Well you're being confrontational and abrasive which is typically enough for people to lynch you. It's an emotional response in a game about information.
Third parties win by prolonging the game until they meet their win condition. The town does not prolong the game, the mafia does. It's fundamental mafia logic. No power justifies trusting third parties to make irrational choices that do not support their end goal.
Stop having feelings, vote with thoughts and reason.
*shrug* I will almost certainly achieve my win condition before Town does, and prolonging the game is unnecessary to achieve that. Additionally, it makes Town more likely to lynch me, which is the only way I definitely lose. Given these facts, and the fact that Town also has an interest in lynching Rat-god, I have thrown my lot in with Town. You have determined not to believe me, and to be honest I don't give a damn about that. It's everyone else I'm speaking to.
I would be okay with lynching Yarith since as far as I can tell he's merely a Survivor, but as mentioned the jailing power is somewhat useful provided it's directed. At this moment however I am uncertain we have enough information to use it properly.
You really don't understand what you are talking about. Your win condition is a game of chance, the longer the game, the greater the chance to win. This is not a disputable fact, it's how random chance works. The longer the game, the increase odds you have of landing on the right target and winning. You are demonstrably wrong. I assume you know this and are simply warping fact to make yourself seem more benign to the town.
I would lynch any third party. You just take your role personally for whatever reason.
I want to lynch you specifically because you repeatedly attempt to mislead the town with things like "I have thrown my lot in with Town." No you haven't, your lot is with yourself. Are you now claiming you're not trying to win? Of course not, you're deliberately lying. You cannot possibly claim you aren't trying to win, and unless you can, your lot is not with the town. Full stop. You are not pro town, the town is a means to an end for you. Welcome to mafia.
Yarith has at least been comparably benign.
The best argument against you at this point is your last post. You (the self professed town ally) are okay with lynching Yarith, because he's third party. It's basically an inadvertent admission that the town should be okay with lynching you, because you are also a third party. Glad that is settled.
I'm going to bed, and I'll be away most of tomorrow. Please, for the love of Estarra's heels, be smart town. Yes, the long term risk is low with a random lynch like Vivet or Tamagotchi. Lynching third parties is now risk. They are not here to help us, they are here to win. Burn the fat off if we can't isolate a reasonable mafia suspect.
Yarith claimed jailer and town. My understanding is that a jailer is a town-y role, so I'm willing to believe that for now. And Ileein, I might have missed this earlier, but getting turned into a stump means you lose? I thought that you retain your win condition even when you get stumped (like stumped town still counts as winning with town).
Yarith claimed jailer and town. My understanding is that a jailer is a town-y role, so I'm willing to believe that for now. And Ileein, I might have missed this earlier, but getting turned into a stump means you lose? I thought that you retain your win condition even when you get stumped (like stumped town still counts as winning with town).
No. I win if and only if Rat is lynched before I am. This implies that Rat may be immune to night-deaths, as I am.
Jadice, the Frost Queen says to you, "Constant vigilance."
The logic used so far to put Tamachi and Kalaenya and Siam as lynch targets has been really suspect. I'm keeping my vote where it is. I don't see how any new information could change my vote unless was a viable Rat suspect.
The logic used so far to put Tamachi and Kalaenya and Siam as lynch targets has been really suspect. I'm keeping my vote where it is. I don't see how any new information could change my vote unless was a viable Rat suspect.
What about the logic for Ileein? I'll say it again, Ileein was the only outsider that Tamashi could see. One of Rats abilities was being able to be whoever they claimed to be. Ileein being the anomaly in the outsiders seems to make it more likely that they are Rat compared to the others.
The logic used so far to put Tamachi and Kalaenya and Siam as lynch targets has been really suspect. I'm keeping my vote where it is. I don't see how any new information could change my vote unless was a viable Rat suspect.
What about the logic for Ileein? I'll say it again, Ileein was the only outsider that Tamashi could see. One of Rats abilities was being able to be whoever they claimed to be. Ileein being the anomaly in the outsiders seems to make it more likely that they are Rat compared to the others.
@Othero Ileein is the only outsider I've dueled...I got nothing on Yarith -because- it requires an actual duel to happen. So while yes, Ileein is the only one I can identify...he's the ONLY one I could have so far.
Yeah, lynching 3rd party is better than lynching Town. Hopefully, lynching him will also get rid of the Rat, and then we'll only have Town, Mafia, and maybe a Serial Killer.
Also, I've already stated why Ileein is suspicious and is definitely not Town.
