Alliances Soap Opera

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  • SiamSiam Whispered Voice Member Posts: 2,631 Transcendent
    Very few people in Glom wants CL. Very few past CL's have remained active or in Glom. That said, ILY to the dead moon and back @Salome.
    Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"

    #bringShikariback 


  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    Enough damn food, more politic posts.


    Also I wouldnt say it hinges on glomdoring, I would say it hinges on the forests at this point, since they seem to be in the awkward positions of late. I agree we cant really expect much from Serenwilde in terms of movement, since they are serenwilde (it actually has become a definition of inaction..), but at the same time, glomdoring cant just jump boat either.


    Im still of the opinion to just abolish all alliances. Kill it all with fire
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 883 Transcendent
    Lerad said:
    @Kethaera

    First of all, I never said the roleplay of secrecy kept information from being general knowledge. I said there was a roleplay of secrecy, BUT all the information that needed to be general knowledge was never hidden and kept secret. I said, verbatim, that the "layer of secrecy... is limited to the atmospheric feeling". And a line before that, "When action is taken, it is always announced". When action HASN'T been taken, it obviously isn't announced.
    And I don't agree. I think your desire to defend your org is causing you to ignore any fault with it.

    Secondly, the period where we were talking about alliances shifting is a very long period, Keth. And on top of that, I'm pretty sure there has been no consensus in the court's decisions before you left. I can't recall exactly when we finally settled on our current decision, but I'm almost 90% sure it was after you left. In fact, I just took a quick gander up this very thread: the tied combat clan vote (ie. announced to every Glom in the combat clan, which is every Glom except newbies) finished on November 1. You actually left Glom around that very day too. 
    There have been other decisions made in Glom before I left that were never announced. Those were the things I mentioned, not the decision about alliances. Address the the observations I actually made, please.

    There was no consensus even up to the day you left Glom, Keth. As a pro-Cele/Halli person yourself, did you want the Court to suddenly announce we're no longer at de-facto war with Mag? Won't you have kicked up a fuss if anyone tried? As it is, without a clear mandate from Glom players, there can be no fair way to say that we're ending hostilities. We were basically still at de-facto war with Mag when you left. Are we supposed to announce that it has changed... before it has actually changed?
    Considering that the "war" by that point in time was meaningless and it had already been announced that we were negotiating an alliance with them... no? Not really? But then, I was already planning to leave at that point, so it hardly would have made any sense for me to kick up a fuss about it. That doesn't change my point that war was never concluded. And it makes no sense to do the former before the latter.

    When a decision has been made, it has always been announced, Keth. There has never been a case where information has been willfully with-held from the non-Court Glom people. There has been cases when people were too tired to make immediate posts - you've surely had moments like that before, right after events, but I can say with a lot of confidence, never willfully to hoard secrets and "control the flow of information as a source of power".
    I'll grant that I can't read minds or motivations. Not that there isn't a problem or a lack of transparency in Glomdoring politics. The most likely reasons- 1. A desire to avoid being challenged or criticized for a decision(ie, power over others), 2. Apathy.

    Edit: Regarding Serenwilde, Glomdoring has only ever had one stance - hostile. The only reason there was even a temporary peace was because both Seren and Glom thought there was going to be an admin driven event in Faethorn soon. Tempers frayed, patiences snapped, once it was apparent it was going to take longer than a week. (Has it been a few months by now yet?) Once the peace was broken, it was never mended. The negotiating peace parts never fell through... and no Glomdoring person was ever led to believe there would be a second peace, by announcements or a lack of it.
    And it has been left, repeatedly, on everyone else to figure out what any of this means without any direction or announcement- in other words, a lack of communication. Maybe you didn't notice because for the most part, you don't seem to take much interest in politics, but I did. And I got sick of hearing one thing, and then hearing something contradictory a day or hour later, with no explanation given and no post about it made to anyone. 
    "Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    There is definitely some personal bias coloring the situation here, as you say Kethaera,  but I don't think it's coming from Lerad. 

    You made a point to cause turmoil in the Court, to perpetuate a division that lead to drawn out and often non decisions, and you're criticizing other members of the Court because you were getting different answers about Glomdoring political stances? If you were sick of hearing contradictions, stop playing the devil's advocate. However, if you are going to make a point to be the source of a schism in the Court (which I don't fault you for), you can't then fault the Court for being indecisive and not transparent in its inability to not arrive at decisions. That's absurd. You don't get to complain about stepping in the shit you made.

