You're saying that a no lynch is better for town than a lynch at a suspect? A no lynch where we lose another two town members while we twiddle our thumbs because we just can't know for sure? That does sound scummy.
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Lavinya, your post looked really weird precisely because you do know better than to vote no lynch, and because even I've been getting heat for using a no lynch power on day 1. Which is literally the only day anyone thinks a no lynch is a potentially a pro town move.
I dunno what to tell you. Even if you're actually trying to help town, this is an unusual play.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Well, in my mind 3 dead bodies is distinctly worse than 2. However - if nothing else I think my error of judgement (as it appears to be a terrible faux pas) has shaken loose some reactions, which at least can reveal -something-.
Also consider - if Silvanus and I are on opposite teams, the smart thing for us to do is get rid of the other. We know each other very well. The more I think about it, the more I suspect Silvanus is not looking out for the town. He's almost always very up front and aggressive. History has shown I am too, when I am certain in either my safety or knowledge (ie when I was mason in mafia I had no power but I had insight and knowledge. As jailer in shakespeare I -knew- who was incapacitated and thus was not afraid to charge at them.)
If I'm going to be the sacrificial lamb, the town better at least be looking at who is voting me and why they say they are. (FACTS) At least my power isn't a valuable one, except to perhaps save one of your butts from a wrongful lynch. Pity I can't save myself. Alas. Haste in early days is not generally helpful to the town.
I don't really have anything else I can say at this point. I don't want to die?
SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
Honestly I wonder if you and Silvanus are on the same team. Offering that he planned to investigate you is a really bizarre move on his part, because you normally investigate someone you find suspicious. In which case he should have voted for you and kept quiet, choosing to investigate someone else tonight.
But Silvanus didn't vote for you. If anything he tried to stop us from lynching you with a promise to investigate you, with a one time investigative power. Curious no? And if you both happen to be mafia it's easy to pretend you were investigated.
This whole thing is quite odd and convincing me that voting you is the way to go.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
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SylandraJoin Queue for Mafia GamesThe Last Mafia Game
And even though I voted Lavinya today, if I had a one time investigative power, I don't think I'd use it on Lavinya. Silvanus even said earlier that of everyone present, I look most suspicious to him.
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
A trigger happy vigilante would be the norm for our mafia game.
I will say that Ieptix did say that this is a power intensive game, is this the work of someone using their power heavy actions?
What I am trying to say is that I am capable of killing at night, one time only, and this was not me, shockingly. I didn't kill anyone this night and how many trigger happy vigs can there be beyond the scope of me?
"Oh yeah, you're a naughty mayor, aren't you? Misfile that Form MA631-D. Comptroller Shevat's got a nice gemstone disc for you, but yer gonna have to beg for it."
Ok. A few theories after randomly looking around the wiki: Could our other killer be a vig that is part of the Sheriff's Secret Police, it seems the Police encourages citizens to enforce the law with vigilante justice? Or if there is more of the Secret Police force around, could they be the mafia themselves?
I'm fairly confident that the Secret Police isn't scum based on my own role. That's all I'll say at this point though.
Something I find odd about this wording. You choose to say Secret Police are not scum based on your own role.
Why would you say 'isn't scum' as opposed to 'is town'?
To be fair, I didn't put a whole lot of thought into that wording, so I can't really remember why I said "isn't scum" instead of "is town". Best guess after the fact? Because you said "might be mafia", so the most logical counter would be "no they're not". If it puts your mind at rest, you can substitute it with "is town" though.
Also, I tend to (at least in my head) bunch together any non-towns into the grand category "scum". So a SK would also be scum, etc. Thus, "isn't scum" would be synonymous with "is town".
Oh good! I'm only mildly hung over and stuff is actually happening now.
I'm actually glad someone else singled out the two people I feel have behaved most suspiciously. When I made a reference to 'wishy-washy' nothing posts, I was thinking specifically of @Lavinya and @Ellowyn.
