If you're going to accuse me of using bad reasoning, quote and argue against it. I dismissed your commentary earlier, that I was "latching," on to third parties without any reason, because it was a non argument and I didn't care. However, if you are going continue to pressure me, I'm going to require you to explain it and argue against my reasoning which other people argued was reasonable. Why are we wrong to pursue third parties?
If you think I'm squirrel girl, great. Make an argument. Do what I'm doing. Present a case, try to progress the game. Do something that isn't spell card battles and picking at random.
So while Ileein being fine with throwing Yarith under the bus was almost enough to make me switch my vote, I don't think we should kill either of the two known outsiders.
If telling the truth, Ileein's win condition is like Sylandra's from the last game. While he doesn't count as town, he doesn't count as scum either and isn't someone we have to eliminate. If he achieves his personal win and magics out, who cares... the game goes on.
We also have that while both are non-Touhou, they've outed themselves, which does make me believe the more dangerous outsider is the one who hasn't come forward, not these two.
Plus, if Ileein is indeed the only person who can identify Ratatoskr then Ratatoskr will likely kill him for us. I don't buy the kill proof investigator claim.
So for me 'random' lynch is preferable to lynching these two, since we land on town, saboteur, Ratatoskr or unknown third party.
Mainly on gut feeling, but for placing a convenient Ileein vote after a fairly convincing Cyndarin reasoning (which read too much like scum not wanting to be the first to point a finger for the attention it draws but willing to bandwagon on someone likely to be lynched)
unvote Vote Melali
There is one thing you are missing here. We don't know what happens when somebody is stumped. Since Ileein has claimed third party, there is a good chance that information will actually be revealed on the stump, while anybody else likely will not teach us anything.
I'm willing to vote for either Ileein or somebody who we have a reasonable argument to believe they might be rat.
I'm also not very fond of the "I only investigate names.. oh wait. tamashi does that, I also know powers!" claims. A. We don't know that it is true. B. I don't think our only investigator would be third party in this large of a game.
I honestly don't think we have anything to lose from lynching Ileein, and we have -something- to gain. (Though not much.)
Somebody earlier suggested that Cyndarin might be Rat or third party/outworlder. Can somebody remind me who that was and what it was based on?
Also, I'm not so convinced by the argument that third party needs to be lynched. Though I do agree that third party is better than forcing more role claims by picking another random person.
Yarith's ability is confirmed and too useful for us to lynch IMO. Assuming usage of the skill benefits town from here on out.
You're using third parties as a strawman argument, claiming they are bad for town 100% of the time which is simply not the case. The last mafia game, half the game had a third party win condition and most of us chose to function as town until we were pulled in the other direction by mafia recruitment. An almost identical scenario played out in the Gods and Monsters game where Danzaburou and Kitsune were both 3p aligned against one another, and town chose to accept Danzaburou as 'essentially town' after I was killed in spite of the fact that he had already won and had no reason to help anybody at all.
It's true you're usually aggressive, but your usual default is the 'Lynch all liars' position, not "third party are scum". Yet you didn't breathe a peep while we had doubts about Tamashi. It's been Ileein from the word 'go'. Finally, it isn't third party that are inherently bad, it's usually Survivors, specifically, which has been pointed out and thoroughly ignored, so I'll say it again on its own line.
Third party aren't inherently suspect, survivors are.
Oh, and while I'm on the subject, you're also currently arguing to lynch the only person in the thread we are absolutely certain will not be able to continue playing if they're lynched, as opposed to someone who would be able to contribute to the conversation in either case.
Oh, and while I'm on the subject, you're also currently arguing to lynch the only person in the thread we are absolutely certain will not be able to continue playing if they're lynched, as opposed to someone who would be able to contribute to the conversation in either case.
I don't believe that's the claim btw. I read it as voluntarily deciding that they won't want to comment anymore. It sounded like a "I'm taking my ball with me" sort of threat.
Except I didn't say they are 100% bad for town, and I'm 100% certain you cannot quote me saying that. If you are going to argue against my positions, please read them first.
