I can't tweet about my news post with a zillion errors, so I must declare my dissatisfaction for it instead. The price I pay for typing in the dark and being too lazy to proofread.
(PS BRING BACK TWEETS. Just delete posts, give warnings, but don't take it awaaaaay.)
Why doesn't someone just make a new thread? I don't understand.
Depression returning. Not getting much sleep. Only happiness of late has been in a few interactions here and there and, well. That's about it.
Mmmm.... Sucks to suck.
You're not alone in your depression times. I feel you, man. Remember that you always have people here in Lusternia to talk to when you're feeling down.
I guess I'm the only one that prefers Tweets gone. >_>
Mmh. My checking of the forums has been surprisingly pleasant these past few days. I just want to know at what point Tweets went from "small things that happened that aren't quite raves" to "HATE CONTAINMENT ZONE"??? I thought we all decided that rants threads were bad business a long time ago?
I think rant threads, if properly contained, are actually beneficial to healthy foruming. As long as they're properly policed to make sure it does go from '[explicitive] you buddy' to 'go off yourself', they can keep places like Tweets clean of aggravation and have Raves not full of passive-aggressive "raves". But apparently Lusternians don't known how to act like adults, and we can't have them.
I think rant threads, if properly contained, are actually beneficial to healthy foruming. As long as they're properly policed to make sure it does go from '[explicitive] you buddy' to 'go off yourself', they can keep places like Tweets clean of aggravation and have Raves not full of passive-aggressive "raves". But apparently Lusternians don't known how to act like adults, and we can't have them.
Yeah, that's the issue. It's impossible to keep them from devolving into a shrieking mass of hatred and drama. Given enough time, it will happen.
EDIT: OMG I hate these stupid breaking quotes.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited July 2015
There's nothing not "adult like" about being expressing dislike of or avid disagreement with another person, up to and including passive aggression, sarcasm, and snide remarks. In fact, these are things adults do all the time. I would argue that the least adult like aspect about this whole topic is the expectation that people should act like these things don't exist, in that it's exceedingly naive to expect adults to always get along. People are people, and part of being a person is not getting along with other people sometimes.
I also severely dislike the reliable mischaracterization of people having strongly worded disagreements as "bile," "toxic," or "vitriolic." There's always this sub group that act put upon because they chose to read and participate (or not participate and just exist on the same forums as other conversations and players) in these conversations. It's like walking in the mall and yelling at the girl in ugg boots because she looks like a tacky sorority girl. I might have to be in proximity to it, it my be within my field of vision, but the reality is it doesn't actually affect me unless I choose to let it affect me. Making a big deal about something on a personal level that you have full control over completely avoiding is actually far less adult like than a forums disagreement.
I just happen to think people need to grow up and get a thicker skin. People dislike eachother? People express that dislike openly? People don't act fake just to appease overly sensitive bystanders? Great! Welcome to reality.
Obviously there are lines that shouldn't be crossed, and sometimes we edge our toes over the line of personal attacks and slights, but the false veneer of getting along and only expressing positivity and rainbow sparkles is as tedious as it ever was. God forbid we don't bury honesty under a pile of bullshit all the time.
More to the point, this is a competitive game and competitive people sometimes...wait for it...get competitive. Addressing violations individually, rather than a blanket mute button on the community, may be more time intensive but ultimately I think the pay off is a happier, lessed agitated player base. The ability to express yourself honestly, even if that expression isn't always positive or "nice," is actually a very healthy thing.
edit: Maybe that's just me. Where I grew up, you didn't cry just because someone shoved you. You dust yourself off and get back in the game.
I happen to think the contractions argument going on in quotes is wildly pointless and stirring up a commotion over nothing, but some people care and express that dislike of it, those opinions are valid and that's fine. I can choose to not be involved in that discussion, no harm no foul. I'm not put upon just because an argument I perceive as frivolous is going on around me.
In a proper forum for rants, the only way you need control yourself to be "adult like" is to recognise that the person on the other end of the screen is another person and do your very best to toe the line, which many of our players have problems with.
