Crystal of the Learned - Floaty....crystal...thingy that lets you either learn one language like a bookbinder (if you aren't a bookbinder already) or one more language, if you are already a bookbinder.
Bookbinder by trade! Designer of most other things.
Hmm. Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I like one particular aspect of Thul's idea: Tattooarmour. Without access to Tattoos, you'd be able to get at most 61/61 armour (at least that's what I had on my monk alt some time ago). That'd definitely be above the norm for normal robes (which tend to hover around 50-55), but you'd be able to top it with splendours. Many would probably buy it for RP reasons (not everyone want to run around in a set of robes or a suit) and for the fact that it'd be non-decay.
Hmm. Y'know, the more I think about it, the more I like one particular aspect of Thul's idea: Tattooarmour. Without access to Tattoos, you'd be able to get at most 61/61 armour (at least that's what I had on my monk alt some time ago). That'd definitely be above the norm for normal robes (which tend to hover around 50-55), but you'd be able to top it with splendours. Many would probably buy it for RP reasons (not everyone want to run around in a set of robes or a suit) and for the fact that it'd be non-decay.
Robes can be non-decay too. Grab one of those runes of winter or summer bane and ta-da.
That said, I doubt you'd be seeing tattooarmour beyond 50/50 (if that, I seem to have the number 42/42 in my head) without the trans tattoos skill.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
First: Runes of Winter/Summer Bane shouldn't make robes non-decay. If they do, that's most likely a bug, given the following line in the helpfile:
- Attach rune to artifact of clothing (non-armour) to make it permanent
Second: I had 61/61 myself as a non-tattoos Monk. So that's what monks get as tattoo armour without trans tattoos. I think I saw 84/84 mentioned somewhere, which is what I assume trans tattoos get.
First: Runes of Winter/Summer Bane shouldn't make robes non-decay. If they do, that's most likely a bug, given the following line in the helpfile:
- Attach rune to artifact of clothing (non-armour) to make it permanent
Second: I had 61/61 myself as a non-tattoos Monk. So that's what monks get as tattoo armour without trans tattoos. I think I saw 84/84 mentioned somewhere, which is what I assume trans tattoos get.
Technically, enchanted robes are not armour. They are robes. The forging skill can make anything in between leather and plate, including scale and chain mail. I'm assuming it means attach the rune to a piece of clothing that is not armour... i.e. not leather, chain, scale or plate. Either way, I know several people who use those runes on a set of robes. Don't see why they'd need to be made otherwise if there is no trans tailoring skill that allows you to make robes permanent the same way forging does.
You are right... 61/61 is the tattoos armour for a non-tattoos monk (Or 84/84 for trans tattoos). For some reason, I had 42/42 in my head... was thinking it might have been so monks could actually be using robes unless they're tattooists. Anyways, what would the point be in giving everyone else tattoos armour? Who would go about buying robes in the first place when you really can't get non-splendours up much further than the 50/50 range? You're essentially killing a full skill from tailoring and another from enchanting that will from then on be used only for splendours. Never mind the artifact shears that are primarily used to redo robes without losing components so that you can get decent stats out of them.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
I'm pretty sure being able to attach them to great robes or splendours is a major bug. I feel like when they were made it was with the explicit intention if excluding them (no permanent great robes, splendours).
I'm pretty sure being able to attach them to great robes or splendours is a major bug. I feel like when they were made it was with the explicit intention if excluding them (no permanent great robes, splendours).
Can we have non-armour robes, then?
Everiine said: The reason population is low isn't because there are too many orgs. It's because so many facets of the game are outright broken and protected by those who benefit from it being that way. An overabundance of gimmicks (including game-breaking ones), artifacts that destroy any concept of balance, blatant pay-to-win features, and an obsession with convenience that makes few things actually worthwhile all contribute to the game's sad decline.
I'm pretty sure being able to attach them to great robes or splendours is a major bug. I feel like when they were made it was with the explicit intention if excluding them (no permanent great robes, splendours).
