So these are the afflictions that are done now. While I realise it's still a ways away, have there been any decisions on what the next batch of afflictions to be changed are?
Do we know what will cure the auric afflictions from bards - ego vice, mana barbs, achromatic aura and power spikes?
It will help trying to balance bard afflictions if we knew what cure balances we are working with. Sound could conceivably affect the mind, body and spirit. My envoy report is sad and lonely with no comments...
Currently bardic music affs and deafness work because earwort and horehound are on the same cure balance giving the bard about a second or so to re-deafen before their foe can start curing.
So it will need to be on the same balance as going deaf or change becoming deaf to take a second or two to kick in and a visible signal that someone has started the process. Something that will not be hidden by invisibility or shroud.
I blanked out on this thread's existence because it doesn't show up anywhere from the main page. So, some updates/answers to questions as I glance through the last page:
The mental affliction table is still up-to-date with the exception that we currently have clumsiness and addiction swapped on our end. It may change further, particularly in regards to deadening and impatience, when we make a final decision on focusing (which hasn't been done yet), since those afflictions are tied to the focusing mechanic.
I'm assuming we'll be working on the internal affs next, since there are complications with the external afflictions that are requiring more planning on our end. I'm not saying this for certain, though, and we don't have a finalized list ready yet.
The bard aurics are currently all slotted for the spirit cure.
We don't have any plans to change how any afflictions work so far as I'm aware, but that can may change, and will be announced. I'll note that Paranoia was a bit of an exception, because the change was predicated by a bug revealing another bug, rather than a change we had planned previously.
Regarding skills like Hexes, Poisons, etc., we don't have any definite plans yet. However, I will note we're still going to have a fairly large affliction pool, so even keeping the skills exactly as they are (reduced to Overhaul affs), they still have the potential to be fairly sizable, particularly since the remaining affs are, in general, more effective than the average effectiveness over all affs pre-overhaul. We might have to do some tweaking in cases like Runes if we end up running too short on runes to keep e.g. DeathProphesy working reasonably (as an off-the-top-of-my-head example), but those will be addressed as we see them crop up if necessary.
Bards racing to get 4 auric afflictions on someone will have very high synergy with aeon tactics. Some kind of focus ability or always having aeon cured first would be needed to avoid aeon mayhem or aeontopia or maybe even aeonsternia. I don't know how it will play out but there will be a clever nickname and it will be a thing and people will complain about it.
At the risk of horse beating, if bard aurics are on spirit then a a new mechanic to let them keep people from curing aurics will be needed. Currently we have a rhythm, if you will, of attack attack - wait for them to eat earwort so we are on eq and can blanknote right away then attack attack. If they can deafen themselves and cure an auric simultaneously it will make the chain exceptionally difficult. Octave only blocks curing them through eating horehound so allheale, passives, power cures and so on still work.
I feel that I should point out that even though I have no real grasp of the overhaul big picture, everything I say must be implemented as is or the game will be ruined and the zombie apocalypse will be unleashed.
In some cases can we throw in thoughts on replacements?
Giving confusion to hexes, combined with hexes being able to hide afflictions for cheap (free or 1p) means they have access to ectoplasms younger brother without the costs. Some guilds will be able to use this to be completely nuts, confusion is a very high strength aff unless we also can change what it does for awhile.
EDIT: Usually "change now, work with it later" is a bad model. In this case though, no one relies on confusion for part of their offense, so it seems safer to neuter it than to wait for overhaul to be done to get changes made. I have liked the rolling rollout by the way! Very well handled, gives time for system fixes and everything.
I'd be curious to know which of these afflictions are most certainly not going to be part of the overhaul system, now that I can see a clear list of them.
I have emerged from a great battle with the computer company who made my laptop and finally declared victory with a new computer.
I talked about it somewhere, but a lot of the inspiration for the overhaul's structure and purpose (for my part) is pulled directly from how aurics and bards function, so the aurics will be slotted all together under the same cure, as they are now.
Earache will most likely stay around because there is no substitute for it, and bards simply didn't function without it when they were first released. It's one of the unique one off afflictions we will most likely keep as we discussed earlier.
Hexes confusion is an excellent opportunity for an envoy report if it is believed to be that problematic. I don't have any strong feelings about it right now.
The final list isn't done as we are still working through a few of the affs and how/if they'll function in the end, but if you have questions about specific afflictions we have attempted to answer as openly as possible. If there is an affliction you wish to envoy but are uncertain of, feel free to ask.
You can reach me over envoys or in tells when I am around (usually later afternoon after 6:30 eastern time) or send me a message should I not be paying attention for a myriad of reasons. Posting on forums, as always, is also available for questions.