Re: Ileein, personally I won't be voting for him for one simple reason: If he is an investigator, he will be useful for town, even if he doesn't win with town. Even if he drops out of the game at some point, we might as well learn as much as possible before he does.
@Othero Ileein is the only outsider I've dueled...I got nothing on Yarith -because- it requires an actual duel to happen. So while yes, Ileein is the only one I can identify...he's the ONLY one I could have so far.
Really? I could of sworn you fought the other outsiders.
I'm not sure if the multiple bandwagons are merely indecision or if they're a stall or defence for Tamashi.
Just casting back and putting thoughts to words (feel free to correct me):
If the mafia didn't abstain from killing night one, from the information we have, there are these options for the night:
Ileein was attacked, Ileein has the potential to attack but not kill his roleblocker, theoretical Rata was attacked, Siam was attacked, Siam has the potential to attack but not kill his roleblocker. Which means we have at least: one roleblocker, one jailor, Vivet's bag of tricks, Tremula's weird shield orb things, Tamashi's unreliable name 'investigation', and Ileein's investigator claim. Siam also admitted to having a night action which he is not comfortable with revealing as of yet.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Though there are lots more options, those are just possibilities. I find it odd that Ileein was so confident in his early claim but I'm not sure if it's worth lynching him.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Yeah; it could also have been an unknown doctor (I assume there is one) protecting the target, or someone with a commuter power was targeted, etc etc etc. Further, just knowing who might've been targeted doesn't really help us determine who targeted them. At this point, we don't really have enough information to determine who to lynch based on that; it might help us determine who not to lynch, but even that's a bit hit-and-miss with disinformation from the scum.
I can confirm Yarith targetted me last night. That's it. I don't want to reveal my night power yet!
Viravain, Lady of the Thorns shouts, "And You would seize Me? Fool! I am the Glomdoring! I am the Wyrd, and beneath the cloak of Night, the shadows of the Silent stir!"
Also RE: Ileein if he's really night immune and, assuming that his arch nemesis doesn't have a 1-way super kill ticket just to get rid of him as part of their dueling mechanic, Ileein sticks around as long as we want him to/choose to.
I really didn't want to reveal my night power either. To be honest I had no idea that being non-native was going to cause a blow up about alignment and win conditions, it seemed pretty trivial to me when I learned about my character. If I thought it was going to complicate things I wouldn't have said anything at all. I'm still new to this mafia thing.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
So while Ileein being fine with throwing Yarith under the bus was almost enough to make me switch my vote, I don't think we should kill either of the two known outsiders.
If telling the truth, Ileein's win condition is like Sylandra's from the last game. While he doesn't count as town, he doesn't count as scum either and isn't someone we have to eliminate. If he achieves his personal win and magics out, who cares... the game goes on.
We also have that while both are non-Touhou, they've outed themselves, which does make me believe the more dangerous outsider is the one who hasn't come forward, not these two.
Plus, if Ileein is indeed the only person who can identify Ratatoskr then Ratatoskr will likely kill him for us. I don't buy the kill proof investigator claim.
So for me 'random' lynch is preferable to lynching these two, since we land on town, saboteur, Ratatoskr or unknown third party.
Mainly on gut feeling, but for placing a convenient Ileein vote after a fairly convincing Cyndarin reasoning (which read too much like scum not wanting to be the first to point a finger for the attention it draws but willing to bandwagon on someone likely to be lynched)
The logic used so far to put Tamachi and Kalaenya and Siam as lynch targets has been really suspect. I'm keeping my vote where it is. I don't see how any new information could change my vote unless was a viable Rat suspect.
What about the logic for Ileein? I'll say it again, Ileein was the only outsider that Tamashi could see. One of Rats abilities was being able to be whoever they claimed to be. Ileein being the anomaly in the outsiders seems to make it more likely that they are Rat compared to the others.
My issue with this is that if there is a Ratatoskr, there is very likely a Pollux as well. If Ratatoskr wanted to masquerade as Pollux and beat him to claiming (since they'd obviously know about each other via role card), then it is very likely Pollux would have stepped up in kind and forced us into a position where we'd want to lynch either one or the other on that very day. This hasn't occurred - only one person's been claiming to be Pollux.
Truthfully, if theoretical Rata doesn't have a way to kill Ileein tonight they're either arguing heavily for Ileein to be lynched or just waiting around for a bandwagon big enough to jump onto, provided Ileein's claim is real.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Re: Ileein, personally I won't be voting for him for one simple reason: If he is an investigator, he will be useful for town, even if he doesn't win with town. Even if he drops out of the game at some point, we might as well learn as much as possible before he does.