I dislike blurring the lines between guilds so much. Certain abilities should be universally available (preferably not in identical forms) but the idea of giving everyone access to every base skillset is offputting to me. And if we left it at just one or two base skillsets, that seems rather unfair to the guilds which use those skills - nevermind potential balance nightmares.
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EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I dislike blurring the lines between guilds so much. Certain abilities should be universally available (preferably not in identical forms) but the idea of giving everyone access to every base skillset is offputting to me. And if we left it at just one or two base skillsets, that seems rather unfair to the guilds which use those skills - nevermind potential balance nightmares.
But it's unfair that x guild has access to y skill and I don't! I demand equality and balance! BALANCE!
/sarcasm
I completely agree with you. There are way, way too many artifacts that duplicate a guild skill for everyone who can pay.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I dislike blurring the lines between guilds so much. Certain abilities should be universally available (preferably not in identical forms) but the idea of giving everyone access to every base skillset is offputting to me. And if we left it at just one or two base skillsets, that seems rather unfair to the guilds which use those skills - nevermind potential balance nightmares.
But it's unfair that x guild has access to y skill and I don't! I demand equality and balance! BALANCE!
/sarcasm
I completely agree with you. There are way, way too many artifacts that duplicate a guild skill for everyone who can pay.
A single skill isn't that big a deal... as long as it's not something major like every guild suddenly getting shadowtwist or somesuch. If it's a utility ability, there really shouldn't be an issue.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
First: Runes of Winter/Summer Bane shouldn't make robes non-decay. If they do, that's most likely a bug, given the following line in the helpfile:
- Attach rune to artifact of clothing (non-armour) to make it permanent
Second: I had 61/61 myself as a non-tattoos Monk. So that's what monks get as tattoo armour without trans tattoos. I think I saw 84/84 mentioned somewhere, which is what I assume trans tattoos get.
Technically, enchanted robes are not armour. They are robes. The forging skill can make anything in between leather and plate, including scale and chain mail. I'm assuming it means attach the rune to a piece of clothing that is not armour... i.e. not leather, chain, scale or plate. Either way, I know several people who use those runes on a set of robes. Don't see why they'd need to be made otherwise if there is no trans tailoring skill that allows you to make robes permanent the same way forging does.
You are right... 61/61 is the tattoos armour for a non-tattoos monk (Or 84/84 for trans tattoos). For some reason, I had 42/42 in my head... was thinking it might have been so monks could actually be using robes unless they're tattooists. Anyways, what would the point be in giving everyone else tattoos armour? Who would go about buying robes in the first place when you really can't get non-splendours up much further than the 50/50 range? You're essentially killing a full skill from tailoring and another from enchanting that will from then on be used only for splendours. Never mind the artifact shears that are primarily used to redo robes without losing components so that you can get decent stats out of them.
Because I'm willing to bet far from everyone is willing to spend credits just to get another +10/+10 and non-decay armour. Sure, there are those that would, but I'm going to guess that most of those would select Tailoring anyway to get Splendours anyway.
I was more thinking you'd only get the armour part, not the double DMP part. I think that should be exclusive to Monks. I guess I missed mentioning that tiny detail *cough*
Eternal Snowflake: Works just like the snoefaasia snowflake only it resets to your inventory.
Everlasting Bluebell: Works just like the bluebell fae quest item only it resets to your inventory.
Because making Wiccans the only guild that has to constantly quest to keep their skills is obnoxious and unfair.
While I don't have an opinion one way or another about artifacts that lend those ents, I feel the need to dismiss the underlying notion.
These are not your "skills" – they're quest rewards. Certainly, no one is arguing they should be able to keep the Repository artifacts in lieu of having to quest them regularly, etc. If you were required to quest for banshees, for example, the argument may hold water; however, these are distinctly different.
Essentially your argument comes across as: "Never again give Wicca a quest reward specific to their archetype."