What I did say is that, in lieu of solid mafia leads, third parties are at their core unknown variables and as a result are natural targets if no potential target is available. No, my default position is not "lynch all liars," I am not a one note mafia player. I've stated across several games that third parties are always potentially dangerous. Nor did I not "breathe a peep" about Tamashi. I specifically noted that the argument against Tamashi was that Tamashi was the world's worst bluffer, and chose to call all this attention to their power, follow through with it, and then fall on their face. Currently, the answer "is probably mafia, " does not appear to fit so I'm not really paying them much attention.
Yes, third parties are inherently suspect, and so are survivors. While this point can be a matter of contention and arguments can be made, your other points are born out of a lack of reading. I'm going to go back to ignoring you if you are going to challenge my positions without reading my relatively few posts.
I have targeted Ileein specifically over Yarith because Ileein has already displayed a pension of dishonesty or misleading the town to make himself appear more benign and helpful. 1) That we should believe he will disappear from the game when ratgod is lynched, but we should believe the ratgod will not. 2) His victory isn't a game of chance, and he's going to win anyways.
It's really simple. We have no leads. As I've already stated, we're going in endless circles. Inevitably that'll lead to more claims, more information for the mafia, and nothing gained for the town save a lucky mafia lynch. AKA bad things. I've offered up both Ileein and Yarith, and chose Ileein because of the reasons I listed. What I won't go with is random lynch when we have better options in known non townies, or Vivet/Tamagotchi because they offered.
I can't tell if Cyndarin is Rata or just being defensive of Tamashi. I think it's interesting that the two times @Cyndarin has spoken up have been in defence of Tamashi. The first time, page 23, Cyndarin dismissed the Othero/Tamashi argument as the biggest waste of everyone's time. It was some 13 pages before the next post before coming in to dismiss the arugments against Tamashi and put pressure back onto Ileein. Attack at Ileein, chainsaw defence?
Another point which hasn't been discussed is whether or not Rata is aligned with the mafia or is entirely a third party. It's possible that he's in both camps.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Because I don't believe a mafia member would pull that dumb of a bluff, which is basically the argument against Tamashi. I thought I made that clear. Tamashi is coming across like Rolsand in Pokemon to me, as in they don't really know what they are doing/haven't played much mafia. I happened to be right about Rolsand.
I'm not entirely sure what town would gain out of spreading misinformation or bluffing. The entire point of town is that there's nothing to hide, especially if you come forward to deliver the information to the entirety of the thread. Regardless, ability going either way doesn't sell me on alignment.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
I'm confused on a few things, would someone like to explain them to me?
1) Why are we thinking @CyndarinAscends is Rat? From looking back, they weren't even the original aggressor on @Ileein.
2) @Ileein said that @Vivet was their investigation target. I'm curious if her self-watching power used would have seen the targeting, despite being blocked. The reason why I'm curious, is because her tracking could see if they targeted anybody during the night, even if the action wasn't followed through.
3) This defense of me. I don't really see it, there's no nice words about me and seems like a convenience to push the first thing I'm confused on. Literally the people even pushing on me, are the ones that are doing their best to remain hidden and contribute little.
4) Lastly, when we started this, we had 5 people saying they were outsiders, and that quickly dried up to 2. While I understand some of it is confusion to canon locations, we lost someone along the way, who?
Well yes, we're all assuming the Rat is running around, but I meant we had so many people saying they weren't from here. So it boils down to a few things. Either the Rat was just quiet and secretive knowing better than to say they were third party or one of them figured it was best to claim touhou-verse and remain that way.
Also, I'm really curious to know the flavor text of @Ileein's roleblock, shouldn't be that harmful to share, since we know @Yarith does hugs that bind and @Siam was able to tell us the flavor was a hug. It's not so much a doubt you were blocked, but I wanna know what kind of blocker we're looking at, standard or something like Yarith.
Pre-emptively, I'm going to assume execution is a day-power. It seems odd to have a lynch-like effect kick in at 20% of the votes without any kind of power expenditure.
If that's the case, it means they're protecting both Ileein and Yarith, because they've exceeded 5 votes as well. So it's most definitely not an automatic thing. Huzzah, well laters!
Doesn't have to mean they're protecting them. It could just be that they got tired of the day at this point and essentially went "Well, close enough, let's end the day".
