Oh, well I can only work with what the mod gives me.
Falmiis wandered around some after the town meeting, but I didn't see him be approached by anyone, was a significantly different message to the 'you can't watch Ssaliss, since he's not at home' type message of the previous night. So I interpreted it as him not acting/being acted on.
There is another possibility for a discrepancy, in that my understanding is that the Apache Tracker is just some guy in an Indian headdress pretending to be a tracker, so I guess we can't rule out the possibility that you are a Naive Tracker, and always return a negative result? Both your targets have been aeoned though, so won't be able to confirm that until tonight!
...Dude. That would suck. So bad. Like what is even the point of that. If that's the case then I feel so damn trolled by Ieptix.
: |
Anyway screw that, I have to keep working with what I've got either way. I just wanted to throw a little attention your way and highlight some possibilities that people can consider as the game unfolds. We definitely have bigger fish to fry.
I mean I think it's unlikely you're a naive tracker following the Carlos reveal, but I'm not sure there is a true discrepancy.
You tracked Falmiis on night 1 but the aeon slowed the action giving you a negative result for that night. I watched Falmiis on night 2, but since his action counted as being sent the previous night, I had a negative result.
I mean I think it's unlikely you're a naive tracker following the Carlos reveal, but I'm not sure there is a true discrepancy.
You tracked Falmiis on night 1 but the aeon slowed the action giving you a negative result for that night. I watched Falmiis on night 2, but since his action counted as being sent the previous night, I had a negative result.
But that is *not* how the ability works. According to Ieptix, the delay means that the ability triggers as normal the following night. Since he wasn't blocked on Night 2, you should have seen him. And trying to throw it back that Cen is the naive tracker is just plain weird. Falmiis' action on night 1 didn't go through, so of course she wouldn't see anything. Silvanus' action did not go through on night 2, so of course she wouldn't see anything. The action triggers as normal the following night, and all observational investigations will happen on that following night. You're the one whose investigation does not make sense. Not Cen.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Also, arguing that I may "easily" have two powers and could therefore be scum, while at the same time ignoring that Krackenor has actually claimed two different powers is just... If you weren't already apparently slated to die, which I'm starting to wonder if it isn't just a lie born from Ayisdra's role being revealed, I'd be calling for the vig to get at you.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Go back to what @Falmiis said, he said himself he couldn't take any action on night 2 since his ability was locked in from night 1. That is exactly what I saw, him not taking any action on night 2.
I only threw out the naive tracker suggestion since people seem to want to insist there is a discrepancy. As I just said though, I don't believe there is any discrepancy, and really don't believe he is a naive tracker, but hey, I'll keep all scenarios in mind!
You may play moderator differently and have the delayed actions as functioning on that night, but again, all I have to say is I'm just working with what Ieptix gives me!
I think you're clutching at straws trying to present my investigations as unreliable. Everything I've said has been consistent.
I want to vote for Kira less and less. She picked the same targets as me on both nights so far, which means she found the same people suspicious as I did. I'm still a little sour that she rendered me pointless two nights in a row, but at this point I'd still rather lynch Krackenor and have Kira investigated tonight.
Remembering the Carlos reveal has me convinced that I'm 100% not a Naive Tracker. It said on Ileein's role sheet that if the tracker followed her, the target would be revealed as Cecil. No reason to put that if my power were useless.
(Thank you, Ush! I had an amazing night but am paying for it today.)
Also, arguing that I may "easily" have two powers and could therefore be scum, while at the same time ignoring that Krackenor has actually claimed two different powers is just... If you weren't already apparently slated to die, which I'm starting to wonder if it isn't just a lie born from Ayisdra's role being revealed, I'd be calling for the vig to get at you.
I'm not ignoring Krackenor having two powers, I'm the only person to have directly witnessed both of them. And from that I am led to believe he is pro-town.
I mean, the only people to benefit from casting doubt on my powers are mafia, and the only person to benefit from saying 'but that isn't how the aeon power works' is @Kiradawea
Sure, we're all self-interested in wanting to win, but at this point all my cards are on the table, everything I've said is, I believe, consistent with what we know, and so I'm good with doing:
Except Falmiis *did* take an action on night 2. He roleblocked Sylandra. That's why your argument falls flat.
