You're right. You're entirely right. How could I be so blind? Totems must be completely kept off limits, we must never cut them down and let the forests generate all the passive power so that the crow and stag users have 100 trees to choose from when they transcend their skillsets so they can be useful.
And we've constantly said (and envoyed) that we don't give a damn about the power generation.
You're arguing against a scenario nobody wants. Seriously, if you're actually here to find a tenable solution and not just trolling then at least argue from an honest standpoint, because the only person that gives a damn about passive power seems to be you.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
I'm not arguing that it's fine. I'm just saying you can't be upset when you're making more work for yourself and that you shouldn't flame people who chop trees.
As long as they generate power they're a conflict mechanic.
(I'm the mom of Hallifax btw, so if you are in Hallifax please call me mom.)
== Professional Girl Gamer == Yes I play games Yes I'm a girl get over it
Looks like the admins didn't say "no" in report 1374 as much as they said "we hope the discretionary will be enough but we are not 100% opposed to looking at it again".
Really, the greatest tragedy in all of this is that I can't chop the sunpride elders. The communes should ask for Jojobo for some tips.
BUT AGAIN!! Most of us seem to be willing to completely get rid of that benefit and even admit it is over the top even considering how annoying it is constantly having to maintain totems.
The Divine voice of Ianir the Anomaly echoes in your head, "You are a ray of sunshine in a sea of
If planting, raising trees, and carving them is too annoying, and you don't care about the power, stop doing it. Reserve it for RP occasions and rituals etc.
You could change the RP to be whenever a new person can bond to a totem, their duty is to raise it from a sapling to a totem, or whatever. The deeper idea being that an untended elder is a deeply irresponsible thing to do, or tragically lonely, or somesuch.
Problem solved, no admin intervention needed.
Take great care of yourselves and each other.
1
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
The main complaint about making newbies raise their own totem from sapling to totem is that it takes RL days, it locks them out of their skills, and all the progress can be erased in an instant. It's one thing to make epic quests take days, careful coordination, and be easily interruptible. Being able to use your skills shouldn't be in that category.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
If planting, raising trees, and carving them is too annoying, and you don't care about the power, stop doing it. Reserve it for RP occasions and rituals etc.
You could change the RP to be whenever a new person can bond to a totem, their duty is to raise it from a sapling to a totem, or whatever. The deeper idea being that an untended elder is a deeply irresponsible thing to do, or tragically lonely, or somesuch.
Problem solved, no admin intervention needed.
Sure. Give us an easier time planting these totems, remove the ability for people to chop any totem, change our RP (I'd love to see someone try and negotiate that with @Viravain), remove the upkeep cost of keeping the totem bond, give us respawning essence dropping mobs in EtherGlom/EtherWIlde, allow Daughters/Ladies to respawn and be influenced for power and cost power if killed. Happy to make that exchange. Really, no sarcasm at all.
The Divine voice of Ianir the Anomaly echoes in your head, "You are a ray of sunshine in a sea of
It is not unreasonable that work should sometimes have to be done to ensure otherwise-passive power gain.
The only unreasonable part is that it falls on 2.5 guilds (but really only 1) to plant and only 1 guild to carve - meaning a small handful of the same people are dealing with this every single time. It's not fair to @Crek@Dylara@Enyalida, etc. personally. I don't have any sympathy for the communes at large when trees get chopped down - I do pity the same poor druids who always have to deal with the fallout.
Why is there not some construct power that gives the abilities required to tend the forest to all commune members, the way all city members can go out and bash for power? Failing an envoy report like that, I think people should consider not replacing the trees. See what it's like to not have them, and make some decisions about whether or not this is actually worth your time and aggravation.
It is very hard to hear this issue come up again and again and again, but nothing ever changes. You guys just bitch and moan (I do love you) while you sweep all the powder back into the keg, so you can sit back down on it, hoping that nobody walks by with a match for a while. Break the cycle!