    I, unlike your assumption of Lerad, took a great interest in Glom's politics, and never once did I see this spectre of power hoarding via information deprivation that you are claiming was going on. What I did see was ghosts being created by certain people over non issues, like when I visited with Silvanus on my own, and was (not coincidentally as is apparent now) accused of withholding information for my own ends. 

    So far your specific complaints have been about:

    1) The Court not announcing the lack of an ending to conflict with Magnagora.
    2) The Court not announcing that some people had taken it on themselves to break the divine mandate and fight in Faethorn.
    3) The Court not announcing it was not at peace with Serenwilde

    If you needed the Court to make a unilateral announcement about these in order to be "transparent," the problem is not with the Court,  it is with your unrealistic expectations about announcing non events and not news. 

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  • TalanTalan Member Posts: 1,000 Transcendent

    #NoWireHangersEver

    Vive l'apostrophe!
  • KethaeraKethaera Member Posts: 883 Transcendent
    Celina said:
    There is definitely some personal bias coloring the situation here, as you say Kethaera,  but I don't think it's coming from Lerad. 

    You made a point to cause turmoil in the Court, to perpetuate a division that lead to drawn out and often non decisions, and you're criticizing other members of the Court because you were getting different answers about Glomdoring political stances? If you were sick of hearing contradictions, stop playing the devil's advocate. However, if you are going to make a point to be the source of a schism in the Court (which I don't fault you for), you can't then fault the Court for being indecisive and not transparent in its inability to not arrive at decisions. That's absurd. You don't get to complain about stepping in the shit you made.
    Rather interesting that you accuse me of something that you made a habit of all the time, @Celina. But no, I don't agree that that was my intention when it came to alliances- I had a different position on them than other members of the Court. I.E., you, given that you were the most strident dissenting opinion. I was no more or less a "source of schism", therefore, than you were. There was ONE issue that I did start in an attempt to deliberately provoke people... but that had nothing to do with alliances, even tangentially, as far as I'm aware.

    But for my specific complaints, I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings over this, because at this point, it's moot, and I know there are people involved in all of it who can't separate their real-life feelings from what happens in the game. SO I'm just going to repeat what I said before: the story kept changing, and the politics kept getting increasingly divisive. And I was not the cause of all of it. There was plenty enough blame to share.

    I, unlike your assumption of Lerad, took a great interest in Glom's politics, and never once did I see this spectre of power hoarding via information deprivation that you are claiming was going on. What I did see was ghosts being created by certain people over non issues, like when I visited with Silvanus on my own, and was (not coincidentally as is apparent now) accused of withholding information for my own ends. 
    Wow, way to drag up things that happened ages ago, and was over ages ago. I'd forgotten that had even happened, but apparently you're still dwelling on it? In case you've forgotten, though, I was not the one who started that accusation- I just went along with it because it involved you. 
    So far your specific complaints have been about:

    1) The Court not announcing the lack of an ending to conflict with Magnagora.
    2) The Court not announcing that some people had taken it on themselves to break the divine mandate and fight in Faethorn.
    3) The Court not announcing it was not at peace with Serenwilde

    If you needed the Court to make a unilateral announcement about these in order to be "transparent," the problem is not with the Court,  it is with your unrealistic expectations about announcing non events and not news. 

    What I wanted- and what the Court needed- was consistency, and updates in what was happening and why. 
    "Chairwoman," Princess Setisoki states, holding up a hand in a gesture for her to stop and returning the cup. "That would be quite inappropriate. One of the males will serve me."
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    This is truly an enormous waste of energy if your first comment demonstrates you didn't even bother to read that I don't fault you causing chaos in the Court.. I fault you for blaming the Court for being chaotic or "inconsistent" when you were among the chief components of the problem you were having.

    I'm not dwelling on anything. It's called having a memory relevant to the accusations you are making.  Turns out, I'm not a goldish, I remember shit that happend a few months ago without "dwelling" on it. I also had a really gross cherry beer in the Naval Yard in DC around the same time. Am I dwelling on that too or are you done trying to misrepresent things I say to score points.

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  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    Celina said:


    2) The Court not announcing that some people had taken it on themselves to break the divine mandate and fight in Faethorn.

     

    Yeah just to point this out. If we could just stop doing shit like this please? I find it to be perhaps one of the most crass things when Divine feel the need to appear and force political sways or allegiances. It has, if anything, caused far more drama than any form of perceived solution.

