It should never be in Mag's best interest to raise Marilynth. It should never be in Celest's best interest to raise the Ship of the Dead. It shouldn't be in Serenwilde's best interest to release Gromagh's hordes, and it shouldn't be in Glom's best interest to raise the veil in the hills. If it is, there's something wrong.
I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
It's a part of the world dynamic, though. Like when Serenwilde and Glomdoring worked together to bind Raziela, and afterwards, Magnagora and Celest working together to remove said binding. It's frustrating, sure, but it's a legitimate avenue of conflict.
It should never be in Mag's best interest to raise Marilynth. It should never be in Celest's best interest to raise the Ship of the Dead. It shouldn't be in Serenwilde's best interest to release Gromagh's hordes, and it shouldn't be in Glom's best interest to raise the veil in the hills. If it is, there's something wrong.
Are you asking why raising the spirit of Princess Marilynth, who was a Vernal Goddess in complete opposition to the Taint, ought to be bad for Magnagora?
I'm Lucidian. If I don't get pedantic every so often, I might explode.
While the living Princess Marilynth may have had the power to completely annihilate Magnagora, her current status as an incorporeal spirit clearly poses no threat -- in fact, she can be used as a cog for the Engine of Transformation, in a move that both desecrates her memory and lambasts the city of New Celest.
Or something. Seriously, there are many, many ways Magnagora can spin this in their favour, just as New Celest can spin anything in your favour if you really try. /arghpee
Mechanically speaking, there are many quests that are designed to prevent the completion of other quests, or quests that can be stolen from someone else. The Mirror of Tzaraziko is the one that I know best (being a Gaudiguchian). The Hand quest has a very real 'steal' component. It's a design.
I thought Marilynth being up stopped Mag killing spectres? The message says something about all the spirits on the isle flying up to meet her or something.
We DEFINITELY need to have some pretty severe consequences to leaving Marilynth up. Like random periodic afflictions to undead in tainted areas of the basin if she's left up for more than 4 months at a time. Couldn't have the same thing with Ladantine and the ship of the dead, though, since it can be made to be mechanically impossible to put him down.
We already have the damn spire up all the time, we don't need another debuff.
Don't get me wrong, I dislike 'quest griefing', too, but the matter has been discussed at length (multiple times) and the court of public opinion has ruled it legitimate.
Also, tweet: There are so many little things in Lusternia, I don't think it's possible to know everything everywhere everytime.
Are you asking why raising the spirit of Princess Marilynth, who was a Vernal Goddess in complete opposition to the Taint, ought to be bad for Magnagora?
I'm not asking why it should usually be bad. I'm asking why it should always be bad.
The entire sea battle seems an exercise in annoying Celest. Does anyone in Mag even care about Ladantine? He's a complete fail, and a merian. If it wasn't for Epic, the only time he'd ever get raised is when people felt like sticking it to Celest.
Anyway, I'm not sure why Celest is complaining so much about being quest-griefed, when they do the exact same thing to Mag all the time. And then we all point fingers at each other and say 'but they did it first'.
I think we should all agree to stop griefing quests. I am just doubtful that would ever happen.
Yeah, the bit you bolded there, Venty? That was a typo. It's NOT possible to keep him down so that he can't be raised. If you get the cay fouled and stay on it- keeping the elementals dead, and usually it only takes one or two to screw the ritual up- it becomes mechanically impossible to take down the ship of the dead. As in, no way, no how, no recourse. There really ought to be SOME kind of incentive not to do the enemy side of the epic quest just so that the other guy can't. There used to be, but they removed that.
Have equally nasty consequences for each side leaving things alone in the sea when the other guy's raised theirs, but in that case, the removal of the ship needs to be divorced from Lanikai entirely, and linked to a different mechanism, possibly similar to raising Ladantine and bringing him a bunch of fish.
Just so we are clear here, it is 'mechanically possible' to keep Marilynth up as well, by simply going into the Sea of Despair, and killing Ladantine each time. Killing him sets us back from dropping with each death, and the fishy bastard needs quite the amount of fish. From what ive seen, dropping the Ship is insanely simple, and I've seen people do it in an hour and less. All you do is genrun around getting the golden squids, with the advantage of Aquamancer water-immunity.