To be real, over the past year it has not been I who carves Serenwilde totems, I just got tired of it. If I cross a few I'll do a sweep or check or records to carve them, but I don't check every hour anymore. Afaik it's folks like @Lehki (who runs scripts to check reversion times) and @Ryl (who follows said reversion list and carves) and assorted other droods. It does suck though, and I'm sure it's fallen down to one person in Glom before as it has fallen down to one or two in Seren (like me, in previous years).
The amount of power lost by even a large chopping (10-20 trees) is miniscule. @Lerad is right in that in character we utterly can't brush it off though, ESPECIALLY as Serenwilde, whose entire story is tied up in "Protect our land, it's the last good land ANYWHERE IN EXISTANCE". Having it be so easy to get around what protections are feasible smarts, bad. It's not so much the boring chore of upkeeping them, it's the crushing guilt and blame that falls on your head when one inevitably slips by or someone comes in and chops totems right as they revert - even though it really is inevitable, there isn't anything that can be done practically to stop it. Frustration city.
It absolutely is griefing. It's a "Conflict" mechanic that requires little to no effort and no time commitment on the part of the initiator that requires both effort and commitment on the part of the "defender". The initiator gains nothing except seeing the defenders get frustrated, all for zero risk!
If planting, raising trees, and carving them is too annoying, and you don't care about the power, stop doing it. Reserve it for RP occasions and rituals etc.
You could change the RP to be whenever a new person can bond to a totem, their duty is to raise it from a sapling to a totem, or whatever. The deeper idea being that an untended elder is a deeply irresponsible thing to do, or tragically lonely, or somesuch.
Problem solved, no admin intervention needed.
Sure. Give us an easier time planting these totems, remove the ability for people to chop any totem, change our RP (I'd love to see someone try and negotiate that with @Viravain), remove the upkeep cost of keeping the totem bond, give us respawning essence dropping mobs in EtherGlom/EtherWIlde, allow Daughters/Ladies to respawn and be influenced for power and cost power if killed. Happy to make that exchange. Really, no sarcasm at all.
I thought you didn't care about the power though.
Allow people to bond to the sapling protecting it as it grows, and unlocking totem requiring skills. Skill issue solved.
If chopping Elders is meant to be a conflict mechanic, make chopping elders a channeled action on par with destroying statues/gates, that sends a message to CT every X seconds. Force people to either not chop them because now it has a real risk attached, or put their money where their mouths are of calling it a conflict mechanic.
Yep. That's been suggested too: make there be risk and involvement to chopping totems.
You need to do an actual raid and set up camp to chop a totem, not just hit and run. Any mechanic that takes 6s to complete should take 6s to undo. It should not take three days to recover from a riskless 6s action. Ditto starting fires/vines. You should not be able to make people spend chunks of power or time because you ducked into their territory when no one was there and sent one command before skipping out, utterly risk free. That's even anonymous, so there can't be any retribution against you or your org.
EDIT: You already can protect saplings from being chopped as they grow. That's not the point at all.
But it's not just one sapling, unless that is a change you're suggesting? To make one elder yo have to plant 5.
I'm wondering if the option to have a nursery of sorts where we can transplant trees from would be an acceptable option if administration are unwilling to change the system to better parity between the organizations. One or two rooms we could protect, make difficult for enemies to reach (serenwilde has the greenhouse already, glom could have theirs in the alter). Just a thought as a defrost from my day outside.
Avurekhos says, "Dylara's a PvP menace in my eyes, totes rekting face."
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable. Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
It's also really dumb to hold the forests ransom with an awful mechanic over power. The power lost from a few chops isn't much, but it's not fair to say "Keep this unfun and miserable mechanic everyone hates OR be punished with less power." Screwed if you do, screwed if you don't.
If planting, raising trees, and carving them is too annoying, and you don't care about the power, stop doing it. Reserve it for RP occasions and rituals etc.
