Tweets V: Tweet and Tower

Raeri

Do you get a forum badge after you hit a certain number of Troll tagged comments?

Shaddus

I must say, I'm terribly dismayed at your anger towards me. Here I am at work, dismayed that you've been forced to play this horribly underpowered archetype for real life years, with little to show for it.

Have the gods no mercy? Can't your guild envoy do something to help you overcome the bias against you, and finally gain some clout in battle, something to even the odds?

I just don't see why everyone is against you, Celina. Both you and I see it. They're holding you back, and it's just not fair.

Shaddus

Ahem.

Phantom spheres is one skill I've never really had the experience of using successfully.

Dys

Buying presents as motivation/justification for bringing my own lunch to work and not snacking. Zero calorie treats!

Cyndarin

Shaddus said:

I must say, I'm terribly dismayed at your anger towards me. Here I am at work, dismayed that you've been forced to play this horribly underpowered archetype for real life years, with little to show for it. Have the gods no mercy? Can't your guild envoy do something to help you overcome the bias against you, and finally gain some clout in battle, something to even the odds? I just don't see why everyone is against you, Celina. Both you and I see it. They're holding you back, and it's just not fair.

edit: not worth it. You're so pretty, Shaddus.

Shaddus

Celina said:

Shaddus said:

I must say, I'm terribly dismayed at your anger towards me. Here I am at work, dismayed that you've been forced to play this horribly underpowered archetype for real life years, with little to show for it.

Have the gods no mercy? Can't your guild envoy do something to help you overcome the bias against you, and finally gain some clout in battle, something to even the odds?

I just don't see why everyone is against you, Celina. Both you and I see it. They're holding you back, and it's just not fair.

edit: not worth it. You're so pretty, Shaddus.

Raezon

If you're still taking shots at each other and ruining everyone's tweeting experience when I wake up in a few hours, there's going to be a lot of warnings flying around. Raezon isn't a morning person.

Angry admin face -> (turns out I'm not so good at the emoticons, so pretend its an angry face)

Shaddus

Celina called me pretty, and I sang her a Michael Bolton song. You can't keep our budding romance down forever, Raezon.

Ssaliss

Celina said:

We're going to get angry admin faces if we don't get back on topic.

I always forget how many phantomspheres it takes to kill you.

Last time I tried combat as an alt: 1.

Rivius

I wanted to say I'm not taking shots at you nor opposing something because of haterage or whatever. Your comparison with me losing a sword isn't even analogous. The reason I say every class should have reasonable disadvantages is actually because I play from the perspective of a warrior instead of someone who can passively give an aff worse than ectoplasm to my entire enemy list on exit (or failed exit...), passively afflict with insanity and mental affs, passively transfix, passively sludge and still be able to cast power attacks for free. Maybe I'm biased or maybe all things are just not equal in Lusternia, but I think the possibility of losing ents is a small price to pay for having such a powerful offense.

Daedalion

You're completely bias. Though I take comfort in the fact that you'd hate researchers more if you actually had to fight them, since you can't kill theirs.

Shaddus

Yes, but Researchers afflictions from gems /= Illuminati afflictions from just the homunuculus, much less the rest of them. Not to mention that it's  possible to remotely move your mobs, especially the homunculus.

Cyndarin

I don't think you're taking shots at anyone. I think you have a vendetta against illuminati though that blows everything out of proportion.

Shaddus, stop with the fake combat knowledge.

Cyndarin

It's true researchers don't need their gems as much. Not because they are less powerful but because shatterplex is just a one button win.

