on the other side as a "bad guy", and it's very likely that you would get along with that person if you weren't already prejudiced against them for whatever reason.
Even if we don't take the roleplay aspect into consideration, it's human nature. Everyone in the world has parts of their personalities that you would like and parts you would hate.
People definitely have biases towards players and let it affect IC relations. I've been guilty of it at times in the past though I always tried to uphold my RP to be the same no matter who the player is, even if ME the player didn't like the other player. I am not my character and my character is not me, same for anyone else.
It's why it's really really frustrating when someone who doesn't like you the person, finds out who your alt is and then proceeds to tell everyone who will hear so they too can judge them based on the player/other characters.
Like Coraline said, maybe internet forums aren't the best place for therapy. :P
Nobody can control anyone other than themselves. If we all sit here waiting for everyone else, nothing happens.
If you're honestly going to say that you won't let things go and won't move forward, why should anyone else bother? Be the change you want to see in the world and all that.
We're still in the same spot.