You could change the RP to be whenever a new person can bond to a totem, their duty is to raise it from a sapling to a totem, or whatever. The deeper idea being that an untended elder is a deeply irresponsible thing to do, or tragically lonely, or somesuch.
Problem solved, no admin intervention needed.
Sure. Give us an easier time planting these totems, remove the ability for people to chop any totem, change our RP (I'd love to see someone try and negotiate that with @Viravain), remove the upkeep cost of keeping the totem bond, give us respawning essence dropping mobs in EtherGlom/EtherWIlde, allow Daughters/Ladies to respawn and be influenced for power and cost power if killed. Happy to make that exchange. Really, no sarcasm at all.
I thought you didn't care about the power though.
He doesn't, it's just making communes comparable to cities, which is what you guys are all wanting by the sounds of it.
The divine voice
of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations,
Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
If planting, raising trees, and carving them is too annoying, and you don't care about the power, stop doing it. Reserve it for RP occasions and rituals etc.
You could change the RP to be whenever a new person can bond to a totem, their duty is to raise it from a sapling to a totem, or whatever. The deeper idea being that an untended elder is a deeply irresponsible thing to do, or tragically lonely, or somesuch.
Problem solved, no admin intervention needed.
Sure. Give us an easier time planting these totems, remove the ability for people to chop any totem, change our RP (I'd love to see someone try and negotiate that with @Viravain), remove the upkeep cost of keeping the totem bond, give us respawning essence dropping mobs in EtherGlom/EtherWIlde, allow Daughters/Ladies to respawn and be influenced for power and cost power if killed. Happy to make that exchange. Really, no sarcasm at all.
I thought you didn't care about the power though.
Allow people to bond to the sapling protecting it as it grows, and unlocking totem requiring skills. Skill issue solved.
I don't care about the power. I do care that if we're removing the power that cities vs communes be equal. That means we'd need more power quests native to the org. We do not have the things I listed because we have passive power from totems. Without them cities would have an advantage in the ability to produce power. We went over this a few pages ago.
Also, we'd need something similar to statues for whatever little bit of defense they provide.
The Divine voice of Ianir the Anomaly echoes in your head, "You are a ray of sunshine in a sea of
depression. I just wanted you to know that."
0
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
Communes are more than willing to replace a passive power gain with opportunities for active power gain (which we don't have, aside from taking it from others), if the passive power gain is going to continue to be the single counter-argument to any change.
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
I fail to see how replanting is even an issue. I have afk'd stood alert and attentive at Seren Nexus for hours and watched numerous nuts drop on the ground cause people gather pixies all day long for power, and then ask "is there a tree needing planting?" So this "it's a burden" is a bit overplayed IMHO, because people are getting nuts regardless and there is zero rush to replant 5, 10, 20 trees.
Can I respectfully request that people stop suggesting that the power gain be removed? It's been suggested. It's been agreed. Please stop trying to kick through a door that isn't locked. Let's move on.
I fail to see how replanting is even an issue. I have afk'd stood alert and attentive at Seren Nexus for hours and watched numerous nuts drop on the ground cause people gather pixies all day long for power, and then ask "is there a tree needing planting?" So this "it's a burden" is a bit overplayed IMHO, because people are getting nuts regardless and there is zero rush to replant 5, 10, 20 trees.
It's historically a huge pain in the ass. Not because you need to rush to grab nuts to plant on the surface of it, but because at any moment the guy who chopped it down in the first place can come back to chop again, so you kinda DID want to do it fast to get as many totems back as soon as possible. This is particularly a thing if getting a nut now versus in 10 minutes means a difference of a RL day of growing time.
Now you just have to chunk out power for several RL days for Ironbark, if you can't have dependable -woods to come around and protect the growing trees. That solution goes right out the window with any more than 3ish plantings at once because of the limits on protecting sacred trees and the limited number of -woods, so you're forced to burn far more power than you gain back by growing the totem or risk more frustrating RP penalties and "conflict".
