People don't often see a problem until it effects them. This is true in real life just as much as it is IRL.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
If I'm being honest, I think Magnaorans looking at a quest with mild consquences in the void absent of the rest of the "unfair" things in lusternia are actually least objective in this discussion. I mean, to dismiss things like TBC and soul forge as "accessible to everyone," which essentially implies it's acceptable to forsake cornerstone org RP in many cases to do so is really bonkers to me. I love Mag, I love a lot of Magnagorans, but the fact that the rhetoric about regen has shifted from the usual "barely noticeable/ nice bust not necessary," to hefty maluses and ascension defining shows me how ludicrous it's getting. I mean, change it if the quest is a nuisance, but let's be honest about it, it's not because your experience in lusternia is tangeably impacted by -5 regen.
I imagine the complaint is there because the Spire is constantly up. It's been up since I was a novice. Nonstop, by people (Taevyn) farming curios. It's an irritant that specifically targets one minor section of the playerbase. There is no similar quest to put a malus on only the living. Even the rewards for taking down the Spire are not equal to putting it up, despite it being more difficult.
I think the regen malus does impact my hunting and makes it more dangerous for me. I don't think it's right to outright dismiss it as 'insignificant' because you personally would not be affected by it if you were under the negative impact of the Spire.
Please stop disregarding a valid complaint, and then point out other quests that are rarely done and say they are a major issue. Spire has been up non-stop since my novice days - I have not heard of this forge, but I have been able to gather bards and scholars on a daily basis, so I don't think the TBC quest has been done. A quest in constant activity cannot be compared to quests that are barely ever enacted.
It is insignificant and I base that on the beauty of math. Whether I'm personally affected by it or not, the math behind regen remains the same. Yes, they actually can be compared when the actual complaint is less about regen (sorry, it's not about the regen) and more about exactly what you kind of accidentally admitted to: Not being able to spite quest back at people. I mean, it's more or less the same reason I am going to envoy totems but at least I'm up front about it. PS there was a period of time when TBC was put up constantly. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean you can dismiss it as insignificant etc etc.
It is insignificant and I base that on the beauty of math. Whether I'm personally affected by it or not, the math behind regen remains the same. Yes, they actually can be compared when the actual complaint is less about regen (sorry, it's not about the regen) and more about exactly what you kind of accidentally admitted to: Not being able to spite quest back at people. I mean, it's more or less the same reason I am going to envoy totems but at least I'm up front about it. PS there was a period of time when TBC was put up constantly. Sooooo...still valid!
My complaint is not being able to 'spite back at people', it's about equality and balance.This quest, as @Lavinya has mentioned previously mentioned before, targets only a specific subset of characters, each and every time. It is not done specifically to the benefit of whoever does it. Bringing up quests that are not similar, and not being done, just distracts from the original points made needlessly.
For me, it IS about the regen - if you hunt outdoors a lot, it has an impact. I don't know why you insist on saying it is not important, to exhaustive exercises in repetition.
I've said my fill on this. This will be my last post on this particular issue. @Drocilla has mentioned that they will look into the quest, and she is amazing, so I trust her.
Jez...you really are an extremely narrow-sighted individual. See beyond the excuses of "It is just because he doesnt like the org!" and try to actually read a fricken comment. Your posts are almost as bad as those in your envoy reports (which let's face it, are hilariously bad).
LOL.
(Emphasis mine.)
1
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I'm mostly being contradictory because it smells a lot like the over dramatized vascanti kerfuffle which was always annoying (and inaccurate). If it's becoming a nuisance, envoy it. Plenty of unused reports in the last months.
If I'm being honest, I think Magnaorans looking at a quest with mild consquences in the void absent of the rest of the "unfair" things in lusternia are actually least objective in this discussion. I mean, to dismiss things like TBC and soul forge as "accessible to everyone," which essentially implies it's acceptable to forsake cornerstone org RP in many cases to do so is really bonkers to me. I love Mag, I love a lot of Magnagorans, but the fact that the rhetoric about regen has shifted from the usual "barely noticeable/ nice bust not necessary," to hefty maluses and ascension defining shows me how ludicrous it's getting. I mean, change it if the quest is a nuisance, but let's be honest about it, it's not because your experience in lusternia is tangeably impacted by -5 regen.