Again, I can only work with the info Ieptix gives me, which from my point of view is 100% consistent with what Falmiis has said himself.
On the other hand, you/mafia are the only person to benefit from trying to cast doubt on what I saw and putting misinformation out about your own powers.
I mean really, if we try work through your scenario which is that I didn't really watch Falmiis last night then, what? Only logical conclusion is it means you think I'm anti-town.
Since there was only a mafia death last night, that would then mean that I am completely making the blowgun thing up, and mafia chose not to kill anyone (extremely unlikely, though I guess you can't rule out a small possibility of Sylandra/Silvanus still being the other mafia since they were blocked/aeoned), and/or I must have been blocked by an unknown party/have some other power that hasn't been revealed yet.
It leads into the most convoluted, elaborate scenario ever to explain the current scenario, and so really, if there's an argument that falls flat, it's yours!
If I think you're anti-town, it's because of Krackenor's lich seed. Thing is though... there *is* another solution. There may be a busdriver that switched Falmiis and someone else last night. Alternatively, prod Ieptix on if there's a missing message. My night actions have been confirmed by others, and there's no reason why they shouldn't work as they do.
And you're sure that you're a motion detector as well, and not just a watcher, right? Because motion detection is a distinc role from watcher.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
I will concede the point that I may not be a true motion detector, as that is an interpretation drawn from the fact that I know Ssaliss has a night action, which would not normally be revealed to a pure watcher only.
Also, it is based on my message regarding Falmiis that did involve me following him around as he wanders for a bit and not seeing anyone approach, or him approach anyone else.
And this is why I add a paranthesis with the facts to go with the flavour. Could you please ask Ieptix if the response means that you did, in fact, see Falmiis do something that night? That would clear up the error right away.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Or, and I'm not trying to cast aspersions on Falmiis with this, I'm just thinking out loud, but Falmiis' night action could be immune to motion detection if he's sending the spirits out to do the work for him. But really, if all you got was a flavour message, ask Ieptix to confirm what the flavour meant for you.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Well whatever the result of whether I'm a true motion detector or not, I am definitely a watcher and half of what I said regarding Falmiis will remain true, he wasn't targeted by anyone last night. Will get back to you if/when Ieptix clarifies what I witnessed.
Rather than stay on this for longer, I'd like to hear from @Ssaliss and what was up with him on Night 1?
Aren't the tracker and watcher powers different? I thought the former follows the target as they go about their nightly business while the latter sees who visits the target. That could explain the discrepancy if true.
Also, i'm happy to answer any questions you have, but since I'm at work and on the (super clunky) mobile version of the forum, it would help if you could enumerate them below.
There are three standard observational powers, watcher, tracker and motion detector. (more exist, but these three are the ones you usually see)
The tracker follows someone and sees who they target. The watcher chechs someone and sees who target them. The motion detector notice if the target moves, and if someone moves to them, but they don't get any names.
Ushaara claims watcher, while also having the ability to detect if the target acts at night or not. Which makes it a mix of watcher and motion detector.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
After running through some potential scenarios and what they imply, and being fairly confident about what Ssaliss' power will turn out to be and why my attempt at watching failed while revealing he has a night action... at the risk of completely throwing town into disarray here's a potential spanner in the works!
Again while I've reasoned through it and I think it makes sense, it's all unconfirmed, but think it through remaining town peoples and consider its likelihood!
@Silvanus is right about there being multiple factions in the game, but rather than it being @Krackenor leading a cult, it is Silvanus himself who is part of this second faction killing at night.
What's the evidence?
1) As @Ssaliss pointed out, Ayisdra's death didn't reveal a whole lot, but there is the copy of the Silmarillion left discarded by the body. While the rest of Ieptix's day-opening post is pretty regular and innocent, I'm inclined to believe the proximity of this mention to the book so close to the death is significant. While it's somewhat tenuous, the only connection I can make with the Silmarillion as a clue, is that one of the antagonists is Glaurung, a dragon known as the Deceiver, and hence Silvanus being literally a five-headed-dragon is suspect.