Daedalion

<BLOCKQUOTE class=Quote>
<DIV class=QuoteAuthor><A href="/profile/Shaddus">Shaddus</A> said:</DIV>
<DIV class=QuoteText>Yes, but Researchers afflictions from gems /= Illuminati afflictions from just the homunuculus, much less the rest of them. Not to mention that it's  possible to remotely move your mobs, especially the homunculus.
<DIV><BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE>
<P><BR>You haven't been fighting any good researchers then.</P>
<P>The only mobs you can move are ribbachi (does nothing) and homunculus so really "mobs" should be mob. Would like to add that remotely moving your homunculus to attack is just asking for him to get one shotted since you can't return him till next balance. In which case you spend 10p to resummon or go back to vortex.</P>
<P>Researcher gems cost 0 power to put up, are ridiculously hard to kill with sever and even if you did waste your time killing them they would just put them back up and laugh at you.</P>
<P>This isn't a question about which has better afflictions. (I could argue that researcher has better offense and defense, I've played both. Illuminati ents are basicly just stay in the room passives.) This is about the differences in how hard it is to kill half your offense in under 10 seconds where researcher is the only guardian that doesn't have to deal with that.</P>

Shaddus

Celina, why can't you just love me?

Shedrin

Celina said:

It's true researchers don't need their gems as much. Not because they are less powerful but because shatterplex is just a one button win.

Ok I've been holding back from commenting as this argument is mostly pretty stupid and drama-filled...

But this statement is pretty ignorant of how Shatterplex/Timequake works. Shatterplex, when done, puts the target at massive timewarp, and has a 2s balance. During that two seconds, the target has ample time to focus/eat horehound down to untimequakeable timewarp levels. Thus, the Researcher is required to prepare an aeonlock before Shatterplexing in order to prevent the curing of the timewarp. 

The general stategy is this: 

Aeonfield 

Wait for power to regen to 8 

Active aeon 4-5 seconds before aeonfield hits to strip quicksilver

When aeonfield hits, do beastspit chansu (asthma) + malefactgem anorexia

Optionally follow up with malefactgem impatience

Shatterplex

Timequake

This combo is poison reliant, vulnerable to hindering and a person with really good curing can escape it 90% of the time (just ask Wobou how he does). Furthermore, the rubies themselves, accounting for the very first step of prepping the Shatterplex, are vulnerable to cure by movement, unlike other preparatory things such as twists, soulless rubs, astrology spheres, etc.

Ok, that's my two sovereigns.

Synkarin

Shedrin said:

Celina said:

It's true researchers don't need their gems as much. Not because they are less powerful but because shatterplex is just a one button win.

Ok I've been holding back from commenting as this argument is mostly pretty stupid and drama-filled...

But this statement is pretty ignorant of how Shatterplex/Timequake works. Shatterplex, when done, puts the target at massive timewarp, and has a 2s balance. During that two seconds, the target has ample time to focus/eat horehound down to untimequakeable timewarp levels. Thus, the Researcher is required to prepare an aeonlock before Shatterplexing in order to prevent the curing of the timewarp. 

The general stategy is this: 

Aeonfield 

Wait for power to regen to 8 

Active aeon 4-5 seconds before aeonfield hits to strip quicksilver

When aeonfield hits, do beastspit chansu (asthma) + malefactgem anorexia

Optionally follow up with malefactgem impatience

Shatterplex

Timequake

This combo is poison reliant, vulnerable to hindering and a person with really good curing can escape it 90% of the time (just ask Wobou how he does). Furthermore, the rubies themselves, accounting for the very first step of prepping the Shatterplex, are vulnerable to cure by movement, unlike other preparatory things such as twists, soulless rubs, astrology spheres, etc.

Ok, that's my two sovereigns.

That last bit is pretty much applicable to every class in the game, substitute poison resist for random factor and it is. What class isn't stopped by good hindering? the fact that you have a strategy that is rinse and repeat puts you in pretty easy shape to succeed, kind of like nihilists, you'll get it eventually

Cyndarin

I know exactly how it works, and though "one button win," might be a slight exaggeration, it's a very small one. All you have to do is hindering curing for TWO SECONDS. You give -passive aeon.- I guess I should have said 2 buttons. Maybe three. A second delay in curing aeon will kill you. Lol.

Cyndarin

(which you can do by giving wrong under blackout so the system takes a second or two longer to catch it. OH HEY you get that too. Lucky dog.)

Cyndarin

Aeon...not wrong.

Urfion

Celina: you know you can edit your posts, right? You don't have to make three in a row.