As the day drags on, a probable cause for the destruction of the Hakurei shrine rears it's ugly head. Vivet, in a display of insight and cunning worthy of the hermit she proclaims to be, assesses that the one under the guise of Ileein might be a demon hunter from outside the barrier, Something that Ileein admits. He proclaims that his actual personage is "Pollux" and that he is hunting a rodent most foul. This display of honesty turn many against him, but he is not the only one to come under fire.
Even more suspect than an outsider, the guise of Tamashi has drawn ire and fire after professing an ability to peer past the Seed of Unknown Form and then several times failing to deliver on it. Some people speak up that he should leave, that he is not trustworthy. It's nowhere near enough to actually cause him to leave though. After all, even in his weakened state it'll still take a majority to have him banished.
Until the voices begin. "Well, well, well." A voice whispers into his ear. Smug and satisfied. "Isn't this a fantastically fine mess you've managed to get yourself into." Tamashi looks about himself in confusion, but there's no one to be seen. "Oh, what's that? Can't see me? Well that doesn't surprise me. After all, you can hardly see anything."
"What do you mean?"
"You know perfectly well what I mean. You couldn't see the truth of anyone even if we weren't all hidden by Nue's illusion. You're a filthy liar."
"I'm not!"
"Oh if the shoe fits, wear it. You're a liar. A phony. A fraud. A pathethic miserable excuse of a human being who can't handle the consequences of being called out on his own bullshit. Oh sure, you talk a big game, but the moment anyone rightfully calls you out, you grow petulant and whiny. You hide your weakness and insecurity behind impotent rage."
Tamashi's face goes red in a mix of rage and fear as he wildly lashes out to the voice around him. "Shut up. Shut up. Shut up!"
"Oh, you're so cute when you whine and cry like that. But we both know that this is the end of the line for you. Look at them. Look at how many distrust you and want you gone. Do you know why they want you gone? Because they despise you. They despise you Tamashi. Because you're a terrible person at heart. Worthless and irrelevant as you are, you desperately try to make yourself worthwhile and relevant. You build up a false, paper thin image that we shear through with the slightest touch. Didn't you say something about how you're used to have people obey you without question? Hah. Your desperation for recognition is plain for all to see. But you won't find it here. We're wise to your masks." The incessant voice drills itself into Tamashi's head, guiding him backwards until he stands at the top of the stairs that lead to the shrine. "Now run!" The voice demands with such force that Tamashi takes a sudden step backwards into open air. He yelps and goes tumbling down the stairs, groaning in pain at the bottom. The whispering voice hovers in place around him still, continuing to whisper taunts into his ears until he haltingly darts away from the site.
The rest all stand and follow the action with a confused look upon their face. To them, it seems Tamashi was suddenly afflicted by madness, which obviously lays a damper on the rest of the day's activities. With the discomfort of the scene hanging over them, they decide to call it an early day and go to sleep.
Tamashi has been executed by fear and won't approach the shrine grounds again.
It is now Night 1. It will last until 19:00 GMT 27th at the latest.
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Dawn approaches once more and everyone hurries up to the shrine, eager to begin construction once more. Yesterdays delay due to a mix-up of construction material has been rectified. And Nitori of the Kappa has made a personal appearance to apologize for the mess. By way of apology she has also brought a new (in 1890) invention in the form of a radio. This radio, she explains, can be used to keep in touch with everyone who is involved in the construction. Even those that have been banished from the construction efforts. Y'know, in case you'll want to ask for advice. It seems that everyone but Tamashi is here today. No one was sabotaged last night. However, Luce complains of a terrible stomach-ache.
Welcome to Gensokyo's day 2
Today's news: In order to avoid distraction from construction effort, no spellcard duels may be initiated until 15:00 GMT 1st of October. By then, a proper duelling arena should be constructed. Luce is unable to vote today. Today's gameday will last until 15:00 GMT Oct the 4th, unless a lynch happens beforehand. A note on Last Words. If you intend to activate a last word in case of loss, please let me know before the fight is concluded.
Finally, a copy of today's Bunbunmaru news has been delivered to the shrine for everyone to read.