2) Focusing on Krackenor as scum gives him the easy excuse of 'we had to be sure that Krackenor wasn't a cultist/arsonist' when Krackenor invariably flips town.
3) We have only his claim that he was aeoned last night, which makes us think that he couldn't have been the one to kill Ayisdra, and can only be corroborated by Kiradawea, who I believe is likely on his team. His claim to have investigated her last night again could be seen as designed to make us not lynch her today, leaving him to claim she's innocent and remove suspicion from them both.
4) He's chosen to paint myself and @Sylandra as suspicious, claiming it's because he's overseen us play as mafia/other. Alternative? We are two of the most dangerous town to him, me since I can catch him in the act of killing someone, and @Sylandra since as I've pointed out, her powers are actually brilliantly useful for town and even allow her to act as a protector or investigator.
So this completely changes up the board I posted earlier, and would put @Silvanus himself as the potential tricksy mafia genius.
Evil Group 1 ----------------- Silvanus Kiradawea Leann (Hatchet Killer)
Evil Group 2 ----------------- Ayisdra ? ?
(also Ieptix confirmed I'm only watcher, not motion detector, which makes me quite confident about my new interpretation of Ssaliss, and yeah just reading too much into the flavour text of me following Falmiis around last night)
Oh, though hmm, @Cen claims he investigated @Silvanus and didn't see him target anyone.
Option 1) Cen is telling the truth, the above is a load of nonsense and I'm too paranoid.
Option 2) Cen is lying - This would reveal him as the third person in their faction. Claiming that he targeted the two people Kiradawea supposedly blocked gives him an easy claim that doesn't lead to being caught out by saying he tracked someone who actually did take a night action. He was also the person to suggest Leann as the hatchet killer, which I guess (?) kinda still makes sense for Cen as the Apache Tracker?
That's so brilliant I almost wish it were true. But I've been throwing suspicions at Silvanus and Kira for 2 days now. Why would I do that if we were teamies?
I think we just need to make a lynch happen and see what new info it brings. It's clear that we don't have quite enough yet. I'm still down for offing Kira or Krackenor. I want to keep Sylandra around for a bit longer, even if she's hella shady and a known mafia mastermind, because her powers are helpful as all heck for town. She's been acting pro-town thus far and I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because Glow Cloud is OP and Town needs all the help it can get.
Silvanus as a baddie... maybe. Should be considered.
*Still* inclined to vote Krackenor over Kira, because then we'll get the scoop on his powers and what the lich seed really does and how it works. That'll help us either give Ushaara the all clear or lynch the dirty cultist.
But yeah. I'll go Kira if that's what town wants to see instead.
Urgh, I'm so sorry for the formatting. Stupid phone forums.
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Well, the Kira comment of "my powers should be watch/trackable" does surprise me, considering people's comments to the contrary. Don't know what to make of that. Kind of want to lynch more just to compare her abilities to what people are saying.
I still say we need to kill one of the Lusternians today. Not sure who people are leaning towards anymore. I still contend the aeon power is dangerous, but if Kira's defense is enough to sway you all, I'll vote Krackenor. But if he's town and we've lost protector skillz, I will be pretty disappoint!
Kira's fearlessness about investigation is interesting, though. Unexpected. A bluff, or honesty? Investigator immunity? Hm, hm, hm. Or maybe she just wants another night to use her night action?
Again, if you want me dead, I will repeat that I'm happy to die tomorrow's nightphase. The mafia, and the SK also, are both totally into that idea, since having a tank around severely messes up their plans of world domination. So those of you saying "Sylandra is dangerous!" shhh. I am not long for this world (probably).
Now I do plan to use redirecting abilities tonight, which, I suspect, the person redirected would know about. So at the very least you know I won't be killing anyone! (Which I haven't done all game! Notice the complete lack of death-by-animal-corpse!)
Anyway let's make one of the those dreaded lists @Rolsand hates.
