Fine @Riluna, why don't you vote for Saran with me, put your money where your mouth is.
I've stated my reasons why he's scum, you can't reasonably disprove them with anything other than your 'feeling', his latest argument just confirms my feelings that he's siding with you to avoid scrutiny. According to you, even if he flips townie, we still gleam information.
and Yes, I would rather lynch nobody than lynch a townie, I'm not afraid of someone dying, certainly not scum, but I don't want to help them out.
Honestly, we're generating a lot of talk, but not a lot of actual information aside from a huge rift between camp Celina and camp Riluna. Which is just growing wider.
I still stand by our day 1 no-lynch not being a bad idea because we had generated at least some discussion, and now we've had a night phase. There's more information available, though revealing it might be dangerous.
That said, I refuse to believe that no one used a power last night, or that those powers revealed bupkis, just that it's more beneficial for whoever has that information to not be forthright just yet.
So, for the moment I'm looking hard at @Xeria or one of the other silent people, if only because they aren't contributing much beyond body-count for now anyway.
@Synkarin as this argument is showing, even when the town is arguing rather simple concepts about the game itself they can't trust each other.
You ask us to wait, to be afraid, the only real information we get by following your "strategy" is held by those who might have night roles which in turn relies on the town believing those people when they actually claim. This is one of the reasons why the investigator is a potential danger to the town if left alive, if they claim early and lynch the scum then that's great, if they die that sucks but at least we know they're out of the game, but worst case... if they wait and bide their time then it becomes easier for the mafia to claim especially when the numbers are smaller especially if it's close to lynch or close.
As @Celina has shown, yeah if we lynch someone there is a possibility that person could have the vengeful power giving them a kill in response or perhaps the SuperSaint power that kills the person who placed the last vote to lynch, there's also the roles that need to get lynched to win, or they need lynch someone specific to win. There could also be people who are immune from lynching or night kills, there could be a survivor who just needs to live til the end or it's variant that just needs to live a certain number of days to win for themselves.
The wiki identifies over 140 different possible roles before going to much into variants (such as the cop who can be sane, insane, paranoid, naive, or just random). There are some roles that we can potentially rule out, based on bits and pieces that I've noticed.
But ultimately, one of the best reasons to lynch someone, even if they're town is that it actually gives them the opportunity to role claim. If we get close to lynching a blocker, they can tell us who they've blocked. If we get close to lynching a cop, they can tell us about their investigations. We might still kill them, especially at this stage of the game. But the moment we do, everything they've said is validated, this still occurs on day one even though night roles haven't come into effect yet just thanks to how people act and are (or aren't) thinking on the day. This doesn't happen at night, if your investigator dies at night, all of their information dies with them.
The last paragraph is also why it's considered scummy to put the last vote in on a lynch before that person has adequate time to respond to the impending lynch.
Like I said, Lynches for the Lynch god. Either we get scads of great information from this and everyone shuts up about it, or we don't and everyone shuts up about it.
I would like to note that people are a lot more interested in voting for Saran than just voting in general on any previous vote. That's very interesting.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
That's entirely up to you, @Saran, if you feel like that kind of information is or is not worth it to reveal, or if you even have it. Only you are going to be able to decide what you do from here. I could wake up tomorrow and find Kiradawea has the majority lynch, for all the sense this game is making.
I'm sorry if it has to be you, if it really does have to be you @Saran. You're practically the only other person in this game actively responding to real reason, but if it helps to wake people the fuck up, all the better. They clearly aren't going to wilfully admit they were wrong in the first place, or at least resist being put in a situation where they could understand why what happened day 1 is idiocy... I really hope you do understand, especially if things turn out badly and I don't have the chance to say it again.
Mayor Steingrim, the Grand Schema says to you, "Well, as I recall you kinda leave a mark whereever you go."
Again, while I know that I'm town and it would be better for me to not die as opposed to one of the scum. I also accept that if my lynching will provide the town with the first bit of information that it's had all game. Because that's how the game works.
I also accept that if my lynching will provide the town with the first
bit of information that it's had all game then it's not entirely a waste and can help the town to win. Because that's how the game
works.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Unfortunately, Riluna, just because you aren't reading other people's reasoning doesn't mean they aren't providing it. At this point you've demonstrated that no matter what we say, you're just going to repeat the same comments back to us that make us sound ridiculous (rely on powers to win, avoid lynching anyone ever, etc) even though we never said them. I think, if you are going to sit on your high horse about your l33t mafia skills, you should at least be a master of the first requirement of a mafia game: reading.
vote: Saran
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
I'm also deeply interested in to what information will be provided from Saran's lynch that is new to Riluna. That thing that proves she's been right this whole time, as she's rather blatantly implying will happen.
Saran's talk about roleclaiming is dubious as well. I wouldn't expect you to claim a role until the noose was tightening around your neck, because if you were 100% town, why wouldn't you do whatever you can to prevent lynching someone innocent? Sure, you might be offed during the night, but you'd at least make it to the night and we could possibly lynch someone else that day.
For all the talk about common sense and this is the only way to play, at this point, we know there is only one person that knows if Saran is 100% town or not and that's Saran, and this lackadaisical attitude toward being lynched just confirms to me further that he's really scum.
My attitude is mostly based on the fact that... I've spent eight hours at work today waiting for the votes to build up, I'm about to go to bed now and have rather valid concerns about your mafia friends jumping on your lynch wagon to kill me. I'm currently two votes away from being lynched so it is always a valid concern.
I have spent this day trying to encourage the town to win this game, as opposed to your consistent attempts to appeal to peoples emotions by making them fear killing an innocent. Indeed, the fact that you suggest that it is better for someone with a role to make it to the night SO THEY CAN BE KILLED BY THE MAFIA WITHOUT SHARING WHAT THEY KNOW, implies to me that you value those with powers not using them to help the town, which fits with my expectation that you are scum.