    If we could just get it as some form of admin regulation to -not- interfere in player politics, that would be sweet, kthx.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    They didn't interfere in politics. They said a temporary ceasefire in Faethorn alone, which had no consequence on the Glomdoring/Serenwilde relationship. We continued to raid one another throughout, we just avoided Faethorn. There was absolutely no divine involvement on the political level to sway politics between the two forests. 
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  • SsalissSsaliss Member Posts: 3,575 Transcendent
    There have definitely been cases of Divines interfering in politics though. Recently, for instance, the pantheon of Halli pretty much slammed the banhammer down on an alliance with Gaudiguch.
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  • LeradLerad Member Posts: 2,405 Transcendent
    Kethaera said:

    There have been other decisions made in Glom before I left that were never announced. Those were the things I mentioned, not the decision about alliances. Address the the observations I actually made, please.


    Kethaera said:
    I mean, there was talk of alliances shifting well before I left... but to the average commune member "not on the Court", was there any reason to believe that Glomdoring wasn't still at war with Magnagora?

    ...

    I don't remember if the stance with Serenwilde was ever shared publicly, either, after that fight in Faethorn ended the "peace". Or when they were negotiating peace again... I was on the Court, and it was only when I asked specifically about it that the decision was posted. That's a problem.
    Look, Keth, you brought up two specific concerns in your post. I addressed both of them from my perspective. What else did you want me to address? This is an honest question, and it would really help if you actually said something that, you know, I can respond to before accusing me of not addressing your concerns.

    I'm not sure why you're so hellbent on thinking of Glom's leadership not being communicative. Every time an elder tree got chopped, I made a post about it. When those stopped, I stopped posting too. Every semi-large raid with noticeable losses in Daughters that I was around for, I made a post about it (to let people know they should bind more fae). Fun and exciting revolts or flares I had the fortune to take part in, I made a post about it. Every time something Faethorn related went down, we'd get whoever was there to post about it. As an org, the only person I knew who made it a point not to post and share the fun that we experienced as a group was Xenthos, and that's because he was always too lazy and preferred getting newbies to post for him. -eye Xenthos-

    I'm not sure why I'm getting this unfriendly, "YOU'RE A FANATIC, EVERYTHING YOU LOVE ABOUT GLOM HAS BLINDED YOU TO ITS FAULTS" vibe that your posts seem to be accusing me of. I certainly don't involve myself as much as yourself or others in Glom's politics, because this is a game that I play for my fun, not for yours, or said others. I have my faults, but a lack of separation of myself from my character is probably the least of them - or so I'd like to think. I certainly have my biases, and certainly, there has got to have been cases of mis-communication. Communicating via text only has always come with problems. That is, however, quite a far cry from saying Glomdoring categorically keeps information from our own people for the sake of it - as I have said, such things are common knowledge even OUTSIDE the org. Hell, you couldn't keep a lid on it if you tried.

    Case in point, this latest string of posts that have led to people being confused have been caused by... nothing happening in game. That's exactly why I said what I said - namely that forum drama that confuses you usually lacks substance:


    Lerad said:
    ...
    Forum drama is just forum drama. If you hear something on the forums that hasn't been announce in game in Glom yet, most of the time, it hasn't actually happened in game yet.


  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    I don't know if that's interference, or players trying to buck lore and the admin maintaining the integrity of the game on a higher level. Semantics, I suppose, but players doing things they shouldn't be doing and the admin saying "Stoppit" is not really the same to me as the admin forcing themselves on the players. 
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  • AyisdraAyisdra Member Posts: 1,257 Mythical
    Ssaliss said:
    There have definitely been cases of Divines interfering in politics though. Recently, for instance, the pantheon of Halli pretty much slammed the banhammer down on an alliance with Gaudiguch.
    I would disagree with this. Zvoltz was against it, but didn't ban us from doing it. Jadice wasn't against it at all, she was only anti-Mysrai.

    There was nothing stopping us from going with the alliance anyways. Sure we would lose Jadice and Zvoltz would be mad at us, but we could have still done it.
  • ArcanisArcanis Member Posts: 1,847 Transcendent
    edited November 2015
    - Lisaera stating to seren they cannot make an alliance with Magnagora
    - Viravain and Lisaera telling the forest peeps to work together
    - Jadice saying she'll leave Hallifax if they consider an alliance with Gaudiguch. Funny enough, the same thing was once said by Kalikai to Gaudiguch once-upon-a-time when they were considering the same
    - Viravain's entire life in glomdoring
    - Hoaracle telling seren not to help Magnagora
    - Im pretty sure at one point or another, Eventru didnt want celest to work with glomdoring

    (Those are only the ones off the top of my head)



