Daily Credits Coming Soon!

EstarraEstarra Administrator, Moderator Posts: 1,035 Creator
As has been mentioned before, Lusternia's activity has experienced a rapid decline in activity. As such, Lusternia will transition to a "Free to Play" game, much like Imperian has done. Credits will still be sold on the website and elite memberships will still remain available in order to cover costs, which includes coding support. Also, we plan on participating in promotions where we can, though our focus will be on development, not promotions. The big change for players will be the ability to earn credits in-game, up to 20 bound credits/RL day. Also, cities and communes can earn credits every game year. The changeover is scheduled to occur February 15 (or that weekend).
When the changeover occurs, the retirement value of your character will be locked and no longer change. Those characters may continue to be able to retire at any time after that point, but they will not be able to increase retirement value by earning more credits. New characters will not be able to retire. Also, you will no longer be able to use retirement credits from other games on Lusternia.

Here is a tentative list of how characters and organizations will be able to earn credits in Lusternia.

All characters will be able to earn up to 20 BOUND credits per RL day. Some activities will have a constant credit reward whiles others will change depending on how many times you perform it. The decrementing rewards will reward 5 credits for the first time, 4 the second time etc down to 1 credit per each time.

   * Killing mobs
      * Tiered system of rewards, getting progressively harder the more you kill.
      * Starts at 100, 250, then 500 and every 500 from then on.
      * Only worth 1 credit each time.
   * Influencing mobs<br />
      * Tiered system of rewards, getting progressively harder the more you influence.
      * Starts at 100, 250, then 500 and every 500 from then on.
      * Only worth 1 credit each time.
   * Quests
      * A new quest difficulty rating will be applied to quests, rating goes from 1-10 (easy to hard).
      * Daily credits only awarded on a rating of 3 or better. The higher the rating, More credits are earned.
      * Can only receive credits once per quest per weave.
   * Aetherhunting (like killing/influencing mobs
      * Tiered<span style='background-color: transparent;'> system of rewards, getting progressively harder the more you kill.</span>
      * Everyone on the ship benefits at once.
      * Starts at 100, 250, then 500 and every 500 from then on.
      * Only worth 1 credit each time.
   * Doing 12 commodity quests earns a credit reward. You can only earn this reward once per village, per day.
   * Complete a Guild Task earns a credit reward.
   * Power Quests (Only from the city/commune power quests)
      * Tiered system - First 25, 50, 100 and every 100 after that.
      * Only worth 1 credit per tier.
   * Helping 15, 30, multiples of 30, scholars, bards and/or pilgrims earns 1 credit.
   * Slaying supermobs (anyone that hits it will get credit).
   * Participating in village revolts
      * Participating credit for Shattering an enemy, influencing a villager or spending 10 mins in the village
      * Only once per weave (can't get credit for more one village, even if you help with multiple)
   * Participating in Aether Flares
      * Participating credit for being locked in during a bombard
      * Focusing the bubble for 10 minutes.
      * Same as villages, can only do once.
   * Participating in Wild Nodes
      * Uprooting/Planting an enemy node
      * Spending10 mins on Astral during nodes.

Organizations can earn credits every game year based on their participation in events that they can use to award their members. Even if they lose an event, a city or commune gets points for participating (though winning an event would be weighted more). The city or commune with the most points will win 1000 credits, second place wins 900 credits, third wins 800 credits, and all other orgs receive 700 credits.
   * Village Revolts
      * 10 points if on scoreboard
      * 25 points for winning
   * Aether Flares
      * 10 points if on scoreboard
      * 25 points for winning
   * Wildnodes
      * 10 points if on scoreboard
      * 25 points for winning
   * Library/Theater Contests
      * 50 points for winning
      * 10 points per play produced (max 5 plays/year)
      * 5 points for publishing a book (max 10 books/yr)
   * Org members win Ikon Tournament
      * 15 points for winning
      * 10 points for second place
      * 5 points for third place
   * Public Designs
      * 5 points/public design submitted by org members, up to max of 50 points

If you are interested in helping test before release, please contact Orael.
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Comments

  • ShaddusShaddus , the Leper Messiah Outside your window.Member Posts: 8,044 Transcendent
    Geeze. Every org will get at least 700 credits an ingame year?

    Bob Junior says, "I had a party hook onnce. Lost it iNsiDee of soMe buxsm dracnari maiden, I thiik."
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    Whats the plan for in game generation of non credit items such as aethergoop, crystals and old promo items?
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,425 Transcendent
    Shaddus said:
    Geeze. Every org will get at least 700 credits an ingame year?

    I had requested that the difference in rewards between #1 and #6 not be an insurmountable gulf, else it just puts struggling orgs even further behind.  I personally am glad to see them being this similar (though the numbers do seem high).
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  • PortiusPortius Likes big books, cannot lie Member Posts: 1,494 Transcendent
    I have concerns about some of these. I'm gonna apologize now for my garbage formatting, I am not wrassling with quotes.

    Personal:

    -Power Quests (Only from the city/commune power quests)
          * Tiered system - First 25, 50, 100 and every 100 after that.