One, its impact was never clearly defined, and as Rivius mentioned, was bugged. Hence, before the overhaul, we would say things like the Spire doesn't have a large impact, because it didn't have any impact, so you shouldn't remove it to let them have more curios.
And now things have changed, and it is obvious it is a problem.
Two, just because someone is mag or Celest or Glom doesn't disqualify their arguments. Facts are facts, wherever they come from, and there are zero quests outside of the spire that have a negative impact in combat terms for only one faction. This should apply to any future quests against any organization, if it inhibits only one faction, and actually impacts their ability to perform at a high level, it should be removed immediately.
Also, just because something is worse, or people had it worse, does not mean it can't be changed or shouldn't be fixed. Problems need fixing, and this is a problem.
Before you say envoy it (again), there was an open discussion about regeneration levels on the forums here, and the spire was never mentioned and its numbers never included. This is just another example of an arbitrary overhaul changed smashed through without going through the proper channels, and we are left to wonder why or the justification for it.
If I'm being honest, the only biased one here is you, we didn't dismiss TBC or Soulforge, we explained to you how it works, how anyone can take advantage of it, and how your RP might prevent it or Halifax treaty prevents it, then you just ignore that Mag could have a treaty preventing it, that Mag Rp or relations with other orgs would be negatively impacted by those quests, which prevents them from being abused like the spire. Just because it was made for mag and that it was used at one point doesn't mean things haven't changed and the Rp hasn't changed. Oh, and as Xenthos pointed out, Glom has put TBC up more than anyone probably, yet you ignore that and stereotype Mags as being biased.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
4
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
It is insignificant and I base that on the beauty of math. Whether I'm personally affected by it or not, the math behind regen remains the same. Yes, they actually can be compared when the actual complaint is less about regen (sorry, it's not about the regen) and more about exactly what you kind of accidentally admitted to: Not being able to spite quest back at people. I mean, it's more or less the same reason I am going to envoy totems but at least I'm up front about it. PS there was a period of time when TBC was put up constantly. Sooooo...still valid!
My complaint is not being able to 'spite back at people', it's about equality and balance.This quest, as @Lavinya has mentioned previously mentioned before, targets only a specific subset of characters, each and every time. It is not done specifically to the benefit of whoever does it. Bringing up quests that are not similar, and not being done, just distracts from the original points made needlessly.
For me, it IS about the regen - if you hunt outdoors a lot, it has an impact. I don't know why you insist on saying it is not important, to exhaustive exercises in repetition.
I've said my fill on this. This will be my last post on this particular issue. @Drocilla has mentioned that they will look into the quest, and she is amazing, so I trust her.
"equality and balance," but you don't want to "distract," with quests that heavily lean towards your org. Alright. Convenient, I guess.
I don't even know why I would argue with Celina. Using the logic she stated, she disqualifies her own opinion because Glomdoring can do the same and has used TBC more often than Mag, according to Xenthos (hi @Krellan!).
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited July 2015
Oh Jesus, mag stereotype? I may disagree with you on this topic, but I've always been a mag fan. Spare me that hot bowl of bullshit and serve it to someone else. For the record, Xenthos is wrong, it was put up more frequently before Krellan by the Jhager group. To such an extent that seren spent months killing norchatine at respawn because it got so bad. People actually declared and fought over the TBC because it became such a griefing tool. I ignore it (aka I don't blindly nod along go something someone posted on forums because it suits my argument) for the same reason I ignore complaints about regen. i know better. Probably just Celina and her horrible anti mag bias though.
You don't think it's a big deal. We get it. We however, disagree. Thankfully, it doesn't come down to the results of a debate on the forums (or dear god I hope not) and will be decided by the powers that be.
Celinas post above is how you ignore most of a post entirely and degrade it two points, let's recap what was missed:
1. TBC has no impact on combat. You may believe regeneration doesn't have an impact, but not getting 5% of your health back is a large enough amount to not be ignored, especially if you want to argue about bards/scholars being important, because that's the exact amount that Portius cited for the impact of bards and scholars has on winning Cultural Center.