------------ Disgraced Shrine Maiden Contracts Extra-Dimensional Saboteurs!
Well,
well, well! This reconstruction has taken QUITE the interesting turn,
hasn't it? Of course, I'm not talking about poor Tamashi's descent into
insanity, or Ssaliss' tantalizing prowess at spellcard duels, or even
Synkarin's admirable attempt at misdirection...everybody is already
talking about those tidbits and reporting it here would make for
dreadfully boring news.
And, loyal readers, you know how much I hate boring news.
No,
I am referencing that which nobody has yet discussed: The presence of
extra-dimensional beings amidst the shrine reconstruction crew! With
shockingly little provocation, the one calling himself Ileein revealed
the identities of not one, not two, but THREE foreign visitors to
Gensyoko. I, for one, find it veeerrry interesting that these travelers
should find themselves here at this precise time, at this specific
shrine, during this exact crisis. Are they merely benevolent
inter-dimensional repairmen, or is there a more sinister reason for
their appearance? Are they, perhaps, the cause of our current
situation?
And just where is Reimu Hakurei? Some of my
more dull-minded critics might argue that it is mere coincidence that
all of these strange events surrounding the shrine are happening all at
once. I, on the other hand, am far more inclined to believe that our
absent shrine maiden has colluded with our 'guests' to destroy the
Hakurei Shrine for some hereto unknown purpose. Who will end up being
correct in the end? I leave that to you to decide.
As much fun as
the day brings, the nights can be oh so much more enlightening! However
wholesome and helpful everybody seems during the while the sun shines
bright, I know for a fact that there has been some sneaking about by
some shady individuals when it sinks below the horizon. For example,
from my hidden vantage point behind a row of bushes, I could have sworn I
saw Weiwae and Kalaneya huddled together for well over two hours. I wonder what they could possibly have been talking about...
But
oh how I do carry on! I speak glowingly of secrets revealed beneath the
light of the moon, yet so engrossed was I in presenting you with my
findings that I nearly missed that heavenly body's rise. Who shall I
follow tonight, loyal readers? How about Ssaliss, with his suspicious
proficiency in spellcard duels? Perhaps Sylandra, the most secretive of
us all? Or maybe the delightfully assertive Cyndarin?
Ooh, I just can't decide! I suppose, as always, I'll simply go where my camera takes me.
Until tomorrow, Aya Shameimaru ----------
There is an advertisement for Rinnosuke's Hardware Store in today's news.
It is now day 2. With 20 able to vote, it's 11 to lynch
Everyone is a genius. But if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.
Comments
If you think I'm squirrel girl, great. Make an argument. Do what I'm doing. Present a case, try to progress the game. Do something that isn't spell card battles and picking at random.
We don't know what happens when somebody is stumped.
Since Ileein has claimed third party, there is a good chance that information will actually be revealed on the stump, while anybody else likely will not teach us anything.
I'm willing to vote for either Ileein or somebody who we have a reasonable argument to believe they might be rat.
I'm also not very fond of the "I only investigate names.. oh wait. tamashi does that, I also know powers!" claims. A. We don't know that it is true. B. I don't think our only investigator would be third party in this large of a game.
I honestly don't think we have anything to lose from lynching Ileein, and we have -something- to gain. (Though not much.)
Also, I'm not so convinced by the argument that third party needs to be lynched. Though I do agree that third party is better than forcing more role claims by picking another random person.
Yarith's ability is confirmed and too useful for us to lynch IMO. Assuming usage of the skill benefits town from here on out.
It's true you're usually aggressive, but your usual default is the 'Lynch all liars' position, not "third party are scum". Yet you didn't breathe a peep while we had doubts about Tamashi. It's been Ileein from the word 'go'. Finally, it isn't third party that are inherently bad, it's usually Survivors, specifically, which has been pointed out and thoroughly ignored, so I'll say it again on its own line.
Third party aren't inherently suspect, survivors are.