    I'm not positive, but I think each org has a different number of possible completions per reset on the quest? Mag seems to have tons of spectres compared to Halli's spheres, for example. It's been a while so I can't produce numbers offhand, but people who can should probably verify equality there. Maybe weight the quests some to get org equality.

    - Complete a Guild Task earns a credit reward.

    Highly exploitable because guilds set their own tasks. Some are harder than others. And that's by design, because tasks can be worth different numbers of points! I do not like having that sort of external pressure, no matter how small it is, on picking advancement tasks.

    Organization:

      * Library/Theater Contests
          * 50 points for winning
          * 10 points per play produced (max 5 plays/year)
          * 5 points for publishing a book (max 10 books/yr)

    Books do not have equal lengths. I could publish a 10k word book and get the same points as a 20 word book.

    And there is a lot of precedent for people publishing tiny books like that in the form of single poems. That doesn't matter much in terms of points due to the cap, but it does create a strong incentive for libraries to push a set of tiny books out each year just to score the basic points. I'm concerned both because it encourages spamming really tiny books that would be better if they were consolidated and because it adds another optimization obligation to librarians.
    Any sufficiently advanced pun is indistinguishable from comedy.
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    Having the org points scaled to the length of book sounds a decent idea.
  • SaranSaran Member Posts: 2,015 Transcendent
    Has it been confirmed that the value requirement for retirement is dropping as imperians did?
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  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,425 Transcendent
    Portius said:
    I have concerns about some of these. I'm gonna apologize now for my garbage formatting, I am not wrassling with quotes.

    Personal:

    -Power Quests (Only from the city/commune power quests)
          * Tiered system - First 25, 50, 100 and every 100 after that.

    I'm not positive, but I think each org has a different number of possible completions per reset on the quest? Mag seems to have tons of spectres compared to Halli's spheres, for example. It's been a while so I can't produce numbers offhand, but people who can should probably verify equality there. Maybe weight the quests some to get org equality.

    - Complete a Guild Task earns a credit reward.

    Highly exploitable because guilds set their own tasks. Some are harder than others. And that's by design, because tasks can be worth different numbers of points! I do not like having that sort of external pressure, no matter how small it is, on picking advancement tasks.

    Organization:

      * Library/Theater Contests
          * 50 points for winning
          * 10 points per play produced (max 5 plays/year)
          * 5 points for publishing a book (max 10 books/yr)

    Books do not have equal lengths. I could publish a 10k word book and get the same points as a 20 word book.

    And there is a lot of precedent for people publishing tiny books like that in the form of single poems. That doesn't matter much in terms of points due to the cap, but it does create a strong incentive for libraries to push a set of tiny books out each year just to score the basic points. I'm concerned both because it encourages spamming really tiny books that would be better if they were consolidated and because it adds another optimization obligation to librarians.
    1) Mag has tons of spectres, but it takes multiple spectres to make a spike.  They can only make about as many spikes per hour as other orgs do for their own power quest.  Still, there is a difference in difficulty (Glom's is the easiest, followed closely by Serenwilde's).

    2) What I'd end up doing there is making a guild task worth 0 points (doesn't affect advancement) that people can do multiple times.  Make it semi-complex.  That way people have the option of doing a guild task for this without forcing them to feel like they need to "grind" other tasks.
    But you know, if the intent of the system just drives people to find ways to work around it, maybe it should be rethought.

    3) Adjusting for length of books is fine by me.  Points = weight of published book divided by 10, floor of 1 point.  Seems easy to do since weighting already exists.
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  • Yasei  野生Yasei 野生 Member Posts: 80 Capable
    Shaddus said:
    Geeze. Every org will get at least 700 credits an ingame year?

    I'm hoping orgs will be liberal with their credit sales and rewards now
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,425 Transcendent
    Another concern: You can't do village org comm quests if you're enemied to the controlling village.

    Any way to make the comm quests check for the underlying village enemy status instead of the controlling org, so people can't be blocked from doing these quests by being enemied to the org(s) that have the bulk of the villages?
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  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,112 Mythical
    I believe these org credit rewards are in line with Imperians. 

    Please quit asking for changes on crap based on your own gut feelings.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,425 Transcendent
    edited February 11
    Steingrim said:
    I believe these org credit rewards are in line with Imperians. 

    Please quit asking for changes on crap based on your own gut feelings.
    Not quite sure what you're going on about here; only change asked on the org thing was "please make sure that there's not a huge disparity."  When the numbers were first discussed, it was something like 500 for top org and 100 for the bottom orgs, which is a significant percentage difference and (to my mind) very unfair in that it just rewards the most populated orgs and encourages people to be part of the ones that are "winning".

    Aside from that, it's just been said that it looks like a lot of credits.  If they want to give that many, it's not like we're going to stop them. :P
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  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,112 Mythical
    I this just another example of something being already coded and too late to make suggestions that fundamentally change things? 

    In short this system should reward people for playing the game as it is meant to be played and less turning lusternia into some makework version of 'let me log in and to a bunch of tedious crap'

    @Estarra I'll leave it to players who have played IMP more than I, but this looks like orders of magnitude harder to gain credits than in IMP.

