Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
And had Aysidra previously revealed herself earlier, Tarkenton wouldn't have claimed he investigated Celina last night, instead he would have likely claimed he investigated someone else such as yourself, @Synkarin. Had he even claimed in a slightly different order, he'd potentially still be in the game and people would be ready to lynch at his command.
I'll also point out that what I meant by not considering other options is that you've had two rl days now maybe to discuss other possibilities and all I've seen is Sylandra dropping her vote off yet still kinda pushing for Tremula to be lynched, even though we know Tremula likely won't be able to respond. I'd even suggest this could have been in the hope that a few more people might jump on so that she could hammer Tremula, though now she's moved her vote back.
To answer @Kiradawea's question, I think one post per dayphase is a reasonable expectation. Given that it'd be a new rule, though, maybe not implement it until the next day? But would there be enough game left at that point to matter?
Also, in the interests of continued honesty, I did not use my power on anyone last night. No kill means either someone else had some protection going on, or perhaps confirms some other type of scum agenda.
Like, Sylandra is the last remaining scum, could have believed that Tremula might have been Vision, and knew people would be watching her so it would be better to take a non-scummy action than a scummy kill?
Cause you know... if Tremula had been revealed as vision, the vision would have been of Sylandra.
Also I am 100% certain that Tremula is not the vision-giver, and was 100% certain of this yesterday. I believe I've stated this before, and I believe @Synkarin knows why that line of reasoning makes no sense due to the information gleaned yesterday. I would dearly love for the vision giver to explicitly come forward because I know who you are and it kills me that I can't announce my reasoning without outing someone else's role.
Honestly, @Saran, if you dislike the fact that my branch of information makes me disagree with the information you refuse to present until tomorrow, that's not my fault. I can only say what I know, and I have stated it ample times. Lynching me would just confirm that everything I have said in this thread is true. I'm happy lynching Tremula because I'm not convinced she can bring anything to this discussion to alleviate my suspicion of her. I'll freely admit it. Of all the options left, she remains the most suspicious person to me. Followed, perhaps, by Saran in light of his recent slew of defensive posts.
That said, I wish the vision had been of me. It'd be nice to be validated.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Yeah @Saran - the reason that I stated Sylandra or Tremula were the only two unknowns left is because it's been deduced who the vision guy is, and it's neither of those two.
I have highlighted the logic behind me not revealing information in the previous day phase.
You're becoming more and more aggressive as the day moves on and it gets closer to the time we could expect @Tremula to return and actually roleclaim. Which makes me start to wonder if you've made a logical leap about what roles could make me defend someone so much.
Because if you have made that leap, then you would be very scared of Tremula's role claim.
And you know what, screw it. I'm done with the game
Tremula's actually the investigator. Yes, I'm aware they didn't speak up yesterday, and yes it's exactly what Tarkenton said yesterday. So go ahead and lynch them because you can't see you're being manipulated.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Thank you for sharing the information! I'm sorry you feel you have to quit the game. That wasn't my intention. I hope you realize we are all playing Mafia with the intent of doing the best with what they have, and that's certainly been true in my case. It's been nothing personal, and as for me, I've taken nothing you've said personally.
That said, hm!
[deletes her 300+ word post that is no longer relevant because you gave Tremula's info]
If Tremula is the investigator, then... What has she been doing! I have questions. It strikes me as odd that a town-friendly investigator wouldn't add much to the general discussion. It is odd too that we'd have two pro-town investigators in the form of the vision-dude and the Tremula-investigator. Am I alone in feeling this way?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
(I'm exhausted from a big weekend so not quite certain I'm following the conversation well. Was Siam's image post not a role claim? I kind of took it as a role claim at first.)
(I'm exhausted from a big weekend so not quite certain I'm following the conversation well. Was Siam's image post not a role claim? I kind of took it as a role claim at first.)
(I think it might be, but it's hard to know for certain. I had to google to be certain it meant what I thought it did.)
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
If they've just been monitoring and getting town then there's no reason to speak up until called out. And I really just wanted Tremula to be able to confirm the role and then spit out everything they'd done quickly so that if people don't believe it, it's still there.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Are Saran and Riluna part of the same angsty mafia club?
Why are you even rage quitting?
Whatever, I'm not going to get into the obnoxiousness of that entire situation right now.
All signs pointed to Tremula -until- you said she was investigator. That's just common sense. Now it's time for Tremula to speak up and tell us what she's been doing, which is now being forced because you said something.
Potential targets if Tremula does check out - Ssaliss, Shaddus, Ayisdra?
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Also, I'm not sure what makes me scummier than anyone else around?
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
The ability to lock people out of their abilities isn't inherently townie, and your claim didn't absolve you of the original suspicions that were noted. Your reactions to my very first line of questioning remains really odd to me.
I will say that any power can be scummy. Remember, this is not a normal mafia game. We're how far in with no town kills other than lynches? We would be silly to assume powers should be town.