Secondly, you dont -have- to remove Ladantine. He does absolutely nothing to Celest other than deny the epic, like with us. The main reason you lot remove him to begin with is because "Ladantine is our enemy and is floating around our ocean". Frankly his ship is pretty ignorable. Here's something ironic, you're asking for punishments added for raising Ladantine and Marilynth as incentive, and yet, get this...
It was Celest that originally complained so hard to remove the original effects.
So yes, it is Celest's very own doing as to why the Epic's raised are ignorable. Frankly, I feel if the effects are put back, then we'll just have more complaining down the line of "Mag is trolling us with them". The problem isnt always the mechanics in place, sometimes it is incentive, or the lack there-of.
I'll say this, it is somewhat annoying that Lanikai is attached to your City's prophecy quests, and she is basically banishable with Cay. This is the only thing I feel has a slight disadvantage for Celest compared to, not only Mag, but all other Orgs. I've actually been thinking over this for few days now, and I have 2 simple solutions.
1. If mist lurkers are released, then Lanikai evacuates the sea to a cave located in the ocean. She wont be able to turn seawolves into dolphins (as is suppose to be the original effects of Cay). She will accept squids and whatever is needed for Celest's epic, saying it is the furtherest her powers can assist with at the time being. I frankly always wondered as to where the kelpies rush off to anyway.
2. Simply add someone in celest that can accept the item for the epic as well.
I was being <insert my usual expletive here> serious @Arcanis. They could flood and sink us with their tears of woe is me, we'll become Atlantis. Maglantis.
You guys have it easy, in my day, if you wanted to Epic Quest you had to fight your way through hordes of Shadowdancers with Choke to get some fae, only to discover you can't complete it cause the Demon Lords just got killed, so no one will let you have any essence for the spear.
Just saying, when I get my voice back I have a 100% legitimate RP to go and kill the orphans again while fully upholding the teachings of the Light. I will agree that you can spin....well, damn near anything (if you try hard enough) to fit your RP.
This does not discount my annoyance at having to do all this shit again, most likely to see the same outcome. I would love to see repercussions, but as Thalkros elegantly pointed out the last time this happened: Mag doesn't give a single rodent posterior, which doesn't surprise anyone. It seems the Engine's long past the point of choosing automatons over flesh, which is once more not a surprise.
The epic quest is something that's easily griefed and something that does potentially become an ordeal, but the reward is great and so is the feeling finally pulling through. It's been discussed a lot of times.
I feel about all this 'Celest did this, Celest did that, Mag did this, Mag did that' talk, though. People get angry at times, but after that, just let it go, please? Hardly always a whole community being bad. =((
Just saying, when I get my voice back I have a 100% legitimate RP to go and kill the orphans again while fully upholding the teachings of the Light. I will agree that you can spin....well, damn near anything (if you try hard enough) to fit your RP.
This does not discount my annoyance at having to do all this shit again, most likely to see the same outcome. I would love to see repercussions, but as Thalkros elegantly pointed out the last time this happened: Mag doesn't give a single rodent posterior, which doesn't surprise anyone. It seems the Engine's long past the point of choosing automatons over flesh, which is once more not a surprise.
girl, you recently went and killed marilynth yourself, not to mention went about raising Marani several times. Put those stained standards away.
I'll start caring when people stop complaining. It's embarassing. Can we have Hallifax or Glomdoring as archenemies instead? I'll say it once and I'll say it again. Celest has done as much bad as Magnagora, the difference is we don't complain about what they do. We get even.
FYI, the complaining isn't "Wahh, Magnagora is doing something to screw us over! They are big meanies and I am the biggest whiny baby.", its "The fact that doing the Celest Epic as a non-citizen is the best way to screw Celest over is stupid. Wouldn't it make more sense if Magnagora had to do something pro-Taint to fight Celest, instead of something ostensibly pro-Light?" That is, this:
While the living Princess Marilynth may have had the power to completely annihilate Magnagora, her current status as an incorporeal spirit clearly poses no threat -- in fact, she can be used as a cog for the Engine of Transformation, in a move that both desecrates her memory and lambasts the city of New Celest.