    If for no other reason you have us killing smobs, where I believe there then have mini-boss mobs which are far easier to kill than smobs.

    But also they have a system that kinda virtualizes areas to kill denizens.

    It also may be the case that you are introducing further  burden for the orgs which are not mag/celest smobs such as halli/gaudi with their still easier to kill smobs?

    This does not look like a system where average people are not likely to get 20 credits in about three hours (which I am told is the case in IMP).

    Yes, you can run around and script some stuff to get this with quests, but overall this seem far more heavy in pushing quests then IMP's system seems.

    Why are there no rewards for domoths?

    ------- 

    My suggestion:

    I really dislike how this creates these bins and fences around the tasks instead of rewarding players for being generally helpful and playing the game in a way they might enjoy.

    For instance:

    * Tiered system of rewards, getting progressively harder the more you kill.

    Starts at 100, 250, then 500 and every 500 from then on.

          * Daily credits only awarded on a rating of 3 or better. The higher the rating, More credits are earned.

    Why have a spreadsheet system at all?

    Given you clearly have a way to build in diminishing returns...

    So why not 1) diminish the points and 2) cap certain types of points and then have the tiers be set reward levels?

    Example: 

          * First 100 denizens slain: reward 10 point per.
          * After 100 denizens slain: reward 8 point per.
          * etc
          * After 500 denizens slain: reward 2 point per.

          * First 100 denizens influenced: reward 10 point per.
          * After 100 denizens influenced: reward 8 point per.
          * etc
          * After 500 denizens influenced: reward 2 point per.

    Then just have the reward being every 1000 points. This way if someone kills 99 denizens and influences 99 denizens they get a credit, but further they can do something minor and get that second credit.

    Doing this system this way makes it far easier to understand for casual players and greatly adds the flexibility to give points to other things which cannot form their own tier.

    The messaging can even reflect the reduction in effect to help clue in players. aka You've gained 2 points for killing an x.

    The current system says, "No matter how much you may need to do these quests. No matter how much your org is telling you to do these quests. No matter how many times you have done these quests and no matter how much harder it is doing these quests then it is to just run in some bards...no credits for you!"

    Instead of having quest rankings, have quest points!

    If the admin only think a quest is worth 100 points, okay, but at least it contributes to the player's total. You can still not give them additional points for repeating the quest.

    But at least you can give some points out for doing things like birthing sea turtles.

    You could for instance give people points for rebuilding those smobs you're telling the player base to go kill rather than telling them, oh that's not the city power quest, so nothing for those six hours you just spent.

    Imagine the flexibililty. Rezz a newbie 100 points. Take a newbie on a hunt +x points per kill?

    Craft some stuff +x points.


    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • EnadonellaEnadonella Member Posts: 392 Expert
    edited February 11
    Quest rankings are my main concern. What might be easy for some will be excruciating for others. Such as the Cay. I love the Cay, find it easy, but some can not for life nor limb make the magic number puzzle work for them.

    And how will epics be handled? Because if we have someone working towards an epic and someone else logged in for half an hour for quick credits on an alt and rushed a part of the quest they then have to wait for another New Moon or what ever is relevant to the org, although I think only Seren/Glom are time specific?

    @Steingrim I'm a bit iffy about the idea of people bashing up noobs for credits. That puts pressure on players to oblige one another for the sake of credits, and advancing noobs too quickly  (not alts) I believe is one of the problems we have in people leaving the game too quickly or the generation of 'boredom'. They haven't worked for it, they haven't learnt anything along the way because everything was done for them, and once they reach demi they often feel like there is nothing left to do except become a combatant which is semi expected of them from the people that level them. It's a bad practice and one of my pet hates. But I like the idea of rewarding people for community service. Just not bashing... <3 

    Edit: On the note of boredom, I think the longer a player has to take leveling up the more they learn about the different aspects of the game when they take breaks and have a greater chance to have more conversations and meet more players. It's just one of those things I am passionate about in the game. Let noobs be noobs!

    I like that the org credits are nominally different because it places more onus on the aspect of an honour win more than a prize win. One thing I would like to see change is the balancing of culture contributions. Some orgs lack players that are more inclined to spend their game time writing plays/books and the other contributions for culture aren't as effective leaving us without a way to increase our culture.

    I do not want to detract from the competitive nature of the library (even though it has been stated there are no standards for what is and isn't approved, it just depends on the mood of the one approving the book) I would however like to see something implemented that allows for players to contribute to culture that is on par with having books published. whether that is giving domoths a culture buff, buffing the quests for bards/scholars, creating or buffing org quests to count for future, or some other task.


    I stand by the Oneiroi's decision to pull the book from the public library. I will specifically withdraw the Oneiroi's reason why and replace it with my own words which I've stated to you several times: We reserve the right to pull writings in the public library in our sole and absolute discretion. Any reason given for pulling a public writing is out of courtesy only and not to be taken as a precedent or a rule.
  • SteingrimSteingrim Member Posts: 1,112 Mythical
    @Enadonella the types of rewards do not need to be so high as to make them practically mandatory. But I'm not wedded to the idea. in fact it was more of a would it be possible to reward guild members for spending efforts helping newbies, tasks, etc...and I just took the easy way out and focused on hunting.