But now we have this odd @Silvanus situation. He's being weird and not making sense. If I were in his position, I can't think of a single reason why I would make that bizarre reveal to give Lavinya another night of play.
I'm cool with lynching any of those three. I think it's the best we can do for day 2. And I don't care what anyone says: a no lynch *does not* help town. We have to lynch to win. Even if we make a mistake, we still learn things.
We have to live to win, as well. Killing off our own won't save us, either.
Those of you who are town, pay close attention. Wishy-washy nothing posts, huh? Try being in my position (don't know the theme, no night power) and see just how filled with information your posts are. I digress. Pay attention to who is voting me and why. Guaranteed they are not all town.
If nothing else, you might learn from those voting for me (because I guarantee killing me won't actually help the town any information wise - you'll know no more than if I was still alive, but you WILL have lost another town. But hey, killing off town wins for the town, right?) and you won't lose a very vital role.
I'm still pretty new at this, but do we really have enough information to be lynching people? This seems like a random kill to me.
Vote: Nobody
Problem is, by the time we have enough information to vote to lynch with certainty, the game is over. That's the only time we'll know for sure who the scum are. Before then, all we have to go on is gut feelings and best guesses.
That said, what really strikes me as odd about Lavinya in this instance is her voting for herself. No one has anything at all to gain by lynching themselves, so I'm starting to wonder if there's some strategy involved in that vote, such as trying to shake people off of voting for her (we've seen it work in the past on these forums). It's still very early in the day though, so for now I'll withhold my vote, but it doesn't inspire "town-ness" in my eyes.
It's a 'let's hurry this along then since there is literally not a thing more I can say to convince anyone I am town.'
I revealed my name and role (no counter claims), and no one seems to actually doubt them, but because I made the faux pas of voting nobody, I must be scum and need to go. All you will learn when I die is that I was honest (Dana the mayor, win with town, two time can save someone from lynch for that day)...but it won't actually implicate anyone else unless you like to analyse voting patterns. You know, the facts. Which are highly inconsistent.
So I don't know. Nothing bad will happen to anyone, I'm not a bomb or jester or anything like that. I am what I say I am. And man I hate having largely useless power in mafia games. Hmph.
Oh, and for the record, anyone accustomed to playing vengeance over forum mafia will know that it's not unusual to see a no lynch on more than the first day. It's just not the done thing here, apparently! So string me up, I really should be packing right now anyway >_>
It basically is a random lynch, yep. Or maybe more like a best-guess lynch. We've got nothing concrete (unless the other voters know something I don't know) but that's okay. We've got to try. I'm happy to change my vote if anyone comes up with a compelling reason to but being salty about it is just making it easier to keep my vote where it is. >_>
I came into the game without knowing the theme or anything but I've still been (hopefully!) reasonably constructive. But isn't this supposed to be a power-heavy version of the game..? Having no night power and a lame day power seems a bit off theme to me.
I've only ever played one game of Salem where we lynched nobody BUT scum, and have still won as town 100+ times.
Sure it's not ideal to hang the wrong person, but it doesn't mean we're going to lose. Town needs to take risks.
All that said! I think there also may be time to apply some pressure elsewhere? Lavinya's made her defense.
I'm allowed to be salty when I'm going to die for no good reason
I mean seriously. Tell me all the constructive things everyone else has brought out? It's day two. We've lost our arguably 2 most important roles. We have -nothing- except some guesses about the theme, something I tried to do a bit of (still yet to listen to any podcasts). There are others who have done even less than that.
Is it constructive to say Rolsand was a trigger happy vig one time a year ago in vengeance? Is that really more constructive than my surmising that the city council might be scum because my character in particular is town but is from what I can tell at odds with the rest of the council? Should I be reciting facts about who votes third on day two lynches and how that reveals them as scum while the 5th person to vote is always town? Why are we not all leaping onto Cyna for voting nobody, AFTER all this shit went down because I supposedly voted no one but then oh hey we were all suspicious too because she didn't give us any concrete info.