Do you have a method of policing his honesty? At what point will you know he's not being honest and trying to buy himself more time?
More importantly, what are the plans to confirm his investigation powers tomorrow night? So far, he was "blocked," so we're just trusting a third party for...reasons.
Well, if he comes to a point where he can either reveal a scum and let town win or keep quiet to give himself an extra day, then yeah, he probably be quiet to get an extra day. He can't push that too far though, or scum would win and he'd lose anyway. And once he finds Ratatoskr, there's nothing really preventing him from actually revealing who the scum he found was.
And realistically, we simply cannot take what anyone says at face value ever. That goes the same for Ileein as it would for anyone. It is incredibly rare for people to be confirmed town; I mean heck, last game I was as confirmed town as I could be, and people still thought I might be scum.
Just killing an investigator "because he might lie" is a really bad suggestion though. It is in his best interest to be useful to town, because at any point we have the ability to force him to lose. Simple as that, really. Truthfully, the realistically most "dangerous" thing coming from him would be for him to lie about someone and claim they are scum while they are, in actuality, Ratatoskr, meaning we let him win without actually consciously meaning to.
Quite frankly, a lot of Cyndarin's logic so far has been really aggressive and shaky, and literally all of it has been pointed down Ileein's throat. Are we sure Cyndarin isn't Squirrel Girl?
Comments
I would lynch any third party. You just take your role personally for whatever reason.
I want to lynch you specifically because you repeatedly attempt to mislead the town with things like "I have thrown my lot in with Town." No you haven't, your lot is with yourself. Are you now claiming you're not trying to win? Of course not, you're deliberately lying. You cannot possibly claim you aren't trying to win, and unless you can, your lot is not with the town. Full stop. You are not pro town, the town is a means to an end for you. Welcome to mafia.
Yarith has at least been comparably benign.
The best argument against you at this point is your last post. You (the self professed town ally) are okay with lynching Yarith, because he's third party. It's basically an inadvertent admission that the town should be okay with lynching you, because you are also a third party. Glad that is settled.
vote: Ileein
Yeah, lynching 3rd party is better than lynching Town. Hopefully, lynching him will also get rid of the Rat, and then we'll only have Town, Mafia, and maybe a Serial Killer.
Also, I've already stated why Ileein is suspicious and is definitely not Town.
Just casting back and putting thoughts to words (feel free to correct me):
If the mafia didn't abstain from killing night one, from the information we have, there are these options for the night:
Ileein was attacked, Ileein has the potential to attack but not kill his roleblocker, theoretical Rata was attacked, Siam was attacked, Siam has the potential to attack but not kill his roleblocker.
Which means we have at least: one roleblocker, one jailor, Vivet's bag of tricks, Tremula's weird shield orb things, Tamashi's unreliable name 'investigation', and Ileein's investigator claim.
Siam also admitted to having a night action which he is not comfortable with revealing as of yet.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
I really didn't want to reveal my night power either. To be honest I had no idea that being non-native was going to cause a blow up about alignment and win conditions, it seemed pretty trivial to me when I learned about my character. If I thought it was going to complicate things I wouldn't have said anything at all. I'm still new to this mafia thing.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
If telling the truth, Ileein's win condition is like Sylandra's from the last game. While he doesn't count as town, he doesn't count as scum either and isn't someone we have to eliminate. If he achieves his personal win and magics out, who cares... the game goes on.
We also have that while both are non-Touhou, they've outed themselves, which does make me believe the more dangerous outsider is the one who hasn't come forward, not these two.
Plus, if Ileein is indeed the only person who can identify Ratatoskr then Ratatoskr will likely kill him for us. I don't buy the kill proof investigator claim.
So for me 'random' lynch is preferable to lynching these two, since we land on town, saboteur, Ratatoskr or unknown third party.
Mainly on gut feeling, but for placing a convenient Ileein vote after a fairly convincing Cyndarin reasoning (which read too much like scum not wanting to be the first to point a finger for the attention it draws but willing to bandwagon on someone likely to be lynched)
unvote
Vote Melali
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
And realistically, we simply cannot take what anyone says at face value ever. That goes the same for Ileein as it would for anyone. It is incredibly rare for people to be confirmed town; I mean heck, last game I was as confirmed town as I could be, and people still thought I might be scum.
Just killing an investigator "because he might lie" is a really bad suggestion though. It is in his best interest to be useful to town, because at any point we have the ability to force him to lose. Simple as that, really. Truthfully, the realistically most "dangerous" thing coming from him would be for him to lie about someone and claim they are scum while they are, in actuality, Ratatoskr, meaning we let him win without actually consciously meaning to.