    I think there's something that hasn't been addressed much here and that is the psychological impact of doing things and knowing you're not getting 'credit' for doing things because there's some arbitrary list saying what you're doing and what you like to do isn't valid. Of course they'll always be gaps, but I'd like to see even token points given for most things that can be quantified.

    I've also spent some thoughts on the orgs, and I think I'd rather see a different system for that as well.

    I'd rather see a base amount and fixed credit bonuses for things. Won prestige, has second largest library, each village, etc. You could still do something like 100 to the org with the most points, 50 to second.

    The reason I think this is better is the current proposal is more of the don't even bother if you can't place meta. My suggestion would actually mean if you had a single player that was willing to bust their butt on a single aspect you could be proud of that player for your org and your org would be best at that one thing.
    You tell Wyrden Ravager Tarken, "Come to Gaudiguch. I'll give you the title of Grand Moth."
    Eyes peering skywards as he thinks, Ironbeard the Magnanimous says to Sksez, "Welll, on my gooD lis *hic* t, we have....Stei *hic* ng *hic* rim.U..Xypherv....Luu *hic* hghaigh *hic* hhe....Breandryn....."
  • NeelaNeela Member Posts: 62 Capable
    Quest rankings are my main concern. What might be easy for some will be excruciating for others. Such as the Cay. I love the Cay, find it easy, but some can not for life nor limb make the magic number puzzle work for them.

    (I'd hope to see it be a calculation of average time to complete, making it relatively easy pick and choose)

    And how will epics be handled? Because if we have someone working towards an epic and someone else logged in for half an hour for quick credits on an alt and rushed a part of the quest they then have to wait for another New Moon or what ever is relevant to the org, although I think only Seren/Glom are time specific?

    (It would be very easy to fuck over most of the epic quests with this and will likely require a lot of player policing to avoid them becoming a clusterfuck of immense proportions)

    @Steingrim I'm a bit iffy about the idea of people bashing up noobs for credits. That puts pressure on players to oblige one another for the sake of credits, and advancing noobs too quickly  (not alts) I believe is one of the problems we have in people leaving the game too quickly or the generation of 'boredom'. They haven't worked for it, they haven't learnt anything along the way because everything was done for them, and once they reach demi they often feel like there is nothing left to do except become a combatant which is semi expected of them from the people that level them. It's a bad practice and one of my pet hates. But I like the idea of rewarding people for community service. Just not bashing... <3 

    (I think that the majority of this game is in knowing your skills, and that level is simply a factor of power. You can get to level 100 without transing any of your skills. And to me that a bit of an indication that level has NOTHING to do with knowledge of the game or knowledge of your character. As it is this is also a relatively PVP focused game, and if you are at max level and just hang around, I can see why the people who do do the content that benefits you(Defending cosmic/Ether, defending elemental lords, doing things to contribute power that place additional risk on yourself, etc.) would be frustrated if they put an investment of time and ingame(Or sometimes out of game) money on you getting to demi, and you then proceed to go inactive or non-contributing... That would likely put a damper on their spirits.)

    Edit: On the note of boredom, I think the longer a player has to take leveling up the more they learn about the different aspects of the game when they take breaks and have a greater chance to have more conversations and meet more players. It's just one of those things I am passionate about in the game. Let noobs be noobs!

    (I would say let noobs be noobs so long as they don't have the desire and willingness to push themselves up beyond that. But when they show a willingness to help, contribute and push themselves to Demi... Fucking boost the shit out of them. Level matters for little in this game beyond raw power. There's no arbitrary limits on skills that require you to be supramortal or titan before you can unlock them... Closest you get is powers at demi, which have been steadily nerfed supposedly)

    I like that the org credits are nominally different because it places more onus on the aspect of an honour win more than a prize win. One thing I would like to see change is the balancing of culture contributions. Some orgs lack players that are more inclined to spend their game time writing plays/books and the other contributions for culture aren't as effective leaving us without a way to increase our culture.


    I do not want to detract from the competitive nature of the library (even though it has been stated there are no standards for what is and isn't approved, it just depends on the mood of the one approving the book) I would however like to see something implemented that allows for players to contribute to culture that is on par with having books published. whether that is giving domoths a culture buff, buffing the quests for bards/scholars, creating or buffing org quests to count for future, or some other task.

    (I like that you seem to be wanting a way to essentially blob a culture win for a faction that wouldn't be at that point contributing to the games overall culture and lore, but rather leeching off of it.)

