So we need to step back and metagame instead of trying to push the idea that, in fact, we do not want it to be an unpleasant atmosphere for the divine just because it's something they're not used to dealing with. I can't believe that you guys think that just because everyone isn't grovelling constantly and, in fact, want to stand up at times is an unpleasant atmosphere. I'm disgusted with you, @Mysrai, and all the other admin who can't handle any kind of RP that isn't fluffy bunnies and all hail the gods. I won't be commenting on this anymore.
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
I believe it's possible to roleplay being against the Divine in a way that doesn't force Divine interaction, nor negatively influence a Divine's roleplay. I don't know Marcella personally, but I do know Daraius, who has his own self-described "agnostic" stance towards the gods. And I've always admired how it translates to fun, awkward roleplay around the gods, neither "groveling" nor insincere to his character. I also remember all the intense Terentia showdowns with, say, Shaddus (wasn't it you, Shaddus? Or Iytha?) that would be posted to forums. They looked fun for both the mortal and Divine involved.
I think this boils down to a universal truth: if someone does not enjoy spending time with another person in a game they play for fun, it's in their best interests to avoid that person. It's true for players, so why not gods?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
7
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
So we need to step back and metagame instead of trying to push the idea that, in fact, we do not want it to be an unpleasant atmosphere for the divine just because it's something they're not used to dealing with. I can't believe that you guys think that just because everyone isn't grovelling constantly and, in fact, want to stand up at times is an unpleasant atmosphere. I'm disgusted with you, @Mysrai, and all the other admin who can't handle any kind of RP that isn't fluffy bunnies and all hail the gods. I won't be commenting on this anymore.
I'm curious as to what you have to say about players who have had interactions with gods that did not involve fluffy bunnies or groveling. Is that how you perceive the game? A myriad of players all kissing the feet of gods? If so, I suggest you try playing outside of the Magnagora echo chamber. I suspect you don't understand why your comments sound so ridiculous to most players because that is not how most of us interact with most of the gods.
I don't think I grovelled to Frai once actually, which was on purpose. I may have called her Lady Frai at the end, but I certainly just refered to her as 'Frai' before we started to like her.
I don't know. I think you need to take a step back Marcella and think about what you're really saying. As @Sylandra pointed out (and people like @Xenthos did as well earlier in the thread), it's quite possible to be rebellious, difficult, stand-offish without actually being a jerk. I think that's the disconnect here, It's not a grovel or you suck and I don't want to play with you attitude being talked about by the admin.
Maybe my previous, [I think] reasonable posts, if responded to, when I'm trying to open dialogue that I do want to have fun with the admins, I wouldn't be so pissy if it didn't look like they were 100% ignored and as soon as I get fed up with it it gets pointed to and goes THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T GET NICE THINGS.
I'm willing to try to work with you people but I don't know *HOW*.
I can say with great emphasis that Hallifax's interactions with Sciomore were not "fluffy bunnies and all hail the gods". In fact, Hallifax was incredibly resistant to Sciomore. However, Hallifax approached its opposition by actually putting up resistance against Sciomore, interacting with its mobs to evacuate them from the city, trying to backstab Scio by shooting the city, etc. Versus in Magnagora, where I'm told the reaction was pretty strongly geared towards insults and derision on CT, clans, tells, etc., to the effects of "hahaha you can zap us and we don't care" and "you don't scare us, you're so boring" and so forth.
Both are in opposition to the relevant god, but one is conducive to a fun roleplaying environment, and the other is conducive to wanting to log out and go blow up some Reapers. I'll let you all decide which is which.
EDIT: I feel it's also important to note that not everyone in the administration has time to be logged in for 8+ hours a day, running events nonstop. Karagash was around when he was able to be around, and wasn't when he wasn't. It turns out he was in a situation where he was forced to spend more time not logged in than logged in, which means less time for him to do whatever in-game, even ignoring the larger context of this discussion.
You mean the posts where you said things along the lines of
'We sure 'got' a lot right?'
Gaudi had very little mechanical benefits either, we still had fun with it. Between Gail, whiskey or death whatever, we did our thing. The shield we got in response to the doom cannon was about a 15-20 min convo between Steingrim, Frai and I and another 2 mins asking the city if it's ok, then Frai wiggling her shadowy fingers and boom, shield.