It is better for the town if someone with a night power dies to a lynch, it gives them the opportunity to role claim and share knowledge that is validated when we find out their role. The fact that you willfully ignore these rather simple facts about how the games works and attempt to encourage the town to follow you shows that you are scum because there is rarely if ever a time that a role should be claimed except before a lynch, if these people instead die unexpectedly in the night every action they have taken is not shared, is not added to the public knowledge that the town have. Instead the mafia silence them before they can speak.
Which, just seems very much like what you and Celina want.
You're taking things out of context. I certainly wouldn't expect you to roleclaim unless it was to save your neck from being lynched. Because as I've said all along, lynching innocent people is bad and we shouldn't want to do it. You could also share what you've learned before going into the night.
The situation comes down to two scenarios:
If you get lynched, There's a 0% chance you survive, no questions asked.
If you roleclaim and don't get lynched, there's a >0% chance that you aren't killed that night due to other people's powers. Meaning you could learn more. Yes, you might still die, but there's a chance that you won't.
Which then it falls to this point -> It is always always better to roleclaim to prevent being lynched. I'd take the >0% chance over 0% chance to survive any day of the week. The fact that you can't see this tells me it's because you don't have a significant role to claim, because you're scum.
And you want to sit here and say that -I'm- ignoring common sense
Well then, if it will appease the puppet master Synkarin and let me go to sleep without having to worry about his minions killing me without passing on information to the town
I am a motion detector and last night I watched Celina. As far as I am aware, this role sees the number of actions attempted on the target and if the target attempted an action of their own with the only thing interrupting it being a complete protection from night powers.
Interestingly, Celina was visited by two people last night and also has a night action. Given numbers, it seems highly likely that Celina was involved in the night kill last night (well lack thereof), either she had a protector last night who now has an idea that she's town... and therefore could be innocent. On the other hand Celina could have been blocked last night, worse she could have been investigated.
I say worse because if blocking Celina blocked the night kill, there is every possibility that she is the Godfather, the leader of the mafia, and this role by default appears innocent to cops (another reason why they can be misleading). This role often pops up in Lusternian mafia to also facilitate communication with the mod.
Of course, the two leading the bandwagon to lynch me will try to deflect the rather low chance that Celina could be targeted by not only the mafia but also a protector as opposed to the far more likely chance that the blocker lucked onto the right target, a target that attempted a scummy strategy on day one no less, one who has drawn the attention of three players. Again, remembering that while there are two others targeting Celina at night, they would not know until perhaps now.
I should probably also take this chance to highlight that Synkarin's stance on the matter really only flared up in response to it being called out, immediately leaping to the defense of Celina (quite literally, his vote on me was the post directly after I directed my attention to her)
There is always the possibility that Celina is not scum (however low), Synkarin seems far more likely to be scum, and unless someone else has night info to the contrary he's probably the best next target. Despite how much everyone likes lynching Celina (a fact that she decided to remind us all of in the third? post of the game, perhaps to make people feel bad about lynching her?) it can be done any time, just remember to flood her with the gifs she is so fond of while you do so.
While not forgeting, the mafia know who the scum are. They will not lynch their friends unless there is some benefit to it and they can also help the townies (because they know who they are) creating a seeming of innocence for themselves when all the people they work with die and just happen to be town.
While I am not one vote away from lynch (the noose tight around my neck), at this point it seems unlikely that Synkarin's bandwagon will turn around without this claiming, enjoy I am off to sleep.
I don't really get the whole "Celina is the Godfather" argument. I thought that the mafia could generally pick one of them to do the killing, in order to prevent people from completely blocking all mafia actions? Or does the argument come from the assumption that Celina was investigated, and was assumedly seen as innocent since no one pointed her out?
I certainly wouldn't have changed my vote otherwise, but I've never said anything about Celina not being scum, only myself. I explained my reasoning why I was voting to lynch you and it had nothing to do with your vote on Celina. If you'll notice, I've never claimed Riluna was scum either, just has some, in my opinion, misguided logic.
The information revealed certainly can get things rolling, especially since we now have actual information to work off of. I think Celina may need to answer to what happened, and maybe the other two 'actor's can confirm/deny her story.
Well, see, there's the problem. I'm not sure it's entirely beneficial to reveal both the blocker and the cop (assuming those two were the ones acting), just in order to catch one scum. After all, at that point there'd be no real way to safeguard them; they'd be very likely to die in two more nights.
Comments
I really want this line of "reasoning" to stop, because if you actually think about it, there's nothing reasonable about it at all.
Vote: Saran
I still stand by our day 1 no-lynch not being a bad idea because we had generated at least some discussion, and now we've had a night phase. There's more information available, though revealing it might be dangerous.
That said, I refuse to believe that no one used a power last night, or that those powers revealed bupkis, just that it's more beneficial for whoever has that information to not be forthright just yet.
So, for the moment I'm looking hard at @Xeria or one of the other silent people, if only because they aren't contributing much beyond body-count for now anyway.
I'm okay with Saran as well, actually.
Saran: 2 (Synkarin, Riluna)
Synkarin: 1 (Saran)
Tremula: 1 (Tarkenton)
With 15 players, it's 8 to lynch.
Vote: Saran
Progress is progress, even if I'd rather lynch someone who's been quiet.
Again, while I know that I'm town and it would be better for me to not die as opposed to one of the scum. I also accept that if my lynching will provide the town with the first bit of information that it's had all game. Because that's how the game works.
I also accept that if my lynching will provide the town with the first bit of information that it's had all game then it's not entirely a waste and can help the town to win. Because that's how the game works.