Yes I'm salty, goddamnit. There is not a single thing I can do here. That is incredibly frustrating. Not 'damn I'm mafia and I painted myself into a corner' but 'shit one wrong vote and no matter how honest you are dead. D.E.D dead.'
Anyway as it's been said - I've stated my case. Going to do my best to not follow the thread for a bit before I get too pissy. I'm obviously deflecting my RL stress over this way and I don't want to make it totally unfun for everyone.
We have to live to win, as well. Killing off our own won't save us, either.
Those of you who are town, pay close attention. Wishy-washy nothing posts, huh? Try being in my position (don't know the theme, no night power) and see just how filled with information your posts are. I digress. Pay attention to who is voting me and why. Guaranteed they are not all town.
If nothing else, you might learn from those voting for me (because I guarantee killing me won't actually help the town any information wise - you'll know no more than if I was still alive, but you WILL have lost another town. But hey, killing off town wins for the town, right?) and you won't lose a very vital role.
Let me get out my pitchfork.
YES. This. So much this. Don't worry, I'm getting heat too for not 'contributing' anything, either. I probably should just post for the sake of it and say the same things everyone else is saying and accusing people that I have no evidence of accusing.
Of course the first thing I think of when it comes to the overly aggressive people is they're probably mafia, I assume there is a lot of them (I know in ToS it can be 5 mafia max) so I suppose it makes sense they'd work together and maybe that's why a few people are giving me heat?
Regardless, I don't have anything of interest to contribute, and the one power I do have I'd really not like to reveal this early on. But, I guess mafia are coming at me anyway so I'll probably have to soon.
@Lavinya there is more you can do to convince people of towniness. Actually use your governor power on someone! I'd suggest @Cyna, since I think most people would be fine for her to be guaranteed to get to night phase since she just joined us!
As I maintained in the Reign game, governor as a mafia role is potentially very overpowered and bad game balance, so while it's not going to be 100% proof of your innocence, it might be enough to deter a few votes! If you do use it, we can consider the likelihood of scenarios with governors as mafia, but it gets you time!
@Ellowyn I don't think any of us really know the theme, but there has been -lots- you could take an opinion on, even if it is the same opinion as anyone else. You don't even have to really reveal anything about your role in doing it. I haven't, and have mainly just put out talking points that I find curious!
As I said, I voted for you on three things:
1) The game relies on people talking, and you weren't talking. We've lost our protector/investigator, which might have been valid reasons for keeping quiet, but not talking only benefits the mafia.
2) You said yourself you weren't an investigative role. Since whoever the tracker is is likely our best chance at getting info from the night phase, with the investigator gone, I saw you as a 'safe' lynch.
3) Purely personal red flag issue - I hate the jester role, so people who even mention it in passing draw my attention.
I will say that I don't know if I would have picked up on @Lavinya being shifty based on this game alone. There are many reasons why posting style is different in other games, but yeah the vote nobody, faux(?)-outrage, and not demonstrating the governor power (so-far) are bit shady.
If it is real outrage/frustration/becoming un-fun, I'll just say, pretendy-fun-times, and play mafia expecting to be accused/killed over nothing!
And yeah, I assume @Silvanus knows what he's doing. No clue what to really make of that :?
I really don't understand your reasoning. "We've lost the two best roles we really should try not to lynch, therefore we should be careful about who we lynch from now on".
Especially because we're always careful with who we lynch.
I'm of two minds in this matter though. On one hand, Dana is a very prominent character in Night Vale from what I can see. It'd be a very risky fake-claim.
On the other hand, why a governor power? Why not have the mayor have the actual mayor power? It's mentioned in the first post that the City Council seems to be the only ones who haven't been affected by this illusion.
---
Confusion is rampant through the city, and all business and personal
functions in Night Vale have come to a standstill, with no one able to
verify that who they're speaking with is actually who they say they are.