So yes, you 'got' a lot. Just not as much as some.
Again, re-read those posts. You're sitting here saying that you think you should be able to RP the way you want, and if they don't like it, then shame on them.
It's a two way street. If people don't like the way you're RPing, they don't have to interact with you. And telling them they're wrong for doing that is absolutely ridiculous. You don't get to dictate how people play with you.
I'm told the reaction was pretty strongly geared towards insults and derision on CT, clans, tells, etc., to the effects of "hahaha you can zap us and we don't care" and "you don't scare us, you're so boring" and so forth.
This is the downside to being a snoop - you hear things that were not meant for your ears.
I don't get why you think it is okay for you to dictate how they roleplay with you, but not okay for them to decide they are not interested in that kind of roleplay and do something they find more enjoyable.
Kind of a tangent, but my agnostic RP was mentioned. Speaking just for myself, I imagine Dar can come off as dismissive towards gods, even Halli's divine consulate. He doesn't seek them out or take their words for gospel, but it has nothing to do with my feelings about the admin behind them. If Master Quettle speaks up or Monsoma Cloudwalker comes visiting, that's instantly the highlight of my play session, and Daraius is far, far more likely to take advice from one of them than from Zvoltz. I would say if you find the attitude towards divine roles hostile, try inhabiting an NPC and interacting with your citizens that way. You could see that (maybe) they aren't universally awful. You could investigate, from a non-divine position of authority, what makes them tick. Maybe even change some minds, if they're open to it.
I know I'm not in a position to give advice to volunteer admin, and I really have no idea what the atmosphere is like outside of Hallifax (or outside my own character, even), so I could be totally off base,
See, especially with the second one, you're kind of sending mixed signals. First you are saying that you feel as if new gods infringe on Magnagora's thing, and that Magnagora pushes back against said new gods. That's fine, if that is the direction that Magnagora wants to go...but by pushing away gods, you have to expect that they will not stick around, because you are pushing them away.
Admins are just like regular players, the only difference is that they are mostly focused on making fun things happen, instead of being on the receiving end. If you spend a lot of time and effort in antagonising someone, he or she will leave the org and join another. For admins, of course, they can't really do that, so they'll just stop interacting with the org in question. You have to understand this -- you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
To be honest, some of the most fun I have RPing is with Sebitti, who can do and say a lot more than @Mysrai. I tend to spend more time as her than as Mys, some days!
I'm told the reaction was pretty strongly geared towards insults and derision on CT, clans, tells, etc., to the effects of "hahaha you can zap us and we don't care" and "you don't scare us, you're so boring" and so forth.
This is the downside to being a snoop - you hear things that were not meant for your ears.
The tells I'm referring to were directed towards Karagash directly. And this stuff happening on other channels such as clans, even if the god can't hear it, tends to feed into player attitudes and how they interact with people, even if unintentionally, and serves as an echochamber that only makes this sort of situation that much worse.
Sebitti is my favourite @Mysrai dweller, and I love her to death and back. While Mysrai and I have never properly met face-to-face (I saw them as the giant alien void structure that spoke in 'Iklara' and then when I had my Voice stolen) and I have a natural bias against Mysrai because of the Divine I chose to follow, Sebitti is one of the highlights of my day whenever I see her. Daraius is completely correct, because Tremula has come to appreciate Mysrai as a Divine just because They managed to get someone so amasing on Their side.
Probably going to be met with the same responses already here, but going to give it a shot. When the event first started and we were greeted with Karagash, we were curious and okay. Questions were asked and no answers given except quite literally, "I'm the greatest." kind of attitude. We were fine with this and rolled with it. Not shortly after we got the Death Challenge that's been brought up so many times. At this point we were stoked - Magnagora sustained no damage during the 'big fight' and we didn't have some jerk Being booting us from a city or just zapping needlessly.