2. Magnagora role play dictates that Soulforge and TBC could not be raised often. As you pointed out, it did at one point because we could take on the world. That is not true anymore and the role play has to adjust to the reality. If you cite role play preventing organizations from using them, you could not ignore that the same applies to Magnagora now. It is unfeasible.
3. Regeneration levels were all discussed and worked on over the forums. Zero mentioning of the Spire. None. We shouldn't have to envoy something, take months to get it changed, when it should've been discussed before being added, as was everything else regeneration related.
4. It doesn't matter what happened in the past. It's in the past, what matters is how you take what happened, apply that knowledge to the future, and find a solution. If someone is using Krellan or old school Jhagar or Inagin or Narsrim to justify their actions today, they are in the wrong. Those people listed were trolls and got enjoyment from causing suffering. They should never be examples of a justification.
And that was all probably more thought and words that needed to be put into arguing with her. Baelor and Drocilla said they will look into it, and that's amazing. Thank you.
2014/04/19 01:38:01 - Leolamins drained 2000000 power to raise Silvanus as a Vernal Ascendant.
2014/07/23 05:01:29 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Munsia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:07 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Arimisia as a Vernal Ascendant.
2015/05/24 06:03:58 - Silvanus drained 2000000 power to raise Lavinya as a Vernal Ascendant.
4
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited July 2015
It's more that I'm on my phone, and the effort it would take to address you point by point on this tiny keyboard would be pointless the moment you started implying I have some new found bias against Mags (you've yet to explain the bias of mine). Instead of rationality, you're equating admin dictated lore with day to day treaties as the same type of RP. If you don't understand the difference between what you can't do temporarily because of IG political convenience and what an org can't do ever because of fundamental conflicts with that orgs existance, I don't imagine an actual discussion where you aren't trying to be overly condescending is actually possible. Heck, you quoted Krellan's name twice and accused me of ignoring Xenthos, but when I explained the reality of the TBC, your response is "Don't live in the past!" Good grief, you turn into something else when people disagree with you.
0
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Anyways, glad it's getting addressed, albeit by dubious methods. Unfortunate that you think anyone who disagrees with you and your posse has some bias against you and your org.
I don't think -5/-3/-3 for regen of all things is really that big of a deal. It's regen. Half of the racial debates revolved around regen being butt awful of a demi perk.
Yes, but you aren't me. I find it annoying(also having to throw away an egg cuz someone in a city did a city quest is stupid RP to me).
It also isn't just the loss for mag. As the mag's opponent not only gets a bonus, but doesn't have a penalty. The difference is between opponents rather than just a single individual.
If I'm being honest, I think Magnaorans looking at a quest with mild consquences in the void absent of the rest of the "unfair" things in lusternia are actually least objective in this discussion. I mean, to dismiss things like TBC and soul forge as "accessible to everyone," which essentially implies it's acceptable to forsake cornerstone org RP in many cases to do so is really bonkers to me. I love Mag, I love a lot of Magnagorans, but the fact that the rhetoric about regen has shifted from the usual "barely noticeable/ nice bust not necessary," to hefty maluses and ascension defining shows me how ludicrous it's getting. I mean, change it if the quest is a nuisance, but let's be honest about it, it's not because your experience in lusternia is tangeably impacted by -5 regen.
I imagine the complaint is there because the Spire is constantly up. It's been up since I was a novice. Nonstop, by people (Taevyn) farming curios. It's an irritant that specifically targets one minor section of the playerbase. There is no similar quest to put a malus on only the living. Even the rewards for taking down the Spire are not equal to putting it up, despite it being more difficult.
I think the regen malus does impact my hunting and makes it more dangerous for me. I don't think it's right to outright dismiss it as 'insignificant' because you personally would not be affected by it if you were under the negative impact of the Spire.
Please stop disregarding a valid complaint, and then point out other quests that are rarely done and say they are a major issue. Spire has been up non-stop since my novice days - I have not heard of this forge, but I have been able to gather bards and scholars on a daily basis, so I don't think the TBC quest has been done. A quest in constant activity cannot be compared to quests that are barely ever enacted.