  • EnadonellaEnadonella Member Posts: 392 Expert
    @Neela I think you missed the point about noobs completely. It isn't about the level of the character it is about the time and effort invested to achieve something that encourages the noob to learn more about the game as they go. If all you are focused on is leveling then you can miss some of what makes being a noob such a fond memory for those of us that did take considerably longer than a day, or even a week, some of us more than a month if you can imagine that! There is a sort of community feel about it that is stolen from a noob when they are just dragged up to demi. But times change and there is value in having idle demis I suppose...yet to see it. But I am sure it is there.
    I stand by the Oneiroi's decision to pull the book from the public library. I will specifically withdraw the Oneiroi's reason why and replace it with my own words which I've stated to you several times: We reserve the right to pull writings in the public library in our sole and absolute discretion. Any reason given for pulling a public writing is out of courtesy only and not to be taken as a precedent or a rule.
  • KistanKistan Member Posts: 289 Gifted
    I think it would have been nice to show guilds a little love.

    Points for individuals, points for cities, nothing for guilds in the middle?

    Will they just become increasingly irrelevant (except for being asked to set and award 20 easy tasks a day)?
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    edited February 11
    Hi so I just noticed I missed a discussion on the discord with the admins about how the system may work compared to Imperians. 

    It seems theres a few misconceptions about how the Imperian one works.

    I'm just going to run through some differences here and point out some potential issues and suggestions.

    As a note on terminology I'm going to use the word tick to refer to a daily credit reward and credit for a single credit. Eg earning your first credit tick will count as 5 credits in Imperian. Earning your first credit will count as earning 1 credit. This is because in imperian there is a difference in how the rewards work with certain things giving ticks to earn you 5 credits/4credits/3credits/2credits/1credit/etcs and then there are rewards that simply reward you with a single 1 credit.

    I'm also not going to go into detail or even talk about every way to get rewards in imperian because some as just so few and far between. Such as getting 10 credits for summoning a plague.

    1. Bashing.

    With bashing Imperian has 2 ways to earn credits by bashing. They have something lusternia doesn't called spawn wave areas. This means that as you bash an area and kill a certain number of mobs in it, a new wave spawns, then as you kill a certain number of spawn you complete the area. Completing the area rewards you with a tick of a reward. So for the first area you complete you get 5 daily credits. The second you get 4 and so on. With certain areas having a min credit reward.

    In addition to this in Imperian you get a single credit for killing 100 mobs, then 250 etc. So as you are completing an area you are getting 1 credit.

    In an example I go and complete 2 areas quickly. For example the Redwood cottons and Shuglarn Dunes areas can be completed in about 20 mins and I'll kill about 200 mobs in each area roughly speaking, So let us say I kill 200 in Redwood before completing it. I will earn 1 credit as I hit 100, and then I will get 5 credits for completing the area. So I have 6 credits after about 20 mins of work. Then I move onwards to Shug Dunes and start bashing there I hit the 250 mark and get +1 credit, now I have 7, I complete the area before I hit 500 kills so don't get the extra for that. Then I complete the dunes area and am awarded +4 credits. Sitting at 11 credits for 40ish mins of work solo.

    In a second example. Their underworld is compareable to our astral.  Its a spawn wave area like the rest and it rewards daily credits on completion, a min of 10. Top bashers can run through it in about 1hr, it takes me about 2hrs15 or so. I'll kill over 1000 mobs to complete the area in this time. So at the end of it I'll have earned the kill credits of +4(if this is the first place I bash) then +10 for completing the area. For a total of 14 in 2hr 15 of bashing.

    So entirely bashing and doing nothing else I will earn my full daily rewards in about 3hrs.

    EDIT: A note I forgot to speak on, above I am speaking entirely solo, in groups the rewards are achievable together. Completing a spawn wave area with a friend gives you the full reward as long as you both kill at least 30% of the mobs in the area. So for example me and Ena go and bash out these two spawn wave areas and our kills are split aprox 40% to 60%. We both get full tick rewards for it. In example one we'd have both got 5 then 4 credits for finishing redwood cottons and the dunes. In the second example we'd have both got 10 credits for completing the underworld. Its beneficial to bring a friend along when bashing your daily credits as you bash faster and get the same essential rewards. So for example in the first example in 40 mins solo I'd get them rewards but with 2 bashing can cut that time down to 20 mins etc.


    Issues with Lusternia vs Imperian in regards to bashing.

     Lusternia has no spawn wave mechanism to allow "completing" areas currently. The spawn wave concept is a big reason why the daily credits and bashing work so well in Imperian. Imperians current reward system is much faster and stronger when we look at bashing than the above suggestions for Lusternia.

    A suggestion I would have for Lusternia would be to use the points system we have in place already for great hunts or death/harmony so that we have a system that is similar but different to Imperian.

    If Lusternia were to give you a daily tick rewards per points earned that would sort of replace the spawn wave reward that Imperian has.

    For example a high tier mob here could be worth 20 points and a mid 10. If we say you get a daily credit tick for reaching 1000 points or something similar. Then you kill 100 kephera at 10 points in a hive and thats one tick for a day. Not sure about the exact numbers you'd have to check in a bit more details before deciding to be sure.