You're absolutely right, and I would love a place for the Admins to see that there is malcontent that isn't listening in to random clans when we start bitching. If we're supposed to pretend we're completely satisfied with things that we aren't, it leads to distrust towards the administration by the players and a sense of betrayal towards the players when they eventually backlash against a choice the administration makes.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I think there has to be an acceptance of the fact that players are going to vent and express often unpleasant frustration. It will either occur in game where the admin can't oversee it all, on forums where they can, or away from the administration entirely where there are no rules whatsoever i.e. facebook. I can assure you, the comments I've seen about myself on pastebin from IG clans have been far worse, including slurs and hate speech, than what I've ever received on forums even during the Lack of Rants days. If players that disagree with my above post think that's a healthier ventiliation of grievances and dislike than a forums thread, then I think we live in different realities.
I think if you don't like something on the forums, nobody made you check it.
I only come on here to check the mechanic's corner subforum, and the real world forum now. I haven't looked at any of the other ones in some time. I haven't been able to play the game, so those aren't going to be anything but frustrating reminders that I don't have time to MUD. And there is a cyclic nature to the amount of ranting/fighting/namecalling/whatever. It'll ebb and flow, like the tide.
But, you know, it doesn't have to touch you. You don't have to get in the water. If it's full of hungry sharks with self esteem issues waiting to take a bite out of someone who gets in... don't get in.
There, wasn't that easy? Especially when you're not even the subject of it? I understand it can feel personal sometimes, when you're -actually involved-, but if two numbnuts wanna shout at each other, and they're bothering you... they aren't shouting at you, and you don't have to read their posts.
So to expand on my position a bit more, here's what I don't like about the Tweets thread. My primary concern is that it always seems to devolve into personal drama. Attacking people, not positions, and dreding up old quotes and actions to score points. I largely think this is pointless and only exacerbates problems. It also affects my mood in a negative way and I end up enjoying the game less, which I want to avoid.
For this reason I avoid a lot of other OOC places that seem to be just for complaining, and though I'm in a few OOC clans, I try to avoiding complaining about specific individuals (I'm definitely not a perfect angel though) and leave clans that are too negative.
I'll try to directly address some arguments that were brought up, which I do think have a lot of validity, but I do have some counter-points.
- Negative comments will just go elsewhere, and in a nastier form. Having a moderated Rants/Tweets thread contains it and keeps it at a mangeable level.
This is likely true that negativity will be impossible to remove entirely, however, the existence of negativity somewhere else doesn't mean that it needs to exist here.
Further, this forum is the primary and official place for OOC discussion about the game. This has a few effects: There is no disclaimer about the nature of the Tweets thread, and in fact the name is relatively benign. It also means that when someone @mentions someone, they are drawn to that thread, and it shows up on Recent Discussions.
So newcomers might see the thread and be repelled by the negativity. It also means that it is essentially advertised to the whole of the playerbase and thus people will go there. If people have to search out a place to attack others, then it's less likely it will happen, and less likely to spread and affect everyone.
I don't necessarily think that the Tweets thread has to be deleted. If there is closer moderation and/or a better delineation between rants and other stuff in the forums, then I would be satisfied.
- People should be allowed to express their disagreements, even vehemently and with strong language.
I agree with the premise here, and some people definitely are too sensitive. People do have a right to say what they want, how they want. And it can definitely be frustrating to feel like you're being coddled. This is especially a subjective point, and I imagine there's some cultural differences in play on what level is appropriate.
On the other hand, I am assuming there's a reason why all I ever read on effective communication is how to avoid declaring blame, using "I statements" and focusing on issues (I'm not a psychologist, this is just my amateur reading), etc.
- It allows the admins to see what complaints people have about the game and what areas they could focus on.
I don't have a problem with people being upset and complaining about issues or events, etc. This is a good thing, and we've had complaints minor and stuff that has taken it's own thread about things in the game people don't like that even if they get pretty heated, can stay on topic and be productive. It's personal attacks, ad hominens and other stuff that I don't think are very useful and distract from other things.
So that's some of my thoughts. Hopefully that makes sense.
I'm still sad about @Tarkenton's potential Shadowrun falling through. I so want to play a cyberpunk stealth/intrigue game, so many interesting character archetypes to plaaaay.