I've put it up three times in my year of playing this game. I farm my vernals through catacombs. Either way, it only gives the malus outdoors, during the day, on prime. There was a bug over this, I'm pretty sure @Akyaevin will remember it, and as far as I remember it was fixed. So if you hunt the Undervault it shouldn't hit you, for example.
The only reason I taught myself to do the quest is because someone decided to keep the TBC up forever.
You know Thoros and co raised it repeatedly, but that was back when Mag could fight the world.
Even then I'm pretty sure we lost more than we gained (and definitely lost more than we could have earned). The Soulforge drains 500 more power from each city it hits than it gives to the benefiting org (i.e. so if it drains 800 power each from Celest, Gaudiguch and Hallifax, it gives 300 to Magnagora). And it takes a chunk of essence to set the targetting, so you're effectively losing power there too.
If I'm being honest, I think Magnaorans looking at a quest with mild consquences in the void absent of the rest of the "unfair" things in lusternia are actually least objective in this discussion. I mean, to dismiss things like TBC and soul forge as "accessible to everyone," which essentially implies it's acceptable to forsake cornerstone org RP in many cases to do so is really bonkers to me. I love Mag, I love a lot of Magnagorans, but the fact that the rhetoric about regen has shifted from the usual "barely noticeable/ nice bust not necessary," to hefty maluses and ascension defining shows me how ludicrous it's getting. I mean, change it if the quest is a nuisance, but let's be honest about it, it's not because your experience in lusternia is tangeably impacted by -5 regen.
I imagine the complaint is there because the Spire is constantly up. It's been up since I was a novice. Nonstop, by people (Taevyn) farming curios. It's an irritant that specifically targets one minor section of the playerbase. There is no similar quest to put a malus on only the living. Even the rewards for taking down the Spire are not equal to putting it up, despite it being more difficult.
I think the regen malus does impact my hunting and makes it more dangerous for me. I don't think it's right to outright dismiss it as 'insignificant' because you personally would not be affected by it if you were under the negative impact of the Spire.
Please stop disregarding a valid complaint, and then point out other quests that are rarely done and say they are a major issue. Spire has been up non-stop since my novice days - I have not heard of this forge, but I have been able to gather bards and scholars on a daily basis, so I don't think the TBC quest has been done. A quest in constant activity cannot be compared to quests that are barely ever enacted.
I've put it up three times in my year of playing this game. I farm my vernals through catacombs. Either way, it only gives the malus outdoors, during the day, on prime. There was a bug over this, I'm pretty sure @Akyaevin will remember it, and as far as I remember it was fixed. So if you hunt the Undervault it shouldn't hit you, for example.
The only reason I taught myself to do the quest is because someone decided to keep the TBC up forever.
The bug fixed the outdoors/daytime thing, but I believe they said it wasn't supposed to be restricted to Prime. And it isn't currently. So it now effects everything off-prime, such as domoths or wildnodes or smob raids, if it is not also indoors or nighttime.
Attempted to empower the throne of Urlach, between the item hunt and the undead fishers all I have to say is
The general tactic is to clear the fishers first. There are 45 of them, and you can sell them for 100 gold each. They love to hinder though, so bring a friend.
I am in such a Glomdoring designing rut. I seriously need to find some new motifs that aren't just shadows and insects and raven/darkwood and spiderwebs and foreboding and black roses. I know I need to push myself to do better designs anyways, but trying to think of yet another way to describe a slaugh isn't the direction I really want to go.
Gaudi was easy. All they required was that designs be soaked in booze and/or on fire. I could do that. But now, I'm not sure I can keep up all this gloom and purple.
(I do know this is a failing on my part. There are ideas out there I can work with, no doubt. They're... just not in the Eboncraft catalog)
The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure pure reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog!
Attempted to empower the throne of Urlach, between the item hunt and the undead fishers all I have to say is
The general tactic is to clear the fishers first. There are 45 of them, and you can sell them for 100 gold each. They love to hinder though, so bring a friend.