You can easily not rush to plant and put a few guards at your saplings who will call out if enemy comes in. There is no reason whatsoever to rush to plant elders. The -only- thing elders not bonded do is power generation and the loss of a few for a few days is not an impact that matters in the long run. I have one log (I checked all my logs for the last 11 months and the majority show it happening) of multiple nuts dropping and just being ignored during a day. So it's not like there is a shortage of pixie gathering.
Now if you are saying you dislike planting trees, then fine I can understand that, but there is no real impact to not planting them, or using guards to protect the saplings. Passive generation from the remaining trees more than pays for a few guards.
I completely agree that the chopping side of the mechanic is a PITA and I think that side of it is what should be addressed. I also think the admins are more likely to work from that angle, given the "historic" attitude they have had in the past to outright changing totems.
Its tit for tat I mean theres been 15 glom trees cut down now and 2 seren trees.
Cant be surprised if theres some kick back really.
Guess that no-cutting pact is going to be pretty short-lived then.
Sounds like it if people keep on up. I when the first glom five trees were cut down I only cut down two in responce because it seemed like well 5 to 2 seemed kinda ok to send a little message but if people want to keep the ball rolling then I an easily respond in kind. All it takes is a single person to be able to cut down almost the entire forest when they revert and I can easily take take most of serens trees on my own even if there isn't anyone else doing it with a bounty and such.
A fuzzy spider drops in from above on a silken string.
A fuzzy spider's eyes bug out of its head at you in wonder.
A fuzzy spider says to you, "Did you miss me?"
A fuzzy spider shoots out of the room on a silken string.
You say, "Oh no."
Ejderha raises an eyebrow questioningly.
You say, "Oh no no no."
It begins.
3
EveriineWise Old Swordsbird / BrontaurIndianapolis, IN, USA
I don't understand the mechanics again. Why put guards at a sapling? They won't call out unless they're attacked, right? And why attack them when you can walk in, knock down a tree, and walk about with barely a scratch? Putting guards at a sapling sounds about as useful as putting a sign up that says "Please don't chop the trees".
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Guards attack enemies on sight. If they don't call out without being attacked back, that should be changed IMO. Most of the people I have heard of chopping trees couldn't tank a few guards. There is a few exceptions though.
Guards attack enemies on sight. If they don't call out without being attacked back, that should be changed IMO. Most of the people I have heard of chopping trees couldn't tank a few guards. There is a few exceptions though.
I'm fairly certain they only call out when they're being attacked, and it's always been that way. Someone who knows for certain, jump in?
Everiine is a man, and is very manly. This MAN before you is so manly you might as well just gender bend right now, cause he's the manliest man that you ever did see. His manly shape has spurned many women and girlyer men to boughs of fainting. He stands before you in a manly manerific typical man-like outfit which is covered in his manly motto: "I am a man!"
Daraius said: You gotta risk it for the biscuit.
Pony power all the way, yo. The more Brontaurs the better.
Comments
You're arguing against a scenario nobody wants. Seriously, if you're actually here to find a tenable solution and not just trolling then at least argue from an honest standpoint, because the only person that gives a damn about passive power seems to be you.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
As long as they generate power they're a conflict mechanic.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
For transparency: Totems and Trees: Earned 2,073 power.
But as said, most commune folk are perfectly fine giving up the power generation. But we would need some more power quests if that happened.
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
Really, the greatest tragedy in all of this is that I can't chop the sunpride elders. The communes should ask for Jojobo for some tips.
BUT AGAIN!! Most of us seem to be willing to completely get rid of that benefit and even admit it is over the top even considering how annoying it is constantly having to maintain totems.
You could change the RP to be whenever a new person can bond to a totem, their duty is to raise it from a sapling to a totem, or whatever. The deeper idea being that an untended elder is a deeply irresponsible thing to do, or tragically lonely, or somesuch.
Problem solved, no admin intervention needed.