That being said, I think it more likely that Ssaliss's power is a scum power than Tremula's if I had to choose between the two. Ssaliss's explination is that he is most likely town because we hadn't had any town kills up to that point and he had been protecting himself. We now know that story doesn't hold much water since we are this far in and I doubt the mafia would target a jailer three days in a row. So the pseudo confirmation of Ssaliss's allegiance is all but null and void at this point.
The reverse of that is he has been protecting himself to prevent anyone from uncovering that he is mafia. His ability will prevent anyone from uncovering his true identity so long as he protects himself consistently, and it also prevents us from winning unless we lynch him. He can claim town all day while being mafia, and we will never have a way of confirming it. It puts him in a uniquely difficult situation to deal with. Do we risk lynching a jailer that is only protecting himself, or do we risk the confirmation lynch on someone we know we will never be able to confirm and could very well be using is power to hide that he is mafia indefinitely.
Also, the bedazzled ferret or whatever that visited me without explanation continues to bother me.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
The other question is: if he is town, how much value does he have as an unknown variable that we can't confirm, and is only using his power to preserve himself, thus making it that much easier for mafia to target one of us (like investigator or vision man). I don't think we lose much by risking a lynch on an jailer that is only using it for self preservation. ESPECIALLY if he could be doing so to hide his identity, which is a very real possibility
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
The other possibility is that Ssaliss is not a jailer, and the claim is a lie. He could just have a power to prevent people from acting on him at night which is a very real possibility for a scum power.
Okay, point one: I never really claimed I was the reason town had no deaths. I said it explained why there have been no deaths, if we assume they have done nothing but targetting me. And we do know that they have targetted me at least one night out of these four; the night they broke through my protection. Even I have a hard time believing that they targetted me all four nights so far, unless they're obsessed with me for some reason, but at least one night is confirmed among them, and I'd wager they've targetted me at least once before that too.
Point two: It's pretty hard to say anything about me protecting myself just to keep you from finding out I'm mafia. I mean, I haven't, but it's hard to prove it. What I can say, though, is that I said I believed Sylandra was town before she claimed, and I was one of the first to vote for Tarkenton (for little good reason other than I had no real objections to it; at that point, he was as good a target as anyone). If I were scum, I wouldn't jump at it that early, but rather keep quiet and bide my time. Also, if I were scum, I wouldn't have spent my time protecting myself, but rather blocking towns (the odds of being randomly investigated would've been pretty minimal).
Oh, and re: the ferret: I believe someone (I can't remember who) drew a link between it and Ermine? It wouldn't be too far of a leap to think it was spying in one form or another. It doesn't seem to be an investigator power though (at least not strictly).
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
You certainly implied you were the reason, or among the reasons the town had no deaths.
I don't know. Randomly naming Tarkenton first is not much of a defense when there was no real risk of him being actually lynched just because you, by your own admission, pointed at him without a reason. If you were scum, you could have just been using that as a set up for a later defense (like now), knowing the chances of random finger pointing wouldn't actually result in a significant threat to the mafia. The issue with that defense is your explanation of it.
I also don't believe your time would be better spent blocking random townies for the reasons I've already stated.
That being said, they broke through your protection? Did I miss that post somewhere?
Night one, no one died. Siam and Celina used their powers, which if that pair (Celina is the one who is confirming Siam's apparent side) is scum, this would mean Tarkenton would have attacked. The attack isn't specified as a kill but Allyriane's power protects from poison, this would imply that poison is the kill method. I'd suggest the first target was Ssaliss
Night two, no one died again. Siam showed his vision power to Celina and she tracked Ssaliss. If Ssaliss was the target night one this could have been a test, as well as an opportunity for them to out his power to the game (as happened the following day). Notably here, this would mean that Siam could have investigated someone else that night and just filled Celina in during scumchat. For the kill this night, I'd suggest Allyriane and that she was protected by her x-shot.
Night Three, Azureus power protected Celina, Siam was blocked by Sylandra, and no night kill occurred. It would be unreasonable to expect that the mafia would miss three nights in a row given all the claims out.
Unless Tarkenton used his lightningrod ability on Ssaliss, this is his night power and it could be used multiple times, in this case Siam might have been the attacker. If the attack had gone through, Celina could provide the information she'd received on night 2, because it didn't she didn't claim anything.
Last night, with their best chance at getting through blocks in the game gone. They needed information to make someone appear scummy, they both target Tremula knowing no kill would happen (As Sylandra pointed out previously, you generally can't kill AND use your night power). Giving me the night vision, it's a risky play but they could probably expect that it'd end up with the town preparing to lynch me and the person I am "defending", especially given that if Siam did target someone other than himself on night two then they still have that claim up their sleeve. If it didn't go that way then Celina could just claim the vision from earlier (given the high probability that the person is still in the game) calling me scum and pushing for the lynch.