What I did say is that, in lieu of solid mafia leads, third parties are at their core unknown variables and as a result are natural targets if no potential target is available. No, my default position is not "lynch all liars," I am not a one note mafia player. I've stated across several games that third parties are always potentially dangerous. Nor did I not "breathe a peep" about Tamashi. I specifically noted that the argument against Tamashi was that Tamashi was the world's worst bluffer, and chose to call all this attention to their power, follow through with it, and then fall on their face. Currently, the answer "is probably mafia, " does not appear to fit so I'm not really paying them much attention.
Yes, third parties are inherently suspect, and so are survivors. While this point can be a matter of contention and arguments can be made, your other points are born out of a lack of reading. I'm going to go back to ignoring you if you are going to challenge my positions without reading my relatively few posts.
It's really simple. We have no leads. As I've already stated, we're going in endless circles. Inevitably that'll lead to more claims, more information for the mafia, and nothing gained for the town save a lucky mafia lynch. AKA bad things. I've offered up both Ileein and Yarith, and chose Ileein because of the reasons I listed. What I won't go with is random lynch when we have better options in known non townies, or Vivet/Tamagotchi because they offered.
Another point which hasn't been discussed is whether or not Rata is aligned with the mafia or is entirely a third party. It's possible that he's in both camps.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
1) Why are we thinking @CyndarinAscends is Rat? From looking back, they weren't even the original aggressor on @Ileein.
2) @Ileein said that @Vivet was their investigation target. I'm curious if her self-watching power used would have seen the targeting, despite being blocked. The reason why I'm curious, is because her tracking could see if they targeted anybody during the night, even if the action wasn't followed through.
3) This defense of me. I don't really see it, there's no nice words about me and seems like a convenience to push the first thing I'm confused on. Literally the people even pushing on me, are the ones that are doing their best to remain hidden and contribute little.
4) Lastly, when we started this, we had 5 people saying they were outsiders, and that quickly dried up to 2. While I understand some of it is confusion to canon locations, we lost someone along the way, who?
Ileein: Weiwae, Othero, Cyndarin, Melali (4)
Tamashi: Lehki, Falmiis, Lavinya, Breandryn, Krackenor (5)
Siam: Sylandra, Luce, Ileein, (2)
Vivet: Vivet, Ssaliss, Iosion (3)
Sylandra: Tamashi (1)
Melali: Ushaara (1)
With 21 workers and 1 sick person, it's 11 to banish someone.
The following are slightly easier to banish, taking only 10 votes to banish.
Ushaara
Othero
Tamashi
Or 5 to execute. Tamashi has been executed. End of day post incoming.
Also, I'm really curious to know the flavor text of @Ileein's roleblock, shouldn't be that harmful to share, since we know @Yarith does hugs that bind and @Siam was able to tell us the flavor was a hug. It's not so much a doubt you were blocked, but I wanna know what kind of blocker we're looking at, standard or something like Yarith.
Even more suspect than an outsider, the guise of Tamashi has drawn ire and fire after professing an ability to peer past the Seed of Unknown Form and then several times failing to deliver on it. Some people speak up that he should leave, that he is not trustworthy. It's nowhere near enough to actually cause him to leave though. After all, even in his weakened state it'll still take a majority to have him banished.
Until the voices begin. "Well, well, well." A voice whispers into his ear. Smug and satisfied. "Isn't this a fantastically fine mess you've managed to get yourself into." Tamashi looks about himself in confusion, but there's no one to be seen. "Oh, what's that? Can't see me? Well that doesn't surprise me. After all, you can hardly see anything."
"What do you mean?"
"You know perfectly well what I mean. You couldn't see the truth of anyone even if we weren't all hidden by Nue's illusion. You're a filthy liar."
"I'm not!"
"Oh if the shoe fits, wear it. You're a liar. A phony. A fraud. A pathethic miserable excuse of a human being who can't handle the consequences of being called out on his own bullshit. Oh sure, you talk a big game, but the moment anyone rightfully calls you out, you grow petulant and whiny. You hide your weakness and insecurity behind impotent rage."
Tamashi's face goes red in a mix of rage and fear as he wildly lashes out to the voice around him. "Shut up. Shut up. Shut up!"