----------------
Nightvale Citizens: 1. Sylandra - The Glow Cloud. ALL HAIL. (tricksy death evader, one-time day-ender, and limited mind-controller)
2. Cen - Apache Tracker (known as local weirdo who thinks he's Native American but isn't, tracker)
3. Silvanus - Hiram McDaniels (Five-headed dragon with five one-shot powers)
4. Ushaara - The Faceless Old Woman (creepy lady in your house with watcher/motion detector powers)
5. Melali - Tamika Flynn. (haven't found her yet in the podcast, no powers claimed??)
Dead Nightvale Citizens:
1. Ileein - Carlos (Cecil's love interest, Investigator) - TOWN
2. Synkarin - Erika (Beautiful angel, Protector) - TOWN
3. Lavinya - Dana Cardinal (Compassionate mayor, Governor Power) - TOWN
I'm actually pretty trusting of the "claimed as Nightvale Character" list, in general. People who are cobbling together scum teams based on primarily Nightvale characters are ignoring what the game has told us: that if you are from Nightvale, odds are you're town (4 townies on 4 deaths!), and that our mafia, in at least one instance, involves Lusternians.
The people I trust the least, ergo, are the Lusternians and the unconfirmed people.
The only way we can start trusting the Lusternians is if one flips as townie when dead.
So I know we're running around in circles here, but which Lusternian are we thinking needs to go? I already said Kiradawea, but some of you say Krackenor. Want to figure out how big our divide is.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
(Sidebar: Why is Kira pushing this bus driver thing so hard? I'm disinclined to think there's one because I'm a redirector, which works pretty similarly to a bus driver in its way. Not sure why both would exist in this game, and more importantly, no one has shared having their target bussed. "Huh weird I thought I targeted so-and-so," etc.
Is there more evidence to this theory that I just am not aware of?)
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Comments
Falmiis wandered around some after the town meeting, but I didn't see him be approached by anyone, was a significantly different message to the 'you can't watch Ssaliss, since he's not at home' type message of the previous night. So I interpreted it as him not acting/being acted on.
There is another possibility for a discrepancy, in that my understanding is that the Apache Tracker is just some guy in an Indian headdress pretending to be a tracker, so I guess we can't rule out the possibility that you are a Naive Tracker, and always return a negative result? Both your targets have been aeoned though, so won't be able to confirm that until tonight!
: |
Anyway screw that, I have to keep working with what I've got either way. I just wanted to throw a little attention your way and highlight some possibilities that people can consider as the game unfolds. We definitely have bigger fish to fry.
I'd like to hear more from @Krackenor.
You tracked Falmiis on night 1 but the aeon slowed the action giving you a negative result for that night.
I watched Falmiis on night 2, but since his action counted as being sent the previous night, I had a negative result.
Also, I almost forgot. Happy birthday.
I only threw out the naive tracker suggestion since people seem to want to insist there is a discrepancy. As I just said though, I don't believe there is any discrepancy, and really don't believe he is a naive tracker, but hey, I'll keep all scenarios in mind!
You may play moderator differently and have the delayed actions as functioning on that night, but again, all I have to say is I'm just working with what Ieptix gives me!
I think you're clutching at straws trying to present my investigations as unreliable. Everything I've said has been consistent.
Remembering the Carlos reveal has me convinced that I'm 100% not a Naive Tracker. It said on Ileein's role sheet that if the tracker followed her, the target would be revealed as Cecil. No reason to put that if my power were useless.
(Thank you, Ush!
(Thank you!
I mean, the only people to benefit from casting doubt on my powers are mafia, and the only person to benefit from saying 'but that isn't how the aeon power works' is @Kiradawea
Sure, we're all self-interested in wanting to win, but at this point all my cards are on the table, everything I've said is, I believe, consistent with what we know, and so I'm good with doing:
Unvote
Vote Kiradawea
On the other hand, you/mafia are the only person to benefit from trying to cast doubt on what I saw and putting misinformation out about your own powers.
Since there was only a mafia death last night, that would then mean that I am completely making the blowgun thing up, and mafia chose not to kill anyone (extremely unlikely, though I guess you can't rule out a small possibility of Sylandra/Silvanus still being the other mafia since they were blocked/aeoned), and/or I must have been blocked by an unknown party/have some other power that hasn't been revealed yet.