I had killed them all, I just couldn't figure out where all the hidden items for the puzzle were. And they're fast on the hindering too, very frequently webbed the second I walk in the room with one.
I'll admit it, I can't talk about wetfolds IG without giggling IRL.
-hangs head in shame-
9
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
This is what happens when I don't proofread my newsposts...
"At that time, @Gabriella arrived and, having been appraised of the situation, entered her dreamboy to see what she could discover."
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Comments
The Inner Sea. I take commissions doe.
It is insignificant and I base that on the beauty of math. Whether I'm personally affected by it or not, the math behind regen remains the same. Yes, they actually can be compared when the actual complaint is less about regen (sorry, it's not about the regen) and more about exactly what you kind of accidentally admitted to: Not being able to spite quest back at people. I mean, it's more or less the same reason I am going to envoy totems but at least I'm up front about it. PS there was a period of time when TBC was put up constantly. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean you can dismiss it as insignificant etc etc.
And now things have changed, and it is obvious it is a problem.
Two, just because someone is mag or Celest or Glom doesn't disqualify their arguments. Facts are facts, wherever they come from, and there are zero quests outside of the spire that have a negative impact in combat terms for only one faction. This should apply to any future quests against any organization, if it inhibits only one faction, and actually impacts their ability to perform at a high level, it should be removed immediately.
Also, just because something is worse, or people had it worse, does not mean it can't be changed or shouldn't be fixed. Problems need fixing, and this is a problem.
Before you say envoy it (again), there was an open discussion about regeneration levels on the forums here, and the spire was never mentioned and its numbers never included. This is just another example of an arbitrary overhaul changed smashed through without going through the proper channels, and we are left to wonder why or the justification for it.
If I'm being honest, the only biased one here is you, we didn't dismiss TBC or Soulforge, we explained to you how it works, how anyone can take advantage of it, and how your RP might prevent it or Halifax treaty prevents it, then you just ignore that Mag could have a treaty preventing it, that Mag Rp or relations with other orgs would be negatively impacted by those quests, which prevents them from being abused like the spire. Just because it was made for mag and that it was used at one point doesn't mean things haven't changed and the Rp hasn't changed. Oh, and as Xenthos pointed out, Glom has put TBC up more than anyone probably, yet you ignore that and stereotype Mags as being biased.
"equality and balance," but you don't want to "distract," with quests that heavily lean towards your org. Alright. Convenient, I guess.
1. TBC has no impact on combat. You may believe regeneration doesn't have an impact, but not getting 5% of your health back is a large enough amount to not be ignored, especially if you want to argue about bards/scholars being important, because that's the exact amount that Portius cited for the impact of bards and scholars has on winning Cultural Center.
2. Magnagora role play dictates that Soulforge and TBC could not be raised often. As you pointed out, it did at one point because we could take on the world. That is not true anymore and the role play has to adjust to the reality. If you cite role play preventing organizations from using them, you could not ignore that the same applies to Magnagora now. It is unfeasible.
3. Regeneration levels were all discussed and worked on over the forums. Zero mentioning of the Spire. None. We shouldn't have to envoy something, take months to get it changed, when it should've been discussed before being added, as was everything else regeneration related.
4. It doesn't matter what happened in the past. It's in the past, what matters is how you take what happened, apply that knowledge to the future, and find a solution. If someone is using Krellan or old school Jhagar or Inagin or Narsrim to justify their actions today, they are in the wrong. Those people listed were trolls and got enjoyment from causing suffering. They should never be examples of a justification.
And that was all probably more thought and words that needed to be put into arguing with her. Baelor and Drocilla said they will look into it, and that's amazing. Thank you.
The only reason I taught myself to do the quest is because someone decided to keep the TBC up forever.
Ah. The bug isn't in my list anymore, and I can't remember exactly what Roark said in the comment on it.
Gaudi was easy. All they required was that designs be soaked in booze and/or on fire. I could do that. But now, I'm not sure I can keep up all this gloom and purple.
(I do know this is a failing on my part. There are ideas out there I can work with, no doubt. They're... just not in the Eboncraft catalog)
"At that time, @Gabriella arrived and, having been appraised of the situation, entered her dreamboy to see what she could discover."