To further underline my point: if we simply deleted Snoefaasia/Bluebell/Foxglove rewards, Wicca would not be losing a skill but a quest reward. These were never "yours" until you were suddenly forced to quest for them; they aren't even extremely critical nor the crux of Wiccan combat. They were added purely as an addition to Wicca because it was a) thematically appropriate and b) it was thought to be a nice reward for Wicca to be able to not only quest for some fae but to interlink the whole concept of "spirit of a flower".
I mean, I'm happy to support the idea of simpy deleting them as a quest reward if you feel it's overly burdensome that you have special, archetype-specific quest rewards available to you. Certainly, I imagine there are other guilds who would be happy to have that kind of flavor. I am, however, sorry that you don't enjoy that your archetype has those options made available to you down the road.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
edited April 2013
<P>I'm sorry, but that response gets under my skin. I'm not sure you are in a place to tell me what is and is not critical for Wiccan combat. I can't speak to the motivation of the admin that added in the fae, but I can speak on the application of the fae. Regardless of your personal perspective on this subject, snoefaasia are considered as Wiccan skills when balancing Wiccans, <EM>including in envoy reports</EM>. This is just the reality we've been dealing with. It would be stupid for us to act like the skill didn't exist because the admin think it's a "perk" rather than a high tier necessity that wiccans have had for a long time at this point that was suddenly taken away. We can't go back in time and redo reports to account for that. </P> <P>There's isn't some gray "perk" area for skills. We balance around the metagame, the min/max. For all intensive purposed, to compete at our best, we're supposed to have these fae (more snoefaasia than bluebell). We're supposed to have it and we have to quest for it. The admin made it a requirement, whether intentional or not, and can not now tell us it's not one, it's just a perk we don't need. </P> <P> </P> <P>tl;dr: Every time you introduce a new mechanic into the game, it become a part of the new meta discussion. Curios, fae, throne, whatever. We have to quest for skills to achieve the meta, end of story.</P> <P> </P> <P>But derailing with snarky "Well if you don't appreciate it, I can just take it away," remarks, and plainly miscontruing what I'm saying is super constructive. So let's keep doing that.</P> <P> </P> <P>edit: Snoefaasia was brought up in both my scourge and first twist reports in reference to a Wiccan's ability to hinder. So it's a part of endgame wiccan now. It's been referenced as a balancing factor for many months. </P>
There's nothing "misconstruing" about my statement – you're complaining you have to quest for something that was plainly intended to be a quest rewarded; nor is there anything snarky about it, I'm merely addressing your oft-repeated complaint that your archetype has quest rewards available to it. Quite seriously, if you don't like them, don't use them. If a lvl 1 influence bonus to weakening is so horrendously overpowering for Shadowdancers as to warrant the level angst that gets kicked up over it, then reconsidering the existence of foxgloves may be something that needs to be done. This isn't snark, it's a genuine statement.
I don't believe the argument that the target of balance should be with every possible 'buff' stacked on; certainly, balance can be achieved with things like bluebell, foxglove, and snoefaasia being considered optional perks. You don't/shouldn't need them, however they should be nice to have. Nobody makes the argument that it's unfair you have to quest for health/mana/ego blessings, for experience, for gold, for karma, etc, and that they should simply be free for anyone who wants them (or bought with an artifact, etc). Regularly we strive to come up with new/interesting quest rewards outside of 'gold/xp', and if allowing archetypes to get a special, temporary skill/ent/reward from doing a thematically appropriate quest is egregiously unbalancing, then maybe we shouldn't do them.
Not that any of that has to do with artifact ideas, of course. So my apologies for the derail – I'll stay out of it.
I agree with Celina here. A middleground would be just stopping them from ever decaying...you still do the quest but you keep it forever as an unlocked special skill! I feel this is fair to be honest. But that moves away from the whole artifact idea thinger...Why not envoy dat?
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
Well that's how it is in combatant and envoy land. We look at the absolute min/max because we have to, else outliers just break things. I don't know how to make it more clear.
Everyone can get health blessings, and lo and behold, they always find their way into balance discussions still.
Maybe you should post on envoys that snoefaasia is to be ignored, we should act like it doesn't exist. Maybe I can buff pigwidgeon then.