Can we please get first aid actually working for the afflictions that have been overhauled? As it stands, it's always a blast to run around on telnet... and end up getting murdered by your own meld due to paranoia, for instance.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Can we please get first aid actually working for the afflictions that have been overhauled? As it stands, it's always a blast to run around on telnet... and end up getting murdered by your own meld due to paranoia, for instance.
....Did you read the latest announce for the overhaul?
Can we please get first aid actually working for the afflictions that have been overhauled? As it stands, it's always a blast to run around on telnet... and end up getting murdered by your own meld due to paranoia, for instance.
That's actually the very next thing being worked on, yeah.
Can we please get first aid actually working for the afflictions that have been overhauled? As it stands, it's always a blast to run around on telnet... and end up getting murdered by your own meld due to paranoia, for instance.
....Did you read the latest announce for the overhaul?
This is me giving a nice prod (At least I thought it was nice... I did say please), but sure... let's jump on me as usual for making a post.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Can we please get first aid actually working for the afflictions that have been overhauled? As it stands, it's always a blast to run around on telnet... and end up getting murdered by your own meld due to paranoia, for instance.
....Did you read the latest announce for the overhaul?
This is me giving a nice prod (At least I thought it was nice... I did say please), but sure... let's jump on me as usual for making a post.
.......They said they're working on it, what more prodding needs to be done? If you want to be annoying, then sure prod away, but it's probably not going to speed things up, it's just going to annoy @Ieptix and then nobody wins. So yes, I'll point out you're being an annoyance when you're being one.
Have some patience, if you don't want to die on telnet, then don't log in on telnet.
Personally, I just hope that A) it will be out soon (so the overhaul doesn't get delayed too far), and either FirstAid is extended to deal with overhaul afflictions too, or the new replacement will cure all afflictions, not only overhauled ones. Either that, or the new command would be run automatically directly after FirstAid, so we wouldn't have to deal with using two curing commands, both of which would be likely to use balance.
My plan with first aid at the moment is to have a single set of commands that'll trigger both new and old mechanics behind one interface, allowing me to remove the old mechanics as they're phased out with minimal inconvenience for the user. We'll see how well it works out, but that's the goal.
As for when it will be released, I'm currently waiting on an incoming update to the Rapture engine that'll provide a feature I've been wanting for years now, which will make implementing first aid a lot cleaner on my end, as well as enabling some behind-the-scenes mechanics that I plan on using down-the-line for an in-game curing setup.
EDIT: I should note that the new Rapture version is/has already been stress-tested and such on one of the other IRE games, so we're not talking a "some time in the year 2020 this is maybe a thing that'll happen". If there are any delays to its being released, I'll be working on more afflictions so as to not stall out the Overhaul entirely. I'll be endeavoring to release hopefully this weekend the first aid mechanics that don't require the new Rapture features, as well.
A quick question: How will existing cures be handled when they become obsolete? For instance what will happen to every rift filled with sanguine when scalped, furrowedbrow, healthleech and haemophilia are all changed to the overhaul cures?
Dropping ecto and pox will mean lots of changes for the main nihilist kill method. Crucifix will probably be the ability that will need to be looked at hardest and given a makeover. A suggestion for me: make it not absolutely require balance loss stacking to stick, but also not make it shut down opponents so completely.
I don't really see the need for faeriefire and healthleech. Healthleech is like masochism - it's one of those small, incremental afflictions that do little noticeable damage, but which can end up being very potent over time because it is so unnoticeable... but which also doesn't stick for long, ever. It contributes to a damage kill ever so slightly, and is therefore useful because every point of damage counts. But other than that, it's deadweight. It provides no strategy in the current meta, and I don't see it doing so in post combat overhaul either.
Faeriefire is a good counter to hiding abilities... but people usually don't bother with it because it's not difficult to track to someone even if they slipped out of the room silently. It's only ever used to exploit systems which auto focus-spirit due to its huge mana cost, and for that reason, many people simply disable auto focus-spirit and plain ignore faeriefire... or keep it enabled and ignore faeriefire anyway. It's just... not a consideration in combat. You don't spend time mulling over "hrmm.... should I cure this... or should I cure faeriefire?" No point keeping it either, imo.
Yes, this does herald some major changes for how Nihilists will function. We will make changes on our side as we progress, but major changes will be left to the envoys. We have replaced omen with manabarbs to better mesh with Wrack to compensate to a degree, but I encourage the Mag envoys to get together to envoy possible changes to crucify and sacrifice.
Agreed to a point with healthleech, but the new system is designed for more strategic affliction stacking. It's not my favorite affliction, but it fit the bill in this situation. That being said, I am open to better suggestions.