"Oh, you're so cute when you whine and cry like that. But we both know that this is the end of the line for you. Look at them. Look at how many distrust you and want you gone. Do you know why they want you gone? Because they despise you. They despise you Tamashi. Because you're a terrible person at heart. Worthless and irrelevant as you are, you desperately try to make yourself worthwhile and relevant. You build up a false, paper thin image that we shear through with the slightest touch. Didn't you say something about how you're used to have people obey you without question? Hah. Your desperation for recognition is plain for all to see. But you won't find it here. We're wise to your masks." The incessant voice drills itself into Tamashi's head, guiding him backwards until he stands at the top of the stairs that lead to the shrine. "Now run!" The voice demands with such force that Tamashi takes a sudden step backwards into open air. He yelps and goes tumbling down the stairs, groaning in pain at the bottom. The whispering voice hovers in place around him still, continuing to whisper taunts into his ears until he haltingly darts away from the site.
The rest all stand and follow the action with a confused look upon their face. To them, it seems Tamashi was suddenly afflicted by madness, which obviously lays a damper on the rest of the day's activities. With the discomfort of the scene hanging over them, they decide to call it an early day and go to sleep.
Tamashi has been executed by fear and won't approach the shrine grounds again.
It is now Night 1. It will last until 19:00 GMT 27th at the latest.
Welcome to Gensokyo's day 2
Today's news:
In order to avoid distraction from construction effort, no spellcard duels may be initiated until 15:00 GMT 1st of October. By then, a proper duelling arena should be constructed.
Luce is unable to vote today.
Today's gameday will last until 15:00 GMT Oct the 4th, unless a lynch happens beforehand.
A note on Last Words. If you intend to activate a last word in case of loss, please let me know before the fight is concluded.
Finally, a copy of today's Bunbunmaru news has been delivered to the shrine for everyone to read.
------------
Disgraced Shrine Maiden Contracts Extra-Dimensional Saboteurs!
Well, well, well! This reconstruction has taken QUITE the interesting turn, hasn't it? Of course, I'm not talking about poor Tamashi's descent into insanity, or Ssaliss' tantalizing prowess at spellcard duels, or even Synkarin's admirable attempt at misdirection...everybody is already talking about those tidbits and reporting it here would make for dreadfully boring news.
And, loyal readers, you know how much I hate boring news.
No, I am referencing that which nobody has yet discussed: The presence of extra-dimensional beings amidst the shrine reconstruction crew! With shockingly little provocation, the one calling himself Ileein revealed the identities of not one, not two, but THREE foreign visitors to Gensyoko. I, for one, find it veeerrry interesting that these travelers should find themselves here at this precise time, at this specific shrine, during this exact crisis. Are they merely benevolent inter-dimensional repairmen, or is there a more sinister reason for their appearance? Are they, perhaps, the cause of our current situation?
And just where is Reimu Hakurei? Some of my more dull-minded critics might argue that it is mere coincidence that all of these strange events surrounding the shrine are happening all at once. I, on the other hand, am far more inclined to believe that our absent shrine maiden has colluded with our 'guests' to destroy the Hakurei Shrine for some hereto unknown purpose. Who will end up being correct in the end? I leave that to you to decide.
As much fun as the day brings, the nights can be oh so much more enlightening! However wholesome and helpful everybody seems during the while the sun shines bright, I know for a fact that there has been some sneaking about by some shady individuals when it sinks below the horizon. For example, from my hidden vantage point behind a row of bushes, I could have sworn I saw Weiwae and Kalaneya huddled together for well over two hours. I wonder what they could possibly have been talking about...
But oh how I do carry on! I speak glowingly of secrets revealed beneath the light of the moon, yet so engrossed was I in presenting you with my findings that I nearly missed that heavenly body's rise. Who shall I follow tonight, loyal readers? How about Ssaliss, with his suspicious proficiency in spellcard duels? Perhaps Sylandra, the most secretive of us all? Or maybe the delightfully assertive Cyndarin?
Ooh, I just can't decide! I suppose, as always, I'll simply go where my camera takes me.
Until tomorrow,
Aya Shameimaru
----------
There is an advertisement for Rinnosuke's Hardware Store in today's news.
It is now day 2. With 20 able to vote, it's 11 to lynch