We should not be too afraid to vote for people who end up being town. We should not be afraid of acting on our suspicions, even if our suspicions are ultimately wrong.
Our vote is the ultimate power role. Absolutely put thought into how you use it, but don't be afraid to use it. That some scum will try to slip by is not the end of the world, and some probably will try. That's mafia. It does not prevent us from hunting them down later. It should not prevent us from trying to lynch the scum we have already noticed trying to work against us.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
It's not that you're disagreeing with me. You're disagreeing with common sense. You're actively trying to push an agenda that is harmful.
What you're doing is fundamentally scummy, and you're also persistent about it. It has nothing to do with me.
It would be easier for you to understand if you were innocent, and not just trying to argue to keep yourself alive.
Vote: Synkarin
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Wait. Questions: do you think Synkarin and I are both scum?
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
*Question
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
BTW I honestly think this is all infighting from opinionated towns folk, and the scum are better served just sitting quietly and letting it happen. It would be an odd move for Synkarin to make himself such a loud target and go after Saran before anyone else for agreeing with Riluna after multiple people (myself, Tarkenton) and stated Riluna is probably a crazy townie.
Which is why I say roll the dice on a random non poster.
Personally, I'm nearly certain Synkarin is. I believe you very likely could be, but even if innocent, are at best currently acting against town's interests, and that is bad enough.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
BTW I honestly think this is all infighting from opinionated towns folk, and the scum are better served just sitting quietly and letting it happen. It would be an odd move for Synkarin to make himself such a loud target and go after Saran before anyone else for agreeing with Riluna after multiple people (myself, Tarkenton) and stated Riluna is probably a crazy townie.
Which is why I say roll the dice on a random non poster.
It could also be a plot the scum have made among themselves. Fight each other during the day to the point one of them gets lynched, shows that they are scum which in turn could let any suspect on the other go away.
You haven't made a single point that is common sense. You also haven't refuted any point I've made.
This isn't some magical formula that's guaranteed to root out scum, it's a shot in the dark that you're hitting the right person.
I absolutely am innocent, and am somehow being villianized for not wanting to lynch an innocent person because cutting off our own foot before we think it's infected is a really dumb idea.
Maybe I am arguing too much and I should just sit in the corner and let you off us two by two. One lynch during the day and one murder each night.
I'll forgive Ally for her zealousness for now, we'll see if that holds for the future.
Gotta say that yeah, causing a huge stink like Synkarin and Saran are makes it very unlikely that they're scum. I'd assume that if one or the other is lynched, it makes an aha go off if they aren't scum, the other gets lynched, then we're down two townies and stuck deep in the cacky. I'm all for choosing a random non-poster that hasn't provided anything meaningful.
You haven't made a single point that is common sense. You also haven't refuted any point I've made.
This isn't some magical formula that's guaranteed to root out scum, it's a shot in the dark that you're hitting the right person.
I absolutely am innocent, and am somehow being villianized for not wanting to lynch an innocent person because cutting off our own foot before we think it's infected is a really dumb idea.
Maybe I am arguing too much and I should just sit in the corner and let you off us two by two. One lynch during the day and one murder each night.
Lynching, even if it's an innocent person, is in no way similar to cutting off our own foot. You know what is? No-lynching. Then arguing, at every turn, for subduing the vote.
It's common sense because this is literally the only community where I have ever experienced people who do not understand it to be basic mafia game theory. I'm not interested in refuting your argument point-by-point, because anyone who wants to look can see it plainly for themselves. I'm more interested in keeping our voices active.
So what if Synkarin is drawing attention to himself? Think about what actually happens to us when we do what he's arguing for.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Wait, it's common sense 'because everyone does it?'
Isn't that the same peer pressure saying you use to get kids to do drugs with you in middle school?
I've never played a mafia game in this kind of forum previously, but none of the arguments you've presented have been that convincing.
I'm just saying that having 6 town/4 scum is a better ratio than 5 town/4 scum, unless you're going to argue that the difference between 40% and 45% is really that significant when it comes to lynching on hunches, because I'd rather lynch people based on a little more than a hunch.