Shedrin

To clarify, I'm not saying Timequake is unviable nor underpowered kill method. But saying it is a one button win, or even three button win is incorrect.

If that hindering goes wrong for any reason, the whole combo must be repeated.

Many classes have a 'rinse and repeat' until it works. Even Shadowdancers. 

I disagree that blackout-aeon will significantly delay any worthy combat system.

Now, for the topic before Shatterplex, I actually agree that Researcher gems take too much effort to destroy. Personally, I think it'd be fair for gems to be ketherable in one hit, and for fae/other ents to not be crittable.

Cyndarin

All you need a one second delay of the cure. That's not significant. It doesn't need to be significant if the balance from shatterplex is 2 seconds. Looking over the actions needed, I'm pretty confident I could automate the process, so yeah. One or two buttons. Or three I guess.

Cyndarin

SD isn't the same version of rinse and repeat. There's no set combo that works on everyone. You use the final twist in conjuction with other strategies. It's not try the same thing over and over, because unlike shatterplex, the final twist doesn't garauntee they are in kill range at the end.

Shedrin

Celina said:

SD isn't the same version of rinse and repeat. There's no set combo that works on everyone. You use the final twist in conjuction with other strategies. It's not try the same thing over and over, because unlike shatterplex, the final twist doesn't garauntee they are in kill range at the end.

I don't think it should, but there should be ways to do it. I've talked about this with Nihta in the IRC. Obviously I can't test this, but I theorycrafted this combo for a Hexen SD:

7th twist

Beast Spit Chansu (asthma) + Doublewhammy Anorexia/Impatience

Lash

Toad

Assuming average curing, that'll potentially be 5s of delay in aeon after the stun is over, allowing you to get the Lash off and regain enough power for the Toading. Now I'm not sure if that will be enough mana drain including your passives and other prep you could do, but if it's not, I think that could be a place to look into for buffs.

And the 7th twist is really nice for getting a meteor off as well. The 4s stun ensures they'll be in the room as long as you summon the meteor smartly, and also allow you to do an attack timed with the Meteor at the end.

Cyndarin

<P>Astro SDs are the exception to the rule. That was very much rinse repeat (and super effective when done right), though you only got 2 attempts before you were out of willpower from spheres. Maybe three.</P>
<P>Edit: There are also the rare few that can just tank through it, and being hardcountered by ceilings, and the genearl 'blah' that is astrology.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>Yeah I've toyed with hexes. Because you can't track the global power timer sometimes you end up with the setup completed and not enough power to toad so you throw in something random. It also kind of requires wump, because lash is soooo sloooow.The big issue is that the savvy opponents have figured out they can just shield while aeon'd and then cure out. Which I have yet to counter.</P>

Ileein

Bloody bugged Talthos quest.

Ciaran

Celina said:

Yeah I've toyed with hexes. Because you can't track the global power timer sometimes you end up with the setup completed and not enough power to toad so you throw in something random. It also kind of requires wump, because lash is soooo sloooow.The big issue is that the savvy opponents have figured out they can just shield while aeon'd and then cure out. Which I have yet to counter.

Pooka sit

Shedrin

Celina said:

Astro SDs are the exception to the rule. That was very much rinse repeat (and super effective when done right), though you only got 2 attempts before you were out of willpower from spheres. Maybe three.

Edit: There are also the rare few that can just tank through it, and being hardcountered by ceilings, and the genearl 'blah' that is astrology.

 

Yeah I've toyed with hexes. Because you can't track the global power timer sometimes you end up with the setup completed and not enough power to toad so you throw in something random. It also kind of requires wump, because lash is soooo sloooow.The big issue is that the savvy opponents have figured out they can just shield while aeon'd and then cure out. Which I have yet to counter.

The combo I listed would be 9s delay. Enough to regain power. Shielding while aeoned is a problem for Researchers too. Pooka as Ciaran said might work, though of course you lose the ability to use it to drain a bit more mana, or order metawake off if you go for sleep. I think you could optimize the combo even further. I do wish I had enough money to make a ton of alts in all guilds to test everything, but alas.