Or something. Seriously, there are many, many ways Magnagora can spin this in their favour, just as New Celest can spin anything in your favour if you really try. /arghpee
Is a really dumb plotline that nobody in Celest cares to dignify with a response. Because it strains (or should strain) everyone's disbelief that Altaira is setting the task of "Raise Marylinth for the Light" and then not counting it as accomplished if Magnagora does it for you out of spite? Or that Marylinth is somehow OK with being raised by Magnagora for the express purpose of spiting Celest? Neither of those should be true from an RP standpoint, but due to mechanics, that's just how it works.
Comments
06/30/2014 19:37 Silvanus channels the power of the Megalith of Doom for you, stripping you of your Vernal Ascendant status.......bastard!!
Why?
Anyway, I'm not sure why Celest is complaining so much about being quest-griefed, when they do the exact same thing to Mag all the time. And then we all point fingers at each other and say 'but they did it first'.
I think we should all agree to stop griefing quests. I am just doubtful that would ever happen.
Just so we are clear here, it is 'mechanically possible' to keep Marilynth up as well, by simply going into the Sea of Despair, and killing Ladantine each time. Killing him sets us back from dropping with each death, and the fishy bastard needs quite the amount of fish. From what ive seen, dropping the Ship is insanely simple, and I've seen people do it in an hour and less. All you do is genrun around getting the golden squids, with the advantage of Aquamancer water-immunity.
Secondly, you dont -have- to remove Ladantine. He does absolutely nothing to Celest other than deny the epic, like with us. The main reason you lot remove him to begin with is because "Ladantine is our enemy and is floating around our ocean". Frankly his ship is pretty ignorable. Here's something ironic, you're asking for punishments added for raising Ladantine and Marilynth as incentive, and yet, get this...
It was Celest that originally complained so hard to remove the original effects.
So yes, it is Celest's very own doing as to why the Epic's raised are ignorable. Frankly, I feel if the effects are put back, then we'll just have more complaining down the line of "Mag is trolling us with them". The problem isnt always the mechanics in place, sometimes it is incentive, or the lack there-of.
I'll say this, it is somewhat annoying that Lanikai is attached to your City's prophecy quests, and she is basically banishable with Cay. This is the only thing I feel has a slight disadvantage for Celest compared to, not only Mag, but all other Orgs. I've actually been thinking over this for few days now, and I have 2 simple solutions.
1. If mist lurkers are released, then Lanikai evacuates the sea to a cave located in the ocean. She wont be able to turn seawolves into dolphins (as is suppose to be the original effects of Cay). She will accept squids and whatever is needed for Celest's epic, saying it is the furtherest her powers can assist with at the time being. I frankly always wondered as to where the kelpies rush off to anyway.
2. Simply add someone in celest that can accept the item for the epic as well.
I frankly prefer the first solution.
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
I feel about all this 'Celest did this, Celest did that, Mag did this, Mag did that' talk, though. People get angry at times, but after that, just let it go, please? Hardly always a whole community being bad. =((
Vengeance for Mucklemarsh!
girl, you recently went and killed marilynth yourself, not to mention went about raising Marani several times. Put those stained standards away.
Did you want to hand me something?
Okay, you can!
Oh, look, it is shiny.
Did you need to hand me other things?
Hold on one moment sir!
I will return this second thing to you.
Now back to this first thing. Ah, look.
It's a very good, shiny thing that I needed.
Thank you!
I now have 1 item. I still need 654 more!
Vive l'apostrophe!
Is a really dumb plotline that nobody in Celest cares to dignify with a response. Because it strains (or should strain) everyone's disbelief that Altaira is setting the task of "Raise Marylinth for the Light" and then not counting it as accomplished if Magnagora does it for you out of spite? Or that Marylinth is somehow OK with being raised by Magnagora for the express purpose of spiting Celest? Neither of those should be true from an RP standpoint, but due to mechanics, that's just how it works.