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Cyndarinused Flamethrower! It was super effective.
It's simple. Should we balance around snoefaasia? Yes: make it permanent. No: whoops, awkward.
Comments
Crystal of the Learned - Floaty....crystal...thingy that lets you either learn one language like a bookbinder (if you aren't a bookbinder already) or one more language, if you are already a bookbinder.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
That said, I doubt you'd be seeing tattooarmour beyond 50/50 (if that, I seem to have the number 42/42 in my head) without the trans tattoos skill.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
- Attach rune to artifact of clothing (non-armour) to make it permanent
Second: I had 61/61 myself as a non-tattoos Monk. So that's what monks get as tattoo armour without trans tattoos. I think I saw 84/84 mentioned somewhere, which is what I assume trans tattoos get.
You are right... 61/61 is the tattoos armour for a non-tattoos monk (Or 84/84 for trans tattoos). For some reason, I had 42/42 in my head... was thinking it might have been so monks could actually be using robes unless they're tattooists. Anyways, what would the point be in giving everyone else tattoos armour? Who would go about buying robes in the first place when you really can't get non-splendours up much further than the 50/50 range? You're essentially killing a full skill from tailoring and another from enchanting that will from then on be used only for splendours. Never mind the artifact shears that are primarily used to redo robes without losing components so that you can get decent stats out of them.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Charites question!
/sarcasm
I completely agree with you. There are way, way too many artifacts that duplicate a guild skill for everyone who can pay.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Eternal Snowflake: Works just like the snoefaasia snowflake only it resets to your inventory.
Everlasting Bluebell: Works just like the bluebell fae quest item only it resets to your inventory.
Because making Wiccans the only guild that has to constantly quest to keep their skills is obnoxious and unfair.
These are not your "skills" – they're quest rewards. Certainly, no one is arguing they should be able to keep the Repository artifacts in lieu of having to quest them regularly, etc. If you were required to quest for banshees, for example, the argument may hold water; however, these are distinctly different.
Essentially your argument comes across as: "Never again give Wicca a quest reward specific to their archetype."
To further underline my point: if we simply deleted Snoefaasia/Bluebell/Foxglove rewards, Wicca would not be losing a skill but a quest reward. These were never "yours" until you were suddenly forced to quest for them; they aren't even extremely critical nor the crux of Wiccan combat. They were added purely as an addition to Wicca because it was a) thematically appropriate and b) it was thought to be a nice reward for Wicca to be able to not only quest for some fae but to interlink the whole concept of "spirit of a flower".
I mean, I'm happy to support the idea of simpy deleting them as a quest reward if you feel it's overly burdensome that you have special, archetype-specific quest rewards available to you. Certainly, I imagine there are other guilds who would be happy to have that kind of flavor. I am, however, sorry that you don't enjoy that your archetype has those options made available to you down the road.
<P>There's isn't some gray "perk" area for skills. We balance around the metagame, the min/max. For all intensive purposed, to compete at our best, we're supposed to have these fae (more snoefaasia than bluebell). We're supposed to have it and we have to quest for it. The admin made it a requirement, whether intentional or not, and can not now tell us it's not one, it's just a perk we don't need. </P>
<P> </P>
<P>tl;dr: Every time you introduce a new mechanic into the game, it become a part of the new meta discussion. Curios, fae, throne, whatever. We have to quest for skills to achieve the meta, end of story.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>But derailing with snarky "Well if you don't appreciate it, I can just take it away," remarks, and plainly miscontruing what I'm saying is super constructive. So let's keep doing that.</P>
<P> </P>
<P>edit: Snoefaasia was brought up in both my scourge and first twist reports in reference to a Wiccan's ability to hinder. So it's a part of endgame wiccan now. It's been referenced as a balancing factor for many months. </P>
Everyone can get health blessings, and lo and behold, they always find their way into balance discussions still.
Maybe you should post on envoys that snoefaasia is to be ignored, we should act like it doesn't exist. Maybe I can buff pigwidgeon then.