It leads into the most convoluted, elaborate scenario ever to explain the current scenario, and so really, if there's an argument that falls flat, it's yours!
And you're sure that you're a motion detector as well, and not just a watcher, right? Because motion detection is a distinc role from watcher.
Also, it is based on my message regarding Falmiis that did involve me following him around as he wanders for a bit and not seeing anyone approach, or him approach anyone else.
Rather than stay on this for longer, I'd like to hear from @Ssaliss and what was up with him on Night 1?
The tracker follows someone and sees who they target.
The watcher chechs someone and sees who target them.
The motion detector notice if the target moves, and if someone moves to them, but they don't get any names.
Ushaara claims watcher, while also having the ability to detect if the target acts at night or not. Which makes it a mix of watcher and motion detector.
Again while I've reasoned through it and I think it makes sense, it's all unconfirmed, but think it through remaining town peoples and consider its likelihood!
@Silvanus is right about there being multiple factions in the game, but rather than it being @Krackenor leading a cult, it is Silvanus himself who is part of this second faction killing at night.
What's the evidence?
1) As @Ssaliss pointed out, Ayisdra's death didn't reveal a whole lot, but there is the copy of the Silmarillion left discarded by the body. While the rest of Ieptix's day-opening post is pretty regular and innocent, I'm inclined to believe the proximity of this mention to the book so close to the death is significant. While it's somewhat tenuous, the only connection I can make with the Silmarillion as a clue, is that one of the antagonists is Glaurung, a dragon known as the Deceiver, and hence Silvanus being literally a five-headed-dragon is suspect.
2) Focusing on Krackenor as scum gives him the easy excuse of 'we had to be sure that Krackenor wasn't a cultist/arsonist' when Krackenor invariably flips town.
3) We have only his claim that he was aeoned last night, which makes us think that he couldn't have been the one to kill Ayisdra, and can only be corroborated by Kiradawea, who I believe is likely on his team. His claim to have investigated her last night again could be seen as designed to make us not lynch her today, leaving him to claim she's innocent and remove suspicion from them both.
4) He's chosen to paint myself and @Sylandra as suspicious, claiming it's because he's overseen us play as mafia/other. Alternative? We are two of the most dangerous town to him, me since I can catch him in the act of killing someone, and @Sylandra since as I've pointed out, her powers are actually brilliantly useful for town and even allow her to act as a protector or investigator.
So this completely changes up the board I posted earlier, and would put @Silvanus himself as the potential tricksy mafia genius.
Evil Group 1
-----------------
Silvanus
Kiradawea
Leann (Hatchet Killer)
Evil Group 2
-----------------
Ayisdra
?
?
(also Ieptix confirmed I'm only watcher, not motion detector, which makes me quite confident about my new interpretation of Ssaliss, and yeah just reading too much into the flavour text of me following Falmiis around last night)
Option 1) Cen is telling the truth, the above is a load of nonsense and I'm too paranoid.
Option 2) Cen is lying - This would reveal him as the third person in their faction. Claiming that he targeted the two people Kiradawea supposedly blocked gives him an easy claim that doesn't lead to being caught out by saying he tracked someone who actually did take a night action. He was also the person to suggest Leann as the hatchet killer, which I guess (?) kinda still makes sense for Cen as the Apache Tracker?
Boom. Silvanus, Kiradawea and Cen are scum!
I think we just need to make a lynch happen and see what new info it brings. It's clear that we don't have quite enough yet. I'm still down for offing Kira or Krackenor. I want to keep Sylandra around for a bit longer, even if she's hella shady and a known mafia mastermind, because her powers are helpful as all heck for town. She's been acting pro-town thus far and I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt because Glow Cloud is OP and Town needs all the help it can get.
Silvanus as a baddie... maybe. Should be considered.
*Still* inclined to vote Krackenor over Kira, because then we'll get the scoop on his powers and what the lich seed really does and how it works. That'll help us either give Ushaara the all clear or lynch the dirty cultist.
But yeah. I'll go Kira if that's what town wants to see instead.
----------------
Nightvale Citizens:
1. Sylandra - The Glow Cloud. ALL HAIL. (tricksy death evader, one-time day-ender, and limited mind-controller)