Even our government officials, the City Council apparently being the
exception, have been consumed by this anonymizing force. Hopefully soon
we'll figure out what exactly is going on.
---
Now, it does say that the government officials were enveloped. It's not impossible that even Dana wouldn't have the mayor power.
But please, tell me. How does the governor power work? Do you end the day when you invoke the power and force the day to end in a no lynch? Or does it just make said person unlynchable for the rest of the day. If so, it should be easy to confirm the power.
I'll with-hold actually voting until I've gotten some clarity on that matter and look into others meanwhile.
Regarding Ellowyn, I already did look into her. I saw her during the Gods and Monsters mafia. There, she was just as silent. Her role was survivor mind you, but I'm still of a mind that she's silent rather than actively trying to go under the radar. Lavinya, on the other hand, is acting in a very similar manner to how she acted in the Gods and Monsters mafia, and in that game, she was scum. That's why I chose to argue against Lavinya over Ellowyn.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Bleh, I don't know how I feel about your evidence for scum-tells being based on posting style in other games. I know it's hard to divorce what we know about people's play styles from other games, and we all refer back to other games for ease of justification, but new game should be clean slate and all that! People try out different play styles, especially if one play style gets you killed off early in a different game!
(Otherwise we'll all have to start creating fake forum accounts to keep some anonymity the more games we play!)
Damned if you do and damned if you don't! When I do talk, I suggest Syl might be either a jester/vet because of the way she has acted so far and I raise "red flags", but on the other hand you accuse me of not talking. Not really sure what else to do. I only say jester because from what I've listened to so far is that the cloud is a kind of well-known bad thing? And why would you admit it and pretend it's town if you didn't want people to be suspicious of you?
I do agree with your points about scum-tells based off posting styles, but even if we didn't mention it on the forums, we'd still all be thinking it. And Kira is also right, I was survivor then as well so I didn't have much to contribute either but I'm excited/nervous this game because I have the potential to actually help town.
I'm not too sure what to do about Silvanus, I know he generally does tell us his roles at the beginning of the game or at least he did with the monster & gods mafia. He's very good at mafia... so I'm sure he knows what he's doing. Personally I love that Lavinya called him out for being mafia. Ellowyn would be watching on with popcorn.
Comments
I dunno what to tell you. Even if you're actually trying to help town, this is an unusual play.
But Silvanus didn't vote for you. If anything he tried to stop us from lynching you with a promise to investigate you, with a one time investigative power. Curious no? And if you both happen to be mafia it's easy to pretend you were investigated.
This whole thing is quite odd and convincing me that voting you is the way to go.
page 4^
Also, I tend to (at least in my head) bunch together any non-towns into the grand category "scum". So a SK would also be scum, etc. Thus, "isn't scum" would be synonymous with "is town".
I'm actually glad someone else singled out the two people I feel have behaved most suspiciously. When I made a reference to 'wishy-washy' nothing posts, I was thinking specifically of @Lavinya and @Ellowyn.
But now we have this odd @Silvanus situation. He's being weird and not making sense. If I were in his position, I can't think of a single reason why I would make that bizarre reveal to give Lavinya another night of play.
I'm cool with lynching any of those three. I think it's the best we can do for day 2. And I don't care what anyone says: a no lynch *does not* help town. We have to lynch to win. Even if we make a mistake, we still learn things.
I'm going to Vote: Lavinya.
Problem is, by the time we have enough information to vote to lynch with certainty, the game is over. That's the only time we'll know for sure who the scum are. Before then, all we have to go on is gut feelings and best guesses.
That said, what really strikes me as odd about Lavinya in this instance is her voting for herself. No one has anything at all to gain by lynching themselves, so I'm starting to wonder if there's some strategy involved in that vote, such as trying to shake people off of voting for her (we've seen it work in the past on these forums). It's still very early in the day though, so for now I'll withhold my vote, but it doesn't inspire "town-ness" in my eyes.