We were then granted the plague of rats, rather comical as a 'combat prowess' check. After very few casualties the epidemic was over and we the citizens asked to challenge Celest's prowess. This was met with a, "Good idea, lets do it!" attitude and we were still happy with this, not the super cannon but I'm not complaining about that, we were indeed getting attention. Sadly we never got to see the challenge go through, but I assume it did at some point as Aelish gave that Broom of Doom as we titled it in Mag. Keep in mind, this is days into the event all this happened and we were solid with it, minor resistance and "Praise be to the Elders" still floating around. The 'hatred' and comments of such really only started when Karagash refused to prove Himself a worthy leader of Magnagora. I know a lot of you people know about Magnagora, we like pretty shows of strength and deeds.
When the Sea of Despair was attacked -THEN- Kunthin and the Necromantate were removed, is when we got irritable. We had new characters being rolled and in a manner of sucks to be you, couldn't help people complete the Collegium. Not the biggest of worries I know, I came up with a solution to just test knowledge on it and have a Professor speed time, blam. The issue was that Karagash (true to the template also mentioned earlier) would refuse to strike against Aelish. Instead he struck out at Gaudiguch and Frai, whom the people of Magnagora had no qualms with and did not want to see the destruction or damage of. So after Karagash decided to remove Drachou, we were miffed.
In case nobody realizes, Celest and Magnagora have had this decade long spat of, "I'm going to destroy you." "No bro, I'm going to destroy you!" Saying anything else is a lie. So when the appointed Patron of Celest moved on Magnagoran territory, we of Magnagora acting much like ourselves, asked our appointed Patron to respond. The initial request was, "Can you please retaint it, Iron Lord." there was no disrespect yet. Instead of a deed that would bond Him with Magnagora, we got a third Death Challenge, the battle of the sexes, and people were punished for speaking up in any protest or not even participating. I personally got zapped three times in a row, for asking, "What did I miss?" on the city aether....seriously. So when the oppression actually started is when people got admittedly rude. This is now towards the middle of the event. Karagash never gave a reason for not acting, nor would they ever talk things out with us. There was no, "Follow My strength and we shall be unstoppable." or anything leaderish about Him. Another quick history note on Magnagora, the position is called Warlord for a reason.
This is getting lengthy, but it's almost required to explain that Mag was not rude out of the gate and being disrespectful. It wasn't just a lack of caring, anti-divine RP, or other such claims made here. I get people don't want to play a character or role they don't enjoy because people make it miserable - I've lived that nightmare since I started playing this game, but I still do it. I'm not faulting the people who jumped onto Karagash and gave Him life, I wouldn't want to do it either especially having to follow a template that makes little sense to those outside the knowledge circle. So while it seems like we're complaining about not getting shiny stuff (Which I'm sure people are), it's more that our Divine gave up on us because they couldn't go against the character set for them and this displeased the Org they were assigned to.
EDIT: Slightly unrelated side note. Can the Divine mute affect primary aethers? I personally think its silly but understand the logic of it only affecting Says. But in argument for it...its a God, they can turn off the speech part because why not? Screw telepathy outside of the Psionics users
3
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
(@Daraius I hope it was clear I brought you up as a positive example of RPing disinterest in gods! You've always come off respectful in my experience.)
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
I have the feeling I missed something since I missed this event. From what I read, for the most part, people did get passionate about things and I think that means I can say the Admins did a good job.
For that, I say kudos and wish I hadn't missed, but hey, exams are important. Not much I can do with the hand I was dealt.
Maybe my previous, [I think] reasonable posts, if responded to, when I'm trying to open dialogue that I do want to have fun with the admins, I wouldn't be so pissy if it didn't look like they were 100% ignored and as soon as I get fed up with it it gets pointed to and goes THIS IS WHY YOU DON'T GET NICE THINGS.
I'm willing to try to work with you people but I don't know *HOW*.
I think your primary problem is that you -don't- do a small amount of metagaming. At some point, you're going to need to in order to realize the following: you can't "beat" Morgfyre, you're not going to destroy Glomdoring, and there are certain lines you really shouldn't cross, like attacking people in in a god's fulcrux.
That's not to say you can't oppose Morgy, and you can't actively work against Glomdoring, but you can't go at it the same way you go at opposing mortals, by swinging an axe (physically and verbally) and hoping people run into it. You're damned smart, and I know you can come up with ways to get what you want without alienating people oocly.