Now that everything has settled, what we see is that Celina has already launched an attack on the Jailer, which is interesting. Because it's potentially the one town role the scum can't actually deal with using a night kill any more. She's not giving any logical reason for why it should be Ssaliss, she has made zero attempts to outline how or why no mafia kills have occurred, and well... yeah if Ssaliss was scum, he'd be trying to block townies, as opposed to what he's potentially done which is possibly prevent multiple mafia kills.
And... well simply put, I'm not dead nor is she. Given the way this game has gone, a mafia trying to get me lynched would kill her off and the town would likely not let me see the next day and vice versa. Plus, again... if Tremula didn't investigate Celina, then two people visited Celina on night one (one of which is likely Siam who, if scum, wouldn't show up twice), and Celina has potentially confirmed that night chats show up to tracking when she tracked the siblings.
I was hoping I wouldn't have to reveal this, since it puts me in a rather delicate situation, but frankly, anything is better than just going back to the same old non-constructive discussions.
I was the one being attacked during the night.
Yes, I jailed myself. We already know I wasn't blocked. That leaves one option: The attacker used an attack that goes through protection. How do I know this, and not that the attack simply failed because I jailed myself? Because A) it doesn't fit with the pattern (I wasn't told Celina targetted me, nor have we seen any kind of sign of a fight during the other two nights). I survived because apparently, being the oldest, meanest, scariest chimaera also came with a one-shot nightkill protection that I wasn't even aware of. In hindsight, the fluff kinda hinted at it, from being an old bodyguard to being the first "monster-type" chimaera to being one of the oldest chimaera still alive (and I plan on continuing that trend). I very much doubt it will kick in a second time though, given how various things looked.
Of course, this means one of two things:
A) The scum have a way to bypass protection. Of course, if they had, then I'd expect them to have used it before now. Also, I probably wouldn't have been a prime target, since I am little to no threat to them at this point (yes, I can block people, but at this stage I'm more likely to target a friendly).
Someone else have a way to bypass protection. This, to me, seems the more likely scenario. Couple with the fact that this happened the very night after my argument with Shaddus, and Shaddus using some kind of night action on Ayisdra (I still don't buy that all they did was talk), I think it's very possible that Ayisdra has a night action that can only be used with the support of his brother (and, most likely, vice versa) and that it can kill through protection, and possibly even through detection (the attack was very stealthy).
Turns out I was wrong on who had the power to bypass protection, since we lynched a scum the very same night.
A glance at the votes seems to show Celina and Siam have maintained the votes on Tremula as has Sylandra who I also have some what of a FOS on.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I guess it boils down to, why has no one died?
I've been willing to embrace the jailer theory because I don't think my roleblocker skills have been that successful! And I know we lost the protector. Unless we have a different style of mafia game, it's the only viable explanation for me regarding why no one has died every. Single. Night.
Remember Ssaliss has claimed being attacked one night, too. And with Tarkenton's skill revealed, I believe Tark used it on Ssaliss. All signs point to Ssaliss being town, for me.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
I'll also point out that what I meant by not considering other options is that you've had two rl days now maybe to discuss other possibilities and all I've seen is Sylandra dropping her vote off yet still kinda pushing for Tremula to be lynched, even though we know Tremula likely won't be able to respond.
I'd even suggest this could have been in the hope that a few more people might jump on so that she could hammer Tremula, though now she's moved her vote back.
Like, Sylandra is the last remaining scum, could have believed that Tremula might have been Vision, and knew people would be watching her so it would be better to take a non-scummy action than a scummy kill?
Cause you know... if Tremula had been revealed as vision, the vision would have been of Sylandra.
You're becoming more and more aggressive as the day moves on and it gets closer to the time we could expect @Tremula to return and actually roleclaim. Which makes me start to wonder if you've made a logical leap about what roles could make me defend someone so much.
Because if you have made that leap, then you would be very scared of Tremula's role claim.
Tremula's actually the investigator. Yes, I'm aware they didn't speak up yesterday, and yes it's exactly what Tarkenton said yesterday. So go ahead and lynch them because you can't see you're being manipulated.
If they've just been monitoring and getting town then there's no reason to speak up until called out. And I really just wanted Tremula to be able to confirm the role and then spit out everything they'd done quickly so that if people don't believe it, it's still there.
Point two: It's pretty hard to say anything about me protecting myself just to keep you from finding out I'm mafia. I mean, I haven't, but it's hard to prove it. What I can say, though, is that I said I believed Sylandra was town before she claimed, and I was one of the first to vote for Tarkenton (for little good reason other than I had no real objections to it; at that point, he was as good a target as anyone). If I were scum, I wouldn't jump at it that early, but rather keep quiet and bide my time. Also, if I were scum, I wouldn't have spent my time protecting myself, but rather blocking towns (the odds of being randomly investigated would've been pretty minimal).
Oh, and re: the ferret: I believe someone (I can't remember who) drew a link between it and Ermine? It wouldn't be too far of a leap to think it was spying in one form or another. It doesn't seem to be an investigator power though (at least not strictly).