It basically is a random lynch, yep. Or maybe more like a best-guess lynch. We've got nothing concrete (unless the other voters know something I don't know) but that's okay. We've got to try. I'm happy to change my vote if anyone comes up with a compelling reason to but being salty about it is just making it easier to keep my vote where it is. >_>
I came into the game without knowing the theme or anything but I've still been (hopefully!) reasonably constructive. But isn't this supposed to be a power-heavy version of the game..? Having no night power and a lame day power seems a bit off theme to me.
I've only ever played one game of Salem where we lynched nobody BUT scum, and have still won as town 100+ times.
Sure it's not ideal to hang the wrong person, but it doesn't mean we're going to lose. Town needs to take risks.
All that said! I think there also may be time to apply some pressure elsewhere? Lavinya's made her defense.
@Lavinya there is more you can do to convince people of towniness. Actually use your governor power on someone! I'd suggest @Cyna, since I think most people would be fine for her to be guaranteed to get to night phase since she just joined us!
As I maintained in the Reign game, governor as a mafia role is potentially very overpowered and bad game balance, so while it's not going to be 100% proof of your innocence, it might be enough to deter a few votes! If you do use it, we can consider the likelihood of scenarios with governors as mafia, but it gets you time!
@Ellowyn I don't think any of us really know the theme, but there has been -lots- you could take an opinion on, even if it is the same opinion as anyone else. You don't even have to really reveal anything about your role in doing it. I haven't, and have mainly just put out talking points that I find curious!
As I said, I voted for you on three things:
1) The game relies on people talking, and you weren't talking. We've lost our protector/investigator, which might have been valid reasons for keeping quiet, but not talking only benefits the mafia.
2) You said yourself you weren't an investigative role. Since whoever the tracker is is likely our best chance at getting info from the night phase, with the investigator gone, I saw you as a 'safe' lynch.
3) Purely personal red flag issue - I hate the jester role, so people who even mention it in passing draw my attention.
I will say that I don't know if I would have picked up on @Lavinya being shifty based on this game alone. There are many reasons why posting style is different in other games, but yeah the vote nobody, faux(?)-outrage, and not demonstrating the governor power (so-far) are bit shady.
If it is real outrage/frustration/becoming un-fun, I'll just say, pretendy-fun-times, and play mafia expecting to be accused/killed over nothing!
And yeah, I assume @Silvanus knows what he's doing. No clue what to really make of that :?
Especially because we're always careful with who we lynch.
I'm of two minds in this matter though. On one hand, Dana is a very prominent character in Night Vale from what I can see. It'd be a very risky fake-claim.
On the other hand, why a governor power? Why not have the mayor have the actual mayor power? It's mentioned in the first post that the City Council seems to be the only ones who haven't been affected by this illusion.
---
Confusion is rampant through the city, and all business and personal functions in Night Vale have come to a standstill, with no one able to verify that who they're speaking with is actually who they say they are. Even our government officials, the City Council apparently being the exception, have been consumed by this anonymizing force. Hopefully soon we'll figure out what exactly is going on.
Now, it does say that the government officials were enveloped. It's not impossible that even Dana wouldn't have the mayor power.
But please, tell me. How does the governor power work? Do you end the day when you invoke the power and force the day to end in a no lynch? Or does it just make said person unlynchable for the rest of the day. If so, it should be easy to confirm the power.
I'll with-hold actually voting until I've gotten some clarity on that matter and look into others meanwhile.
Regarding Ellowyn, I already did look into her. I saw her during the Gods and Monsters mafia. There, she was just as silent. Her role was survivor mind you, but I'm still of a mind that she's silent rather than actively trying to go under the radar. Lavinya, on the other hand, is acting in a very similar manner to how she acted in the Gods and Monsters mafia, and in that game, she was scum. That's why I chose to argue against Lavinya over Ellowyn.
(Otherwise we'll all have to start creating fake forum accounts to keep some anonymity the more games we play!)
Aaaah, what does that do? Day-kill, day-end, double-vote, halve the vote req?