I'd also like to urge you to alt outside of Magnagora. Make a character that's the complete opposite of Marcella and roll with it. Step outside your comfort zone, and you'll be better for it.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
there's so much money into marcella why would i ever play another character, lusternia is so pay to win how could I even cope with starting over
Intro does suck hardcore.
M&M is free if you can use Mudlet.
I cope all the time. You don't have to "win", you're just alting to try out new things and new viewpoints.
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
there's so much money into marcella why would i ever play another character, lusternia is so pay to win how could I even cope with starting over
In reverse order:
Redefine 'win' then. Roll up a Hallifaxian Scholar, or a Celestian Priest, or a Serenwilder Mystic. Don't play to smash skulls and take names, play to be memorable, or quirky, or cute, or a curmudgeon, but most of all, play to immerse yourself in the atmosphere and culture of the new org, even if you never want or try to become a top-tier (or even mid-tier) combattant in your new alt's home. After a couple of weeks or a couple of months when you get bored of the new character, hop back on Marcella and pwn sum faic for a while. Let the alt die, but don't forget what it was like to play them.
mmf can help bridge the gap if you're on Mudlet, and if not, just let autosipping and firstaid keep you alive while bashing, and keep your head down to stay off the PKdar.
Intro sucks, but at least you know where most of the gegaws are, and it shouldn't take more than three or four hours if you're stopping to smell the roses and lollygag while doing it to complete the handholdy bits, and then if you don't want to see Newton again, just go round up Bard/Scholar/Pilgrims and you'll be in your mid 40s before it stops being as effective. Heck, For Seren, Celest, and Glom it's not unreasonable to just do the power quest over and over and learn lessons or do Collegium stuff between rounds. In Celest I think you can earn cityfavours for it, even.
4
Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Alternatively, move Marcella. You CAN change your RP, despite how people react to the idea sometimes. I just did it with Celina. I encourage everyone, at some point, to try a change of perspective. It's really amazing what you learn when you force yourself out of your comfort zone.
Alternatively, move Marcella. You CAN change your RP, despite how people react to the idea sometimes. I just did it with Celina. I encourage everyone, at some point, to try a change of perspective. It's really amazing what you learn when you force yourself out of your comfort zone.
As both a prolific alter and orghopper, this. All of this, and the above from @Shaddus, too. The game becomes so much richer when you learn to appreciate different parts of it in different ways, from different angles. I don't understand how anyone could be stuck with one character, especially one character that is stuck in one place.
Of course I'm still a miserable bitch that hates all of you regardless but imagine if I didn't orghop.
Crumkane, Lord of Epicurean Delights says, "WAS IT INDEED ON FIRE, ERITHEYL."
-
With a deep reverb, Contemptible Sutekh says, "CEASE YOUR INFERNAL ENERGY, ERITHEYL."
6
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
The few times I've played in other orgs I've really enjoyed it. I only ever really had one long term alt experience outside Halli, but it was pretty transformative and a lot of fun. Less pressure to be intelligent or witty or important or useful. And even when you don't think you have assumptions about other orgs, you find yourself surprised to learn that other orgs aren't the way you always imagined.
I also think there is great merit in actual physical distance from the game. I remember being so insanely stressed out about Lusternia on my worst days, and really emotionally invested in its characters and politics. Orgs and players who used to seem like bad guys (Those stinky Gloms!) turned out to be, gasp, normal people. Shock and awe! When you remember that Lusternia is a game--ie, something people play with other people for fun--I think that influences how you interact in the world of Lusternia.
It's really this simple: Everyone is here to have fun.
We are all text people worshipping or not worshipping text gods in a text landscape. I play a fancy feathered old lady on the Internet who drinks tea and watches opera with her dog husband. Let's not take ourselves or our RP too seriously.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
I'm curious as to what you have to say about players who have had interactions with gods that did not involve fluffy bunnies or groveling. Is that how you perceive the game? A myriad of players all kissing the feet of gods? If so, I suggest you try playing outside of the Magnagora echo chamber. I suspect you don't understand why your comments sound so ridiculous to most players because that is not how most of us interact with most of the gods.
Vive l'apostrophe!
Estarra the Eternal says, "Give Shevat the floor please."
Ixion tells you, "// I don't think anyone else had a clue, amazing form."