    And these are only the Org vs Org relation involvement. I havent even mentioned Divine involvement concerning players to their orgs.
  • PejatPejat Member Posts: 104 Adept
    Would Ayisdra have been 'cool' with Jadice leaving?
    For Mister Zvoltz, Pejat has been terminated by the Replicant Dynodeon.
  • CyndarinCyndarin used Flamethrower! It was super effective. Member Posts: 4,508 Transcendent
    edited November 2015

    You are confusing a God maintaining their RP with dictating player politics. Lisaera not liking the home of Fain is exactly how Lisaera should behave. That is not the admin interjecting themselves in player politics, that is a god playing the role they are supposed to play. The admin play characters that are integrated parts of Lusternia's lore, and asking them to not play their characters who would have opinions about these things just because they are also administrators is kind of ridiculous and terrible RP. A god playing their role is not the same thing as an administrator interjecting themselves in player politics. 

    That's my opinion anyways. I think you can seperate the two, and need to be able to if you are going to play a game with as much lore as Lusternia. 

    I don't know the specifics about a lot of what you are citing, but I know what is misleading or an outright non truth. The game itself requires the forests to work together as just a fundamental part of how Maeve and the forests work. It's by design. That is not a Viravain or Liseara thing. 

    The comment about Viravain is also flatly wrong. Maybe Viravain version 1.0 from ages ago, I don't know. Modern Vira is definitely not dictating Glom politics, or even all that involved. 

    Admittedly Eventru interjected often. So you're not wrong there. 


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  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    Silvanus said:
    Lisaera actively blocked the Seren Council from meeting with me as Warlord. That is definitely interfering when you didn't need to and was far too over handed. On a side note, I don't know why anyone would listen or follow their God blindly. These are Gods that lost the war twice over that mortals won. They are not infallible and are self centered.

    Seen the logs. That is exactly what happened and that was interference not roleplaying. Gee, why would he make a decision to make Silvanus' life difficult? Who told him to do that?
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,206 Transcendent
    I'm just waiting to see if an org ever grows the balls to call their divine out on threats to leave the org.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • EnyalidaEnyalida Nasty Woman, Sockpuppeteer to the Gods Member Posts: 4,386 Transcendent
    This has come up a few times before. I was on the council then (right?), received no "instructions" from any gods, and still never heard from @Silvanus
  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    Allow me to clarify. If a Divine is patron of a organization and their RP is against another city, then their actions should only be limited to citizens on their city. Interfering with a publically elected leader of another city is interference. The smart (correct) way to handle it is to leave the rp enemy city leader ALONE and then give commentary about yay or nay to the citizens in your own city. Then they (the players) make the decision. It's not hard unless a person is doing something with an objective in mind.
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,206 Transcendent
    Zvoltz said:

    Okay, number one, we have an alliance thread so if you want to continue complaining about Glom alliance drama take it over there or make a Shadow Court is awesome/sucks thread. I'm at a conference so I can't split the thread for you so I would appreciate it if someone could do that themselves.

    Silvanus and Arcanis, get over it. If you have a complaint about admin e-mail support about it. If your player orgs are so oppressed just ignore your gods or kick them out! The anti-admin narrative you guys keep playing out on the forums is very tiring at this point. This may surprise you but most of us are playing characters as Celina has said above and IRL we actually don't really care. Please move on.

    Whoa, whoa. Calm down, this isn't an "attack the admin" thread, and nothing posted was even close to an attack icly or oocly. Enjoy your conference and don't worry, I'm sure people want get out of hand.

    Probably not.
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
  • KaalakKaalak Member Posts: 515 Fabled
    Zvoltz said:
    Okay, number one, we have an alliance thread so if you want to continue complaining about Glom alliance drama take it over there or make a Shadow Court is awesome/sucks thread. I'm at a conference so I can't split the thread for you so I would appreciate it if someone could do that themselves. Silvanus and Arcanis, get over it. If you have a complaint about admin e-mail support about it. If your player orgs are so oppressed just ignore your gods or kick them out! The anti-admin narrative you guys keep playing out on the forums is very tiring at this point. This may surprise you but most of us are playing characters as Celina has said above and IRL we actually don't really care. Please move on.
    Enjoy your Conference. Or try. At least enjoy the food. Generally that's good. 

    Please understand, publicly restating information about the actions of some individuals is not my intention to attack "the admin" as a whole or you Zvoltz in particular. 

    I'd much rather post bird videos and discuss food. And generally I'm quiet on the forums. But certain errors exist that are in the process of being corrected. 
  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,206 Transcendent
    I'm glad I have Sylandra around to say what I'm horrible at saying :P
    Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
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