Faeriefire is a notably underutilized affliction. It can actually be used to track writhes, most notably by druids, to great effect. Countering shroud, in general, can be a very useful tactic.
Yes, this does herald some major changes for how Nihilists will function. We will make changes on our side as we progress, but major changes will be left to the envoys. We have replaced omen with manabarbs to better mesh with Wrack to compensate to a degree, but I encourage the Mag envoys to get together to envoy possible changes to crucify and sacrifice.
Agreed to a point with healthleech, but the new system is designed for more strategic affliction stacking. It's not my favorite affliction, but it fit the bill in this situation. That being said, I am open to better suggestions.
Faeriefire is a notably underutilized affliction. It can actually be used to track writhes, most notably by druids, to great effect. Countering shroud, in general, can be a very useful tactic.
I was going to say that druids use faeriefire a lot, but then I remembered allergies is OP
If the ecto/pox/omen changes could be made later in the process that would be very helpful. It is going to cause a significant shift and the extra time and a better understanding of how things work will make that easier.
Nihilists will need a passive way to use manabarbs for this to have any use, and even then, it won't be. Manabarbs would mean pressuring mana does damage, but you use omen to do damage, as the drain from leech is crappy comparatively. This won't contribute to mana kills at all unless you have some big changes behind the scenes... and plan to make Nihilists able to stack this long term.
Ectoplasm becoming..... paralysis. Ectoplasm is a powerful affliction, but wow, paralysis?
Necromancy just got destroyed, where is the equalized destruction of sacraments so the whining will be equivalent?
@Llandros Would you rather paralysis or healthleech for pox replacement? This is a plague aff, so do you want plague affs to show in curing checks from paralysis and such.
Not a fan of the spiritual group at all, we destroyed necromancy being comparable to anyone else, but we left the single worst affliction in the game to deal with (aeon).
Was this intended to be a neutering of specific affs though? Like ectoplasm, hekoskeri, and maybe confusion will all be changed so we dont have balance/eq modifiers?
The advantage of pox is that it only had a chance to give a message when it fired so that it was less likely to be noticed. That helped with building plague affs. Worms is the only one that gave no message. Paralysis would have to be a priority cure so having an intentionally covert aff traded for one that would be insta cured is something to keep in mind.
Stacking spirit cures would be in my favor with the auric affs being spirit cures. However, pox is an utter trash aff so switching it out for a meaningful one could pose balance issues.
So to answer your question, every time I think about it I get a splitting headache and check my ears to see if there is blood coming out of them.
Comments
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Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Forgiveness is the fragrance that the violet sheds on the heel that has crushed it.
Mental
Spiritual
Anorexia (can't eat)
Slickness (can't apply)
Clumsiness (also replaces loneliness)
Aeon Curse (also replaces bedevil)
Confusion (also replaces agoraphobia, amplifyphobia) (DONE)
Disloyalty
Addiction (also replaces gluttony)
Egovice
Epilepsy (DONE)
Faeriefire
Hallucinations (also replaces claustrophobia, vestiphobia)
Healthleech (also replaces void)
Sensitivity (also replaces shyness, masochism) (DONE)
Pacified (also replaces lover's curse)
Recklessness (also replaces vapors) (DONE)
Powerspikes
Stupidity (also replaces Daydreaming, narcolepsy, hypersomnia)
Paralysed (also replaces ectoplasm, pox)
Paranoia (need to keep this to fight bards/demesne users) (also replaces dizziness, vertigo) (DONE)
Achromatic aura (also replaces punctured aura, remove puncture from dreamweaving)
Manabarbs (also replaces omen)
I don't really see the need for faeriefire and healthleech. Healthleech is like masochism - it's one of those small, incremental afflictions that do little noticeable damage, but which can end up being very potent over time because it is so unnoticeable... but which also doesn't stick for long, ever. It contributes to a damage kill ever so slightly, and is therefore useful because every point of damage counts. But other than that, it's deadweight. It provides no strategy in the current meta, and I don't see it doing so in post combat overhaul either.
Faeriefire is a good counter to hiding abilities... but people usually don't bother with it because it's not difficult to track to someone even if they slipped out of the room silently. It's only ever used to exploit systems which auto focus-spirit due to its huge mana cost, and for that reason, many people simply disable auto focus-spirit and plain ignore faeriefire... or keep it enabled and ignore faeriefire anyway. It's just... not a consideration in combat. You don't spend time mulling over "hrmm.... should I cure this... or should I cure faeriefire?" No point keeping it either, imo.
but I agree that paralysis seems like too major of a downgrade.