    2. Questing

    Imperian gives no rewards for questing. So adding rewards in for Lusternia could also be a solution to the above bashing issue instead of the points based system. Perhaps for example handing in 200 kephera corpses to the illithoids would count for 1 daily credit reward. So in this example I go bash out the hives and hand in 1000 corpses. I've got my credit reward for killing at 100 250 500 and 500 earning me 5 credits in total. Then I go and hand in the 1000 and get 5 ticks of a reward so I earn credits: 5 4 3 2 1 (15 credits in total from the hand in) then plus the 5 I earned earlier for the total of 20 in a day for a about 2-3 hours bashing. This concept would make the Lusternia rewards about similar to the Imperian ones.

    No issues here with questing as Imperian doesn't do it so anything you could come up with will probally be an improvement to the system.

    3. Conflict 

    The main comparison between Lusternia and Imperian in terms of conflict is that firstly Imperian has a lot more conflict events that are much smaller in scale. This means that there are frequent opportunities to earn a reward tick. 

    Imperian has 2 events that happen on roughly a 5hour schedule shardfalls and caravans, they can take about 20 mins to complete and you can earn generally one or two credit ticks per event. For example their caravan conflict system has you getting a credit tick for every time you loot a caravan a set number of times. A caravan appears roughly  every 5 hrs and is an open pk event.  So if I am successful if fighting and winning it, I could perhaps earn two ticks and thus earn 9 credits in total in a short space of time if it is my first thing to do in the day. 

    Imperian has less frequent but large scale events that have to be initiated so will only occur if people are pushing it. Raiding is a mechanics system there that must be initiated. They have what are essentially island domoths as well to capture. Taking part in these rewards ticks. These would maybe be more comparable to our domoths, something that has to be started by the places specifically.

    Imperian has a champion system in which you sign up to be a champion. It makes you open pk anywhere. By simply being champion you will earn a daily credit tick for every hour you are not in a safe area(not inside an org or city zone). Eg I go bashing for an hour and I earn a credit tick because I'm in a risky area.

    Imperian has Monoliths which are held by a single person. Holding them counts generates you daily credit ticks every 12 hours. Even if offline. 
    Their monolith system is a bit similar to domoths but on a much smaller scale. You lose the Monolith on any death, even to mobs.  I could perhaps see holding a domoth giving a daily tick every 24 hours or something though.

    Issues with Lusternia vs Imperian in regards to conflict.

    The first most important issue I see is that Imperian has much much more frequent conflict events. It's highly likely that any Imperian player will be online during at least one or perhaps two conflict events if they log in on a daily basis for a few hours a day. Our events are much much less frequent which will mean players have much less opportunity to take part in them. My simple suggestion for this would be that the rewards for taking part in villages, flares and such be much greater. For example giving a min of 10 credits for capturing a village.

    There is no champion system here, although one could perhaps be added in easily enough. Lusternia champion removes any hiding devices you have such as cloak and puts you on a championwho list that shows your location or something and then you get a daily credit tick for being in a non safe area every hour? Maybe not sure if this is needed or not but its a nice touch.

    As a suggestion one thing I did notice that Lusternia has that Imperian doesn't is an already in built way of tracking and rewarding credit based on kills and participation. Look at the family logs and how they work, by being part of wildnodes/revolts/murdering people, my family gets reward ticks. Perhaps Lusternia could mimic the family log code to do something similar with conflict. You get daily credit rewards for mass mayhem and murder, killing enemies to your organisation gets a tick if you kill enough in a certain time period. 

    3. Bosses/Supermobs

    This is a quick one but quite important. Imperian has boss mobs which take about 5+ decent people to kill in about 5-10 mins. Also Imperian has quite a lot of these boss mobs and these are neutral npc's that no one cares about defending. Killing one rewards a daily credit tick. Doing a boss bashing run with a group of allies is a very good way to cap out your daily credit rewards. You can get a group of people and rush through and kill about six bosses in maybe about half and hour or an hour. This will result in the entire group earning 15 of their daily credit ticks in a short time. As simply hitting the boss once counts for the reward when it dies(even if you die before it does), this means you can help power bash newbies to get their daily credits pretty easily. 

    When I played it was common for me to get a group together and do a boss run on the turn of the weave so that everyone basically has their daily credits nearly completed then its just a case of they just have to do a bit of bashing or conflict to finish off to get the full 20. Or just go on and kill a few more boss mobs to get a few more 1 ticks to push it up.


    Issues with Lusternia vs Imperian in regards to Bosses/Supermobs

    Lusternia has no real easy to do bosses like imperian does. Our super mobs are on a level vastly vastly stronger than the Imperian bosses. This in itself isn't too much of an issue but it does mean that Lusternia does not have an easy way to group bash up your daily credits in the way Imperian does.

    I covered some points in the bashing issue here but we could perhaps add to that as well. If we take the point system and instead of rewarding it to individuals we reward it to the squad as a whole. Then Lusternia could use squad bashing as a way to generate daily credits for a group in a similar manner as you can do in Imperian.


    Org credits

    I like the org credits not being too split up but I still think you should reward on a scale. Eg give 4th 700, 5th 650 and 6th 600. Its only a small difference but I think it'll help encourage orgs to be more active than to simply shrug and go hey 4-6th place is all the same so why try and push to level up from 6th to 5th.