This is assuming there is 4 scum (which was this confirmed anywhere or just random guess?)
Personally, I'm nearly certain Synkarin is. I believe you very likely could be, but even if innocent, are at best currently acting against town's interests, and that is bad enough.
Lol okay. Your justifications for your choices (I think this is your fourth vote so far?) are completely wild, almost as wild as the "if you lynch me then you're implicated as scum" talk from earlier. Your suspicion of me basically hinges on the belief that I (and everyone else) buys into the google search methodology you're pushing so hard. Incidentally, it's not just Synkarin and I that have made comments against it.
It's basically you an Saran piggy backing off one another and bouncing between Synkarin and myself. It's really....odd.
But the fact remains that I still don't think you are scum and I don't agree with, what is apparently your tactic, that we should just lynch people we think could be townies but it's okay because they disagree with me on this one issue about day 0 lynches...that has passed. That, somehow, what you perceive as acting against the town's best interest on day 0 translates into an ongoing attempt to disrupt townie productivity. I think you should let it go.
It's not just because they disagree with me, and today has not passed. Let's actually try to win.
I'm not saying lynch people we think could be townies. Everybody could be townies. Everybody could be scum. That's not enough to influence any decision in any sensible way, especially when it leads us to inaction. I'm saying we need to actually act, and accept that we could be wrong. Because we still gain by being wrong!
I'm growing frustrated, because this is seriously unbelievable that I even have to explain this stuff (let alone "defend" it) and why it's really very very very very very bad for town. It's not like it's actually that difficult to understand.
I'm going to step back from the game for the next day or so to breathe. I hope we'll hear more from more voices.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Okay, so here's my thoughts on the discussion so far:
Synkarin vs. Riluna: I honestly think they both are town. I can definitely see both sides of this argument (like Synkarin, I'd love to be able to hold off on lynching to make sure we don't lynch town), but I do realise that we'll never have that much information, and we can't just sit around forever and wait for it, since that would basically mean the scum picks us off one by one (which is Rilunas point of view).
Celina: It seems she basically agrees with Riluna to some degree in that we need to take action today. Which, by the way, I completely agree with.
Saran seems to have set a tent up at Camp Riluna, and basically uses the same arguments.
I summary... I'm honestly not sure where I stand here, other than that I agree that we have to do something. The question is really only what we should do, and who we should do it to. If I had to pick one of the four above, I'd probably vote for Saran, but that'd be a gut-feeling at best; I wouldn't really be able to back it up properly.
So... yeah. That's where I stand, basically.
My thoughts on numbers:
First off, I'm going to assume there are four mafia around. Three seems too few, and five seems too many. Again, nothing to back this up, save for a gut feeling.
Second, I'm going to assume there is no mass murderer. I find it a bit too unlikely that both the mafia and a mass murderer were somehow prevented from killing on night one.
This means that town has eleven loyals, and there are four scum. I believe Riluna also used those numbers, but I do agree that they seem likely. It's far from confirmed, of course (and odds are it won't be until we've killed all of the scum), but it seems plausible enough.
I'll withhold voting for now though, mostly because I still haven't quite made up my mind.
On numbers - with 15 of us, and assuming there is about 25% being mafia, this gives is 4 scum and 11 non-scum. I use non-scum because we could have a third-party that is working against both the town and mafia. In a game this size, I wouldn't be surprised if this is true.
On suspects - Synkarin and Riluna, I do honestly think this could be some plot to distract us from one of them being scum (with the assumption they both are). Although I could chalk this up as just a playstyle. Xeria has been quiet, as I said before. From the looks of it, she hasn't been around since the 17th either. Who knows what this could mean. But on the other hand, being quiet doesn't mean you are scum. Being vocal is just as much of a tell.
I'm not reading half of these posts, because it seems like 70% of them are Riluna and Synkarin pointing fingers at each other and calling each other scum for pointing fingers. For all we know, they're both scum who are colluding to throw suspicion off if they oppose each other.
FOS: Riluna and Synkarin
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
It just generally means I'm staring really hard at these two because I think they are suspicious. No real power or effect.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Wait, so besides being mad at people for not wanting to lynch, who are Riluna and Saran advocating we lynch? Just the people who don't want to lynch?