Tweets was not closed out of some naive desire by the administration to force the forums into a Leave It to Beaver-esque haven of rainbows, sunshine, and good feelings. We did not close it because someone said a naughty word. We did not close it to try and suppress complaints about the game or our decisions.
Tweets was closed because, once again, the "strongly worded disagreements" had escalated to a point where we were getting complaints, and it was devolving into nothing more than name calling.
I'd like to remind everyone that Lusternia does have two Facebook pages. One which is sort of an official one, and on which Estarra occasionally posts, and a second one which is called Unedited Lusternia Rants and Raves. You're welcome to join either, especially the second one in which I'm the only mod. If you're not comfortable exposing your IRL self, feel free to make a fake Facebook profile and look up the group.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
The pain is real. I slipped on water which my darling children spilled and didn't think to either clean up or let me know about. I did manage to break my fall - with my face, straight into the tiles. Much blood, much pain. Split nose, split lip, black eyes...I look classy.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
A gigantic spider decided to crawl onto my laptop and promptly frighten me into screaming and startling the significant other awake. This led to a futile spider hunt involving copious amounts of laundry-flipping, pillow checks, and general stomping about in the hopes of stirring the creature from his hiding place.
The spider is still at large in the bedroom. I guess he lives there with my boyfriend now.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
The pain is real. I slipped on water which my darling children spilled and didn't think to either clean up or let me know about. I did manage to break my fall - with my face, straight into the tiles. Much blood, much pain. Split nose, split lip, black eyes...I look classy.
That sounds like the time I was cleaning the kitchen and overheated. Face to floor, glasses cut my face all up, and now I have a fetching scar around my eyebrow. If you have any cold cans of pop, they help swelling and quench your anger with sugary goodness. Lemon juice is also really good for blood stains! (I really hope you feel better soon, you're tops)
Comments
Why doesn't someone just make a new thread? I don't understand.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Yeah, that's the issue. It's impossible to keep them from devolving into a shrieking mass of hatred and drama. Given enough time, it will happen.
EDIT: OMG I hate these stupid breaking quotes.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
For this reason I avoid a lot of other OOC places that seem to be just for complaining, and though I'm in a few OOC clans, I try to avoiding complaining about specific individuals (I'm definitely not a perfect angel though) and leave clans that are too negative.
I'll try to directly address some arguments that were brought up, which I do think have a lot of validity, but I do have some counter-points.
- Negative comments will just go elsewhere, and in a nastier form. Having a moderated Rants/Tweets thread contains it and keeps it at a mangeable level.
This is likely true that negativity will be impossible to remove entirely, however, the existence of negativity somewhere else doesn't mean that it needs to exist here.
Further, this forum is the primary and official place for OOC discussion about the game. This has a few effects: There is no disclaimer about the nature of the Tweets thread, and in fact the name is relatively benign. It also means that when someone @mentions someone, they are drawn to that thread, and it shows up on Recent Discussions.
So newcomers might see the thread and be repelled by the negativity. It also means that it is essentially advertised to the whole of the playerbase and thus people will go there. If people have to search out a place to attack others, then it's less likely it will happen, and less likely to spread and affect everyone.
I don't necessarily think that the Tweets thread has to be deleted. If there is closer moderation and/or a better delineation between rants and other stuff in the forums, then I would be satisfied.
- People should be allowed to express their disagreements, even vehemently and with strong language.
I agree with the premise here, and some people definitely are too sensitive. People do have a right to say what they want, how they want. And it can definitely be frustrating to feel like you're being coddled. This is especially a subjective point, and I imagine there's some cultural differences in play on what level is appropriate.
On the other hand, I am assuming there's a reason why all I ever read on effective communication is how to avoid declaring blame, using "I statements" and focusing on issues (I'm not a psychologist, this is just my amateur reading), etc.
- It allows the admins to see what complaints people have about the game and what areas they could focus on.
I don't have a problem with people being upset and complaining about issues or events, etc. This is a good thing, and we've had complaints minor and stuff that has taken it's own thread about things in the game people don't like that even if they get pretty heated, can stay on topic and be productive. It's personal attacks, ad hominens and other stuff that I don't think are very useful and distract from other things.
So that's some of my thoughts. Hopefully that makes sense.
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Anyone else lagging a lot IG today?!?
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."