The amount of power lost by even a large chopping (10-20 trees) is miniscule. @Lerad is right in that in character we utterly can't brush it off though, ESPECIALLY as Serenwilde, whose entire story is tied up in "Protect our land, it's the last good land ANYWHERE IN EXISTANCE". Having it be so easy to get around what protections are feasible smarts, bad. It's not so much the boring chore of upkeeping them, it's the crushing guilt and blame that falls on your head when one inevitably slips by or someone comes in and chops totems right as they revert - even though it really is inevitable, there isn't anything that can be done practically to stop it. Frustration city.
It absolutely is griefing. It's a "Conflict" mechanic that requires little to no effort and no time commitment on the part of the initiator that requires both effort and commitment on the part of the "defender". The initiator gains nothing except seeing the defenders get frustrated, all for zero risk!
Allow people to bond to the sapling protecting it as it grows, and unlocking totem requiring skills. Skill issue solved.
@Estarra @Iosai
== Professional Girl Gamer ==
Yes I play games
Yes I'm a girl
get over it
You need to do an actual raid and set up camp to chop a totem, not just hit and run. Any mechanic that takes 6s to complete should take 6s to undo. It should not take three days to recover from a riskless 6s action. Ditto starting fires/vines. You should not be able to make people spend chunks of power or time because you ducked into their territory when no one was there and sent one command before skipping out, utterly risk free. That's even anonymous, so there can't be any retribution against you or your org.
EDIT: You already can protect saplings from being chopped as they grow. That's not the point at all.
I'm wondering if the option to have a nursery of sorts where we can transplant trees from would be an acceptable option if administration are unwilling to change the system to better parity between the organizations. One or two rooms we could protect, make difficult for enemies to reach (serenwilde has the greenhouse already, glom could have theirs in the alter). Just a thought as a defrost from my day outside.
The eye of Dylara materialises in your hands and flings itself around your neck, tightening incomprehensibly until it is irremovable.
Perfectly clean, this eyeball has been wrenched from the socket of Dylara. It has been animated by some unusual force, constantly looking around itself as if in shock or fear. It is bathed in a light covering of white flames that roll endlessly over its surface. A single chain of empyreal metal pierces either side of the eye, allowing it to be worn around the neck.
He doesn't, it's just making communes comparable to cities, which is what you guys are all wanting by the sounds of it.
The divine voice of Avechna, the Avenger reverberates powerfully, "Congratulations, Morkarion, you are the Bringer of Death indeed."
You see Estarra the Eternal shout, "Morkarion is no more! Mourn the mortal! But welcome True Ascendant Karlach, of the Realm of Death!
Now you just have to chunk out power for several RL days for Ironbark, if you can't have dependable -woods to come around and protect the growing trees. That solution goes right out the window with any more than 3ish plantings at once because of the limits on protecting sacred trees and the limited number of -woods, so you're forced to burn far more power than you gain back by growing the totem or risk more frustrating RP penalties and "conflict".
Now if you are saying you dislike planting trees, then fine I can understand that, but there is no real impact to not planting them, or using guards to protect the saplings. Passive generation from the remaining trees more than pays for a few guards.
I completely agree that the chopping side of the mechanic is a PITA and I think that side of it is what should be addressed. I also think the admins are more likely to work from that angle, given the "historic" attitude they have had in the past to outright changing totems.
Sounds like it if people keep on up. I when the first glom five trees were cut down I only cut down two in responce because it seemed like well 5 to 2 seemed kinda ok to send a little message but if people want to keep the ball rolling then I an easily respond in kind. All it takes is a single person to be able to cut down almost the entire forest when they revert and I can easily take take most of serens trees on my own even if there isn't anyone else doing it with a bounty and such.
A fuzzy spider's eyes bug out of its head at you in wonder.
A fuzzy spider says to you, "Did you miss me?"
A fuzzy spider shoots out of the room on a silken string.
You say, "Oh no."
Ejderha raises an eyebrow questioningly.
You say, "Oh no no no."
It begins.