We were then granted the plague of rats, rather comical as a 'combat prowess' check. After very few casualties the epidemic was over and we the citizens asked to challenge Celest's prowess. This was met with a, "Good idea, lets do it!" attitude and we were still happy with this, not the super cannon but I'm not complaining about that, we were indeed getting attention. Sadly we never got to see the challenge go through, but I assume it did at some point as Aelish gave that Broom of Doom as we titled it in Mag. Keep in mind, this is days into the event all this happened and we were solid with it, minor resistance and "Praise be to the Elders" still floating around. The 'hatred' and comments of such really only started when Karagash refused to prove Himself a worthy leader of Magnagora. I know a lot of you people know about Magnagora, we like pretty shows of strength and deeds.
When the Sea of Despair was attacked -THEN- Kunthin and the Necromantate were removed, is when we got irritable. We had new characters being rolled and in a manner of sucks to be you, couldn't help people complete the Collegium. Not the biggest of worries I know, I came up with a solution to just test knowledge on it and have a Professor speed time, blam. The issue was that Karagash (true to the template also mentioned earlier) would refuse to strike against Aelish. Instead he struck out at Gaudiguch and Frai, whom the people of Magnagora had no qualms with and did not want to see the destruction or damage of. So after Karagash decided to remove Drachou, we were miffed.
In case nobody realizes, Celest and Magnagora have had this decade long spat of, "I'm going to destroy you." "No bro, I'm going to destroy you!" Saying anything else is a lie. So when the appointed Patron of Celest moved on Magnagoran territory, we of Magnagora acting much like ourselves, asked our appointed Patron to respond. The initial request was, "Can you please retaint it, Iron Lord." there was no disrespect yet. Instead of a deed that would bond Him with Magnagora, we got a third Death Challenge, the battle of the sexes, and people were punished for speaking up in any protest or not even participating. I personally got zapped three times in a row, for asking, "What did I miss?" on the city aether....seriously. So when the oppression actually started is when people got admittedly rude. This is now towards the middle of the event. Karagash never gave a reason for not acting, nor would they ever talk things out with us. There was no, "Follow My strength and we shall be unstoppable." or anything leaderish about Him. Another quick history note on Magnagora, the position is called Warlord for a reason.
This is getting lengthy, but it's almost required to explain that Mag was not rude out of the gate and being disrespectful. It wasn't just a lack of caring, anti-divine RP, or other such claims made here. I get people don't want to play a character or role they don't enjoy because people make it miserable - I've lived that nightmare since I started playing this game, but I still do it. I'm not faulting the people who jumped onto Karagash and gave Him life, I wouldn't want to do it either especially having to follow a template that makes little sense to those outside the knowledge circle. So while it seems like we're complaining about not getting shiny stuff (Which I'm sure people are), it's more that our Divine gave up on us because they couldn't go against the character set for them and this displeased the Org they were assigned to.
EDIT: Slightly unrelated side note. Can the Divine mute affect primary aethers? I personally think its silly but understand the logic of it only affecting Says. But in argument for it...its a God, they can turn off the speech part because why not? Screw telepathy outside of the Psionics users
For that, I say kudos and wish I hadn't missed, but hey, exams are important. Not much I can do with the hand I was dealt.
I think your primary problem is that you -don't- do a small amount of metagaming. At some point, you're going to need to in order to realize the following: you can't "beat" Morgfyre, you're not going to destroy Glomdoring, and there are certain lines you really shouldn't cross, like attacking people in in a god's fulcrux.
That's not to say you can't oppose Morgy, and you can't actively work against Glomdoring, but you can't go at it the same way you go at opposing mortals, by swinging an axe (physically and verbally) and hoping people run into it. You're damned smart, and I know you can come up with ways to get what you want without alienating people oocly.
I'd also like to urge you to alt outside of Magnagora. Make a character that's the complete opposite of Marcella and roll with it. Step outside your comfort zone, and you'll be better for it.
Intro does suck hardcore. M&M is free if you can use Mudlet. I cope all the time. You don't have to "win", you're just alting to try out new things and new viewpoints.
Of course I'm still a miserable bitch that hates all of you regardless but imagine if I didn't orghop.
-