    Also some of the points are a bit out of wack for what they do. A book earns you 50 points but a wild nodes win earns you 25. Surely to me the wild nodes win would be 50 points as well. And getting 10 points just for getting a single point in wild nodes seems a bit silly. Why not a scale. You get 50 points for a win 20 for second place, 10 for third, 5 4 3 for 4th-6th etc.

    I like the overall concept of the org points but feel it probably does need some tweaking.


    Post edited by Deichtine on
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    Quick summary of time scales.

    Though solo bashing entirely on my own I can earn 20 daily credits in about 3 hours.

    If I add in me being champion I earn my 20 daily credits in about 2 hours.

    I can group bash bosses to get everyone their full daily credits in about 1-2 hours depending on how strong the group is.

    I'd hope that Lusternia has a roughly similar level of earning as Imperian.


    Achievements

    An important side note as well is that Imperian also gives large credit rewards for achievements. 

    EG For a quick example of how you can earn a lot of credits from achievements in imperian:
    Winning your first ffa gets you 50 bound credits.
    Inking 500 tattoos gets you 100 credits.
    Killing 100 players gets you a 100 credit achievement
    Visting 150 unique areas gets you 50 credits.
    Killing 10 wraith bosses(group of 5 or so to kill) gets you 100 credits
    Killing 100,000 mobs gets you a free artifact worth 350 credits.
    Killing 100 champions gets you 1,000 credits
    Winning your first freeze tag gets you 100 credits
    etc

  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,425 Transcendent
    So basically we need two basic changes to make it roughly similar?
    1) More smobs akin to the gaseous cloier (the cloier has to be quested for and the quest can only be done on a full moon, so it's not ideal, but it is about the right strength for the discussion).
    2) A secondary tick system for killing / influencing akin to the "waves" challenge that is in addition to the # of kills tick itself (though being hordes of mobs would indeed explain why their killing tick is so darned high...)
    It would make sense for the secondary system to ride off of the CONSIDER points value though.  A certain number of points generated = 1 tick.
    image
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    I'm not too familiar with the cloier but I'll take your word for its power strength.

    Basically there's about a dozen or so boss mobs in the game that you can down easy enough with about 5 people. Although when I say easy these bosses tend to have a mechanic you need to or or the group wipes. Eg they summon a box you need to kill, they mark 1 person and that person needs to stop attacking until that person is unmarked.

    The jist if it is there is a bunch of bosses that you can get to fairly easily and wipe in a group run. Some do require some quest prep before hand, others are just sitting there all the time except for when dead.


  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    I just did a test run on Imperian to give you guys some practical numbers and time scales.

    This is me starting to path track to my first bashing area:
    12:02:23.535   You start speedwalking.


    These two are the credits for getting to 50 mobs kills and 100 mob kills.

    12:05:10.549   You just earned 1 daily credits. You can earn 19 more.
    12:08:25.758   You just earned 1 daily credits. You can earn 18 more.

    This is the reward for finishing the spawn area.

    12:14:36.090   You complete "Redwood Cottons" in 12 minutes with 148 of 197 kills.
    12:14:36.090   You just earned 5 daily credits. You can earn 13 more.


    Didn't hit the next kill reward of 250 yet but finish the dunes here.
    12:24:02.325   You complete "Shulgaran Dunes" in 8 minutes and 49 seconds with 85 of 163 kills.
    12:24:02.325   You just earned 4 daily credits. You can earn 9 more.

    Hit the 250 mob kills reward.
    12:26:53.324   You just earned 1 daily credits. You can earn 8 more.

    Finish the next area in the slave camp.
    12:36:28.706   You complete "Nagmara Slave Camp" in 10 minutes and 30 seconds with 95 of 161
    12:36:28.706   kills.
    12:36:28.706   You just earned 3 daily credits. You can earn 5 more.



    I get a Champion tick while hunting.
    12:44:10.074   You just earned 2 daily credits. You can earn 3 more.


    I finish in Khous, as a note khous is a harder area so it gives you a min of 3 credits no matter what time, its why I do it at the end so I do the easy areas first and the harder areas next.
    12:54:24.851   You complete "Khous" in 17 minutes and 9 seconds with 107 of 175 kills.
    12:54:24.851   You just earned 3 daily credits. That's all for today.



    As a note I ended up killing 446 mobs by the end of this hour. If we say lets take out champion time because not everyone will be one. Then I would end this example with 18 credits and need 2 more to finish the full 20.

    I could go complete the Ironwood grove for example or the Blighted hollow where I could get the 54 kills I need easily to push my kill meter up to 500 for 1 credit and then finish that area to finish. My best time in Ironwood is 8min 24 seconds, my best time in Blighted Hollows is 14mins 23 secs.

    As a note I am not the best basher by far. I have no crit buffs, no bashing wands etc.