Yes, that's basically the strategy. I think the reasoning is that she's so convinced by whatever articles/forums/whatever she's reading on the interwebz that no lynching is always a scummy move that anyone who votes to no lynch day 0 is 1) scum who understands and agrees with her position or 2) oblivious and deserves to die because they are hurting us all.
You all have no idea how badly I want to get involved in this discussion. Not from a "current game" perspective, but purely in terms of debating lynch vs. no lynch.
Clearly I should have signed up for this game.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
We've made a few. I've made a few myself. So, there's that. Incidentally, your most notable counter to them so far has been "google it."
I actually went and looked up some random discussions about your argument, and there certainly is a vague consensus about it, with some odd trends in poor reasoning. It was actually asserted across numerous threads, which Riluna has parroted, that the only way to gain information is to lynch on the first opportunity and examine the bandwagons. Even though it's stated, as if fact, we also know you, Riluna, don't believe it because you-even with a no lynch-believe you have information. The whole argument around it is fairly self defeating, IMHO. The methods with we can divine information from are numerous.
The math is sound, no doubt, and that remains consistent through the threads. The threads all discuss vanilla mafia games, however. It is, quite literally, a blind gamble to lynch the first day, and whether it actually benefits in the long run is another blind gamble. You're just playing the odds against numerous unknown variables that could, quite literally, rewrite the odds at any given time.
I'd go as far to say that, after reading these threads, there are some compelling arguments as to why a no lynch can be considered a bad idea. I don't believe it's that black and white however, and situationally applied. Lusternia games tend to be power heavy for pizzazz and interest.
Comments
I'll forgive Ally for her zealousness for now, we'll see if that holds for the future.
Gotta say that yeah, causing a huge stink like Synkarin and Saran are makes it very unlikely that they're scum. I'd assume that if one or the other is lynched, it makes an aha go off if they aren't scum, the other gets lynched, then we're down two townies and stuck deep in the cacky. I'm all for choosing a random non-poster that hasn't provided anything meaningful.
Vote: Tremula
Synkarin vs. Riluna: I honestly think they both are town. I can definitely see both sides of this argument (like Synkarin, I'd love to be able to hold off on lynching to make sure we don't lynch town), but I do realise that we'll never have that much information, and we can't just sit around forever and wait for it, since that would basically mean the scum picks us off one by one (which is Rilunas point of view).
Celina: It seems she basically agrees with Riluna to some degree in that we need to take action today. Which, by the way, I completely agree with.
Saran seems to have set a tent up at Camp Riluna, and basically uses the same arguments.
I summary... I'm honestly not sure where I stand here, other than that I agree that we have to do something. The question is really only what we should do, and who we should do it to. If I had to pick one of the four above, I'd probably vote for Saran, but that'd be a gut-feeling at best; I wouldn't really be able to back it up properly.
So... yeah. That's where I stand, basically.
My thoughts on numbers:
First off, I'm going to assume there are four mafia around. Three seems too few, and five seems too many. Again, nothing to back this up, save for a gut feeling.
Second, I'm going to assume there is no mass murderer. I find it a bit too unlikely that both the mafia and a mass murderer were somehow prevented from killing on night one.
This means that town has eleven loyals, and there are four scum. I believe Riluna also used those numbers, but I do agree that they seem likely. It's far from confirmed, of course (and odds are it won't be until we've killed all of the scum), but it seems plausible enough.
I'll withhold voting for now though, mostly because I still haven't quite made up my mind.
On suspects - Synkarin and Riluna, I do honestly think this could be some plot to distract us from one of them being scum (with the assumption they both are). Although I could chalk this up as just a playstyle. Xeria has been quiet, as I said before. From the looks of it, she hasn't been around since the 17th either. Who knows what this could mean. But on the other hand, being quiet doesn't mean you are scum. Being vocal is just as much of a tell.
FOS: Riluna and Synkarin
It just generally means I'm staring really hard at these two because I think they are suspicious. No real power or effect.
Clearly I should have signed up for this game.