    Just to show the best times vs my time:

    Blighted hollow my time: 14m, 23s
    Blighted Hollow server best 4m, 40s

    Kenuba Wastes out post my time: 37m29s
    Kenuba Wastes ou post server best: 11m,27s

    Underworld Khandava my time: 2h, 45m, 30s
    Underworld Khandava server best: 57m, 38s

    Underworld Antioch my time: 2h, 23m, 50s
    Underworld Antioch server best time: 52m 14s
  • EnadonellaEnadonella Member Posts: 392 Expert
    Cloier seems a bit harder than their mobs, but it has also been years since I killed the cloier. I think something a teeny tiny bit weaker, a jr cloier!
    I stand by the Oneiroi's decision to pull the book from the public library. I will specifically withdraw the Oneiroi's reason why and replace it with my own words which I've stated to you several times: We reserve the right to pull writings in the public library in our sole and absolute discretion. Any reason given for pulling a public writing is out of courtesy only and not to be taken as a precedent or a rule.
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    That pretty much getting to 20 daily credits in roughly an hour or so bashing in a group of 2 people. Results will vary bashed on bashing strength. My class in imperian is generally considered poor for bashing but my partner was in a class considered slightly above average but not top tier.

    For example myself and the partner in the group have no +% crit items buffs or consumables. We did that entirely on basic defs. Imp has ways to buff your crit in game with shards, which are sort of a consumable that we didn't use and it also has bashing artifacts and stuff which we don't have.

    So like the if you look at the my time vs server best time there thats a good idea of what a level 100, good group can do. (my times)

    Vs like the fully loaded bashes with lots of crit artifacts. So like the Xenthos's Yendor's Ixion's etc of Imperian will be doing these areas closer to the server best time than my time. So eg Xenthos in imperian could probally solo bash his full daily credits in under and hour by himself.
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    As a note I've got the full log and am happy to share it with Admin but do not wish to make it public to keep characters separate. 
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,425 Transcendent
    We have done cloier with 5 demis now.  Does not help a lot with newer people though, I suppose!

    Here is an idea.  Make a template for (temporary) smob garosaurs that you can sprinkle into areas.  They are about the strength of the cloier (or maybe a little weaker).  They are not aggressive, and killing them gives the tick.  Tie it in to the most recent event; there are still some linorii things running around and these garosaurs in the Basin have gone "out of control" due to all the space to run around and excess stuff to feast on.

    The plan would be to phase them out as other smobs are added / updated (as time and design resources permit).
    1) Korath in the Catacombs seems ideal for smob treatment.  Do not have to do anything except tweak his attacks and health.
    2) Dread Lord of Contagion.  Make a slightly easier way to spawn him on demand.  He is already smobby otherwise I think?
    3) Add some thematic smobs; for each one added, remove one of the temporary garosaurs (they are being hunted out).  Like there is a force of nature formed by the elfen of Caoimhe to defend themselves against the terrors of Wydyr, or a towering Igasho suiting up to go Snow Cat Spirit hunting, or Amhika's plant baby grew up and is now a massive strong plant blob.
    image
  • EnadonellaEnadonella Member Posts: 392 Expert
    edited February 11
    5 demis that have which artifacts and how many are ascendants of one kind or another?

    Edit: This needs to be viable for majority playerbase is all. 
    I stand by the Oneiroi's decision to pull the book from the public library. I will specifically withdraw the Oneiroi's reason why and replace it with my own words which I've stated to you several times: We reserve the right to pull writings in the public library in our sole and absolute discretion. Any reason given for pulling a public writing is out of courtesy only and not to be taken as a precedent or a rule.
  • XenthosXenthos Shadow Lord Member Posts: 6,425 Transcendent
    5 demis that have which artifacts and how many are ascendants of one kind or another?

    Edit: This needs to be viable for majority playerbase is all. 
    Yeah, I get where you are coming from.  The cloier is basically the easiest (semi-permanent) smob we have in the game so I am defaulting to it as a good base to work from.  There is nothing that says we can't adjust the strength of the new ones a bit (could even try halving the base damage for the new garosaurs as a test case, and use them to judge final strength for their permanent replacements-- somewhere between that and the cloier, I would suspect).
    image
  • DeichtineDeichtine Member Posts: 1,914 Transcendent
    Well when I say 5 people I do mean 5 level 100's. 

    So if you can bash down the cloier with that then yea it may sound right but for some reason I sort of remember the cloier being kinda tougher.


    But yea I sort of like the general thrust of your idea Xenthos.

    Its just you want people to be able to solo up their stuff if they need and like imperian 2 level 100's with decent skills should be able to bash up their 20 in about an hour together. Like Imperian is currently. 

    The bosses are more there for a super speedy run that you can do with novices and everyone else so that even though they are just newbies you can help them bash the bosses and get them their 20 credits a day in an hour or two.
  • MaekoMaeko Member Posts: 42 Capable
    For the record, in Imperian:

    Message #3923 Sent By: Eoghan Received On: 2/11/2019/14:41
    "Including limited availability event bosses such as the Pumpkin King, exactly 50 bosses currently exist that can give credit toward your daily credit limit. They vary in difficulty, each have some sort of mechanic unique to them that has to be figured out, almost all have some kind of party wipe mechanic, and some have minimum party sizes."
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